Author Topic: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people  (Read 10088 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Not only this - but he continues to use the word madoadoa - which has historical connotation that is not very nice.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/17/uhuru-tells-off-raila-over-talk-of-land-invasion_c1581163

Offline Kichwa

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 08:21:39 PM »
First and foremost, that is not what Raila said.  (Bandika vindio Kwanza).  Telling poor Kenyans that land is the only wealth they have and that they should not sell it is not inciting Kenyans unless of course you are a land grabber/thief.  The only way to avoid PEV is not to steal elections.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline patel

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 11:37:38 PM »
Crackhead uhuru too bruised from tough political campaign now latch to the land Question.  It's time for Raila to remind uhuru about the land report he has been  sitting on for years. It's time to address the land injustice in this country especially in mombasa where one family has displaced a whole population and reduced them to squatters on their own ancestral land. It's time to address the IDP question. .what happened to IDP land? Who took the IDP land? NASA should not be cowed on land debate. The people who have stolen other people land are known.

Offline Kichwa

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 01:00:13 AM »
Raila should talk about land some more because there is nothing that gets to Ouru and Ruto more than the issue of land. Its their achiles-heels. This campaign is just getting started.

Crackhead uhuru too bruised from tough political campaign now latch to the land Question.  It's time for Raila to remind uhuru about the land report he has been  sitting on for years. It's time to address the land injustice in this country especially in mombasa where one family has displaced a whole population and reduced them to squatters on their own ancestral land. It's time to address the IDP question. .what happened to IDP land? Who took the IDP land? NASA should not be cowed on land debate. The people who have stolen other people land are known.
"I have done my job and I will not change anything dead or a live" Malonza

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 08:30:42 AM »
He clearly said maasai should not sell land to outsiders. Who is an outsider in kenya? Tanzania maasais?


Offline Kadame5

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2017, 10:33:49 AM »
I am very disappointed. Not because I think Raila was inciting anyone to violence, he was not. He is telling Maas not to sell their land. They are being displaced very fast. Its not bad advice.

But I am disappointed in the monumental stupidity Raila has shown here, talking of invaders and "kwao": he knows Kibaki in 2007 and Uhuruto in 2013 used the boogeyman tactic to scare their people to the voting booths "Raila wants you dead" that is why I was utterly against Kibaki in 2007. And now, with a good shot of depressing votes even in central due to lack of enthusiasm for Jubilee's ridiculously expensive Kenya, he hands them a gift in this statement that they immediately proceed to twist and use in the same fashion as 2007 and 2013.

Uhuru says that Raila said people should "go back" to their homes. Raila said Maa's should not sell land to outsiders. Those two are very different statements but Raila's usual carelessness in speech is what has made it possible for Uhuru to peddle that lie and for others to believe him.

Also, considering all those people who have moved into Kajiado are not all Kyuks anyway and thus not Jubilee voters necessarily, why risk them refusing to support you out of fear of being labled an invader? I can imagine Gusiis in Maa land getting worried over this. This was careless and unnecessary and therefore STUPID! I am angry that silly mistakes like these will cost Raila many votes that are already his.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 10:45:35 AM »
Kadame,
How is Maa's should not sell land to outsiders" OKAY?  What is okay about it ? I thought Raila constitution allows Maasai to sell land to anybody?  Of all the issues facing Maasai -why even talk about that - why not ask Maasai to go to schools, promise them water,roads and livestock etc?

 I am sorry but you're too much of Raila apologist to realize Raila has never really changed and how he got free from ICC is one reason kenyans showed the ICC the middle finger. See what he said in Laikipia about those ranchers?  See how he continues to use the word "Madoadoa" to call for six piece suit like he he lacks better words. The history of we don't want madoadoa is well known. It intentional to evoke hatred of kikuyus. Guy go to Kisumu and say don't kill Gusii because they are not adui - and saying nothing about Kikuyus being killed? Raila is obviously and has obviously been trying to get maasai & coastal vote by inciting them on historical land issues. He used to do the same in Kalenjin land but after he left folks high & dry - nobody buys that anymore.

What he doesn't realize is for the few coastal and maasai votes he yearn - he loses so many more votes and as you say excite GEMA to turn up to stop this existential threat.

NASA had better chance with Kalonzo or MaDVD - not Raila.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 10:58:00 AM »
Video - It even worse than I thought.

Offline Kadame5

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 11:14:19 AM »
Pundit, a few years back I saw a show about the Maa and their land and realized they were very bitter about the land thing, I had no idea. Among them are a significant number of Kisiis who have bought a lot land and have small businesses all over the place with Gusii names. I remember being irritated by the Maa speakers because they saw it not only as individuals owning land but as a sort of cultural displacement. The whole time I was telling the telly "but no one forced you to sell your land!"

Regardless of whether they were right or not, I have come to appreciate that their perception is there nonetheless and I don't see Raila's telling them not to sell to be any different than what I was saying when watching that show!

I have major problems with him calling outsiders invaders. I think that alone is what has made it possible to add a layer of malice to his words. But telling Maa not to sell? Not at all. That is recognizing an existing grievance among the Maa and telling them the only thing to do is to retain their land as well as promising to deal with the poverty that forces them to sell their land in the first place. If you feel your indegnious group is under some kind of cultural threat, I dont see anything wrong with holding on to the land.

I see a big problem with saying discriminate based on tribe, but I dont see a problem wishing to retain the Maa identity of a certain area by encouraging those who are complaining not to sell. To me it is a complicated issue. But Raila speaks without nuance and also, its not a necessary issue to bring up so why talk about it at all? Its just stupid.

Also, Pundit, a lot of the matusi Uhuru hurls around is also hateful and unnecessary.

Raila never incited ethnic attacks in 2007. Madoadoa was ALWAYS in reference to party not tribe. PNU propagandists tried to spin it but it was always telling people not to give PNU parties any seat which is the job of every party to do is to campaign for all seats not just some.

Demonstrations are not the kinds of things ICC deals with. Luos in Nyanza did not carry out ethnic cleansing, instead they were shot by cops while rioting and looting. Ethnic cleansing was a Kalenjin-Kikuyu affair in 2007, that is just a fact. The rest of the unrest was in the general rioting category that did not blatantly target either Kikuyus (and others) or Kalenjin (and others) directly and specifically. It happened among others, yes, but only in tiny amounts. Not widespread like in Rift Valley among Kalenjins and Kikuyus.

ICC would have gone after Raila too I believe if Luos rather than mainly rioting decided to attack and kill Kikuyus instead and then Luo lieutentants of Raila were caught encourging this ethnic attacks on radio and similar media. Its hard to claim disorganized rioting is ethnic cleansing even if the prosecutor is desperate to nail Raila on something. Raila has always "incited" mass action but mass action, even if turns into rioting, is not a crime against humanity.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 11:33:20 AM »
You're an incredible Raila apologist.

1) If land was an issue - why not ask Maasai not to sell land? Why qualify it with outsider? So if Maasai do not want outsiders - a retrogressive idea - do you encourage them for "cultural" reasons. Maasai are not poor. Far from it. They are mostly illiterate. They sell the land cheaply and blow all the money in alcohol & women. Raila is behaving exactly like Ntimama & many maasai leaders - who continuously lie to Maasai that problem is external not internal - their continued attempt to live a stone age lifestyle in 21st century.

2) His speech in that video is not only hate speech but also incitement.

3) The history of word madoadoa is not PNU or 2007. It's 1992 when likes of Biwott used it and it led to 1992 tribal clashes. Why would he use it know. Just read Akiwumu report. Obviously in place like RV that clearly means we don't want outsiders in our midst. Why not use word like we want a six-piece suit?

4) Let not go into 2007 so much. Just know violence that led to Killings started in Luo Nyanza before elections - when Luos pulled Kikuyu alleged APS -and murdered many of them. Raila is as responsible for 2007 PEV  and only Kibaki is more responsible for it.

5) Raila called on Luos not to evict Gusii...coz they were not adui. Who was the adui?

6) We can go on and on...but Raila history of violence starts in 1982 and has not ended...he is clearly desperate and planning to incite violence in the hope of NARA like arrangement.

Kenya Gov should be prepared to deal with Raila strongly. We don't want Kibaki the coward letting Raila incite hate and then we have apologist all over defending him.

If Ruto or Uhuru was to ever utter words that are remotely inciteful and hateful like Raila we would have the entire apologist shouting hoarse for months.



Pundit, a few years back I saw a show about the Maa and their land and realized they were very bitter about the land thing, I had no idea. Among them are a significant number of Kisiis who have bought a lot land and have small businesses all over the place with Gusii names. I remember being irritated by the Maa speakers because they saw it not only as individuals owning land but as a sort of cultural displacement. The whole time I was telling the telly "but no one forced you to sell your land!"

Regardless of whether they were right or not, I have come to appreciate that their perception is there nonetheless and I don't see Raila's telling them not to sell to be any different than what I was saying when watching that show!

I have major problems with him calling outsiders invaders. I think that alone is what has made it possible to add a layer of malice to his words. But telling Maa not to sell? Not at all. That is recognizing an existing grievance among the Maa and telling them the only thing to do is to retain their land as well as promising to deal with the poverty that forces them to sell their land in the first place. If you feel your indegnious group is under some kind of cultural threat, I dont see anything wrong with holding on to the land.

I see a big problem with saying discriminate based on tribe, but I dont see a problem wishing to retain the Maa identity of a certain area by encouraging those who are complaining not to sell. To me it is a complicated issue. But Raila speaks without nuance and also, its not a necessary issue to bring up so why talk about it at all? Its just stupid.

Also, Pundit, a lot of the matusi Uhuru hurls around is also hateful and unnecessary.

Raila never incited ethnic attacks in 2007. Madoadoa was ALWAYS in reference to party not tribe. PNU propagandists tried to spin it but it was always telling people not to give PNU parties any seat which is the job of every party to do is to campaign for all seats not just some.

Demonstrations are not the kinds of things ICC deals with. Luos in Nyanza did not carry out ethnic cleansing, instead they were shot by cops while rioting and looting. Ethnic cleansing was a Kalenjin-Kikuyu affair in 2007, that is just a fact. The rest of the unrest was in the general rioting category that did not blatantly target either Kikuyus (and others) or Kalenjin (and others) directly and specifically. It happened among others, yes, but only in tiny amounts. Not widespread like in Rift Valley among Kalenjins and Kikuyus. ICC would have gone after Raila too I believe if Luos rather than mainly rioting decided to attack and kill Kikuyus instead and then Luo lietentants of Raila were caught encourhagind the same on radio and similar media. Its hard to claim disorganized rioting is ethnic cleansing even if the prosecutor is desperate to nail Raila on something.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 11:36:22 AM »
He clearly said maasai should not sell land to outsiders. Who is an outsider in kenya? Tanzania maasais?
Please post the video of Raila saying that then we proceed. If not, take this to choo.com am sure it is already well received.

The partial video you have posted is heavily edited and the opening portion is clearly messed up. You can download free programs online to see how it was cut and pasted.

I am told Kikuyus say he was inciting the Maa against them, please tell me at what point he mentions "Kikuyu".

Raila is addressing the issue of Jubilee created poverty that is forcing people to sell their land and others to move from their homes to settle in other areas. The biggest reason for this is expenses associated with living and education for the kids.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 11:37:48 AM »
Omollo - the video is posted somewhere in this thread - shouldn't be hard to find it.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2017, 11:40:57 AM »
Maybe this picture would help - now that Raila has incited maasai against outsiders.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 11:41:57 AM »
Omollo - the video is posted somewhere in this thread - shouldn't be hard to find it.
I have seen the portion you posted. I am asking for the whole video without alterations
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2017, 11:45:29 AM »
Why not do us a favour and give us the full video considering you've been covering his rallies. The video we have is clearly showing Raila inciting Maasai against outsiders who should remain in their own place.
I have seen the portion you posted. I am asking for the whole video without alterations

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2017, 11:47:49 AM »
Why are you settled in Mombasa not Luo Nyanza.
Raila is addressing the issue of Jubilee created poverty that is forcing people to sell their land and others to move from their homes to settle in other areas. The biggest reason for this is expenses associated with living and education for the kids.

Offline Omollo

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2017, 11:59:55 AM »
Maybe this picture would help - now that Raila has incited maasai against outsiders.

C'mon! It is a good forgery with somen serious tale-tell mistakes.

1. There is an attempt to make it sound like it was written by a Luo. Which begs the question: Why a Luo and not a Maasai?
2. Kisiis and Kalenjins are part of the NASA constituency, so this is a feeble attempt to win votes in Kisii and Nyamira and you see Kenyans have seen this thing so long, they know when it is real. Tell the NIS to concentrate on Kikuyus in their fake leaflets. They will sound more credible
3. There is no way in a million a Maa would prefix an H before a vowel. That is a Kamba thing. So either the forger is a Kamba or he has limited linguistic knowledge to mimic a Luo or Maasai

Well, the NIS seems to suggest the "Fatwa" was issued in collaboration with the Maasai elders. That brings us to rule number one of Propaganda: Focus on one target at a time and avoid drawing in others who may ruin your narrative.

Clearly done by amateurs. But if that is how you want to play it, some of us are being held back by the ropes tied around us. We have the capacity to do much better than that and on shoestring budget and no trail.
... [the ICC case] will be tried in Europe, where due procedure and expertise prevail.; ... Second-guessing Ocampo and fantasizing ..has obviously become a national pastime.- NattyDread

Offline Kadame5

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2017, 12:02:09 PM »
I will say this and be gone: this is clearly a blunder as is usual with Raila's foot-in-mouth disease. I dont believe Raila intends for the Maa to turn violent. I believe he knows of their complaints about their lands being taken over and is telling them not to sell their land while at the same time acknowledging that poverty forces them to do so. I believe he was careless with his words and has handed a small grenade to his rivals and hope he finds a cure for this disease of his which only affected Kibaki as much as him. Yes it seems retrogressive to try and retain an area's cultural identity but the issue is more nuanced than that. If the sense is that the identity is being diluted out of a forced circumstance rather than simple choice, its not that simple to me. But I dont think this issue belongs on the campaign trail regardless. Raila should find a better way to speak to the issue of poverty and avoid getting ensnared in these perception issues. Hayo tu.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Raila apologist should defend his lame attempt to incite people
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2017, 12:09:53 PM »
The video is forgery. This is forgery. We get it. Now get us the real video.
C'mon! It is a good forgery with somen serious tale-tell mistakes.

1. There is an attempt to make it sound like it was written by a Luo. Which begs the question: Why a Luo and not a Maasai?
2. Kisiis and Kalenjins are part of the NASA constituency, so this is a feeble attempt to win votes in Kisii and Nyamira and you see Kenyans have seen this thing so long, they know when it is real. Tell the NIS to concentrate on Kikuyus in their fake leaflets. They will sound more credible
3. There is no way in a million a Maa would prefix an H before a vowel. That is a Kamba thing. So either the forger is a Kamba or he has limited linguistic knowledge to mimic a Luo or Maasai

Well, the NIS seems to suggest the "Fatwa" was issued in collaboration with the Maasai elders. That brings us to rule number one of Propaganda: Focus on one target at a time and avoid drawing in others who may ruin your narrative.

Clearly done by amateurs. But if that is how you want to play it, some of us are being held back by the ropes tied around us. We have the capacity to do much better than that and on shoestring budget and no trail.