Author Topic: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet  (Read 119261 times)

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« on: September 17, 2014, 06:25:42 PM »
vooke, why is macro evolution wrong in your view?

Answer from two perspectives:

1) why is it incompatible with science?
2) why is it incompatible with the Bible?

Ahsante! :D

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3353
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 06:27:24 PM »
 :d030:

Look, a demon!

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 06:28:04 PM »

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8783
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 06:40:47 PM »
The man's quarrel with evolution boils down to the fact that it does not explain how/where/why life began or got here in the first place. 

He also tries to drive the discussion in the direction of DNA minutiae.  It is akin to arguing that flatulence does not happen because the proposed mechanisms are not clear.

Telling him that origin of species is published ten years before DNA is discovered, or that DNA is not the best evidence for evolution, usually falls on deaf ears.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3353
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 06:46:44 PM »
Evolution is downright rejected in medicine. They call evolution psychobabble BS. Sorry BS...

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 06:47:37 PM »
Evolution is downright rejected in medicine. They call evolution psychobabble BS. Sorry BS...
Really? Why?

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3353
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 07:09:29 PM »
Genetic research dominates medicine and evolution isn't genetically possible at the cellular level. They never mention evolution in medicine. The other is social stigma. Psychatrists hate psychologists and they generally don't subscribe to evolution and psycho theories. Medicate! Medicate!

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 07:14:45 PM »
The man's quarrel with evolution boils down to the fact that it does not explain how/where/why life began or got here in the first place. 

He also tries to drive the discussion in the direction of DNA minutiae.  It is akin to arguing that flatulence does not happen because the proposed mechanisms are not clear.

Telling him that origin of species is published ten years before DNA is discovered, or that DNA is not the best evidence for evolution, usually falls on deaf ears.
What's the evidence for macroevolution? Personally, I have never found biology to be remotely interesting. I love cosmology, but evolution bleh! My interest has always been whether it is incompatible with my religious beliefs, and since it isn't (disregarding the chance factor), I go with the scientific consensus, which seems to be for it, not against it. But if you could give me a neat (simple) summary, that'd be great.

Veri, what has evolution got to do with psychology? :D I love psychology, I regret the day I did not sign up for it. It has helped me a great deal. Some of it is whacko but there's a good deal of it that is helpful. There's a geneticist on another forum I follow and he is all for evolution. I wish I understood it better than I do.

Offline veritas

  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3353
  • Reputation: 4790
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 07:32:08 PM »
I hate psychology.

It pollutes medical research. I'm doing a systematic review for cancer right now, at the part of assessing risks and biases, and the way psychologists conduct research is downright yuk. Exclude from the get go. All over the shonkers. Make shat up. No structure. Riddled with biases. They may as well write fiction. They really need to be more educated about conducting empirical research.

From my observation, psychologists are a hell of a lot more intelligent than psychiatrists though. I told that to a psychiatrist tutor who was deriding psychologists and omg he lashed out at me waiting for me to lash back. Me being thick skinned to his surprise, calmly quipped he was being inappropriate. He got in trouble. I think they sacked him. That geneticist who supports evolution is probably a scientist and not a health professional. Health professionals don't support evolution. Debating a medical person is like debating a brick wall. They can't justify those reasons other than the fact ACTACATA etc. peptide fatty tissue et al can't be explained by evolution. You don't want to question it. It'll become an ego fight.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 8783
  • Reputation: 106254
  • An oryctolagus cuniculus is feeding on my couch
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 08:06:06 PM »
The man's quarrel with evolution boils down to the fact that it does not explain how/where/why life began or got here in the first place. 

He also tries to drive the discussion in the direction of DNA minutiae.  It is akin to arguing that flatulence does not happen because the proposed mechanisms are not clear.

Telling him that origin of species is published ten years before DNA is discovered, or that DNA is not the best evidence for evolution, usually falls on deaf ears.
What's the evidence for macroevolution? Personally, I have never found biology to be remotely interesting. I love cosmology, but evolution bleh! My interest has always been whether it is incompatible with my religious beliefs, and since it isn't (disregarding the chance factor), I go with the scientific consensus, which seems to be for it, not against it. But if you could give me a neat (simple) summary, that'd be great.

Veri, what has evolution got to do with psychology? :D I love psychology, I regret the day I did not sign up for it. It has helped me a great deal. Some of it is whacko but there's a good deal of it that is helpful. There's a geneticist on another forum I follow and he is all for evolution. I wish I understood it better than I do.
The evidence for evolution is not in a nice neat bundle.  It is similar to the evidence you find at a disturbed scene of a murder.  Robert Ouko, Geroge Saitoti, Mercy Keino etc.  No smoking gun or DNA gathered at the scene.  Yet, there is little doubt they were murdered.

What constitutes the evidence is inferred from the convergence of diverse disciplines.  For me it boils down to adaptation, shared features, fossil record, geologic history etc.

Adaptation.  Fish and seaweed live in water.  Lions on land.  Polar bears in the North Pole.  Camels and cactus in the hot deserts. etc etc

So what?

If you ask any geologist, climatologist, etc.  The earth has always been changing.  Oxygen levels, temperatures, sea-levels, climate, land masses etc.

The fossil record.  Fossils that correspond to earlier geologic periods are different than those from different periods.

Different creatures were living in different geologic times and niches.  They are present in some and absent in others.

Shared features.  If you look at apes.  It is obvious they look like us or other primates.  Cows resemble other bovines.  Pigs look like warthogs. Some of these species can even cross-breed. 

Extinctions
.  The lineage that can thrive, continues.  The poorly adapted, sickly etc perish - more like waning off.  When you look at the fossil record for different geological periods, some of the dominant species today, do not appear before a certain time.  There are no lion bones from the cretaceous.

The creatures existing today, have replaced or thrived from the absence of extinct hitherto(copyright, kunadawa) strong creatures.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 08:09:47 PM »
Sunshine,
What the hell is macro/mini/micro-evilution?
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline bittertruth

  • Moderator
  • Superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 242
  • Reputation: 443
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2014, 08:16:30 PM »
Sunshinen
Evolution and Creation are incompatible because.
1. Evolution was invented by atheist (Darwin dumped christianity to promot the heresy.
2. Creation is  supernatural. SupernaturAl cannot be tested with physical scientific theories.

Now do you believe that life evolved without the intervention of supernatural power?
The bible says that a fool says in his heart there is no God.
Prov 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2014, 08:24:14 PM »
Sunshine,
What the hell is macro/mini/micro-evilution?
I hope y'all realize its kababe.

Macroevolution, evolution across species, micro, evolution within species. So macro says a species can evolve from another species.


Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2014, 08:25:51 PM »
Sunshinen
Evolution and Creation are incompatible because.
1. Evolution was invented by atheist (Darwin dumped christianity to promot the heresy.
2. Creation is  supernatural. SupernaturAl cannot be tested with physical scientific theories.

Now do you believe that life evolved without the intervention of supernatural power?
The bible says that a fool says in his heart there is no God.
Bittertruth, no. I don't believe life evolved without the intervention of supernatural power. Does evolution really require I believe that?

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2014, 08:34:40 PM »
I think I get what you are saying.
Question.
Do you believe Adam was the FIRST man God created?
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2014, 08:41:02 PM »
I think I get what you are saying.
Question.
Do you believe Adam was the FIRST man God created?
I'm actually not saying anything, I'm interested in why you think its incompatible with the Bible and science. That is, what evidence is against it (science) and why it is irreconcilable with the Bible in your view.

As to your question, I believe Adam was the first man, but like I said, i'm genuinely interested in your view. 

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2014, 08:43:00 PM »
Am answering you and you are quarter way there....

Hmm.....Adam was the first man.
Any idea when the first man was created?
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2014, 08:45:42 PM »
Am answering you and you are quarter way there....

Hmm.....Adam was the first man.
Any idea when the first man was created?
Nope! No idea.

Offline vooke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 5985
  • Reputation: 8906
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2014, 08:52:05 PM »
Matthew and Luke have genealogies one starting with Jesus and ending with Adam while the other starts with Adam and stops with Jesus.

A few facts;
1. There are FINITE generations/ancestors between Jesus and Adam
2. We know when Jesus was born

With these two facts, is it possible to estimate when Adam was created?
Am answering you and you are quarter way there....

Hmm.....Adam was the first man.
Any idea when the first man was created?
Nope! No idea.
2 Timothy 2:4  No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Offline Kababe

  • Moderator
  • Mega superstar
  • *
  • Posts: 284
  • Reputation: 5
Re: An evilusion debate, the board is too quiet
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2014, 08:57:25 PM »
OK, so lets say Adam was here 6,000 years ago, according to the math you're about to perform.

What about macroevolution contradicts this?

What scientific evidence is against macroevolution, that is, are you using only the Bible (your interpretation) to refute it?