Joho is about to discover that Uhuru can be very vindictive if scorned.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

In any case, it's time to do away with the degree(education) requirement for public office.  It's nonsensical.

[RV Pundit]

Totally agree. It is unconstitutional only that some morons made it constitutional. it total BS. Maybe folks wanted to prevent another Moi. But I am believer that anyone..a felon, an indicted criminal or etc should be allowed to seek for votes..if people want Judas or barbaras ...and not Jesus the saviour...people get it. 2,000 yrs ago..the romans knew that.

In any case, it's time to do away with the degree(education) requirement for public office.  It's nonsensical.

[Globalcitizen12]

Nandi warrior were beaten by German mecernaries and koitael burried like a dog. Ruto people killed Jacob juma. So tell us another thing about ruto hard work. Ruto is a thief. If he was honest and hardworking he would be the most trusted guy in Kenya. He is also an intolerant insecure man

[MOON Ki]

In any case, it's time to do away with the degree(education) requirement for public office.  It's nonsensical.

Definitely a bizarre requirement.

[Omollo]

The fact that it may be written in the constitution does not in any way make it infallible. It can be struck down by any competent court.

In any case, it's time to do away with the degree(education) requirement for public office.  It's nonsensical.

General Admissions Criteria - University of Nairobi


Degree Courses
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O Level Division II or equivalent plus a Diploma
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O Level Division III or equivalent plus a three-year Diploma from a recognized post secondary Institution for admissions to Bachelor of Education
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Degree from a recognized University
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O Level Division III or equivalent plus a three-year Diploma from a recognized post secondary Institution for admissions to Bachelor of Education
Diploma from University of Nairobi or other recognized institutions and an aggregate of C in KCSE or equivalent
A Level with two principal passes or equivalent in relevant subjects Only Applicants whose results are available at the time of application will be considered
CPAII/CPSII/CIPS or equivalent for Commerce and Arts and should have attained an aggregate of C in KCSE or O level Division III
P1 from a two-year post secondary training institution for entry into Bachelor of Education with Minimum KCSE Mean Grade C or O Level Division III
Higher National Diploma in relevant fields and should have attained an aggregate of C in KCSE
Degree from a recognized University
Equivalent qualifications to the above from institutions recognised by Senate

[Omollo]

Pundit, what is Uhuru Kenyatta's end game in this? What does he hope to gain? How will this help Jubilee?

[MOON Ki]

The fact that it may be written in the constitution does not in any way make it infallible. It can be struck down by any competent court.

A court strike out something that is in the constitution?    Not really.

Still, this degree requirement is not in the constitution. It is in the Elections Act, and I think it should be possible to argue that it is unconstitutional on the basis that it interferes with what is a fundamental right in the constitution: Article 38. 

[Omollo]

If such a provision were there and it clearly curtailed,  limited or removed a right or rights conferred on a person, it would in effect amount to an obnoxious contradiction which would be struck out. There are many examples the world over.

The election laws are in my opinion largely unconstitutional in that they limit or curtail the rights of a citizen. For example provisions on education, Requirement to pre-register to vote and be voted for, Presidential Term Limit, Identification Card, etc

While modern democracies are celebrating the removal of property ownership as a precondition for being voted for, Kenya is doing the opposite:

(f) is an undischarged bankrupt;

The fact that it may be written in the constitution does not in any way make it infallible. It can be struck down by any competent court.

A court strike out something that is in the constitution?    I doubt it.

Still, this degree requirement is not in the constitution, which only specifies that there may be some educational requirements.   It is in the Elections Act, and I think it should be possible to argue that it is unconstitutional on the basis that it interferes with what is a fundamental right in the constitution: Article 38. 

[Empedocles]

Pundit, what is Uhuru Kenyatta's end game in this? What does he hope to gain? How will this help Jubilee?

Distraction.

The IEBC is still quietly single sourcing the BVR kits while NASA's attention is fully on the Joho-bone thrown at them to gnaw at.

[MOON Ki]

If such a provision were there and it clearly curtailed,  limited or removed a right or rights conferred on a person, it would in effect amount to an obnoxious contradiction which would be struck out. There are many examples the world over.

The election laws are in my opinion largely unconstitutional in that they limit or curtail the rights of a citizen. For example provisions on education, Requirement to pre-register to vote and be voted for, Presidential Term Limit, Identification Card, etc

While modern democracies are celebrating the removal of property ownership as a precondition for being voted for, Kenya is doing the opposite:

(f) is an undischarged bankrupt;

You lost me somewhere ... probably because you are not making a distinction between the Elections Act and the Constitution.      Some of what you have above (including that bit of the law) are in the constitution, and I don't know what it means to say that a part of the constitution is unconstitutional.   

In any case, the problem with the degree provision is not merely that it interferes with certain rights; it is that it is unreasonable.    The constitution of Kenya, like many others, recognizes that there might be times and circumstances during and under which certain rights may be interfered with, and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with that.   Article 24 of the Kenyan constitution devotes a fair amount of ink to that.

On that one  I can't even imagine where you are headed.
 
To my mind, the Constitution of Kenya is a pretty good piece of work, and off the top of my head, I can't think of any problematic aspects.  As I see it, the real problems are in the laws that the MPs knock off.

[Omollo]

Ndugu MoonKi

Where did you lose me?

I answered you about certain provisions being struck down. I had in principal agreed with your earlier postulation that some of the provisions in the Elections Act were undemocratic.

I made a second point but upon reading I should have known who I was addressing and gone about it with utmost care. Let me try again: The entire Elections Act IMHO is founded on undemocratic principals. Some of the provisions curtail specific rights already granted by the constitution. I went ahead to agree with you on the Education Requirements and added a few. I then quoted the section of the offending law that I found most irritating.

The number of degree holders in a population of 48 Million human beings tells you that the Presidency and other elective posts are limited to a tiny minority. If you look at the number of stand 8 leavers who fail to reach form four again you realize just how we should stop telling those humans that they have EQUAL opportunity.

Sovereignty we are told lies with the people of Kenya. Yet they are prevented from electing whoever they so wish to elect. A group of professional thieves, murderers and deal makers tell them that unless they excel in Modern Ritualism they have no chance.

You lost me somewhere ... probably because you are not making a distinction between the Elections Act and the Constitution.      Some of what you have above (including that bit of the law) are in the constitution, and I don't know what it means to say that a part of the constitution is unconstitutional.   

In any case, the problem with the degree provision is not merely that it interferes with certain rights; it is that it is unreasonable.    The constitution of Kenya, like many others, recognizes that there might be times and circumstances during and under which certain rights may be interfered with, and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with that.   Article 24 of the Kenyan constitution devotes a fair amount of ink to that.

[Georgesoros]

Ruto's only goal is to gain as much power as he can - materially, patronizing others, and in any other form. He wants to beat Biwott at his game.

Nandi warrior were beaten by German mecernaries and koitael burried like a dog. Ruto people killed Jacob juma. So tell us another thing about ruto hard work. Ruto is a thief. If he was honest and hardworking he would be the most trusted guy in Kenya. He is also an intolerant insecure man

[Omollo]

The deal with the French company sanctioned by Chibukati is to write certain code in the software to allow Uhuru to win. They will also allow access to the voting result system so it can be remotely manipulated and if possible crashed. I am told they also want portions of the BVR such as fingerprints or entire BVR disabled to allow double voting.

Is there anything else that NASA does not know?

They blackmailed the Chair and CEO to make those decisions. Just like the NIS has been blackmailing Kalonzo threatening Joho-like charges.

Jubilee has panicked badly. It is just my hope they don't resort to killing more people than the ones they have targeted in Western, Coast and of course Kisii. That is the biggest danger to the cohesion of the country.

Pundit, what is Uhuru Kenyatta's end game in this? What does he hope to gain? How will this help Jubilee?

Distraction.

The IEBC is still quietly single sourcing the BVR kits while NASA's attention is fully on the Joho-bone thrown at them to gnaw at.

[Georgesoros]

Some of the greatest thikners were not that educated. Serving others was their goal. Lincoln, FDR etc.

In any case, it's time to do away with the degree(education) requirement for public office.  It's nonsensical.

[MOON Ki]

Ndugu MoonKi

Where did you lose me?

I answered you about certain provisions being struck down. I had in principal agreed with your earlier postulation that some of the provisions in the Elections Act were undemocratic.

You lost me on the notion that certain rights are completely untouchable.   I am also actually unclear on what it means to strike down a part of the constitution.

I made a second point but upon reading I should have known who I was addressing and gone about it with utmost care. Let me try again: The entire Elections Act IMHO is founded on undemocratic principals. Some of the provisions curtail specific rights already granted by the constitution. I went ahead to agree with you on the Education Requirements and added a few. I then quoted the section of the offending law that I found most irritating.

What you quoted was this:

But that is in the Constitution, so I was unclear as to whether your "issues" are with the Constitution or with the Elections Act.   

The number of degree holders in a population of 48 Million human beings tells you that the Presidency and other elective posts are limited to a tiny minority. If you look at the number of stand 8 leavers who fail to reach form four again you realize just how we should stop telling those humans that they have EQUAL opportunity.

Obviously, I agree that the degree requirement is absurd.   And, yes, the Elections Act (a creature of MPs) does have parts that are problematic with respect to the Constitution.

Sovereignty we are told lies with the people of Kenya. Yet they are prevented from electing whoever they so wish to elect. A group of professional thieves, murderers and deal makers tell them that unless they excel in Modern Ritualism they have no chance.

I really don't know what exactly the "sovereignty of the people" means, but most places will have some requirements for who can stand for office.     In Kenya, because of our history, we thought it useful to have "Chapter 6".   True, we have ignored it---whence the influential "thieves" and "murderers" that you complain of---but that's quite a different matter, and I can't think of many who are unhappy with Chapter 6 on the grounds that the sovereign people should be entitled  to elect  thieves, murderers, etc.     

[Globalcitizen12]

MoonKi,
Omollo is spinning quickly than his brain can process. So unconstitutional Constitution becomes a thing in his alternative facts and reality . Only Referendum or Legislative body that can amend this Katiba. He reminds me of Kibaki games against constitution. he could not understand the document he hoisted at Uhuru park. He wanted to appoint CJ and many others without following the Katiba.. Baba had his 2 minutes of fame with Okoa Baba referanda

[Omollo]

You lost me on the notion that certain rights are completely untouchable.   I am also actually unclear on what it means to strike down a part of the constitution.

Is that when I wrote and you quoted this:

The fact that it may be written in the constitution does not in any way make it infallible. It can be struck down by any competent court.

Somehow I thought I was saying the opposite.

What you quoted was this:

But that is in the Constitution, so I was unclear as to whether your "issues" are with the Constitution or with the Elections Act.

Would you like to share with me which part of the constitution this is? I quoted The Elections Act, 2011.

Obviously, I agree that the degree requirement is absurd.   And, yes, the Elections Act (a creature of MPs) does have parts that are problematic with respect to the Constitution.

I would wish to know what is NOT problematic in that act. The constitution states:

...  (d) universal suffrage based on the aspiration for fair representation and equality of vote; and
(e) free and fair elections ...

How equal is the voter without a degree to the one with such in the election of President and Governor etc?

I really don't know what exactly the "sovereignty of the people" means, but most places will have some requirements for who can stand for office.     In Kenya, because of our history, we thought it useful to have "Chapter 6".   True, we have ignored it---whence the influential "thieves" and "murderers" that you complain of---but that's quite a different matter, and I can't think of many who are unhappy with Chapter 6 on the grounds that the sovereign people should be entitled  to elect  thieves, murderers, etc.

It is up to the people to decide if they accept those murderers and thieves. You can only get as good people as they are in Kenya. How can you expect to find a God Fearing Man on Pirate Island? If Uhuru had sought election in a decent country whose people have learned to value whatever you prescribe in Chapter 6, he would never be elected. Of course I am aware that the threshold recently lost height in the US in recent months.

It is a balance. If you seek democracy then it is impossible to then prescribe, discriminate and choose. A people seeking sovereignty must guard it to avoid losing it. It is the unwillingness of Kenyans to embrace who they are that leads to these cosmetic qualifications in the constitution and laws that seek to dilute the already mild provisions in the constitution. This only delays the inevitable denouement that is essential for Kenyans to wake up.

[MOON Ki]

But that is in the Constitution, so I was unclear as to whether your "issues" are with the Constitution or with the Elections Act.

Would you like to share with me which part of the constitution this is? I quoted The Elections Act, 2011.

Yes, I would.   It is Article 99(2) of the Constitution.

It is a balance. If you seek democracy then it is impossible to then prescribe, discriminate and choose.

I don't know what you mean by "impossible".   That it is very possible is evident from the fact that it is what happens all the time, all over the place.    If you care to list democratic countries that do not have any requirements for candidates for legislative office, that might help to clarify your stance.

[Omollo]

Yes, I would.   It is Article 99(2) of the Constitution.

In that case Article 99(2) and the relevant sections of  the Elections Act, 2011 seriously curtail and limit the rights conferred by the constitution. It is my position that such provisions are NOT infallible and can and should be challenged and removed. For starters they make votes to be unequal. They take away the rights of some people to fully enjoy all the rights a vote is supposed to confer, such as being eligible to be elected president

I don't know what you mean by "impossible".   That it is very possible is evident from the fact that it is what happens all the time, all over the place.    If you care to list democratic countries that do not have any requirements for candidates for legislative office, that might help to clarify your stance.

• (a) is registered as a voter;

If you seriously examine the whole idea of registration you will find that it is insincere and the reasons cited false. Kenya is the one country where citizens are over-registered. That a separate registration should be required for participation in elections is simply crazy. Kenyans are registered at Birth in the Register of Births (and Deaths); At 18, they have to go to the government to be registered again and issued with an ID card. To get registered for that ID, they need to separately go to the Registrar of Births (and deaths) to obtain proof that they were born in Kenya and they are still alive. Those who travel will again seek all those documents to obtain a passport. Those who may have become "criminals" have their details entered in several databases including a Fingerprints database of Criminals. The Prison service has one such. The NIS, CID etc have their own known but unofficial databases.

So why should anybody register to vote?

• (b) satisfies any educational, moral and ethical requirements prescribed by this Constitution or by an Act of Parliament; and

I have discussed the education requirement already and will not compound it. However the moral and ethical requirements remain an issue. Do we have an Ethics Code? Who determines what or who is moral? I really want to have Chapter six in the constitution. But we do not yet have a parliament that can draw up a moral code and set up a foolproof implementation structure. With two suspected war criminals running the country assisted by drug barons, robbers who carry money in bags, I see no reason why we should even bother with this.

Should I laugh or cry? Do you support this one MoonKi?
[/list]

[MOON Ki]

Yes, I would.   It is Article 99(2) of the Constitution.

In that case Article 99(2) and the relevant sections of  the Elections Act, 2011 seriously curtail and limit the rights conferred by the constitution. It is my position that such provisions are NOT infallible and can and should be challenged and removed.

There is a path, laid down in law, for changing any part of the Constitution; so we can leave that one there.   

I don't know what you mean by "impossible".   That it is very possible is evident from the fact that it is what happens all the time, all over the place.    If you care to list democratic countries that do not have any requirements for candidates for legislative office, that might help to clarify your stance.

3. I cannot list countries without qualifications for legislative office. There is probably none.

In that case, that one too can be left there.

You write  that:

I really want to have Chapter six in the constitution.

That is after, in your battle for "democracy", you insisted that:

It is up to the people to decide if they accept those murderers and thieves.

Another one that we may leave just there.

Should I laugh or cry? Do you support this one MoonKi?

I have no views on that one, other than to say that some mechanism is required to stop frivolous candidates.    There are all sort of "ballot access" rules all over the place, and some are very similar to the ones that have left you torn between tears and laughter.    As an example, take a look at those in Colorado.[/list]