David Ndii Brings it Down on Tribal Suprimacists

[MOON Ki]

This exchange is such a waste of time. *

And you went past the  "*" because?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Moon Ki.  This exchange is such a waste of time.  I am tempted to ask why you are being so emotional about this but I do not want to sound condescending.

Here is my exchange with windy and RVP which I was reffering to.  It appeared to me that they were blaming CORD:

Why is Jubilee the party soooo concerned about Nationwide network failures. There can be a technical solution that targets those few areas without network or when there is network failures in specific areas.  How often do we have country wide network failures anyway.  We only have them for sure during elections when ourutu are candidates.  Rarely do we have problems with M-Pesa countrywide  and yet we so sure that there will be  "nationwide network failures" during the 2017 elections.  Ouru steals the elections early in the day and that is why he needs this provision for manual voting in place so that he his "technicians" can bring the system down and stuff ballot boxes with fake voters already registered.  The 2 million voters who only vote for president can only "vote" manually during a man made nationwide network failure and that is why Jubilee is taking this extraordinary steps to make sure this legislation is passed.  If this was a genuine concern they would have easily debated the matter and found a negotiated solution with CORD.

Doesn't look good. It seem cord just want to stone-wall any progress towards free and fair election. If there are places without network - how will you electronically transmit or if there is network failure - what happens.

But that is what I am saying Kichwa.  It only becomes possible if CORD is in the house negotiating and not protesting in the streets or courts.  They can even insist that if systems go down, we permit a certain delay to give them time to come back online.  As it is, Jubilee has their way because they encountered no resistance where it mattered.

I was blaming them for not partaking in the discussions.  Not for refusing to ensure that elections are not stolen.  My point was that taking to the streets even while refusing to participate in the debate that the jubilant had initiated actually weakens their argument.  They would have lost; but at that point, the argument for mass action is stronger as they would have exhausted all other avenues.

[Kichwa]

Because you were strongly insinuating that a  conversation between Windy and I on the same topic never took place and that I was lying.  Have a good day my brother.

This exchange is such a waste of time. *

And you went past the  "*" because?

[Kichwa]

Windy, at that point the matter was still in the parliament and Jubilee did not want to hold a dialogue but to pass the law.  I thought it was very unfair of you to blame CORD for not talking while Jubilee did not want to talk but had made a unilaterally decision to repeal a negotiated legislation without consulting CORD.  How do you talk to people who do not want compromise. However, when the matter was sent to the senate and the senate members off Jubilee called for a dialogue, CORD was ready to talk and even cancelled the proposed mass action as a sign of good faith. 

Moon Ki.  This exchange is such a waste of time.  I am tempted to ask why you are being so emotional about this but I do not want to sound condescending.

Here is my exchange with windy and RVP which I was reffering to.  It appeared to me that they were blaming CORD:

Why is Jubilee the party soooo concerned about Nationwide network failures. There can be a technical solution that targets those few areas without network or when there is network failures in specific areas.  How often do we have country wide network failures anyway.  We only have them for sure during elections when ourutu are candidates.  Rarely do we have problems with M-Pesa countrywide  and yet we so sure that there will be  "nationwide network failures" during the 2017 elections.  Ouru steals the elections early in the day and that is why he needs this provision for manual voting in place so that he his "technicians" can bring the system down and stuff ballot boxes with fake voters already registered.  The 2 million voters who only vote for president can only "vote" manually during a man made nationwide network failure and that is why Jubilee is taking this extraordinary steps to make sure this legislation is passed.  If this was a genuine concern they would have easily debated the matter and found a negotiated solution with CORD.

Doesn't look good. It seem cord just want to stone-wall any progress towards free and fair election. If there are places without network - how will you electronically transmit or if there is network failure - what happens.

But that is what I am saying Kichwa.  It only becomes possible if CORD is in the house negotiating and not protesting in the streets or courts.  They can even insist that if systems go down, we permit a certain delay to give them time to come back online.  As it is, Jubilee has their way because they encountered no resistance where it mattered.

I was blaming them for not partaking in the discussions.  Not for refusing to ensure that elections are not stolen.  My point was that taking to the streets even while refusing to participate in the debate that the jubilant had initiated actually weakens their argument.  They would have lost; but at that point, the argument for mass action is stronger as they would have exhausted all other avenues.

[Globalcitizen12]

on tribalism it should start with you and I.. Like MJ sang look at the man in the mirror and change that man first. I believe changing prejudice is one family at a time or child at a time. Let no amount of bitterness allow you condemn the ignorant masses who for one reason or the other have decided to stop thinking rational on issues. After reading that book about Rwanda by that woman who survived genocide I realized how easy it is to get caught up in national madness and do harm against other human beings. Dr Ndii is letting his conscience dictate how lives his life. He has decided to take this path as an individual he can only point it out to others but he has less influence over them.

[Omollo]

Termie

Could you point at a person wielding power in Kenya from any other tribe who has proceeded to hire his own tribesmen to a public institution until the place is completely tribalized?

Yes you are partially right. I have through personal experience come to understand and loathe Kikuyu Bigotry. The mistake you make is to suggest my position is based on some casual experience or one time encounter with some bigots. Nothing could be further from the truth. In brief I have studied it. I have deeply examined it. Hence nothing Ndii says has not previously been mentioned by me.... even the comparison to Nazism / "semitism" or wanting to be Victim and Perpetrator in one.

The problem with your argument is that you divide the tribe in to *classes* and proceed to attempt to exonerate one or more groups and limit the sins mentioned by Ndii to one which happens to be the smallest of all.

Oathing takes place in Central every election cycle. Mass oathing. Because they have captured the State, the organs of the state that should prevent, stop or punish these illegalities are emasculated.

It is now an accepted fact that a large majority of ordinary Germans elected Hitler to power. He expressed their views.  Similarly the bigoted views being expressed by the likes of Kabogo and Kuria emanate from the Kikuyu people. Those beliefs have since become internalized. Those who speak loudly beyond the usual whispers know the prejudice exists and they want to use to get ahead to parliament etc.

I do not deny that other tribes have had people preaching mildly similar gospels. The question is: Why has it not caught on like it has among the Kikuyu? Can a seed germinate where there is no soil? Even if it does, could it grow without water? Can it get strong and healthy without fertilizer and insecticide and weeding? Above all most seeds have to be planted!

Termie kindly name the opposite number of Raphael Tuju in Central? We are talking about a region whose people are high on hate and bigotry. A region so well indoctrinated that one can be tempted to call them zombies. I simply do not believe that level of collective automation can solely be blamed on a small group. I no longer believe so.

You asked me for solutions. It is unlikely to see power peacefully change from Uhuru to anybody else through the 2017 elections. It is a foregone conclusion that Uhuru Kenyatta will steal the elections. It is also a fact that come 2022 if he is still in power, he will short change Ruto and keep the Captured state hostage.

I can foresee two or more scenarios:

1. A civil war to last until all ideas of Tribal Hegemony and Supremacy are dead
2. Implosion of the Kikuyu Colonial Machinery

Omollo,

I am not trying to please anyone.  I understand what David Ndii is saying.  I am actually expanding on what he is saying.  Yes Kikuyu tribalism sucks.  That goes without saying.  It is also part of a more widespread behavior in Kenya.  One could argue that the Kikuyu, or at least their elite, bear a greater responsibility in its perpetuation on account of having been in power long enough to have done something about it.  Obviously it's not in their interests to create a country where the focus can shift from tribe to actual performance in office.  Why should they?  Your reactions make me believe you have fallen for the trap hook line and sinker.  Try and separate the issue from your personal experiences with one or two lowlifes.  It might help to look at Kikuyu as fairly normal human beings.

What am I saying?  That when it comes to the masses of the Kikuyu, they behave no different than the Luo, Kalenjin, Bukusu etc masses.  They will have their prejudices and epithets against the other in equal measure.  They feel special and can flex their small muscles behind a tribal kingpin.  These prejudices and hatreds are needed and reinforced by the elites(Liluyu, Luo, etc) to keep the masses entranced because they have nothing else to sell them.  If Kiuks are reminded that Jadhes are the enemy, they are less likely to pay attention to the fact that they are all being equally shafted and will wake up at 4 am on election day to vote for their tormentors to protect them against the enemy  But all this is common knowledge.  What you want is to show that somehow Kikuyu prejudice is worse because it's...well Kikuyu,

Something else David Ndii is not saying.  How are we supposed to end tribalism?  You also don't seem to have any suggestions on how the problem can be overcome.

[Omollo]

Will you then join me in condemning Uhuru Kenyatta for institutionalizing Tribalism? Would you also join me in demanding that Uhuru Kenyatta and resign as Head of state to facilitate a truly national unity government?

I also hope you will support measures to De-bigotize the people of Central Province and free them from the effects of Mass oathing started by Jomo Kenyatta.

on tribalism it should start with you and I.. Like MJ sang look at the man in the mirror and change that man first. I believe changing prejudice is one family at a time or child at a time. Let no amount of bitterness allow you condemn the ignorant masses who for one reason or the other have decided to stop thinking rational on issues. After reading that book about Rwanda by that woman who survived genocide I realized how easy it is to get caught up in national madness and do harm against other human beings. Dr Ndii is letting his conscience dictate how lives his life. He has decided to take this path as an individual he can only point it out to others but he has less influence over them.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie

Could you point at a person wielding power in Kenya from any other tribe who has proceeded to hire his own tribesmen to a public institution until the place is completely tribalized?

Yes you are partially right. I have through personal experience come to understand and loathe Kikuyu Bigotry. The mistake you make is to suggest my position is based on some casual experience or one time encounter with some bigots. Nothing could be further from the truth. In brief I have studied it. I have deeply examined it. Hence nothing Ndii says has not previously been mentioned by me.... even the comparison to Nazism / "semitism" or wanting to be Victim and Perpetrator in one.

The problem with your argument is that you divide the tribe in to *classes* and proceed to attempt to exonerate one or more groups and limit the sins mentioned by Ndii to one which happens to be the smallest of all.

Oathing takes place in Central every election cycle. Mass oathing. Because they have captured the State, the organs of the state that should prevent, stop or punish these illegalities are emasculated.

It is now an accepted fact that a large majority of ordinary Germans elected Hitler to power. He expressed their views.  Similarly the bigoted views being expressed by the likes of Kabogo and Kuria emanate from the Kikuyu people. Those beliefs have since become internalized. Those who speak loudly beyond the usual whispers know the prejudice exists and they want to use to get ahead to parliament etc.

I do not deny that other tribes have had people preaching mildly similar gospels. The question is: Why has it not caught on like it has among the Kikuyu? Can a seed germinate where there is no soil? Even if it does, could it grow without water? Can it get strong and healthy without fertilizer and insecticide and weeding? Above all most seeds have to be planted!

Termie kindly name the opposite number of Raphael Tuju in Central? We are talking about a region whose people are high on hate and bigotry. A region so well indoctrinated that one can be tempted to call them zombies. I simply do not believe that level of collective automation can solely be blamed on a small group. I no longer believe so.

You asked me for solutions. It is unlikely to see power peacefully change from Uhuru to anybody else through the 2017 elections. It is a foregone conclusion that Uhuru Kenyatta will steal the elections. It is also a fact that come 2022 if he is still in power, he will short change Ruto and keep the Captured state hostage.

I can foresee two or more scenarios:

1. A civil war to last until all ideas of Tribal Hegemony and Supremacy are dead
2. Implosion of the Kikuyu Colonial Machinery

Omollo,

I am not trying to please anyone.  I understand what David Ndii is saying.  I am actually expanding on what he is saying.  Yes Kikuyu tribalism sucks.  That goes without saying.  It is also part of a more widespread behavior in Kenya.  One could argue that the Kikuyu, or at least their elite, bear a greater responsibility in its perpetuation on account of having been in power long enough to have done something about it.  Obviously it's not in their interests to create a country where the focus can shift from tribe to actual performance in office.  Why should they?  Your reactions make me believe you have fallen for the trap hook line and sinker.  Try and separate the issue from your personal experiences with one or two lowlifes.  It might help to look at Kikuyu as fairly normal human beings.

What am I saying?  That when it comes to the masses of the Kikuyu, they behave no different than the Luo, Kalenjin, Bukusu etc masses.  They will have their prejudices and epithets against the other in equal measure.  They feel special and can flex their small muscles behind a tribal kingpin.  These prejudices and hatreds are needed and reinforced by the elites(Liluyu, Luo, etc) to keep the masses entranced because they have nothing else to sell them.  If Kiuks are reminded that Jadhes are the enemy, they are less likely to pay attention to the fact that they are all being equally shafted and will wake up at 4 am on election day to vote for their tormentors to protect them against the enemy  But all this is common knowledge.  What you want is to show that somehow Kikuyu prejudice is worse because it's...well Kikuyu,

Something else David Ndii is not saying.  How are we supposed to end tribalism?  You also don't seem to have any suggestions on how the problem can be overcome.

We all hate tribalism.  The type practiced by Kikuyu elite is not any different.  Save for being in power - this is the only important difference.  Because they are in power, you tend to scrutinize their behavior more.  And you end up hating it more, while retaining a healthy blind spot for the same behavior elsewhere.

The rest such as their thoughts on ethnic superiority is secondary - not important in my view, except as a mechanism by the elite to alienate the "enemy" and maintain a stranglehold on the community support.  The animosity with other tribes is vital to the survival of the elite.  They will happily sacrifice a few peasants from the community to advance this narrative and maintain the status quo.  They don't do it because they believe they are superior.  They do it because they need the animosity to retain their position.  When you react the way you do, that is music to their ears.

IMO, that there is more than just those two solutions you suggest.  I think the most important one is to strengthen devolution.

[Kichwa]

To say that tribalism is the same no matter who practices it is a big fat lie.  Tribalism, racism or sexism are all about power which manifests its self into unfair economic advantages  and therefore more political and economic power.  Its like saying that black racism in America is just as bad as white racism or that male chauvinism and feminism are all the same.  Jomo and Moi practiced tribalism when they had ultimate power and the effect was huge and cannot be compared to the effect of ouru's tribalism or any future leaders tribalism-thanks to multi-party, presidential term limits, devolution and the bill of rights enshrined in the new katiba.  Right now we have to work on free and fair elections and rampant corruption to continue leveling the playing field.  We are not at a point in our struggle where we can say that the kikuyus quest to retain power by all means is equivalent to what any tribe would do if there tribes mate was in power.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

To say that tribalism is the same no matter who practices it is a big fat lie.  Tribalism, racism or sexism are all about power which manifests its self into unfair economic advantages  and therefore more political and economic power.  Its like saying that black racism in America is just as bad as white racism or that male chauvinism and feminism are all the same.  Jomo and Moi practiced tribalism when they had ultimate power and the effect was huge and cannot be compared to the effect of ouru's tribalism or any future leaders tribalism-thanks to multi-party, presidential term limits, devolution and the bill of rights enshrined in the new katiba.  Right now we have to work on free and fair elections and rampant corruption to continue leveling the playing field.  We are not at a point in our struggle where we can say that the kikuyus quest to retain power by all means is equivalent to what any tribe would do if there tribes mate was in power.

The good thing is that nobody has said it is the same.  If you read my response, I note that the important difference is the power of the Kikuyu elite.  Also, it's not fair to compare it to racism because the average KIkuyu is just as much a victim of their elites machinations as the average Kenyan.

[Omollo]

I respect your views but strongly disagree with the premises upon which you build your argument.

First I have noted your denial of "equalizing" tribalism. I find it somewhat disingenuous - I hope in good faith. Who knows how many people have fallen victim to the highly organized and lately high tech propaganda from the Uhuru regime. Billions are spent on spreading propaganda and deceiving people. One of the best moves is to pay TV and Radio stations to preach against "tribalism". Goebbels would not have thought of it. The perpetrator of tribalism preaching against it. Makes viewers and Listeners begin thinking he is not a "tribalist". It's a topic for another day when we shall look in to why kids are now ashamed to state their tribes for fear of being tribalists and instead say they are "Kenyans". It's a crime against Humanity in itself.

Di I care if someone looks at himself as "superior"? Hell no. I read The Fate of a Cockroach by Tawfiq al-Hakim years ago and know how to ignore self styled kings.

That bravado is not what most Kenyans are against. They are opposed to arguments that justify oppression. Jomo Kenyatta wrote about the Mzungu stealing land and then arguing that he was better placed to utilize it and therefore also justified in stealing it. Achebe in "The Trouble With Nigeria shares a parable of a snake who bought a horse but could not ride as well as The Hare. He firmly resisted The Hare's attempts to grab the horse just because he (Hare) was an expert jokey while snake didn't even know how to mount a horse properly. I believe Kichwa has responded concretely to the point you raise.

What I am opposed to is your seeming acquiescence with this state of affairs. To you it is just a normal activity in the affairs of the country. It is not. Kikuyu tribalism is founded on seditious and treasonous oaths. It is not about a few peasants being sacrificed. All human beings are to be treated with respect and accorded the dignity they have a right to for the mere fact that they are human beings.

The 2010 constitution sought to address this issue and set up institutions to fight it. Kibaki and Uhuru emasculated the institutions. NCIC has some gate keeper called Kaparo to complete the job started by Kibunja who turned it in to a regular Tharaka household, having employed his tribesmen from sweeper upwards. The same goes for KNHRC, The Gender and Equality commission. Uhuru and Kibaki made sure the boards of these bodies had enough sycophants to overrule any decisions by stuffing their own tribesmen in there.

That is what I call State Capture. Uhuru Kenyatta has captured the state on behalf of his tribe. He has emasculated parliament, The Police, The CID and NIS. There is simply no avenue for anybody to challenge him or his tribe. His control over the state is comprehensive.

I choose to react the way I do. Like Kiraitu Murungi said yesterday when he voted against the laws he negotiated with CORD, he owes nobody an explanation. They have chosen to intimidate Kenyans and we shall resist.

 

We all hate tribalism.  The type practiced by Kikuyu elite is not any different.  Save for being in power - this is the only important difference.  Because they are in power, you tend to scrutinize their behavior more.  And you end up hating it more, while retaining a healthy blind spot for the same behavior elsewhere.

The rest such as their thoughts on ethnic superiority is secondary - not important in my view, except as a mechanism by the elite to alienate the "enemy" and maintain a stranglehold on the community support.  The animosity with other tribes is vital to the survival of the elite.  They will happily sacrifice a few peasants from the community to advance this narrative and maintain the status quo.  They don't do it because they believe they are superior.  They do it because they need the animosity to retain their position.  When you react the way you do, that is music to their ears.

IMO, that there is more than just those two solutions you suggest.  I think the most important one is to strengthen devolution.

[Kichwa]

Even with racism, not all who subscribe to the belief that they are superior are the same.  There are white poor people who are just as racists as their rich brothers. In this respect racism is very similar to tribalism.  It is noted that most poor whites in Red states who were opposed to Obama care and called it socialized medicine did not have medical coverage and were more likely to benefit from it.  In the US, numerically, there are more whites on Food Stamps and Public Assistance than people of color and yet the same poor white folks on the doh  believe that they are more hard working and less dependent on government than people of color .  In Kenya there are many poor kikuyus who believe that all luos are lazy, socialists and that all they want is hand-outs from government and yet they get more government help over the last 50 years than luos will ever get at any point of time in history. This all started in the 60's when Jomo and Jaramogi disagreed and the propaganda that all luos are lazy socialists while all kikuyus are hard working capitalists became the bible truth. This stuff works even today and it tells you how powerful tribalism is once entrenched.

To say that tribalism is the same no matter who practices it is a big fat lie.  Tribalism, racism or sexism are all about power which manifests its self into unfair economic advantages  and therefore more political and economic power.  Its like saying that black racism in America is just as bad as white racism or that male chauvinism and feminism are all the same.  Jomo and Moi practiced tribalism when they had ultimate power and the effect was huge and cannot be compared to the effect of ouru's tribalism or any future leaders tribalism-thanks to multi-party, presidential term limits, devolution and the bill of rights enshrined in the new katiba.  Right now we have to work on free and fair elections and rampant corruption to continue leveling the playing field.  We are not at a point in our struggle where we can say that the kikuyus quest to retain power by all means is equivalent to what any tribe would do if there tribes mate was in power.

The good thing is that nobody has said it is the same.  If you read my response, I note that the important difference is the power of the Kikuyu elite.  Also, it's not fair to compare it to racism because the average KIkuyu is just as much a victim of their elites machinations as the average Kenyan.

[MOON Ki]

There are people, like Ndii, who, for the greater good, have the courage to say in public what they have been told must be kept secret.   We all have our "tribal myths"; you know it, and I know it.  Ndii's article, made public at high personal cost should not be about "Aha!  This confirms what I always suspected!".   Rather, it should be a challenge for all us ("small" or "big") to come out (in private or in public) and truthfully face reality ... to take the first step, which is acknowledgement, in breaking out of a nasty "black-hole".   But, certainly, particular, no purpose is served by using  such to demonize all Kikuyu.  "Thinking people" should be able to show that they have something useful that the "herd"  doesn't. That's the whole point in going to school.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

There are people, like Ndii, who, for the greater good, have the courage to say in public what they have been told must be kept secret.   We all have our "tribal myths"; you know it, and I know it.  Ndii's article, made public at high personal cost should not be about "Aha!  This confirms what I always suspected!".   Rather, it should be a challenge for all us ("small" or "big") to come out (in private or in public) and truthfully face reality ... to take the first step, which is acknowledgement, in breaking out of a nasty "black-hole".   But, certainly, particular, no purpose is served by using  such to demonize all Kikuyu.  "Thinking people" should be able to show that they have something useful that the "herd"  doesn't. That's the whole point in going to school.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

Yep.  Everybody believes they have the swagger.  If you get caught up in only one group doing their shit, you miss the whole picture.  That the supposed better guys are just part of the same problem.

[Kichwa]

I find your admonishment that Ndii made these statements at a  high personal cost and therefore  certain "people" should not openly support him to be very sad.  It is true that when non-kikuyus make the same statements they are dismissed as "demonizing Kikuyus", but that is a characterization and does not mean the statements are not true regardless of who says them.  When Migurna Miguna airs his feelings about Raila or Luos, I see  many Kikuyus agree with him and I do not hear of such admonishment.  Many Kenyans have lost their lives and spent years in jail for speaking the truth to power at very high " personal cost" and I do not think Ndii would like to be treated any differently. I support what Ndii says as a fellow Kenyan that I agree with regardless of tribe and I am not worried how those who disagree characterize it.  What Ndii speaks of is not new and neither is he the first Kikuyu to say so. Many Kenyans, some who are Kikuyus have spoken of different versions of the same that Ndii speaks of  and some like JM lost their lives while others like Ngugi-spent time in detention and then exile just to mention two kikuyus. The political changes that have been made through their struggle was to make sure that people like Ndii or Miguna can speak what they believe to be the truth without intimidation or fear.

There are people, like Ndii, who, for the greater good, have the courage to say in public what they have been told must be kept secret.   We all have our "tribal myths"; you know it, and I know it.  Ndii's article, made public at high personal cost should not be about "Aha!  This confirms what I always suspected!".   Rather, it should be a challenge for all us ("small" or "big") to come out (in private or in public) and truthfully face reality ... to take the first step, which is acknowledgement, in breaking out of a nasty "black-hole".   But, certainly, particular, no purpose is served by using  such to demonize all Kikuyu.  "Thinking people" should be able to show that they have something useful that the "herd"  doesn't. That's the whole point in going to school.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

[Omollo]

The point is Ndii has written what I have previously written about. I am sorry if my stating the fact hurts you or any other person.

I also disagree that with you or anybody else apologizing for Ndii. Feel free to take your own stand on the bigotry among your people.

If you read the article, he has had many other "personal costs" to pay. His stand on the Eurobond heist comes to mind as one of the most recent. He was out early to question the wisdom of the SGR and later the costs and massive theft over there. He questioned the Nairobi - Naivasha SGR Tender. The list of his "personal" sacrifices is long and has touched on matters of greater danger which have seen other human beings killed - (Juma for instance).

About your "challenge": If I belonged to a tribe that believes in entitlement, I would have long disowned it. My track record on that subject is most clear. I can cite many issues on I have stood firmly against popular opinion within my area. If however you expect me to engage in showmanship to "condemn" non existent ills among my people for the sake of making you or the perpetrators of bigotry feel better, you will wait for a very long time.

I have every reason to celebrate David Ndii considering I have previously the dearth of such voices among the Kikuyu. I came under fire from you with Pundit (of the Order of Kalenjin Warriors) leading the charge. Had I written the Ndii article, I would probably be facing the usual "ban him" calls.

So more than anybody else, I have the right to celebrate David Ndii and say a million "Ahas"

There are people, like Ndii, who, for the greater good, have the courage to say in public what they have been told must be kept secret.   We all have our "tribal myths"; you know it, and I know it.  Ndii's article, made public at high personal cost should not be about "Aha!  This confirms what I always suspected!".   Rather, it should be a challenge for all us ("small" or "big") to come out (in private or in public) and truthfully face reality ... to take the first step, which is acknowledgement, in breaking out of a nasty "black-hole".   But, certainly, particular, no purpose is served by using  such to demonize all Kikuyu.  "Thinking people" should be able to show that they have something useful that the "herd"  doesn't. That's the whole point in going to school.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

[MOON Ki]

The point is Ndii has written what I have previously written about. I am sorry if my stating the fact hurts you or any other person.

I can assure you that I am not hurt.

Feel free to take your own stand on the bigotry among your people.

I have.

(Juma for instance).

 

If however you expect me to engage in showmanship to "condemn" non existent ills among my people for the sake of making you or the perpetrators of bigotry feel better, you will wait for a very long time.

I have expectations of you?   Really?

So more than anybody else, I have the right to celebrate David Ndii and say a million "Ahas"

Go for it.

[Globalcitizen12]

Will you then join me in condemning Uhuru Kenyatta for institutionalizing Tribalism? Would you also join me in demanding that Uhuru Kenyatta and resign as Head of state to facilitate a truly national unity government?

I also hope you will support measures to De-bigotize the people of Central Province and free them from the effects of Mass oathing started by Jomo Kenyatta.

on tribalism it should start with you and I.. Like MJ sang look at the man in the mirror and change that man first. I believe changing prejudice is one family at a time or child at a time. Let no amount of bitterness allow you condemn the ignorant masses who for one reason or the other have decided to stop thinking rational on issues. After reading that book about Rwanda by that woman who survived genocide I realized how easy it is to get caught up in national madness and do harm against other human beings. Dr Ndii is letting his conscience dictate how lives his life. He has decided to take this path as an individual he can only point it out to others but he has less influence over them.

condescending

What a condescending twat you are! you do not know me from Adam and you have no idea on where I stand on the issue of Uhuru. Your claim that only Kikuyus need to be de-bigoted is baloney dressed as intellectual discourse. You claim  that you know the reasons why millions voted for Uhuru. Your conclusion was that Kikuyus must have done so to despise other Kenyans and lord over them. You have started this debate with a preconceived conclusion on what Ndii article is about. Have you ever asked yourself why would voters in their wisdom or lack thereof vote the way they did? The things you spattering all over the wall about "admission" "revelations" about Kikuyu open secrets is nothing new. For those us who have been around the block and have left the echo chamber and engaged others we know that these truths are told and known by most and are offered as a lesson learnt from historical perspective. They are given as wrong ideas and deeds that caused dishonor to a community. They are used as a teacher able moments not as historical facts of great conquest and political supremacy.

If you step back and stop preaching to the choir you would come with different strategies and ways to win the hearts and minds of your audience. You cannot do that by insulting the same people you claim to love.

Kikuyus for most fact has no problem with the person of Raila. Leave the propaganda you have heard from few loud uncouth characters. What t happened and did not happen in 2013 is the interest of Raila and Kikuyus did not converge. Kikuyus made a strategic risky move of appeasing their historical enemies Kalenjins in RV. They voted for Peace and thought that with RV on their side they would be guaranteed  peace and that the rest would work itself out. However, due to the fact this union was between enemies and was made by one group as an appeasement there is a lot of unease and dissatisfaction with this arrangement and people are questioning the wisdom of it. Couple with current corruption this unions is becoming unpalatable for voters

There is an opportunity for CORD here to present an alternative. To give Kikuyus a reason to give CORD a second look. This wont be done when people like you are hell bound on making all type of unnecessary political skirmishes that do nothing but enhance the stereo type of CORD supporters being fanatical and riotous.

The only reason why Uhuru and Ruto are jumping up and down is because they have realized that a chuck of Kikuyu voters may not vote for them.

Offer these chunk of voters an alternative. Sell your ideas. Btw I wonder which world do you live in that you have not caught up to this fact. You must be deep in the CORD echo chamber to hear any other voices.

Omollo you are a diaspora Kenyan and sometimes not being on the ground gives us a false sense of being in touch with reality. My advice to you is to tone down your bellicosity and your self righteousness.

I for one will always have a disclaimer that I am not on the ground and have no feel of the real sentiment. I am believer that the decision is for Kenyans in Kenya to make on who should be their leader. For that matter I wont even cast a diaspora vote for I believe I cannot impose my will on those that will directly be affected by my vote.

With that I bow out of this debate

[Kichwa]

Global citizen: Kikuyus do not have to apologize or explain why they voted for Ouru. Kenyan voters have a right to vote for whomever they want for whatever reason. The issue is free and fair elections. The propaganda is that Cord lost because Luos do not vote and that Kikuyus vote in large numbers. It's the myth of Luos are lazy and Kikuyus are hardworking 2.0. The underlying reasons are never spoken of in both 1.0 version and the 2.0 version. Elections of Kenya are stolen during voter registration and that is why this issue is highly contentious. It's the "ghost voters" already in their data base that is the problem and not the real voters.  The best way to resolve this problem is to clean the voter registration and also to make sure that only real people register and  vote. This is why Jubilee will never allow the voter registration list to be cleaned up and the manual voting to be discarded. They need a few hours of manual voting to vote for the "ghost voters". The tyranny of numbers is a myth-it's really the tyranny of "ghost voters".

[Omollo]

You seem to be irked beyond reason and have now resorted to plain invective. It is sad but not unexpected.

Ndii addressed this very issue and allow me to quote him:

My declining did not go down well, but the diatribe that followed took me by surprise. How could I as a Kikuyu not see the consequences of losing power? That we would be overrun by hostile envious tribes and who would run down the country and dispossess us of everything?

condescending

What a condescending twat you are! you do not know me from Adam and you have no idea on where I stand on the issue of Uhuru.

I guess that is why I requested you to join me in taking specific stands on specific issues. Clearly you now make your position abundantly clear.

Your claim that only Kikuyus need to be de-bigoted is baloney dressed as intellectual discourse.

I based my position on well documented facts not least the confirmation by The Right Reverend John Gatu of the PCEA ( a church to which more than half of Kikuyus ascribe to) of Mass Tribal Oathing started by Jomo Kenyatta and now Uhuru Kenyatta. Here follows Ndii's account of a recent encounter:

Shortly before the election, I had been duped to speak at a social gathering convened by respectable members of the Kikuyu elite.there was certainly enough blood and entrails around to re-enact the Gatundu tea ceremonies.

I need not add more.

You claim  that you know the reasons why millions voted for Uhuru. Your conclusion was that Kikuyus must have done so to despise other Kenyans and lord over them.

Now that you put it that way I am bound to agree. You may note that I am not the only one who holds those views. Munya and Kabogo have expressed views that undermine the reasons for the Kikuyu - Kalenjin Alliance you cite above and below. The Kalenjin were just being shafted as they will realize. Kibaki shafted Luos and Luhyas before he finished off with Kambas (Kalonzo).

You have started this debate with a preconceived conclusion on what Ndii article is about.

I wouldn't have started the debate if I did not have an opinion on the article. As for my conclusions being preconceived: Won't it have made it even easier for you to put them to shame. Unfortunately I have clearly backed up my views on why I support David Ndii.

It is your right to offer your opinion on any issue.

Have you ever asked yourself why would voters in their wisdom or lack thereof vote the way they did?

I believe the answers to that question is what you are now strongly disagreeing with. So yes I have asked myself that question severally.

The things you spattering all over the wall about "admission" "revelations" about Kikuyu open secrets is nothing new.

Those "things" encompass my opinion. I am currently (and respectfully) going through yours. Let's read more of it below:

For those us who have been around the block and have left the echo chamber and engaged others we know that these truths are told and known by most and are offered as a lesson learnt from historical perspective. They are given as wrong ideas and deeds that caused dishonor to a community. They are used as a teacher able moments not as historical facts of great conquest and political supremacy.

The problem is current, ongoing and poses a clear and present danger to the foundations and very existence of the Nation-State Kenya. Engaging in cosmetic showmanship is a luxury Kenya cannot afford. Come next week and CORD will be calling for demos and Uhuru will start his killings and assassinations. That will not end up in a class room as a "Teachable" moment anytime soon. Perhaps in 100 years after the demise of Uhuru Kenyatta.

If you step back and stop preaching to the choir you would come with different strategies and ways to win the hearts and minds of your audience. You cannot do that by insulting the same people you claim to love.

You have missed the point. I am not advocating for the appeasement of anybody. The period of appeasement ended when Uhuru Kenyatta rigged the 2013 elections and embarked on a looting spree. 2017 is a simple affair. Those who want peace will allow free and fair elections. Nobody will take off pants and bend over to be shafted. That is my gospel.

Kikuyus for most fact has no problem with the person of Raila.

They can start having problems with him from today if they so wish. It matters not

Leave the propaganda you have heard from few loud uncouth characters.

The onlys propaganda I am exposed to is listening to Macharia's radio and TVs alongside those of The Kenyatta family as well as the Captured KBC singing "uwiano" and one country one people and the rest of the crap meant for us to absorb. Yes and that boring song by Eric Wainaina speaking of Daima Mkenya when he actually means "Daima Kikuyu". That song reminds people of the duplicity they saw in 2007 - 08 when they were were being serenaded as Kibaki and Uhuru killed people. Sorry but people outside Central have become impervious to such propaganda.

What t happened and did not happen in 2013 is the interest of Raila and Kikuyus did not converge.

I wish I understood what you mean by that. Totally obscure.

Kikuyus made a strategic risky move of appeasing their historical enemies Kalenjins in RV. They voted for Peace and thought that with RV on their side they would be guaranteed  peace and that the rest would work itself out. However, due to the fact this union was between enemies and was made by one group as an appeasement there is a lot of unease and dissatisfaction with this arrangement and people are questioning the wisdom of it. Couple with current corruption this unions is becoming unpalatable for voters

The 2013 vote was about capturing government to beat the ICC. After that, the next agenda was to steal as much as possible because there is no other chance after 2017. The rest of what you say simply shows you have fallen victim to Uhuru and Ruto propaganda.

What more peace did Uhuru and Ruto bring to the Rift Valley that was no already there? Did Kikuyus expelled from the land go back? If they did why did GoK spent billions on buying new land for them?

Historically the pre election violence in RV pitted Kalenjins against Luos, Luhyas, Kisii etc. It was Government organized and as soon as Moi left power in 2002, it ended. Kalenjins believed there would be free and fair elections and were disappointed when Kibaki stole the elections in 2007. If no theft of elections takes place there would be no violence.

You are misleading by suggesting some kind of "historical" belligerence between Kalenjins and Kikuyu. Kindly state the instances of such and why it is "historical". Now who is spreading propaganda and tribal verandah talk?

There is an opportunity for CORD here to present an alternative.

CORD has always provided an alternative

To give Kikuyus a reason to give CORD a second look. This wont be done when people like you are hell bound on making all type of unnecessary political skirmishes that do nothing but enhance the stereo type of CORD supporters being fanatical and riotous.

If a normal Kenyan cannot see the need to oppose the activities of Uhuru Kenyatta that Kenyan has no business being in CORD and is best left outside.

Here you are stating your true position after all the pretence. You refer to CORD supporters with the same terminology as Maina Kamanda, Moses Kuria and other dyed in the wool Kikuyu Tribal bigots.

What you refer to as " unnecessary political skirmishes" is what brought Uhuru Kenyatta to negotiate the Elections laws that he is now trashing. He had refused otherwise. If I go back in history, it is that " unnecessary political skirmishes" that forced Moi to agree to multi-party politics. Those " unnecessary political skirmishes" kept Raila in prison and detention for 8 years. He was released when Moi gave up on One_party politics in 1992.

A man who believes the Uhuru Police State propaganda that labels peaceful demonstrators as "fanatical and riotous" is not worthy of being persuaded to join CORD.

 

The only reason why Uhuru and Ruto are jumping up and down is because they have realized that a chuck of Kikuyu voters may not vote for them. 

I disagree. Kikuyus will vote for Uhuru almost to a man. The Kalenjin vote will shrink but may be inflated thanks to the "manual voting".
CORD is NOT counting on a single vote from Central.

 

Offer these chunk of voters an alternative. Sell your ideas. Btw I wonder which world do you live in that you have not caught up to this fact. You must be deep in the CORD echo chamber to hear any other voices.

It has been tried and failed. Mass De-Oathing would have to be conducted first followed by Mass De-Bigotization before normal canvassing for votes takes place over there. Those people are patients that belong in hospital to be cared for on the same terms as a recovering addict. My heart goes out to them. I shade tears thinking how they have been politically narcotized.

Omollo you are a diaspora Kenyan and sometimes not being on the ground gives us a false sense of being in touch with reality. My advice to you is to tone down your bellicosity and your self righteousness.

Not true.

I for one will always have a disclaimer that I am not on the ground and have no feel of the real sentiment. I am believer that the decision is for Kenyans in Kenya to make on who should be their leader. For that matter I wont even cast a diaspora vote for I believe I cannot impose my will on those that will directly be affected by my vote.

With that I bow out of this debate

Unlike you I know the resentment. It is worse than 2007.