Author Topic: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence  (Read 41687 times)

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2016, 04:18:18 PM »
It may not be a command economy.  But the government can still provide a framework that encourages certain economic activities. 

And the government can go way beyond that.  One thing that the East Asian countries that have done (or are doing) well is hustling to get huge MNCs to set up shop there.    We never do that; instead, whenever our leaders get around, the focus seems to be on loans and "aid". 

The other thing the government can do is spend money wisely and not get involved in ways it should not.     Industries like paper, textiles, etc. have suffered because the nature of government involvement encouraged inefficiencies, leading to companies that couldn't compete when the rest of the world came knocking.     In hk's example, an Indian company has spent Sh. 1 billion to buy a majority stake in a pharmaceutical company.    Now consider that around 2010, the government put that much into Pan Paper Webuye, and we had this:

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kibaki-reopens-Pan-Paper-Mills-/1056-967022-fto14sz/index.html

And then? 

Having "learned something" from Pan Paper, there is now this:

http://www.nation.co.ke/business/Govt-to-inject-Sh680m-in-Rivatex-revival/996-2802556-2ufllw/index.html

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Offline hk

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2016, 05:43:01 PM »
It may not be a command economy.  But the government can still provide a framework that encourages certain economic activities. 

And the government can go way beyond that.  One thing that the East Asian countries that have done (or are doing) well is hustling to get huge MNCs to set up shop there.    We never do that; instead, whenever our leaders get around, the focus seems to be on loans and "aid". 

The other thing the government can do is spend money wisely and not get involved in ways it should not.     Industries like paper, textiles, etc. have suffered because the nature of government involvement encouraged inefficiencies, leading to companies that couldn't compete when the rest of the world came knocking.     In hk's example, an Indian company has spent Sh. 1 billion to buy a majority stake in a pharmaceutical company.    Now consider that around 2010, the government put that much into Pan Paper Webuye, and we had this:

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kibaki-reopens-Pan-Paper-Mills-/1056-967022-fto14sz/index.html

And then? 

Having "learned something" from Pan Paper, there is now this:

http://www.nation.co.ke/business/Govt-to-inject-Sh680m-in-Rivatex-revival/996-2802556-2ufllw/index.html
I agree on this. The Webuye panper revival was political and as result it collapsed. Rivatex might head the same way also. The viability of some of this companies from inception wasn't driven by market economy. Sugar and coffee bailouts are other examples of money wasted.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2016, 09:06:18 PM »
Manufacturing is not all low-tech. 

In the same vein, "low cost" and "low wages" are not absolute terms and do not necessarily mean "peanuts".    What they really mean is "lower than where most of the stuff is currently being made".     
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #83 on: September 21, 2016, 07:27:34 AM »
I am not sure about GoK hassling and rolling out red carpet for manufacturers or MNCS. I don't think a serious investor will go on looking at such kind of favours. I rather GoK worked on the fundamentals.Reducing bottleneck in doing business WB kind of things, improve power realiability & subsidizing industrial power, working on infrastructure, improving judicial systems and policing, providing land and such, reducing minumum pay, having KMA forum...all these should be done for ANYBODY...Kenya has had those MNCS..and they are closing shops...while some are thriving.

Kenya should aim to become a mature country with institutions that work....not a banana republic where PORK goes around sweat talking Samsung to set up shop. Samsung should feel free to fly here, find partners, and start or close their operation without ever seeing a minister or PORK.

Manufacturing companies should move in & out freely with their capital and investment like a true free economy that we ought to be.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2016, 08:45:41 AM »
I am not sure about GoK hassling and rolling out red carpet for manufacturers or MNCS. I don't think a serious investor will go on looking at such kind of favours. I rather GoK worked on the fundamentals.Reducing bottleneck in doing business WB kind of things, improve power realiability & subsidizing industrial power, working on infrastructure, improving judicial systems and policing, providing land and such, reducing minumum pay, having KMA forum...all these should be done for ANYBODY...Kenya has had those MNCS..and they are closing shops...while some are thriving.

Blue: Hassling would definitely be bad, unhelpful, and unproductive; I proposed hustling.

Anyways ....

As usual, I think a bit of homework would help: I think you really need to actually look at what has happened in East Asia: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

As for Kenya having "had those MNCs", apparently you are not considering scale: I don't just mean having a factory that employees 150 or so people; I mean really large operations that have a significant effect on the economy.   An example of that are the companies that have led to Vietnam now shipping around $30 billion per year of just cell phones.

Maybe if you tell us what MNCs have established really large operations in Kenya, and of what type, then we can discuss it further.

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Kenya should aim to become a mature country with institutions that work....not a banana republic where PORK goes around sweat talking Samsung to set up shop. Samsung should feel free to fly here, find partners, and start or close their operation without ever seeing a minister or PORK.

OK.  Maybe they will get serious when Kenya is a "mature country" and they "feel free to fly here".    In the meantime, they are going to places where efforts have been made to encourage them, and the results show: As an example, compare Kenya's GDP per capita with Vietnam's in a year as recent as 2000, and then compare where they are today.   

By the way, there is a difference between some simple-minded idea of a company needing to see a minister or PORK before considering doing business in Kenya  and that high-level officials of a government  encouraging inward investment and not just begging for loan and "aid".   
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2016, 11:46:49 AM »
Samsung and others moving to Vietnam or Ethiopia closer home (Tecno) are moving there coz it makes business sense. It not because somebody grovelled or extended favours. Those countries I bet fixed some fundemantals. Kenya is attracting lots of foreign companies in non-manufacturing coz it makes business sense to come to Nairobi.

We cannot convince big MNC to come here if we are losing the small ones. We have to keep working on the fundamentals and they will come flooding. The guy who will roll out the carpet in 2030 is guy you'll praise - not the guy who is working hard now to ensure we have reliable & cheap power, working ports in mombasa and lamu, SGR straight to Nairobi and the works.

Vietnam didn't happen in a day - Kenya service sector couldn't have happen if we didn't concentrate on investing heavily in our education sector for many years. Now big MNCS are daily setting shop in Nairobi and can be able to find qualified staff in the same afternoon they open an office.

I am not sure about GoK hassling and rolling out red carpet for manufacturers or MNCS. I don't think a serious investor will go on looking at such kind of favours. I rather GoK worked on the fundamentals.Reducing bottleneck in doing business WB kind of things, improve power realiability & subsidizing industrial power, working on infrastructure, improving judicial systems and policing, providing land and such, reducing minumum pay, having KMA forum...all these should be done for ANYBODY...Kenya has had those MNCS..and they are closing shops...while some are thriving.

Blue: Hassling would definitely be bad, unhelpful, and unproductive; I proposed hustling.

Anyways ....

As usual, I think a bit of homework would help: I think you really need to actually look at what has happened in East Asia: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam etc.

As for Kenya having "had those MNCs", apparently you are not considering scale: I don't just mean having a factory that employees 150 or so people; I mean really large operations that have a significant effect on the economy.   An example of that are the companies that have led to Vietnam now shipping around $30 billion per year of just cell phones.

Maybe if you tell us what MNCs have established really large operations in Kenya, and of what type, then we can discuss it further.

Quote
Kenya should aim to become a mature country with institutions that work....not a banana republic where PORK goes around sweat talking Samsung to set up shop. Samsung should feel free to fly here, find partners, and start or close their operation without ever seeing a minister or PORK.

OK.  Maybe they will get serious when Kenya is a "mature country" and they "feel free to fly here".    In the meantime, they are going to places where efforts have been made to encourage them, and the results show: As an example, compare Kenya's GDP per capita with Vietnam's in a year as recent as 2000, and then compare where they are today.   

By the way, there is a difference between some simple-minded idea of a company needing to see a minister or PORK before considering doing business in Kenya  and that high-level officials of a government  encouraging inward investment and not just begging for loan and "aid".   


Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2016, 01:27:04 PM »
Kenya will continue to attract service sector MNCs like big tech's while the Eveready's and Sameer's move to Ethiopia and India. I see no sufficient concerted effort to address industrial fundamentals while some like labor and land cost are impossible to fix in our open market.
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Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2016, 03:25:42 PM »
Samsung and others moving to Vietnam or Ethiopia closer home (Tecno) are moving there coz it makes business sense. It not because somebody grovelled or extended favours.

Grovel is not the word, and like I said: homework.     

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Those countries I bet fixed some fundemantals. Kenya is attracting lots of foreign companies in non-manufacturing coz it makes business sense to come to Nairobi.

Good.   But see my point above on size: How are those "lots of foreign companies" contributing to GDP and employment?   Name them---"the big MNCS [that]  are daily setting shop in Nairobi"---and give relevant numbers.  Then we will be in a position to have a better discussion.   

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Kenya service sector couldn't have happen if we didn't concentrate on investing heavily in our education sector for many years.   

I remember reading a World-Bank report that described Kenya's "modern services" sector as a "success story"---high productivity and an increasing contribution to GDP.    It then noted that the sector is concentrated around Nairobi, but about 90% of Kenyans don't even live in Nairobi.     It also noted that while sectors like finance and communications are doing really well, they aren't creating enough jobs---fewer than 10,000 per year.       In terms of employment numbers, much of the service industry in Kenya seems to be in shoe-shine boys, selling mandazis by the roadside, pandering to tourists, etc.    According to you (on this thread):

Quote
One is ubiquitious boda boda - transport sector of the economy- that now employs millions of youths

and (also according to you) we have ever-growing legions of watchmen.

One doesn't quite see masses-out-of-poverty activity anywhere there.

And yet we "concentrate[d] on investing heavily in our education sector for many years" to make things "happen" in that sector?     

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Now big MNCS are daily setting shop in Nairobi and can be able to find qualified staff in the same afternoon they open an office.
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2016, 03:57:53 PM »
You've managed to summarize what I am trying to put across in few words. Kenya GDP in 2005 was mere 18B - now it nearly 70B -yet it has dont much manufacturing. Of course Ethiopia has grown faster from 12B to about 70B too now - and have focused on manufacturing. Kenya did suffer PEV in 2007 that slammed growth from 7% to 1.7%....and then Alshabab terror knock us off the sail...all said and done...we would have matched Ethiopia growth. So we are not doing as badly as the pessimist would want to stay.
Kenya will continue to attract service sector MNCs like big tech's while the Eveready's and Sameer's move to Ethiopia and India. I see no sufficient concerted effort to address industrial fundamentals while some like labor and land cost are impossible to fix in our open market.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2016, 04:05:12 PM »
Ohoo poor Monki, you're too slow my friend.
1) My first point remain that Kenya service sector is our comparative advantage. We don't have to grovel for service companies to set up shop in Kenya. We need to make it go from good to great. Kenya is MNC capital of SSA outside RSA. They dock in Nairobi but eventually this disperse all over the country. Our manufacturing is just not competitive...except perhaps in things that are hard to import...cement for example..or quarry stones.
2) My second point relates to INFORMAL SECTOR (boda boda). Kenya has huge informal sector - as you would expect from a country that is trying to leapfrog from agriculture to services. Conventional knowledge is that informal sector is bad - jobs are low paying, unpredictable and hard to tax. Kenya is showing that doesn't have to be true. Our informal sector are beating formal jobs (again key denominator is for the same level of education). Kenya is showing with banking revolution, mpesa and all the new "knowledge" industry - a guy in informal sector, can have a bank account, borrow loan and pretty much move from what "informal sector" to what US would call "SME sector" --which apparently is the engine of growth. We can focus on formalizing the informal sector - and - we might just become a rare exception to this touted model of primary-secondary -then services (tertiary).

So let try again modern services +modern informal sector is where kenya needs to head. She doesn't have to become huge factory selling real stuff. She can play smart. She is playing smart with mpesa, mshari, mtiba, name all these innovations happening in services sectors that are helping informal sector become SMES.

If boda boda guy like I know many in mavoko, can work hard, save 300shs in phone or bank, can be able to borrow loan and buy a taxi, build a houses, take kids to schools..and basically live life like a middle class..that is DEVELOPMENT. Same way with boda boad guy being employed to make shoes in Ethiopia for pittance (2,000ksh -salary all kenyans snear at now) and work for 20yrs...before he can buy a car.

Samsung and others moving to Vietnam or Ethiopia closer home (Tecno) are moving there coz it makes business sense. It not because somebody grovelled or extended favours.

Grovel is not the word, and like I said: homework.     

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Those countries I bet fixed some fundemantals. Kenya is attracting lots of foreign companies in non-manufacturing coz it makes business sense to come to Nairobi.

Good.   But see my point above on size: How are those "lots of foreign companies" contributing to GDP and employment?   Name them---"the big MNCS [that]  are daily setting shop in Nairobi"---and give relevant numbers.  Then we will be in a position to have a better discussion.   

Quote
Kenya service sector couldn't have happen if we didn't concentrate on investing heavily in our education sector for many years.   

I remember reading a World-Bank report that described Kenya's "modern services" sector as a "success story"---high productivity and an increasing contribution to GDP.    It then noted that the sector is concentrated around Nairobi, but about 90% of Kenyans don't even live in Nairobi.     It also noted that while sectors like finance and communications are doing really well, they aren't creating enough jobs---fewer than 10,000 per year.       In terms of employment numbers, much of the service industry in Kenya seems to be in shoe-shine boys, selling mandazis by the roadside, pandering to tourists, etc.    According to you (on this thread):

Quote
One is ubiquitious boda boda - transport sector of the economy- that now employs millions of youths

and (also according to you) we have ever-growing legions of watchmen.

One doesn't quite see masses-out-of-poverty activity anywhere there.

And yet we "concentrate[d] on investing heavily in our education sector for many years" to make things "happen" in that sector?     

Quote
Now big MNCS are daily setting shop in Nairobi and can be able to find qualified staff in the same afternoon they open an office.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2016, 04:37:58 PM »
Ohoo poor Monki, you're too slow my friend.
1) My first point remain that Kenya service sector is our comparative advantage. We don't have to grovel for service companies to set up shop in Kenya. We need to make it go from good to great. Kenya is MNC capital of SSA outside RSA. They dock in Nairobi but eventually this disperse all over the country.

Yes, I am indeed too slow; please just humour me.      Kenya may indeed be the "MNC capital of SSA outside RSA".   But the point is not just about having MNCs; it is about a contribution to employment, GDP, and getting people out of poverty.    So, once again: what is the contribution there of the MNCs in "MNC capital of SSA outside RSA"?    Once we have numbers ....


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2) My second point relates to INFORMAL SECTOR (boda boda). Kenya has huge informal sector - as you would expect from a country that is trying to leapfrog from agriculture to services. Conventional knowledge is that informal sector is bad - jobs are low paying, unpredictable and hard to tax. Kenya is showing that doesn't have to be true.

Can you point us to concrete evidence to confirm that?   The reason I ask is that on wages, for example, a 2016 World-Bank report (using data from GoK) estimates that 75% of people employed in the informal sector earn between Ksh. 1,000 per month and Ksh. 9,000 per month.   Likewise, can you provide evidence that the informal sector in Kenya is predictable and easy to tax?

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Our informal sector are beating formal jobs (again key denominator is for the same level of education).

Weka evidence hapa hapa.   And I mean substantial and concrete, not anecdotal, evidence.

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we might just become a rare exception to this touted model of primary-secondary -then services (tertiary).

Rare exception, huh?   We are no longer plan to follow in the footsteps of the "many examples of countries that have moved to developed world through focusing solely on services"?

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If boda boda guy like I know many in mavoko, can work hard, save 300shs in phone or bank, can be able to borrow loan and buy a taxi, build a houses, take kids to schools..and basically live life like a middle class..that is DEVELOPMENT.

Sounds good.   So, how many boda-boda guys are making such a transition?
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2016, 05:04:05 PM »
Moonki,
One minute you're accepting as a fact that kenya service sector is advanced (after reading WB report) the next you're re-opening the issue again.

Kenya GDP has grown from 18B 10yrs ago to 70B today...mainly driven by service sectors..that got to tell your something about service sector contribution to jobs, GDP and the works. Ethiopia who have done far better in manufacturing (albeit from near zero base) have grown from 12b to 70B...and yet we have had PEV & alshabab messing up...so as you can see it doesn't matter the colour of the cat...what matters is that it catches the mice. Kenya economy can grow by 8-10% (it did 7% in 2007 before PEV crushed it) if we can be a little serious...and that is magic number we need to move to developed world in a generation!

I don't see why we should re-open issue no 1. Kenya is Sub-saharan Africa's service GIANT outside RSA. Largest non-mineral economy in SSA. KRA collects more than 12B usd per annum from that economy - I think top 4-5 in Africa or 3rd in SSA in tax revenue - just below Nigeria (with oil) and RSA. Get it. We are just no lucky with minerals or making things..but we got services pretty much cornered.

Or you need more ancedotal evidence. Tecno will open phone manufacturing plant in Ethiopia but will most likely open it's operation, marketting and after-sale service office in Nairobi - actually Samsung has it's design office here. The same is true for many MNC..manufacturing or not..they are opening offices in Nairobi every week. There are several reasons (perfect confluence -economics of consolidation) for this..but Nairobi and Kenya tick all the services boxes..but sucks in manufacturing...so Nestle will move it operation to Egypt or Ethiopia..but will retain Nairobi for marketting, call-centers, operations and name many other services that modern economy requires...and those are jobs, rental spaces and even fancy services like spas :)

There is someone who has compiled all these in thread I normally check....Nairobi the HQS of multinationals in Africa http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1559138&page=40

Let close issue no 1...so we can move to Boda Boda issue (INFORMAL SECTOR).

When you're ready to close issue no 1...we can move on.

Can we close issue no 1...as self-evident...and we can tussle over Kenya's informal sector.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2016, 05:52:03 PM »
Moonki,
One minute you're accepting as a fact that kenya service sector is advanced (after reading WB report) the next you're re-opening the issue again.

It appears that you have some difficulties in reading.   Here is what I wrote:

Quote
I remember reading a World-Bank report that described Kenya's "modern services" sector as a "success story"

"Modern services" are things like finance and communication, and they constitute a very small part of the Kenyan services sector.   I also added that:

Quote
In terms of employment numbers, much of the service industry in Kenya seems to be in shoe-shine boys, selling mandazis by the roadside, pandering to tourists, etc.

Which part of that leads you to believe that I am now "accepting as a fact that kenya service sector is advanced"?

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Kenya is Sub-saharan Africa's service kenya outside RSA. Largest non-mineral economy in SSA. KRA collects more than 12B usd per annum from that economy - I think top 4-5 in Africa or 3rd in SSA - just below Nigeria (with oil) and RSA. Get it.

Excellent.   And how much is all  that doing for lifting the masses out of poverty?

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Or you need more ancedotal evidence.

As I have indicated, I prefer concrete and substantive evidence.

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actually Samsung has it's design office here.

Really? Interesting.  Where it it located?  What sorts of things are being designed there?  The last I had anything major of Samsung In Kenya was in late 2015 and early this year:

http://www.therecycler.com/posts/samsung-cutbacks-endanger-kenyan-printer-plant/

http://techcabal.com/2016/02/25/samsung-has-opened-its-largest-customer-experience-store-in-africa-and-its-in-nairobi/

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The same is true for many MNC..manufacturing or not..they are opening offices in Nairobi every week.

Every week, huh?   That's amazing.   But what I have noted is this:

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But the point is not just about having MNCs; it is about a contribution to employment, GDP, and getting people out of poverty.    So, once again: what is the contribution there of the MNCs in "MNC capital of SSA outside RSA"?

In that regard, of your Samsung example:

Quote
http://www.therecycler.com/posts/samsung-cutbacks-endanger-kenyan-printer-plant/

To my mind, 74 Kenyans and 50 expatriates aren't exactly great figures.  Or have things improved since then?

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Let close issue no 1...so we can move to Boda Boda issue (INFORMAL SECTOR).

Sure, tell me about things like  boda boda, which, as you have stated

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now employs millions of youths

who can

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can work hard, save 300shs in phone or bank, can be able to borrow loan and buy a taxi, build a houses, take kids to schools..and basically live life like a middle class..
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2016, 06:02:54 PM »
Moonki,
You're a comedian. By services I mean modern services.Do I have define everything. Boss this is not law.We are talking economics here. So we are agreed that kenya FORMAL services are doing good. Now lets focus on the informal sector.  Informal sector include informal manufacturing (Jua Kali dude making sufuria) and Boda boda (providing transport services)...and of course the bulk of farmers...who nobody knows what they produce.

Let recap the kenya formal economy
10% - Manufacturing
30% - Agri & related -employment 60%
Services (retail,financial,gov,social, etc) -60%.

Then Informal sector - this include informal agri, manufacturing and services - black market - nobody knows what they are doing -although 12m or about of kenyan are this sector. Their economic contribution can only be inferred say from consumption date (cement, beer, fuel)...so they are captured.

Our economic assignment is to move these guys in the shadows to formal sector...move the jua kali guy sweating by the roadside to cottage industry and eventually MNC? move the boda boda guy to uber-tax paying citizen earning decent salary, move matatu tout to own his own matatu and eventually transport or logistic company, move mama duka from his duka to supermarket. It mean doesn't every of these guys will become business owners. Nope it simply mean we formalize those sectors. Some boda boda guys will become taxi drivers while others will become taxi owners. Formalize this sector to SMEs as you have in developed world.

All we need is to bring them from their shadows, make them tax paying, have them earning well to sustain a middle class lifestyle, have medical insurances, have bank accounts, be able to access credit facilities, joined nssf or some pension fund, nhif, the works and generally be as any one employed in any company.

You ask how can we do that without following the touted model. They ought to be employed by some large MNC stitching shoes and doing mundane stuff, but getting regular salaries, paying taxes, getting bank accounts,being in the systems. having some pensions and some housing. This is how South Korea or Asian tiger or China or name them moved people....from peasant or jua kali...to slavish formal jobs as factory workers..then eventually to decent jobs...and eventually to service jobs (deploying capital & brains instead of labour&muscles).

Now you ask how kenya can skip all this. And I answer already kenya has taken steps to skip this.

Kenya for it's level of  development now has 1.5 bank accounts for every person. Kenya has more than 50m bank accounts. The maasai herder is bring brought to the system. We can tell what he earns. This is unprecedented. It probably too you south korea or china several years of manufacturing things to get at that level. We are learning that these guys are actually making money than formal employee with education as the denominator.Kenya the last 10yrs has shown that innovation...you can easily bridge the gap. 10yrs ago...kenya as whole had maybe 1m bank account..held by the moneyed and educated...now everyone has 1 and half bank account.


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2016, 06:32:27 PM »
Juakali guy in Gikomba (roadside) has to move to Kariobangi(backstreet) Industries (Cottage -call it semi-formal) then eventually move to warehouse in Industrial area (formal) then he expands to UG/TZ/(MNC) with recognised Sufuria brand. Jua kali guy in gikomba is one dude, when he moves to Kariobangi he will employ spouse and maybe kids to sell stuff, then eventually when he moves the ladder he will even employ me as IT guy. For that to happen he'll need brains (skills, education,), capital (loan & partners) and of course an expanding economy. Kenya is providing all that...education investment compared to GDP is astounding...capital from banks is getting there (see how much private individual borrowed this yr)..and economy is expanding. So our Jua Kali is moving pretty fast to good life...and he doesn't have to go to Ethiopia..to earn 80shs per day...when he can make 400-1000shs per day forging Sufurias.
Do I have define everything.

In your case, alas, yes.    For example, you write that:

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Our economic assignment is to move these guys in the shadows to formal sector...move the jua kali guy sweating by the roadside to cottage industry and eventually MNC.


Taking a typical definition of "cottage industry":

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1. an industry whose labor force consists of family units or individuals working at home with their own equipment

2. a small and often informally organized industry

how exactly would the "move" help jua-kali types to "eventually MNC"?

By the way, I'm still keen to learn more of Samsung's design office in Nairobi.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2016, 06:42:34 PM »
As for samsung (or it techno) design office - they are a dozen in Nairobi - including IBM - who recognise the excellent graduates we produce here - and have moved research hubs here.

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2016, 06:46:06 PM »
As for samsung (or it techno) design office - they are a dozen in Nairobi - including IBM - who recognise the excellent graduates we produce here - and have moved research hubs here.

What I asked: Where is it located?   What is being designed there?

As for the "dozen in Nairobi": what sort of employee numbers do they have?
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #97 on: September 21, 2016, 06:47:55 PM »
Phones.Smartphones.Mostly for Africa. Why wouldn't engineering designer not work from Nairobi designing a phone for Africa...which is HUGE market. Or you think they have to be in Seoul. Boss Nairobi is as good as Seoul for phone designer...and it even greater if you're interested in Africa.

They are not locating this in Ethiopia even if they grovel..coz they lack fundamentos :) as Ken Maria sang.,..such as well educated english speaking country with working services (such as ordering a pizza) and of course hospitality & hotel industry that is world class.

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What I asked: Where is it located?   What is being designed there?

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #98 on: September 21, 2016, 06:54:16 PM »
Phones.Smartphones.Mostly for Africa. Why wouldn't engineering designer not work from Nairobi designing a phone for Africa...which is HUGE market. Or you think they have to be in Seoul. Boss Nairobi is as good as Seoul for phone designer...and it even greater if you're interested in Africa.
What I asked: Where is it located?   What is being designed there?

Sounds good.   Let's start with Samsung in Nairobi, which is what you started with and which is what I specifically asked about: Where exactly can I find real information on that?      If you tell me where they located, for example, then I can make enquiries as to what exactly is being done there.
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Dr Ndii on Kenya bellycrats pervasive incompetence
« Reply #99 on: September 21, 2016, 07:01:40 PM »
No idea. Google it. They last I was interested they were hawking some mobile operating system for building apps...which they abandoned..for Android. You' think you can re-connect with some korean girl there? :)