Author Topic: about Scandinavia progress  (Read 8375 times)

Offline RVtitem

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about Scandinavia progress
« on: July 21, 2016, 05:31:21 PM »
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2012/01/26/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-power-1-percent

Offline Empedocles

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2016, 06:54:52 PM »
Interesting article.

Would be difficult to emulate in Kenya. The Swedes and Norwegians correctly identified the culprits (the 1%) and went after them.

Our 1% are more ingenious. They've brainwashed us to believe that only and only when our tribal leader is in charge and eating, things will turn for the better. So wanainchi are constantly at loggerheads with one other, trying to make sure their chosen one either sits at the top or as close as possible.

Being homogeneous most certainly played a very decisive role for the Swedes and Norwegians.

Offline veritas

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 08:11:51 PM »
Sweden is a monarchy with a puppet regime/democracy like lots of Northernish European countries. Far from being a full fledged pluralist democracy. Monarchies maintain the peace and that's why when countries attack they go for the royal bloodline. Demolishing that is a fast track to globalizing a capitalist driven pluralism over a bedrock of bloody democracy. This is something conspiracy theorists refer to as the Zionist agenda because the Jews don't have a homeland etc. The birth pangs of democracy are bloody. No true democracy can be born out of peace. Even Kenya in that respects has achieved more milestones in laying down her democratic foundation.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 08:53:42 PM »
The Swedes, Germans, etc are an outstanding lot compared to say US. Locally Kenya is quite ahead of Ug where their Matiba (Besigye) is still in Nyayo House. Democracy is almost meaningless for us until now maybe. With youth and women funds, etc... now I see chiefs dishing out cash to old people. Inklings of a welfare state.

US has many entitlements like jobless claims but still too much inequality.

Sweden is a monarchy with a puppet regime/democracy like lots of Northernish European countries. Far from being a full fledged pluralist democracy. Monarchies maintain the peace and that's why when countries attack they go for the royal bloodline. Demolishing that is a fast track to globalizing a capitalist driven pluralism over a bedrock of bloody democracy. This is something conspiracy theorists refer to as the Zionist agenda because the Jews don't have a homeland etc. The birth pangs of democracy are bloody. No true democracy can be born out of peace. Even Kenya in that respects has achieved more milestones in laying down her democratic foundation.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2016, 09:34:30 PM »
Robina,
How can you compare Kenya to Uganda?
I would rather South Korea etc..

The Swedes, Germans, etc are an outstanding lot compared to say US. Locally Kenya is quite ahead of Ug where their Matiba (Besigye) is still in Nyayo House. Democracy is almost meaningless for us until now maybe. With youth and women funds, etc... now I see chiefs dishing out cash to old people. Inklings of a welfare state.

US has many entitlements like jobless claims but still too much inequality.

Sweden is a monarchy with a puppet regime/democracy like lots of Northernish European countries. Far from being a full fledged pluralist democracy. Monarchies maintain the peace and that's why when countries attack they go for the royal bloodline. Demolishing that is a fast track to globalizing a capitalist driven pluralism over a bedrock of bloody democracy. This is something conspiracy theorists refer to as the Zionist agenda because the Jews don't have a homeland etc. The birth pangs of democracy are bloody. No true democracy can be born out of peace. Even Kenya in that respects has achieved more milestones in laying down her democratic foundation.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2016, 10:06:20 PM »
We are talking state vs socioeconomic systems. Kenya is advancing in freedoms and democracy while Uganda is in diapers. Due to peanut economy, democracy is freedom to breathe, move and run a kiosk. No meaningful entitlements. Economic takeoff is what will make people enjoy freedom and democracy. For now we have "free" peasants and slum dwellers.


Robina,
How can you compare Kenya to Uganda?
I would rather South Korea etc..

The Swedes, Germans, etc are an outstanding lot compared to say US. Locally Kenya is quite ahead of Ug where their Matiba (Besigye) is still in Nyayo House. Democracy is almost meaningless for us until now maybe. With youth and women funds, etc... now I see chiefs dishing out cash to old people. Inklings of a welfare state.

US has many entitlements like jobless claims but still too much inequality.

Sweden is a monarchy with a puppet regime/democracy like lots of Northernish European countries. Far from being a full fledged pluralist democracy. Monarchies maintain the peace and that's why when countries attack they go for the royal bloodline. Demolishing that is a fast track to globalizing a capitalist driven pluralism over a bedrock of bloody democracy. This is something conspiracy theorists refer to as the Zionist agenda because the Jews don't have a homeland etc. The birth pangs of democracy are bloody. No true democracy can be born out of peace. Even Kenya in that respects has achieved more milestones in laying down her democratic foundation.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RVtitem

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2016, 11:07:20 PM »
kenya is no different from uganda in terms of overall poverty and socioeconomic progress...only that kenya has a few more millionaires.

One thing that stands out with those northerly countries is their embrace of consensus and shun of outliers so that majority win.

Their homogeneous populations also might be giving them advantage.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2016, 11:53:58 PM »
RVtitem,

Do you find it fantastic that while Trump and Clinton have squared off for a year and are still far from rest, it took just a week or so of Tory leadership contest for the UK to pick a new prime minister? It totally fits your statement that the crown is always in charge with an icing democracy.

I rather like Theresa May. Such flow, such cool. Just like Angela.

♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Empedocles

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2016, 10:20:06 AM »
RVtitem,

Do you find it fantastic that while Trump and Clinton have squared off for a year and are still far from rest, it took just a week or so of Tory leadership contest for the UK to pick a new prime minister? It totally fits your statement that the crown is always in charge with an icing democracy.

I rather like Theresa May. Such flow, such cool. Just like Angela.

Interestingly enough, presidential systems such as we have in Kenya have historically had a much higher failure rate than parliamentary systems (the US of A is an exception...for now).

Offline veritas

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 12:50:57 PM »
Individually Swedes, Germans, Japanese seem lovely and altruistic. Collectively, they're immoral, and they've committed the biggest genocide in history (Germans, Japs) and colonized other countries (Sweden). I can't say they're politics and sense of civic duty today is enviable and spectacular compared to Kenya or Korea or America because they can get on their altruistic high horse on the basis of amassing wealth from raping other countries historically.

Americans individually are obnoxious and unpleasant but collectively they deserve to be the superpower. Yes they plunder oil to make world economies work, but let me reiterate, WORLD economies, not just for selfish me Russia, Germany, Sweden, Japan, European Union. The types of global initiatives America has established towards "world peace" is a continuation of it's duty to honor their history. I've seen how these initiatives have changed the world. That isn't something the Swedes, Germans or the Japanese can reflect on, whereas Kenya or America can. In 50 or so years, I can honestly say Kenya will be a greener, richer, sustainable city enjoying the liberties and democracy fought so hard by those today and yesterday. Whereas countries peaking today on the backs of committing atrocities and stolen wealth will have their day of reckoning.

The Swedes, Germans, etc are an outstanding lot compared to say US. Locally Kenya is quite ahead of Ug where their Matiba (Besigye) is still in Nyayo House. Democracy is almost meaningless for us until now maybe. With youth and women funds, etc... now I see chiefs dishing out cash to old people. Inklings of a welfare state.

US has many entitlements like jobless claims but still too much inequality.

Sweden is a monarchy with a puppet regime/democracy like lots of Northernish European countries. Far from being a full fledged pluralist democracy. Monarchies maintain the peace and that's why when countries attack they go for the royal bloodline. Demolishing that is a fast track to globalizing a capitalist driven pluralism over a bedrock of bloody democracy. This is something conspiracy theorists refer to as the Zionist agenda because the Jews don't have a homeland etc. The birth pangs of democracy are bloody. No true democracy can be born out of peace. Even Kenya in that respects has achieved more milestones in laying down her democratic foundation.

Offline veritas

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2016, 01:02:18 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if the Swedes resort to reintroducing slavery policies: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/658709/sweden-breaking-point-migrant-crisis-pushing-scandinavian-to-the-edge
Quote

It's only 2% that's hardly much for gentrification.

Quote
Sweden, with a population of 9.5million, annually received over 160,000 asylum applications and the country is expected to take as many as 190,000 refugees, or two per cent of the population, in 2016.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2016, 05:44:02 PM »
In 50 years I think East Asia (the Orient) will be back to the top as they were in the past before tumbling. US & Europe (the West) have had a short stay at the top of the world, they are on the downward trend now. Africans & Arabs (the Middle world) are nearing proper economic development for the first time.

It's the civilization spiral of our world. The Chinese committed undocumented atrocities in their previous reign. The US had slavery and is presently looking inwards to rejuvenate. Europe colonized us but presently going inwards (EU unravel, Brexit). One hopes Africa and Arabia will rise to the occasion and resist fresh colonization.

Neocolonialism: Oil wars in ME (US); human capital theft (US green cards); capital flight (US/UK tax, loot havens); mineral & material scraping (Chinese).

Individually Swedes, Germans, Japanese seem lovely and altruistic. Collectively, they're immoral, and they've committed the biggest genocide in history (Germans, Japs) and colonized other countries (Sweden). I can't say they're politics and sense of civic duty today is enviable and spectacular compared to Kenya or Korea or America because they can get on their altruistic high horse on the basis of amassing wealth from raping other countries historically.

Americans individually are obnoxious and unpleasant but collectively they deserve to be the superpower. Yes they plunder oil to make world economies work, but let me reiterate, WORLD economies, not just for selfish me Russia, Germany, Sweden, Japan, European Union. The types of global initiatives America has established towards "world peace" is a continuation of it's duty to honor their history. I've seen how these initiatives have changed the world. That isn't something the Swedes, Germans or the Japanese can reflect on, whereas Kenya or America can. In 50 or so years, I can honestly say Kenya will be a greener, richer, sustainable city enjoying the liberties and democracy fought so hard by those today and yesterday. Whereas countries peaking today on the backs of committing atrocities and stolen wealth will have their day of reckoning.

♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Empedocles

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2016, 06:16:02 PM »
In 50 years I think East Asia (the Orient) will be back to the top as they were in the past before tumbling. US & Europe (the West) have had a short stay at the top of the world, they are on the downward trend now. Africans & Arabs (the Middle world) are nearing proper economic development for the first time.

It's the civilization spiral of our world. The Chinese committed undocumented atrocities in their previous reign. The US had slavery and is presently looking inwards to rejuvenate. Europe colonized us but presently going inwards (EU unravel, Brexit). One hopes Africa and Arabia will rise to the occasion and resist fresh colonization.

Neocolonialism: Oil wars in ME (US); human capital theft (US green cards); capital flight (US/UK tax, loot havens); mineral & material scraping (Chinese).

What are the steps currently being taken by Africa and Arabia towards this goal?

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2016, 06:49:26 PM »
In 50 years I think East Asia (the Orient) will be back to the top as they were in the past before tumbling. US & Europe (the West) have had a short stay at the top of the world, they are on the downward trend now. Africans & Arabs (the Middle world) are nearing proper economic development for the first time.

It's the civilization spiral of our world. The Chinese committed undocumented atrocities in their previous reign. The US had slavery and is presently looking inwards to rejuvenate. Europe colonized us but presently going inwards (EU unravel, Brexit). One hopes Africa and Arabia will rise to the occasion and resist fresh colonization.

Neocolonialism: Oil wars in ME (US); human capital theft (US green cards); capital flight (US/UK tax, loot havens); mineral & material scraping (Chinese).

What are the steps currently being taken by Africa and Arabia towards this goal?

Outside of the Daesh Levant Arabia has ridden the oil boom to achieve a fairly good life for theirselves. The west has employed the Shiite-Sunni-Kurd divide to sabotage and milk them dry.

The African "rising" is a payoff of the commodity boom. The west utilizes manpower theft (green cards) and financial theft (havens) to reap us off; the Chinese have been scraping raw materials for their factories.

It is not a smart strategy (or "steps") but a byproduct of the state of the world that is helping Africa. For instance East-West competition ensures good offers and PR from both in our dealings. Weakness is strength - a popular maxim.


♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2016, 08:13:13 PM »
The African "rising" is a payoff of the commodity boom. The west utilizes manpower theft (green cards) and financial theft (havens) to reap us off; the Chinese have been scraping raw materials for their factories.

It is not a smart strategy (or "steps") but a byproduct of the state of the world that is helping Africa.

Africa should be taking steps, not waiting for accidental byproducts.

The latest "commodities boom" was just another peak in the same sort of exploitation that we have submitted ourselves to for the last 50+ years.   Not only is it now over, but it will turn out that it did not do much for Africa: many borrowed on the assumptions that prices would remain the same or increase, and falling prices can mean only plenty of pain.

A couple of interesting articles that I got last week from an economist friend:

Quote
Africa comes to the end of its commodities boom

The decline in world commodity prices has taken with it African economic growth rates. This shows the need for African nations to pursue industrialisation
http://www.worldfinance.com/markets/africa-comes-to-the-end-of-its-commodities-boom

and

Quote
End of commodities boom hits African countries
http://www.miningweekly.com/article/the-end-of-the-commodities-boom-hits-africa-2016-05-13/rep_id:3650

We shall remain in deep sh*t as long as we continue to do what we have always done: get stuff out of the ground, sell it to strangers, spend more in buying back "value-added" products.

Consider these two cases:

(1) Nigeria is a leading exporter of crude oil.   But it spends billions of dollars in buying refined oil, and petrol queues in Nigerian cities are something else.

(2) Singapore doesn't produce a single drop of oil but each year exports $50-60 billion (more than the GDP of most African countries, including Kenya) of refined oil: it buys crude oil, refines it, sells back to the producers.

Red:  Last night I attended an "African networking" event where I live; we have these regularly to work out ways to help each other, especially given unfriendly attitudes toward any sort of dark skin.    In one group, I listened to all sorts of complaints against the West, heard stories of Africa Rising, etc.    I asked them this question: All of you are intelligent, educated, and accomplished professionals.   So why aren't you back there?   

That proved to be an awkward question, because numerous introductions before that had consisted of "when did you move here"?,  "why?", etc.     The answers were the usual stories: dictator gone mad, lack of opportunities as a result of lack of anything resembling meritocracy (tribe etc. being key), and so on.   

People are fleeing, by plane or boat or whatever, with many literally dying in the process.   So, manpower theft?   That's almost like complaining that someone stole the rubbish that was put out for the garbage-collector.     On the contrary, one of the things I most admire of the US----and why I believe it will be No. 1 for a long time---is its brilliant schemes for self-rejuvenation: in addition to schemes that welcome the "best and brightest", there are  schemes (Diversity Visa aka Green-Card Lottery) that simply recognize that a mixed, bubbling pot is actually good, etc.

Blue: I'll skip the standard bit of how our own "leaders" (sometimes elected!) are busy looting and stashing overseas.    That's because a greater part of the heist is actually multinational companies illegally siphoning off money.  And they can do that because of lax laws, corruption, etc. 

A person is repeatedly careless with his wallet in a dodgy nightclub.   He certainly does have a right to keep complaining about the fact that it always gets stolen---after all, theft is illegal---but if he really wants a solution ....?

Green: I spend quite a bit of "professional time" in China.   They have nothing but contempt for us---they think we are lazy, clueless, and completely unable to make any use of our natural resources----and I am always puzzled by this idea that China is somehow better for Africa than the West.   

If a sheep volunteers to be shorn, should it then complain that it feels cold at night?

It's a bad world out there.  We can, should, and must complain about how we are getting shafted.   But we must also look how we facilitate that and what we need to change.     
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 09:33:45 PM »
MOON Ki,

You make correct points.

It is well known the African does not have the energy and efficiency of the white man or the Chinese. Because of this we depend on luck, nature and foreign help first, followed by basic agriculture and mining. We have beat to death on here the horse of smart manufacturing, food processing or value addition industry and built a consensus of our sorry situation.

You are right: it is rape notwithstanding that the woman dressed provocatively, neither screamed nor sprayed pepper or outrightly "asked for it"  :)

The reason it is Africa "Rising" with a quotation is the comical reality of the situation. The third world needs hope and God before any objective strategy can work. Our development is a byproduct of happenings elsewhere. It would be great to have actual plans but the proceedings and statistics at the UNCTAD14 conference were gleam. I just don't see it.


♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 09:45:31 PM »
I am sure Pundit would say something about UN SDGs or Africa Vision 2063 as planning. It is also hope. I read about the robber barons that built the US infrastructure and industry - Henry Ford, Andrew Canergie, Rockefeller, etc and wow at their thrift. Some have termed as "positive terrorism" their severe mental fiat and sheer scale. Such is what built the west. If you check the chronology of inventions you will see Europeans, Americans and non-Africans only.

To quote a certain politician, kwani sisi tulitukana Mungu?



♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Empedocles

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 11:44:12 PM »
I am sure Pundit would say something about UN SDGs or Africa Vision 2063 as planning. It is also hope. I read about the robber barons that built the US infrastructure and industry - Henry Ford, Andrew Canergie, Rockefeller, etc and wow at their thrift. Some have termed as "positive terrorism" their severe mental fiat and sheer scale. Such is what built the west. If you check the chronology of inventions you will see Europeans, Americans and non-Africans only.

To quote a certain politician, kwani sisi tulitukana Mungu?

Oof, that's cold.

For starters:

Top 10 Inventions by African-Americans

Famous Black Inventors

THE BLACK INVENTOR ONLINE MUSEUM


Offline MOON Ki

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2016, 01:32:19 AM »
Robina:

I got the earlier "quotation" points, but it seems you have forgotten them here:

It is well known the African does not have the energy and efficiency of the white man or the Chinese.

The only thing Mwafrika lacks is good leadership.     I'm sure you've seen the photos posted here of huge crowds gathered to cheer their "our man".  (The other side is similarly "capable".)    We've also seen them eating police violence while protesting "unfair" election boards.    But how many have we ever seen out complaining about yet another huge corruption scandal or anything else they claim affects them on a daily basis?  Empedocles was right on the mark on what our 1% has sold us.

Quote
It would be great to have actual plans but the proceedings and statistics at the UNCTAD14 conference

I'm sure CS Amina Mohamed will say that this one, like the WTO conference before it, this was a great success.    Shows that Kenya (and, by extension, Africa) has arrived. 

Quote
I am sure Pundit would say something about UN SDGs or Africa Vision 2063 as planning.

We have never been short of "visions"; in fact today's vision types can't compare with the ones we had at independence---Nkrumah.   

And if our "leaders" are to be believed, there has this week been tremendous progress on  Vision 2063: the African Union will now be issuing "union" passports, just like that mzungu union.  Even the cover is red, just like theirs.  There, we too can do it.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/20/486640594/africa-unveils-all-africa-passport-but-so-far-only-2-people-have-one

Would it have helped to first work out the necessary legislation in each country?   Would it have helped to first see how it would work on a regional level?      The AU says that it will now proceed with a "pilot" test: issuing the passport all AU heads of state.   Did someone just redefine the meaning and purpose of a "pilot" test?   Is it realistic to say  that all Africans will have it by 2018?

That I don't know the answers to such questions goes some way in explaining why I'm not raking in big bucks as a diplomat.
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: about Scandinavia progress
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2016, 08:56:33 AM »
Wallow in your own self-pity. There is nothing wrong with Africans. There is certainly no GOD. Africans are doing incredibly well. Sub-sahara African latest growth that you call "commodity fueled" is not true. Ethiopia and many of growing economies including Kenya don't sell an ounce of crude or minerals. Sub-sahara African were isolated from the advancement in the rest of the world by vastness of it's land and has just about started integrating to the world economy. Africa is doing fine. Not only economically. But politically and socially too -there is lot of advancement.

If you cannot see Africa rise; then you're blind. That doesn't mean Africa will suddenly transform into a manufacturing power.


I am sure Pundit would say something about UN SDGs or Africa Vision 2063 as planning. It is also hope. I read about the robber barons that built the US infrastructure and industry - Henry Ford, Andrew Canergie, Rockefeller, etc and wow at their thrift. Some have termed as "positive terrorism" their severe mental fiat and sheer scale. Such is what built the west. If you check the chronology of inventions you will see Europeans, Americans and non-Africans only.

To quote a certain politician, kwani sisi tulitukana Mungu?