Author Topic: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022  (Read 16277 times)

Offline Simanova

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Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« on: June 26, 2016, 01:12:53 PM »
Take it to the bank Pundit

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Kikuyu community promising to back William Ruto is based on fear he could dump Uhuru Kenyatta in 2017. ~Nominated Senator Paul Njoroge

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 02:03:41 PM »
No problem. We shall surely wait for that to unfold. In meantime Ruto is busy building the largest party in kenya that would eclipse ODM by far and would be as powerful as KANU of 80s. That party is Jubilee that will see 13 parties collapsed. That is nice 2022 launch pad. If Kikuyus will want to pull out of Jubilee then...that would be their decision. At the same time Ruto is running up and down the country like Moi reloaded...in short read Dan Moi playbook and you'll understand Ruto gameplan.

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 03:17:59 PM »
Pundit

can it get clearer than that? I will post the video once I obtain it.

Quote



Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2016, 03:31:39 PM »
Political party? JAP is a government run party. It will, like KANU, PNU and GNU not survive the exit of Uhuru. You know it. Plus I do not believe it has any chance of beating ODM and CORD.

That Dan Moi plan is exactly what the Kikuyus have read and have been using since Kibaki came to power. Wamalwa died of AIDS? C'mon who dies of AIDS with such money? Awori survived how many helicopter crashes? The last one he went to Kibaki and told him to tell his dos he is retiring. GEMA took no chances... Dr. Otuma could have swam in money is that was possible. Awori had to go.

Kalonzo guys... need I say more? When we ask them about him (even you are on record asking what he did wrong), they say he did not go to central on his own to connect with Kikuyus (LYING Energizer) - like Moi ever did. They are simply bereft of excuses.

All this is simple, they can never allow a VP / DP serve two terms or 12 years. They recon after that atawashinda.

Ruto is running around the country because the Kikuyus want assurances he will support them for 2017 and then they will dump him, in the now unlikely event that they win . His going around the country does not refute the stance by the loud mouthed Kikuyus. The opinion they are expressing is more widespread than you think. They believe they have a fool and nobody should wake him up.

No problem. We shall surely wait for that to unfold. In meantime Ruto is busy building the largest party in kenya that would eclipse ODM by far and would be as powerful as KANU of 80s. That party is Jubilee that will see 13 parties collapsed. That is nice 2022 launch pad. If Kikuyus will want to pull out of Jubilee then...that would be their decision. At the same time Ruto is running up and down the country like Moi reloaded...in short read Dan Moi playbook and you'll understand Ruto gameplan.

Offline yulemsee

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 06:09:44 PM »
This strategy is a waste of time if you ask me, it won't change the course Ruto intends to steer his ship nor will it swing some Rift Valley votes towards ODM.
 Say you are a prophet and you can read what will happen in 2022, and for sure Kikuyu's will do a no. on Ruto, what options does Ruto have in 2017? Go under babu's wings and as promised babu will only be a one termer , run alone or run as DP and retain the status quo? Ruto in his own words has described the first two options as "karata ya pata potea"

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 06:19:59 PM »
Yule Musee

I believe the subject / heading captures the views of Senator Paul Njoroge. He has not denied the same, has he? The subject also reflects the views expressed publicly and attributed to Governor William Kabogo. He has not recanted the views but tried to smear over them and fudge the fallout.

I believe the same subject reflects and even clearer message from Governor Munya.

Ruto has the option of running alone, coming second and then challenging the Kikuyus to choose between him and Raila. I see close to 1.7 spoilt votes in the Raila- Ruto runoff.


This strategy is a waste of time if you ask me, it won't change the course Ruto intends to steer his ship nor will it swing some Rift Valley votes towards ODM.
 Say you are a prophet and you can read what will happen in 2022, and for sure Kikuyu's will do a no. on Ruto, what options does Ruto have in 2017? Go under babu's wings and as promised babu will only be a one termer , run alone or run as DP and retain the status quo? Ruto in his own words has described the first two options as "karata ya pata potea"

Offline yulemsee

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2016, 08:27:25 PM »
Yule Musee

I believe the subject / heading captures the views of Senator Paul Njoroge. He has not denied the same, has he? The subject also reflects the views expressed publicly and attributed to Governor William Kabogo. He has not recanted the views but tried to smear over them and fudge the fallout.

I believe the same subject reflects and even clearer message from Governor Munya.

Ruto has the option of running alone, coming second and then challenging the Kikuyus to choose between him and Raila. I see close to 1.7 spoilt votes in the Raila- Ruto runoff.


This strategy is a waste of time if you ask me, it won't change the course Ruto intends to steer his ship nor will it swing some Rift Valley votes towards ODM.
 Say you are a prophet and you can read what will happen in 2022, and for sure Kikuyu's will do a no. on Ruto, what options does Ruto have in 2017? Go under babu's wings and as promised babu will only be a one termer , run alone or run as DP and retain the status quo? Ruto in his own words has described the first two options as "karata ya pata potea"
If he runs, he will become no. 3, Rift Valley votes minus Transzoia, Nakuru and Laikipia + North Eastern cannot get one to no. 2.
What's your take on Raila offering Ruto the DP spot and promising to be a one termer, does he want to do a Kalonzo on Ruto too?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 09:17:28 AM »
YuleMzee that is right. Ruto best plan for 2017 is to continue with 50-50 with Uhuru, build a strong umbrella jubilee party, use power & patronage to build a strong case, make GEMA stick to their words by projecting strength--not weakness like Kalonzo- and go for it in 2022 with that party.

I see people who are worried about Ruto 2022....while IPOS synovate is saying Raila will be beaten like a drum with 58% versus 32. Worry about 2017. Ruto has 2022 covered. I have studied Ruto rise in politics keenly since 2001....as first time MP..and there is no doubt he is brilliant strategist.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/06/27/uhuru-widens-gap-over-raila-ipsos-poll-shows_c1375854?page=0%2C1

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 04:46:13 PM »
I thought you are better than that. How can you possibly believe the IPOS crap.

Ruto is doing all those things you are suggesting. The problem is that Kikuyus do not plan to support him. Being strong and not weak like Kalonzo will not in any way compel Kikuyus to vote for Ruto.

I was busy the other day and let the Moi analogy pass. I was later laughing wondering how a bright mind like you can use such an analogy knowing there is no similarity.

For Ruto to be Moi, Kenya would first have to shrink the political space in to a mon party dictatorship characterized by political intimidation and run as a pure police state. That was the situation under which Moi inherited power. Just like Ngei had said before, having Presidential powers for only two hours is enough for him to stay for two and a half decades. It happened.

As soon as Kikuyus allowed Moi to be sworn in and wield Presidential powers it was a done deal. The rest of the campaign election, etc were mere games. It ended on that August 22nd Day when Moi took the oath.

Even if Uhuru resigns and gives Ruto those powers, we shall still hold free and fair elections (your words) in which Kikuyus will be free to vote as they wish. Incumbency is no guarantee against loss. There are many examples lately in Africa where incumbents have lost:

1. Banda of Zambia
2. Banda of Malawi
3. Jonathan of Nigeria


YuleMzee that is right. Ruto best plan for 2017 is to continue with 50-50 with Uhuru, build a strong umbrella jubilee party, use power & patronage to build a strong case, make GEMA stick to their words by projecting strength--not weakness like Kalonzo- and go for it in 2022 with that party.

I see people who are worried about Ruto 2022....while IPOS synovate is saying Raila will be beaten like a drum with 58% versus 32. Worry about 2017. Ruto has 2022 covered. I have studied Ruto rise in politics keenly since 2001....as first time MP..and there is no doubt he is brilliant strategist.

http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2016/06/27/uhuru-widens-gap-over-raila-ipsos-poll-shows_c1375854?page=0%2C1

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2016, 05:06:08 PM »
No problem. We shall surely wait for that to unfold. In meantime Ruto is busy building the largest party in kenya that would eclipse ODM by far and would be as powerful as KANU of 80s. That party is Jubilee that will see 13 parties collapsed. That is nice 2022 launch pad. If Kikuyus will want to pull out of Jubilee then...that would be their decision. At the same time Ruto is running up and down the country like Moi reloaded...in short read Dan Moi playbook and you'll understand Ruto gameplan.
The Moi game plan was to hang on until Kenyatta died.  Ruto could get in that way.  His best bet is Uhuru dying in office.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2016, 05:10:18 PM »
Of course.Which is why he is better sticking with Uhuru...just in case he drops dead :) and he get in without doing anything. What you're missing though is the fact that Moi was not just sitting there waiting day and night for Kenyatta to die --he was actually busy touring the country and building his supports -- the kikuyu elites might have entertained upstaging moi --but Moi in 1978 was very popular man with the country behind him.

Moi never became popular by sleeping around waiting ... he built his popularity while staying 100% loyal to his boss...something Ruto is doing.

The Moi game plan was to hang on until Kenyatta died.  Ruto could get in that way.  His best bet is Uhuru dying in office.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2016, 05:19:07 PM »
Of course.Which is why he is better sticking with Uhuru...just in case he drops dead and he get in without doing anything. What you're missing though is the fact that Moi was not just sitting there waiting day and night for Kenyatta to die --he was actually busy touring the country and building his supports -- the kikuyu elites might have entertained upstaging moi --but Moi in 1978 was very popular man with the country behind him.
The Moi game plan was to hang on until Kenyatta died.  Ruto could get in that way.  His best bet is Uhuru dying in office.
Yep.  Because, after kamwana, everything goes back to square one.  We (should) know he won't inherit the GEMA base.  Yet that is his best bet.  Will he get Luos?  Luhyas?  Kambas?  Coast?

I think 2022 is wide open.  It will take someone with greater national appeal than Ruto to win it all.

"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2016, 05:25:54 PM »
I think Synovate here are on point. Uhuru has added more votes to his 2012 baskets. They were running as ICC indictee with scare mongering from everyone including Obama but managed to ran a good campaign.

Ruto will work with what he has. I don't know who the kikuyus are planning to support in 2022 but I know right now most GEMA mps are fighting to become Ruto's DP. I also know Ruto has the genuine support and friendship of Uhuru -- who is the undisputed leader of GEMA. That is good base to start.

Again at the risk of repeating myself. Ruto plan A is that Uhuru and GEMA will support him. In case they don't support him --his plan B is to retain most of Jubilee support and make coalition with another strong party. GEMA will also need to make another pact. Nobody can do it alone. Every of the big tribes and few second tier tribes will all be looking to make deals and alliances.

So far all we hear is the same BULLSHIET we heard prior to 2013 that Kikuyu and Kalenjin will not vote in the same basket immediately after PEV. That never panned out as planned. The tatulogy has now morphed into Kikuyus are planning not to support Ruto....and we have evidence of two people...while ignoring evidence of 98 others who have endorsed Ruto.

All we hear are guys who clearly don't like Ruto trying to advice him on what is the best for him. The advice is the rocket science of kikuyus will not support you. Like they've gone to 2022 and came back.

I thought you are better than that. How can you possibly believe the IPOS crap.

Ruto is doing all those things you are suggesting. The problem is that Kikuyus do not plan to support him. Being strong and not weak like Kalonzo will not in any way compel Kikuyus to vote for Ruto.

I was busy the other day and let the Moi analogy pass. I was later laughing wondering how a bright mind like you can use such an analogy knowing there is no similarity.

For Ruto to be Moi, Kenya would first have to shrink the political space in to a mon party dictatorship characterized by political intimidation and run as a pure police state. That was the situation under which Moi inherited power. Just like Ngei had said before, having Presidential powers for only two hours is enough for him to stay for two and a half decades. It happened.

As soon as Kikuyus allowed Moi to be sworn in and wield Presidential powers it was a done deal. The rest of the campaign election, etc were mere games. It ended on that August 22nd Day when Moi took the oath.

Even if Uhuru resigns and gives Ruto those powers, we shall still hold free and fair elections (your words) in which Kikuyus will be free to vote as they wish. Incumbency is no guarantee against loss. There are many examples lately in Africa where incumbents have lost:

1. Banda of Zambia
2. Banda of Malawi
3. Jonathan of Nigeria


Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2016, 05:30:31 PM »
Here we go with shifting goal posts. So according to you Uhuru has more national appeal than Ruto? He had more national appeal in 2002? and in 2013? Kibaki had more national appeal? Or Raila who won Luo vote only in 97? has more national appeal? What is the national appeal anyway?

The guy who win in Kenya is the guy who manages to amaze the largest tribal alliance. If that is national appeal --there you got it.

The guys who "hate" Ruto are doing so for political reasons. There was a time every kikuyu would wake up and say Ruto was dead man walking. He has been walking dead ever. Ruto never wasted time with the nonsense but got to himself busy at job at Kilimo and Higher Education...at end of the day...he was admired as the most hardworking minister. Now it Luos turn to "hate" Ruto. And the reason is obvious...Ruto has essentially made Raila politically irrelevant.

Ruto will most likely win 2022 because he is most brilliant, gifted, eloquent and most hardworking politician at his level. Ruto is by far the youngest..just turned 50...and will be around for a very long time...and every year he is just getting better. In 2022...it will be obvious there won't be any competition. Ruto is not sitting there waiting to be made PORK...he is there making himself
 the only choice for 2012.

I think 2022 is wide open.  It will take someone with greater national appeal than Ruto to win it all.

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2016, 05:42:01 PM »
Here we go with shifting goal posts. So according to you Uhuru has more national appeal than Ruto? He had more national appeal in 2002? and in 2013? Kibaki had more national appeal? Or Raila who won Luo vote only in 97? has more national appeal? What is the national appeal anyway?

The guy who win in Kenya is the guy who manages to amaze the largest tribal alliance. If that is national appeal --there you got it.

The guys who "hate" Ruto are doing so for political reasons. There was a time every kikuyu would wake up and say Ruto was dead man walking. He has been walking dead ever. Ruto never wasted time but got to him job at Kilimo and HQ...at end of the day...he was admired as the most hardworking ministers. Now it Luos turn to "hate" Ruto. And the reason is obvious...Ruto has essentially made Raila politically irrelevant.

Ruto will most likely win 2022 because he is most brilliant, gifted, eloquent and most hardworking politician at his level. Ruto is by far the youngest..just turned 50...and will be around for a very long time...and every year he is just getting better. In 2022...it will be obvious there won't be any competition. Ruto is not sitting there waiting to be made PORK...he is there making himself
 the only choice for 2012.

I think 2022 is wide open.  It will take someone with greater national appeal than Ruto to win it all.
Of course tribal alliances matter.  For them to work, though, you have to be able to sell a candidate to a different tribe.  I am not seeing anyone else buying into Ruto outside his tribe.  Maybe shaky support from a few pastoralist communities.

We are already hearing noises from his best option.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2016, 05:45:27 PM »
That is already good enough base -Kalenjin+pastoralist gave him 78Mps, 10 senators and governors. Ruto just need to have direct support of 25%-30%. And get somebody else willing to bring in 20% for in a power sharing deal. That is GEMA. If that doesn't work he'll need to get two or three people each bringing 10% or about. The 5% he will collect here and there..from small tribes.

You seem to think to become Kenya PORK you have to be liked by 80% of the all people? Actually no. Uhuru real and only direct support is from GEMA. That is where 90% of TNA mps are from. But he is PORK as you speak. Ruto's Kalenjin by 2022 will be equal to Uhuru's Kikuyus. His pastoralist base will counter Meru & EMbu...so nobody has the key to statehouses.

Raila with his national appeal is now been rated in 20s!

Of course tribal alliances matter.  For them to work, though, you have to be able to sell a candidate to a different tribe.  I am not seeing anyone else buying into Ruto outside his tribe.  Maybe shaky support from a few pastoralist communities.


We are already hearing noises from his best option.

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2016, 07:18:46 PM »

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2016, 07:39:06 PM »
Pundit

are you here not aiming your guns at the messenger and ignoring the sender and the message?

It is not CORD, Raila or Kajwang speaking. These remarks are coming from the heart of GEMA. We have heard them before from some commoners and ignored them. In fact the newspapers and TVs have carried these because of the nature not the people speaking. Not two by the way. Three:
1. Governor Munya
2. Governor Kabogo
3. Senator Njoroge

There is no non Kikuyu / GEMA who has made those statements.

I can tell you for free that CORD is not banking on Ruto dumping Uhuru. Our plans are to beat Uhuru and Ruto together. You speak of Uhuru expanding his vote and I see no evidence of that except cooked up opinion polls. If CORD had lost support the MPs now on the take would have dared ton come out in the open.

Let me recoup: Gideon Mungaro and Idi are lying low sending feelers to us to understand that they are only looking for cash. Kilifi is 100% CORD and proof - we beat off Jubilee armed to the teeth with unlimited Euro Bond loot, state machinery harassment (Marwa) and massive one sided media propaganda (check the Nation, Citizen and KTN one sided coverage where CORD was either blacked out or accused of violence.

Intimidation: loyal CORD governors are being intimidated after Jubilee failed to buy them and realized it had no support.
1. Oparanya arrested
2. Joho harassed over his personal security
3. Governor Nathif Jama arrested

All this time corrupt Jubilee and rebel CORD officials are feted by Uhuru and Ruto. For example Mutua who belongs in Kamiti.

I have no idea where Jubilee has expanded support. For Joe Mutambu to lie he will deliver votes to Jubilee in Kalonzo's home area is to treat Kalonzo as if he were Mudavadi. Kalembe Ndile could not win his seat twice and Jubilee thinks he will deliver in Kitui? Again these MPs would have openly defected if they knew Jubilee was popular. Those who have tried like Mumias MP Benjamin Jomo Washiali have had to flee funerals amid heavy jubilee provided security.

Tell me where this support is bro
I think Synovate here are on point. Uhuru has added more votes to his 2012 baskets. They were running as ICC indictee with scare mongering from everyone including Obama but managed to ran a good campaign.

Ruto will work with what he has. I don't know who the kikuyus are planning to support in 2022 but I know right now most GEMA mps are fighting to become Ruto's DP. I also know Ruto has the genuine support and friendship of Uhuru -- who is the undisputed leader of GEMA. That is good base to start.

Again at the risk of repeating myself. Ruto plan A is that Uhuru and GEMA will support him. In case they don't support him --his plan B is to retain most of Jubilee support and make coalition with another strong party. GEMA will also need to make another pact. Nobody can do it alone. Every of the big tribes and few second tier tribes will all be looking to make deals and alliances.

So far all we hear is the same BULLSHIET we heard prior to 2013 that Kikuyu and Kalenjin will not vote in the same basket immediately after PEV. That never panned out as planned. The tatulogy has now morphed into Kikuyus are planning not to support Ruto....and we have evidence of two people...while ignoring evidence of 98 others who have endorsed Ruto.

All we hear are guys who clearly don't like Ruto trying to advice him on what is the best for him. The advice is the rocket science of kikuyus will not support you. Like they've gone to 2022 and came back.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2016, 09:49:19 PM »
I see you can count with a single hand all the guys who have express some reservation of DP Ruto winning GEMA vote; I cannot count how many have endorsed Ruto; Kabogo himself is busy trying to position himself as Ruto DP. Obviously we will have a long time to revisit this isssue..till the night of 2022 elections. So I let that rest.

As for Uhuru winning by more by 50% he got last time. That too is just so self-evident we really don't have to sweat it. UhuRuto have kept their coalition intact and have made significant in roads in CORD areas. That should pump their numbers up. I am not sure how many Mps out of 130 CORD have that still are loyal --I'd put the number at about 50. Everywhere I look I see so many defectors.
 
These Mps I think don't see any Raila path to 2012. First CORD have to sort out MOU issues with Kalonzo. Then they have to demonstrate with facts how they intend to overturn Uhuru's 50%? Without that they will continue to bleed. Those Mps know Raila had the best shot in 2013 and totally blew it.

This seem impossible considering Jubilee has basically delivered on their promises, I have played some neat smart politics, remain united despite the hulabaloo about 2022 and already have a line up.

If Jubilee were to offer Kalonzo the Majority Leader now..I'd bet he'll ran for it. But that will complicate Ruto's 2012 bid. You want those guys tired and broke by 2022. So Ruto will never allow MaDVD or Kalonzo or any other potentially ambitious leader near Jubilee. The current Kabogos, Munyas and Njoroge are already a problem enough :) leave alone their hopelessness in taking Ruto head on.  Ruto has to make sure that after Uhuru; it will be him and only him.

Jubilee has to really implode for Raila to come back from the dead.

Pundit

are you here not aiming your guns at the messenger and ignoring the sender and the message?

It is not CORD, Raila or Kajwang speaking. These remarks are coming from the heart of GEMA. We have heard them before from some commoners and ignored them. In fact the newspapers and TVs have carried these because of the nature not the people speaking. Not two by the way. Three:
1. Governor Munya
2. Governor Kabogo
3. Senator Njoroge

There is no non Kikuyu / GEMA who has made those statements.

I can tell you for free that CORD is not banking on Ruto dumping Uhuru. Our plans are to beat Uhuru and Ruto together. You speak of Uhuru expanding his vote and I see no evidence of that except cooked up opinion polls. If CORD had lost support the MPs now on the take would have dared ton come out in the open.

Let me recoup: Gideon Mungaro and Idi are lying low sending feelers to us to understand that they are only looking for cash. Kilifi is 100% CORD and proof - we beat off Jubilee armed to the teeth with unlimited Euro Bond loot, state machinery harassment (Marwa) and massive one sided media propaganda (check the Nation, Citizen and KTN one sided coverage where CORD was either blacked out or accused of violence.

Intimidation: loyal CORD governors are being intimidated after Jubilee failed to buy them and realized it had no support.
1. Oparanya arrested
2. Joho harassed over his personal security
3. Governor Nathif Jama arrested

All this time corrupt Jubilee and rebel CORD officials are feted by Uhuru and Ruto. For example Mutua who belongs in Kamiti.

I have no idea where Jubilee has expanded support. For Joe Mutambu to lie he will deliver votes to Jubilee in Kalonzo's home area is to treat Kalonzo as if he were Mudavadi. Kalembe Ndile could not win his seat twice and Jubilee thinks he will deliver in Kitui? Again these MPs would have openly defected if they knew Jubilee was popular. Those who have tried like Mumias MP Benjamin Jomo Washiali have had to flee funerals amid heavy jubilee provided security.

Tell me where this support is bro
I think Synovate here are on point. Uhuru has added more votes to his 2012 baskets. They were running as ICC indictee with scare mongering from everyone including Obama but managed to ran a good campaign.

Ruto will work with what he has. I don't know who the kikuyus are planning to support in 2022 but I know right now most GEMA mps are fighting to become Ruto's DP. I also know Ruto has the genuine support and friendship of Uhuru -- who is the undisputed leader of GEMA. That is good base to start.

Again at the risk of repeating myself. Ruto plan A is that Uhuru and GEMA will support him. In case they don't support him --his plan B is to retain most of Jubilee support and make coalition with another strong party. GEMA will also need to make another pact. Nobody can do it alone. Every of the big tribes and few second tier tribes will all be looking to make deals and alliances.

So far all we hear is the same BULLSHIET we heard prior to 2013 that Kikuyu and Kalenjin will not vote in the same basket immediately after PEV. That never panned out as planned. The tatulogy has now morphed into Kikuyus are planning not to support Ruto....and we have evidence of two people...while ignoring evidence of 98 others who have endorsed Ruto.

All we hear are guys who clearly don't like Ruto trying to advice him on what is the best for him. The advice is the rocket science of kikuyus will not support you. Like they've gone to 2022 and came back.

Offline Simanova

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Re: Kikuyus Will Surely Dump Ruto in 2022
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 10:31:25 PM »
It was never about counting thousands of people who may or may not endorse Ruto. It is Kenya we are speaking about. It took one Oloitiptip tip to force through a cabinet endorsement of Moi read by Kibaki. That started a movement that overturned all the schemes in place - not least with a slightly heavy hand of Moi's business partner Kanyotu. So there you go with numbers in Kenya. Kabogo, Munya or Njoroge speak for many and are sure playing to the prejudices of their supporters.

That said, it is one way to see it that Kabogo, Munya, Chege or Njoroge are attracting the attention of Ruto for the DP post. After all the person would have to command the support of GEMA and bring it with him to the table. There are many ways of looking at it too. Like the straight way: Kikuyus due to the many mass oathings since 1966 will not vote for a non Kikuyu.

Let me repeat: Ruto will probably take over JAP or Jubilee. The way Ngilu hang on to NARC and Karua hang on to NARC Kenya.  Uhuru after having KANU hang around his neck like an albatross for years finally dumped it. What I am saying Pundit, it does not matter how "strong" a party if part of that strength does not include  popular support. Kikuyus will dump a Ruto led party. It is then you will hear some of the things we hear them say about him when they take too much wine in our presence. Butcher of Eldoret is quite common to hear.

In your view, Ruto then realizes what 90% of the country already knows and pulls out plan B. He reaches out to the Luhya and gets a Luhya running mate. The Luhya abandon their alliance with the Luo and jump in bed to help the man who abandoned them in their fight against the Kikuyu domination win. You haven't stated how this Plan B will work ij detail and may be you should. Will Ruto expect Luhyas to be in the same alliance with Kikuyus? I can tell you in advance if the feelings on the ground remain as they are now with anger against Kikuyu domination, it will not work.

I still do not see where CORD has lost support. The MPs that Euro Bond Cash is buying are telling us that they need to refill their war-chests. A hint = there are very few complaints from our side and non of the MPs is defecting. If you have influence tell them to start compelling them to defect for the cash and see what happens bro.

Jubilee has stolen so much money they don't even know where it is. Some of the people distributing the cash as far flung Kikuyu "businessmen" and women in enclaves and islands in the country. We'll talk about that sometime.

Kalonzo was offered Majority Leader post in 2012 remember. Has it changed? I am one of those who think it is important for the three to publicize their Presidential candidacy. In fact Joho should declare as should someone from Kisii and NEP. It is a campaign ploy Pundit. If Kalonzo does not actively tell his people he will stand, he could cost us votes.

If MaDVD is not helping Uhuru destroy 300K votes how will he get the excuse to rig himself-in, in the first round? CORD is best served without MaDVD.

Thank God for Ruto keeping ambitious people away from Jubilee, we don't have to worry about any going there.

CORD has succeeded in isolating Kikuyus. Thanks to Uhuru. The next face is classified.



I see you can count with a single hand all the guys who have express some reservation of DP Ruto winning GEMA vote; I cannot count how many have endorsed Ruto; Kabogo himself is busy trying to position himself as Ruto DP. Obviously we will have a long time to revisit this isssue..till the night of 2022 elections. So I let that rest.

As for Uhuru winning by more by 50% he got last time. That too is just so self-evident we really don't have to sweat it. UhuRuto have kept their coalition intact and have made significant in roads in CORD areas. That should pump their numbers up. I am not sure how many Mps out of 130 CORD have that still are loyal --I'd put the number at about 50. Everywhere I look I see so many defectors.
 
These Mps I think don't see any Raila path to 2012. First CORD have to sort out MOU issues with Kalonzo. Then they have to demonstrate with facts how they intend to overturn Uhuru's 50%? Without that they will continue to bleed. Those Mps know Raila had the best shot in 2013 and totally blew it.

This seem impossible considering Jubilee has basically delivered on their promises, I have played some neat smart politics, remain united despite the hulabaloo about 2022 and already have a line up.

If Jubilee were to offer Kalonzo the Majority Leader now..I'd bet he'll ran for it. But that will complicate Ruto's 2012 bid. You want those guys tired and broke by 2022. So Ruto will never allow MaDVD or Kalonzo or any other potentially ambitious leader near Jubilee. The current Kabogos, Munyas and Njoroge are already a problem enough :) leave alone their hopelessness in taking Ruto head on.  Ruto has to make sure that after Uhuru; it will be him and only him.

Jubilee has to really implode for Raila to come back from the dead.