Moment of Truth for Rawal

[RV Pundit]

So you think Judges of supreme court can be persuaded by their colleagues not the law, and the facts of the case. Then they are not worthy of being the supreme court judges. All these judges bar a few are eminent scholars...I was reading Ojwang papers in early 90s when my cousin was law student then. We have a problem with our supreme court!

So far Tunoi has come clean. It seem Kiplagat acting at Kidero behest tried to bribe him; they called him twice or several times; but Tunoi refused. His accusers including JSC/Ombusdaman (sp) have come short. The man was vetted recently and passed...despite having been in judiciary since 70s. Kiplagat come to learn that Tunoi had 2,000 acres in Moiben and bingo he had been bribed. Turn out the 2,000 acres was his wife inheritance.

Not necessarily.   In "strategic bribery", it suffices to bribe the person who is (or at least "reasonably" claims) to be in a position to sway others, and influencing the "others" need not involve bribing them.     

[MOON Ki]

So you think Judges of supreme court can be persuaded by their colleagues not the law, and the facts of the case. Then they are not worthy of being the supreme court judges. All these judges bar a few are eminent scholars...I was reading Ojwang papers in early 90s when my cousin was law student then. We have a problem with our supreme court!

The first thing to note is that I was making a general point in response to your claim that if one of a group of decision-makers has supposedly been bribed, then all those who participated in a majority decision that involved the bribed person must also have been bribed.

In this specific case and your specific comment: It is not unheard-of for judges to be persuaded by factors other than the law and the facts of a case; and this is, historically, especially so in Kenya.     I see no reason to believe that the Kenyan Supreme Court is necessarily immune.    As for "eminent scholarship", Kenya actually has a long history in which "eminent scholars" turned out to be quite something else---and that includes judges, attorneys-general, ... all sorts of public office---when put in Eating position.

That you were reading Ojwang's papers in the 1990s tells me only that he has been around for quite some time; longevity alone does not say a great deal.  I cannot comment further without reading those papers; nor do I know how he might have changed since then. 

As for "problem with our supreme court!".   That certainly appears to be the case. Here is your own statement (on this very thread):

Supreme court should have the very best...and It doesnt look like we got any.

and on the other thread:

Supreme court should be totally beyond reproach.  Ours are neck deep in serious bribery allegations, power struggles and all sort of mischief.

and

And in any case supreme court has lost it and should be disbanded together with IEBC.

And so on, and so forth.  Presumably all that includes Ojwang, whose papers you have been reading since the 90s, when your cousin ...; Njoki, whose mischief you find acceptable;  Tunoi, who "so far ... has come clean"; ....

[RV Pundit]

I agree on one point. Supreme court like the ceasar wife should be beyond reproach. That this has come this far...mean Tunoi tenure is untenable. He might not be criminally guilty but he has been soiled. He cannot buy his reputation back. The same for rest of supreme court judges.

The standard here is just too low..any suspicion and you're out....and Tunoi just cannot pass that muster..the rest may pretend for some more..but I would like the whole lot just resigning. At least Mutunga has bought his job at the civil society circle by just doing that one year before his tenure ends.

They all need to resign because this is bigger than them. The same with IEBC. This is waaaaaaaaay bigger than them. Supreme court most important job is to hear presidential petition..and if they are now reclusing themselves...what will happen when the biggest test come next year.

That doesn't mean I don't emphasize with what I see as machination to kick tunoi or isaac hassan out while they have done nothing to deserve this!

We just need new people starting on a new clean slate.

So you think Judges of supreme court can be persuaded by their colleagues not the law, and the facts of the case. Then they are not worthy of being the supreme court judges. All these judges bar a few are eminent scholars...I was reading Ojwang papers in early 90s when my cousin was law student then. We have a problem with our supreme court!

The first thing to note is that I was making a general point in response to your claim that if one of a group of decision-makers has supposedly been bribed, then all those who participated in a majority decision that involved the bribed person must also have been bribed.

In this specific case and your specific comment: It is not unheard-of for judges to be persuaded by factors other than the law and the facts of a case; and this is, historically, especially so in Kenya.     I see no reason to believe that the Kenyan Supreme Court is necessarily immune.    As for "eminent scholarship", Kenya actually has a long history in which "eminent scholars" turned out to be quite something else---and that includes judges, attorneys-general, ... all sorts of public office---when put in Eating position.

That you were reading Ojwang's papers in the 1990s tells me only that he has been around for quite some time; longevity alone does not say a great deal.  I cannot comment further without reading those papers; nor do I know how he might have changed since then. 

As for "problem with our supreme court!".   That certainly appear to be the case. Here is your own statement (on this very thread):

Supreme court should have the very best...and It doesnt look like we got any.

and on the other thread:

Supreme court should be totally beyond reproach.  Ours are neck deep in serious bribery allegations, power struggles and all sort of mischief.

and

And in any case supreme court has lost it and should be disbanded together with IEBC.

And so on, and so forth.  Presumably all that includes Ojwang, whose papers you have been reading since the 90s, when your cousin ...; Njoki, whose mischief you find acceptable;  Tunoi, who "so far ... has come clean"; ....

[RV Pundit]

I mean dude we kicked baraza for what...nose pinching.Tunoi is done. But he has to defend himself coz he he innocent -which I think is brave of him--and to shame the guys who are behind this machination. IEBC post chicken scandal have no legs to stand on.

Some of these positions just required one to be of the very highest integrity and of the greatest luck.

Let hope we get brand new IEBC and Supreme court. It would not hurt if we also get the rest of the constitutional offices on a new slate. That would be a rebirth. A renewal.

The problem the constitution give Uhuru the power to make most of these appointments.

[MOON Ki]

Let hope we get brand new IEBC and Supreme court.

IEBC: Very possible and very likely.  I believe it will happen, and I am astonished that what is going on is actually going on.   Surely, it ought to be enough for people to look ahead just a little bit and get on---without drama---with what needs to be done.   

Some people have suggested that members of the IEBC should resign, because of Chickengate.   Why on earth does anyone expect that in Kenya?    If they stick to their guns, they will be bribed sent-off in a costly (not to them!) exercise, and they will  get to enjoy all their Chicken wings and whatever came out of any eggs.    (Americans have a certain "style" with English and have come up with "twofer" to refer to two-for-the-price-of-one.   But not even they seem to have thought of two-for-nothing.)  And who's going to chase people who can say a lot on where the bodies (2013) are buried?   

Supreme Court: In my view, Mission Impossible XX.   People have been fighting tooth-and-nail to stay on until they  need to be fitted with dentures, and I don't see them going anywhere.   The best that one can expect is that the next three will at least be "adequate" replacements.   

[MOON Ki]

They were out-foxed.

The new story is that Uhuru is the real hero in all that happened.     

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/how-uhuru-thwarted-camp-machinations-as-cj-mutunga-exited/-/440808/3284398/-/fk70ms/-/index.html