Australia is wrong to prosecute Esther Arunga

[Kababe]

Am saying that happens in Kisii and Coastal regions, areas teeming with witchcraft but I don't read papers or watch news that keenly. You can throw in some of that happening ANYWHERE in Mt Kenya for start

You're saying Kyuks dont suspect witches or that they do not kill them like Gusiis?

"Areas teeming with witchcraft", this is exactly your thesis that you are trying to prove, so using it as evidence is circular. You saying basically that if people kill others for witchcraft there must be rampant witchcraft in the areas, hence the lynchng is proof meaning you believe the lynchers even when what they calim is no more than a belief that someone is a witch.

I'll share with you a story. There is an old woman who died in the early 2000s from my shags. Never seen so many people happy that someone died, all the way to Nairobi, cheering all around. Why? The great witch of the area was dead. I asked all them people HOW anybody knew she was a witch? Guess what, not a single one of them had anything even remotely close to what you might call evidence. All they had was belief. The woman was evil, in their eyes, and anybody who got sick or died was counted as her victim. She was lucky she had sons/clan that was quite feared, else she would've been barbecued because someone decided some decades ago she must be a witch and then indoctrinated entire extended families with this belief. Like I sad, I will start believing this BS when I find someone who actually caught a witch, not someone who scape-goated their enemy and then this is "proof" of rampant witchcraft. The lynchings are proof of a psychosis al-right, but witchcraft? That's ridiculous. Those witches must be the biggest fools to keep offering themselves for human barbecue all the time.

[Omollo]

Evangelicals are all over Kenia which means whatever definition of witchcraft you use, some regions still carry the lion's share. That's a lame defence negro. It is not your fault so I can't understand why you are defending it with PhDs

I had no idea I was defending something or even under "attack"

[vooke]

Witchcraft is not exactly legendary RV running prowess so I expect negroes here to pretend it don't exist.

In primary school we had this half maasai half Okoyu boy who stayed in Narok. We discovered that hitting him below the diaphragm or is it solar plexus would have him letting out a Moran cry and jumping super high. As the term dragged on, the effect would ease. So maasais are in it too.

I visited Garissa and you know the Tana river just before Garissa town, that's a place negroes visit to enjoy the breeze from the river. I was told that you will never hear of crocodiles attacking al shabab ever. THey get some 'treatment' that makes them immune to the attacks. So even these are in it

I read an article on Nairobian or Standard about Okoyus with 'red thigh'. These women end up widowed the moment they are married for some reasons. I have also heard of Okoyu men totally zuzu-waad by they wives so they surrender every coin and can actually cook and do all domestic chores. Walking zombies

The most common in my place is laibonism or orkoiyots...counter accusation really for fortunes and misfortunes that befall people..laibon from talai clans are basically "prophets" with ability to dish fortunes and misfortunes for a fee...though most of them live in squalor.  It doesn't involve using snakes and parephelia..it just visiting those waganga laibons...though that exist for betwitching human and cattle.


The most common cause of misfortunes or fortunes is either karma (curse from a sinful clan member) or someone has gone to see laibon.

Death from witchraft is suppose to be quick. From curses or laibon misfortunes are slow and can be averted.

[vooke]

I'd have quit .org if you had any 'idea' ???

I had no idea I was defending something or even under "attack"

[Kababe]

Witchcraft is not exactly legendary RV running prowess so I expect negroes here to pretend it don't exist.

In primary school we had this half maasai half Okoyu boy who stayed in Narok. We discovered that hitting him below the diaphragm or is it solar plexus would have him letting out a Moran cry and jumping super high. As the term dragged on, the effect would ease. So maasais are in it too.

I visited Garissa and you know the Tana river just before Garissa town, that's a place negroes visit to enjoy the breeze from the river. I was told that you will never hear of crocodiles attacking al shabab ever. THey get some 'treatment' that makes them immune to the attacks. So even these are in it

I read an article on Nairobian or Standard about Okoyus with 'red thigh'. These women end up widowed the moment they are married for some reasons. I have also heard of Okoyu men totally zuzu-waad by they wives so they surrender every coin and can actually cook and do all domestic chores. Walking zombies

The most common in my place is laibonism or orkoiyots...counter accusation really for fortunes and misfortunes that befall people..laibon from talai clans are basically "prophets" with ability to dish fortunes and misfortunes for a fee...though most of them live in squalor.  It doesn't involve using snakes and parephelia..it just visiting those waganga laibons...though that exist for betwitching human and cattle.


The most common cause of misfortunes or fortunes is either karma (curse from a sinful clan member) or someone has gone to see laibon.

Death from witchraft is suppose to be quick. From curses or laibon misfortunes are slow and can be averted.

Superstition tupu. You picked up folktales and to you this is proof and then you berate others for believing conspiracy theories 

[Omollo]

I'd have quit .org if you had any 'idea'

I had no idea I was defending something or even under "attack"

Pettiness

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

If one remembers that Esther is a lawyer.  One would realize her latest admission still tries to get Quincy off the hook as a nut-case. 

@Kababe,

She may be a victim.  On a level that is secondary, even irrelevant to the case.  Everyone has an excuse if one digs deep enough.  That should not take away from the immediate crime.

For this pair, insanity may not be such a difficult thing to prove.

[vooke]

Superstitions that are so unevenly distributed. not fair

Superstition tupu.

[Kababe]

Superstitions that are so unevenly distributed. not fair

Superstition tupu.

I meant YOU are full of superstition, seeing as you are presenting folktales you've picked up about Alshabbab sijuin nani, I dont see how this is different from Omollo believing in Mama Ngina's deal with Shaitan.

[vooke]

It was meant to make you at ease with Kisii witchcraft seeing every other community has its own brand of the same
The boy could really jump, said it was some 'medicine' he was given by Morans
Not sure about Okoyu 'red thigh' nor al shabaab 'anti-crocodile' portions

The denial is comical not any different from Okoyu's animal husbandry denialism ???

I meant YOU are full of superstition, seeing as you are presenting folktales you've picked up about Alshabbab sijuin nani, I dont see how this is different from Omollo believing in Mama Ngina's deal with Shaitan.

[Omollo]

I meant YOU are full of superstition, seeing as you are presenting folktales you've picked up about Alshabbab sijuin nani, I dont see how this is different from Omollo believing in Mama Ngina's deal with Shaitan.

Kababe,

I understand your urge and temptation to throw a barb at me.

For a lawyer, you take too many liberties. I have never once believed any of what you claim I have about Mama Ngina. May be you should learn to read and actually understand what is written. It helps when one is trying to be a lawyer!

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Superstitions that are so unevenly distributed. not fair

Superstition tupu.

I am curious how you define superstition.  Very curious.

[Kababe]

It was meant to make you at ease with Kisii witchcraft seeing every other community has its own brand of the same
The boy could really jump, said it was some 'medicine' he was given by Morans
Not sure about Okoyu 'red thigh' nor al shabaab 'anti-crocodile' portions

The denial is comical not any different from Okoyu's animal husbandry denialism ???

I meant YOU are full of superstition, seeing as you are presenting folktales you've picked up about Alshabbab sijuin nani, I dont see how this is different from Omollo believing in Mama Ngina's deal with Shaitan.

Stop changing stories now, your beliefs are out here already.

I have zero problems with Gusii witchcraft. Just as soon as you present me with facts and not your supersitition, I'll believe it gladly. You sound like one of those people who would be setting fire to the roof of an 80 year old woman because someone said she was a witch and it must be true!

[Kichwambaya]

Although the prosecution has the burden to prove that a crime was commited once one accepts that a crime was committed and one decides to mount a justification defense like, "self defense" or "insanity" or any other such defenses, the burden shifts.  Miss Arunga therefore should really get some good lawyers, pscychologists, women activists on her side to mount a strong defense that she was a victim. Her relatives in Kenya must immediately start raising some serious funds and should not rely on public defendants who do not have the resources to hire experts that could get her exonerated. While defenses that Kababe is talking about are available, they must be established in court with evidence and a lawyer cannot just walk into court and start talking about victimhood without evidence and expect the court to sympathize and believe you.

[Kababe]

Superstitions that are so unevenly distributed. not fair

Superstition tupu.

I am curious how you define superstition.  Very curious.

Really?

[Kababe]

Although the prosecution has the burden to prove that a crime was commited once one accepts that a crime was committed and one decides to mount a justification defense like, "self defense" or "insanity" or any other such defenses, the burden shifts.  Miss Arunga therefore should really get some good lawyers, pscychologists, women activists on her side to mount a strong defense that she was a victim. Her relatives in Kenya must immediately start raising some serious funds and should not rely on public defendants who do not have the resources to hire experts that could get her exonerated. While defenses that Kababe is talking about are available, they must be established in court with evidence and a lawyer cannot just walk into court and start talking about victimhood without evidence and expect the court to sympathize and believe you.

Only the burden shifts, not the std. All the defense needs to do is establish a reasonable case then it shifts back to the prosecution to disprove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[vooke]

What wasted energy denying what you have 'no problem' wit
Those are Kisii negroes making nyamchom out of octogenarians for sport not vooke but feel free to project it on me. They have a fetish for 70 year human choma I guess

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8119201.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227693/Elderly-Kenyans-burned-alive-witches-refusing-desirable-coastline-land.html
http://kenyastockholm.com/2009/03/20/horror-in-kenya-video-of-witches-burnt-alive/

Stop changing stories now, your beliefs are out here already.

I have zero problems with Gusii witchcraft. Just as soon as you present me with facts and not your supersitition, I'll believe it gladly. You sound like one of those people who would be setting fire to the roof of an 80 year old woman because someone said she was a witch and it must be true!

[Kababe]

Those are Kisii negroes making nyamchom out of octogenarians for sport not vooke but feel free to project it on me. They have a fetish for 70 year human choma I guess

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8119201.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227693/Elderly-Kenyans-burned-alive-witches-refusing-desirable-coastline-land.html
http://kenyastockholm.com/2009/03/20/horror-in-kenya-video-of-witches-burnt-alive/

Stop changing stories now, your beliefs are out here already.

I have zero problems with Gusii witchcraft. Just as soon as you present me with facts and not your supersitition, I'll believe it gladly. You sound like one of those people who would be setting fire to the roof of an 80 year old woman because someone said she was a witch and it must be true!

Indeed they are Gusii negroes, and you have been insisting that their claimed reason for making human nyamchom is factual, meaning you just believe them because they believe it. You are asking why waste energy stating something lacks facts? I'm sure you'd be happier if everything you claimed went unchallenged, but alas, this is the internet. I have no problem with Gusiis witchcraft, I have a problem with superstition and prejudice presented as facts.

[vooke]

Whether witchraft exists/works is not the issue. negroes who not only believe it but are willing kill for it not once or twice points to EXISTENCE of the practice and denying that and barking for evidence is mighty lame. Was u ever cut anywhere on your body?

Indeed they are Gusii negroes, and you have been insisting that their claimed reason for making human nyamchom is factual, meaning you just believe them.

[Kababe]

Whether witchraft exists/works is not the issue. negroes who not only believe it but are willing kill for it not once or twice points to EXISTENCE of the practice and denying that and barking for evidence is mighty lame. Was u ever cut anywhere on your body?

Indeed they are Gusii negroes, and you have been insisting that their claimed reason for making human nyamchom is factual, meaning you just believe them.

Someone killed someone for a belief therefore it must be true!! Pray tell, when are you converting to the religion of Boko Hsaram and ISIS if this is what you believe?

Stop self-contradiction: Whether witchcraft exists is NOT the issue, (you claim) then you say immediately, it has to EXIST because people kill in its name, therefore whether it exists is in fact the issue, isnt it?

vooke, have you ever had sex with a red-thighed woman?