Australia is wrong to prosecute Esther Arunga

[Kababe]

I just find it hard to see Esther as passive over the whole episode(s). If I said they participated in the exorcism together, what would be your objection?

kadame,
So far the only thing we know is that Quincy attempted exorcism on the kid. Is there ANY evidence of past /recurring abuse or this was a one-off thing where they both participated?

vooke, no way this was a one-off thing. People dont just get up one morning and decide Bill Gates is in their child and needs to be taken out Jackie Chan style.

Like I've said to Termie, it may very well be that they were both nuts and believed that Bill Gates was in their baby. If there was evidence she was an active participant they would've both been charged with the principal offence.

[Kababe]

vooke, uwache ukabila. What do you mean "common in Western and Nyanza"??????

Veri, I have just typed a line of question marks (??) six of them and then these two laughing guys show up..... Huh? What did you do to the smilies? We cant type continuous question marks to express confusion?

[vooke]

Fact is Quincy blows took out the kid. Was Esther watching helplessly? Whether she was part of the exorcism or not lies in what she confesses
The evidence would be Esther's word against Quincy's. So far we got no idea what Quincy is singing.

Like I've said to Termie, it may very well be that they were both nuts and believed that Bill Gates was in their baby. If there was evidence she was an active participant they would've both been charged with the principal offence.

[Omollo]

That would have to be the negro version of psychic surgery common in Western and Nyanza

She has been in uchawi together with him all along:

Police said Sinclair's initial post mortem results were not consistent with a fall down the stairs. He had suffered internal injuries, bruising to his arms and torso. He also had a number of other injuries Mrs Timberlake said were caused by traditional Kenyan healing techniques prior to June 18.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/quincy-timberlake-tried-to-rid-son-of-demons-court-20140912-10fwh8.html#ixzz3DNtuDHza

I used to buy that prejudice until PEV when people forced Kikuyu owned homes in Western Kenya open and found shocking witchcraft paraphernalia. Dead and dried bodies stuffed with money (Kakamega); A cupboard with a skull filled with silver coins (Mumias); Perhaps that is what pastor vooke refers to.

[vooke]

What do you mean ukabila?
Where else in Kenia do traditional healers remove feathers, glass pieces,soap from light cuts made on negroes?
My roommate in campo was Luhya proper and he underwent that. Before that I had Luo friends from way back and their 9 months old kid died. She had tried those things. Am sure there are negroes here who have strange cuts on their wrist and around their waist

vooke, uwache ukabila. What do you mean "common in Western and Nyanza"??????

Veri, I have just typed a line of question marks (??) six of them and then these two laughing guys show up..... Huh? What did you do to the smilies? We cant type continuous question marks to express confusion?

[vooke]

Negro,
don't take offence, it is about frequency or probability. What is the likelihood of running into an Okoyu traditional healer(not herbalist) ANYWHERE in Central and 'diaspora? NIL or close to NIL What about in Nyanza, or Western where my Empress hails from?

I used to buy that prejudice until PEV when people forced Kikuyu owned homes in Western Kenya open and found shocking witchcraft paraphernalia. Dead and dried bodies stuffed with money (Kakamega); A cupboard with a skull filled with silver coins (Mumias); Perhaps that is what pastor vooke refers to.

[Kababe]

What do you mean ukabila?
Where else in Kenia do traditional healers remove feathers, glass pieces,soap from light cuts made on negroes?
My roommate in campo was Luhya proper and he underwent that. Before that I had Luo friends from way back and their 9 months old kid died. She had tried those things. Am sure there are negroes here who have strange cuts on their wrist and around their waist

vooke, uwache ukabila. What do you mean "common in Western and Nyanza"??????

Veri, I have just typed a line of question marks (??) six of them and then these two laughing guys show up..... Huh? What did you do to the smilies? We cant type continuous question marks to express confusion?

vooke, I have no idea what traditional healers do, but I imagine wherever they are from, they do nasty stuff that seems crazy to our modern sensibilities. What do Kyuk traditional healers do?

As a Gusii, I know about the cutting, they used to bleed people believing that the sickness was in the blood or something. Some of the cutting is also some kind of charm to ward off urogi. However, you will not find people in their 30s,40s with these marks, these are people in their 60s etc.

[RV Pundit]

soung interesting...i agree with you..witchcraft is big deal in western kenya,ukambani, coast and i hear whole of nyanza..quincy fool and her foolish wife took it modern.

What do you mean ukabila?
Where else in Kenia do traditional healers remove feathers, glass pieces,soap from light cuts made on negroes?
My roommate in campo was Luhya proper and he underwent that. Before that I had Luo friends from way back and their 9 months old kid died. She had tried those things. Am sure there are negroes here who have strange cuts on their wrist and around their waist

[Kababe]

Fact is Quincy blows took out the kid. Was Esther watching helplessly? Whether she was part of the exorcism or not lies in what she confesses
The evidence would be Esther's word against Quincy's. So far we got no idea what Quincy is singing.

Like I've said to Termie, it may very well be that they were both nuts and believed that Bill Gates was in their baby. If there was evidence she was an active participant they would've both been charged with the principal offence.

Well, whatever Quincy's singing, it must not be enough to get the police to charge Esther with murder.

[vooke]

I don't know of any but witchraft or at least open witchraft is rampant in Luo/Kisii Nyanza, Western and Eastern (Ukambani). You can aks me for statistics and my failure to produce that should read as Omorlo's pre-PEV prejudice.

A cab driver buddy of mine drives a lady from Westy every two months to Kitui. I think Okoyus who are into it have to source for it outside

Kisii is not so innocent if all the lynchings we hear are nothing to go by
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktn/?videoID=2000075377&video_title=kisii-suspected-witch-doctors-in-hiding-for-fear-of-beign-killed

vooke, I have no idea what traditional healers do, but I imagine wherever they are from, they do nasty stuff that seems crazy to our modern sensibilities. What do Kyuk traditional healers do?

As a Gusii, I know about the cutting, they used to bleed people believing that the sickness was in the blood or something. Some of the cutting is also some kind of charm to ward off urogi.

[Kababe]

Ati "open witchcraft" is rampant in Gusii? Negro, wacha bangi?????? In Gusii the worst thing you want anybody accusing you of is uchawi unless you're into the idea of becoming human barbecue. You'd better even be suspected of thieving someone's cattle which is dangerous but not nearly as dangerous as being thought to be a witch. What happens is superstition, where everyone suspects everyone of malice. My grand pa died at over 90, he told me all his life he has been terrified of witches, and yet never met one, or anyone who knew one. Everyone seems to know someone who knows someone who saw a witch live live! Those poor people who are killed are victims of cheap petty small village gossip, jealousy, malice, feuding cooked up into one.

[vooke]

there is no witchraft in Kisii Land that's why they are not preoccupied with witchhunts. Slanted journalism

Ati "open witchcraft" is rampant in Gusii? Negro, wacha bangi?????? In Gusii the worst thing you want anybody accusing you of is uchawi unless you're into the idea of becoming human barbecue. You'd better even be suspected of thieving someone's cattle which is dangerous but not nearly as dangerous as being thought to be a witch.

[Omollo]

Negro,
don't take offence, it is about frequency or probability. What is the likelihood of running into an Okoyu traditional healer(not herbalist) ANYWHERE in Central and 'diaspora? NIL or close to NIL What about in Nyanza, or Western where my Empress hails from?

I have looked in to this issue at length. I did help some PhD candidate with his research. If you are talking about a Kikuyu Medicine man per se you would not find. But one find them in Embu, Meru and Tharaka / Mbeere.

Then there is the "modern" form of it where it has merged with "Christianity" and is done through the so called Evangelical churches. When served through those churches it is acceptable even to born again Christians.

The "giftt" of "prophecy" is often bought for a lot of money by these "Pastors". They simply buy jinnis but have an elaborate language which calls them "angels" (all in line with the Christian doctrine which treats Jinni as "angels" as opposed to Islam which treats them as lesser than Angels and creatures with a free will like Humans). They have the ability to see people secrets and reveal them to the "pastor" who then uses that information to lie to his congregation and earn the position of "prophet".

Others have gone high tech with a system of spies, electronic eavesdropping and earphones to cheat.

In my book, the wizard in Kisii, Luoland or Luhyaland is no different from these high tech witchdoctors / Prophets

[vooke]

Evangelicals are all over Kenia which means whatever definition of witchcraft you use, some regions still carry the lion's share. That's a lame defence negro. It is not your fault so I can't understand why you are defending it with PhDs

I have looked in to this issue at length. I did help some PhD candidate with his research. If you are talking about a Kikuyu Medicine man per se you would not find. But one find them in Embu, Meru and Tharaka / Mbeere.

Then there is the "modern" form of it where it has merged with "Christianity" and is done through the so called Evangelical churches. When served through those churches it is acceptable even to born again Christians.

The "giftt" of "prophecy" is often bought for a lot of money by these "Pastors". They simply buy jinnis but have an elaborate language which calls them "angels" (all in line with the Christian doctrine which treats Jinni as "angels" as opposed to Islam which treats them as lesser than Angels and creatures with a free will like Humans). They have the ability to see people secrets and reveal them to the "pastor" who then uses that information to lie to his congregation and earn the position of "prophet".

Others have gone high tech with a system of spies, electronic eavesdropping and earphones to cheat.

In my book, the wizard in Kisii, Luoland or Luhyaland is no different from these high tech witchdoctors / Prophets

[Kababe]

there is no witchraft in Kisii Land that's why they are not preoccupied with witchhunts. Slanted journalism

Ati "open witchcraft" is rampant in Gusii? Negro, wacha bangi?????? In Gusii the worst thing you want anybody accusing you of is uchawi unless you're into the idea of becoming human barbecue. You'd better even be suspected of thieving someone's cattle which is dangerous but not nearly as dangerous as being thought to be a witch.

Which one of those "witches" was actually caught "witching"? Show me one. The accusations that my neighbour who hates me is a witch because we've been enemies and then my kid died after talking to him, sijui nini....negro, that aint even heresay, its not even gossip, its good old-fashioned superstition. It's only that Gusiis emabarrassingly believe it like it is Gospel. A Gusii pastor straight from preaching in church will readily kill a "witch" believing he is not committing any sin. Gusiis are sick, but the sickness is the ridiculous levels of superstition and malice/envy/feuding. I will believe it is witchcraft when people are actually caught witching, not just accused and killed in a mob frenzy.

[vooke]

Nobody ever gets tried in courts so they are suspects. Why would one region has such high incidences of suspects?

Which one of those "witches" was actually caught "witching"? Show me one. The accusations that my neighbour who hates me is a witch because we've been enemies and then my kid died after talking to him, sijui nini....negro, that aint even heresay, its not even gossip, its good old-fashioned superstition. It's only that Gusiis emabarrassingly believe it like it is Gospel. A Gusii pastor straight from preaching in church will readily kill a "witch" believing he is not committing any sin. Gusiis are sick, but the sickness is the ridiculous levels of superstition and malice/envy/feuding.

[Kababe]

Nobody ever gets tried in courts so they are suspects. Why would one region has such high incidences of suspects?

Which one of those "witches" was actually caught "witching"? Show me one. The accusations that my neighbour who hates me is a witch because we've been enemies and then my kid died after talking to him, sijui nini....negro, that aint even heresay, its not even gossip, its good old-fashioned superstition. It's only that Gusiis emabarrassingly believe it like it is Gospel. A Gusii pastor straight from preaching in church will readily kill a "witch" believing he is not committing any sin. Gusiis are sick, but the sickness is the ridiculous levels of superstition and malice/envy/feuding.

You're saying Kyuks dont suspect witches or that they do not kill them like Gusiis?  No one gets tried in court is a cop-out. Show me one story where the lynchers themselves claim they caught the witch witching...

[vooke]

Am saying that happens in Kisii and Coastal regions, areas teeming with witchcraft but I don't read papers or watch news that keenly so I may have missed Kiambu lynchings or attempted lynchings. You can throw in some of that happening ANYWHERE in Mt Kenya for start

You're saying Kyuks dont suspect witches or that they do not kill them like Gusiis?

[RV Pundit]

The most common in my place is laibonism or orkoiyots...counter accusation really for fortunes and misfortunes that befall people..laibon from talai clans are basically "prophets" with ability to dish fortunes and misfortunes for a fee...though most of them live in squalor.  It doesn't involve using snakes and parephelia..it just visiting those waganga laibons...though there exist women and men who betwitch human and cattle...mostly ex-gusii.


The most common cause of misfortunes or fortunes is either karma (curse from a sinful clan member) or someone has gone to see laibon.

Death from witchraft is suppose to be quick. From curses or laibon misfortunes are slow and can be averted.

There is also the evil eye...which happen to be my clan...who have power to kill esp vulnerable small things by just looking at them....ex-maasai kekenyoike thing.

[RV Pundit]

The most common in my place is laibonism or orkoiyots...counter accusation really for fortunes and misfortunes that befall people..laibon from talai clans are basically "prophets" with ability to dish fortunes and misfortunes for a fee...though most of them live in squalor.  It doesn't involve using snakes and parephelia..it just visiting those waganga laibons... that exist mainly in women but on minimal scales.

The most common cause of misfortunes or fortunes is either karma (curse from a sinful clan member) or someone has gone to see laibon.