BREXIT

[Nefertiti]

Hi RP,

The EU is economically protectionist so Brexit would be good for Africa and Kenya. Trade, aid and FDI with Africa would likely increase with an independent UK and/or a less integrated EU.

For Brits a more accountable EU is better than exit. EU needs reform to be less political and stick to economics to avoid disintegration. Imposing migrant quotas on members and a Kibaki-like aloof eurocracy need to stop if it is to survive Brexit. When far right nationalists start winning just know there is trouble.

Now as for Obams... it's not clear to me why US politicians feel entitled to opinion. Sovereignty & democracy is a major issue in the Brexit so his advice is ill-timed. He should have learnt something from Kenya 2013 

[Real P]

Robina -

BHO is entitled to his opinion and it makes perfect sense from his point of view. I don't think the Brits should not mind him giving his opinion. He said the British people have to decide for themselves but the US President should give his honest opinion given the relationship between the US and UK.  I understand no one needs to treat Obama's personal opinion with any kind of reverence. The US doesn't want the UK to leave because it weakens its own geopolitical power for many reasons. The US is a net importer to the EU especially UK. Meaning, any restriction in trade means the trade deficit of UK would increase, and her GDP would go down. It would hurt UK more than the US.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/


The information and history regarding Brexit does seem to be of a very complex nature. It seems like there is too much general manipulation of data in the media and overly biased views. Gutter press telling Brits that all the problems in the UK are caused by Brussels and immigrants. Apparently the entire population of Turkey is coming if they stay in the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661387/Migrant-crisis-Nigel-Farage-Turkey-EU-visa-free-travel

[Nefertiti]

RP,

There is no EU-US trade pact in place to loose. That's a hoax but it's fair game.

Obviously the real issue in any vote is hostage to politics. Recall Kenya 2010... when WSR's only option was simply opposite RAO Farage has been spreading eurosceptic hysteria for some time. His UKIP (what a name?) actually repels moderates from Brexit. But he gets one thing right: EU has exceeded its mandate and become too overbearing. Most laws passed by Westminster are overruled by the ECJ. Yet the key people in Brussels are un-elected. See the problem? It's not EU, it's USE.

"Hey Brits, I can't tell you what to do. Choices have consequences..."

[bryan275]

RP,

There is no EU-US trade pact in place to loose. That's a hoax but it's fair game.

Obviously the real issue in any vote is hostage to politics. Recall Kenya 2010... when WSR's only option was simply opposite RAO Farage has been spreading eurosceptic hysteria for some time. His UKIP (what a name?) actually repels moderates from Brexit. But he gets one thing right: EU has exceeded its mandate and become too overbearing. Most laws passed by Westminster are overruled by the ECJ. Yet the key people in Brussels are un-elected. See the problem? It's not EU, it's USE.

"Hey Brits, I can't tell you what to do. Choices have consequences..."

Of course there is no US/EU deal in place at the moment, however one is in progress, and Obama's view is that the (strangely) "unmultitasking" US will complete that deal first before commencing trade talks with the independent UK.

Meanwhile Sturgeon will push for another break for independence from the UK soon after BREXIT.  Whether they join the EU will depend firmly on the Spanish and their separatists... these are interesting times in Europe.

[bryan275]

Robina -

BHO is entitled to his opinion and it makes perfect sense from his point of view. I don't think the Brits should not mind him giving his opinion. He said the British people have to decide for themselves but the US President should give his honest opinion given the relationship between the US and UK.  I understand no one needs to treat Obama's personal opinion with any kind of reverence. The US doesn't want the UK to leave because it weakens its own geopolitical power for many reasons. The US is a net importer to the EU especially UK. Meaning, any restriction in trade means the trade deficit of UK would increase, and her GDP would go down. It would hurt UK more than the US.

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/


The information and history regarding Brexit does seem to be of a very complex nature. It seems like there is too much general manipulation of data in the media and overly biased views. Gutter press telling Brits that all the problems in the UK are caused by Brussels and immigrants. Apparently the entire population of Turkey is coming if they stay in the EU.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/661387/Migrant-crisis-Nigel-Farage-Turkey-EU-visa-free-travel

The regular Brit is very gullible and would generally take as truth any spin from the far right politicians and press.

One thing that does not come through the numbers is the real loss of opportunities for the blue collar poorly educated Brit (plumbers, electricians, joiners etc).  As a householder, I'd sooner employ a Polish plumber, Romanian joiner and cleaner etc because 1) They turn up for work 2) Their quality of work is very good 3) Their rates are fab

Immigrants have opened up the country to new opportunities.  I will give you an example.  Our local post office was recently acquired by an asian family.  Right away the shop is now open 7am to 9pm seven days a week providing postal services until late.  Previously the PO was closed every Wednesday (all day), Monday and Saturday  afternoons, and all day Sunday.  There was no way that business was viable and was marked for closure.

"The turks are coming"....

[bryan275]

On a general note, I saw some friends over the weekend and the issue of BREXIT came up.  It was eye opening to note that the group made up of 100% emigres was very hostile to "immigration from the EU" and they will be largely voting to leave.

What is the board's opinion?  As an immigrant, should one always be sympathetic to immigration?

[Nefertiti]

Immigration like most problems affects the poor, blue-collar, uneducated, etc. Big business and the middle class are pro-EU. Small business and the poor are pro-Brexit. That is why Vote Leave is running on populism -- it works for their base.

Trump's base is blue-collar whites. The Democrats fear after the primaries he will train his anti-immigrant, anti-globalization message on the blacks. You have heard the accusations of "dividing black and brown".

Populism is partly based on the truth. Blue-collar Brits should vote to leave. Cameron needs a better message than what he is running on now.

The real reason the Right in general opposes immigration is that immigrants predominantly support the Left. It takes a rare maverick like Trump or Boris to tilt the scales.

On a general note, I saw some friends over the weekend and the issue of BREXIT came up.  It was eye opening to note that the group made up of 100% emigres was very hostile to "immigration from the EU" and they will be largely voting to leave.

What is the board's opinion?  As an immigrant, should one always be sympathetic to immigration?

[MOON Ki]

[Real P]

As we are getting closer to UK putting it's continuing EU membership to the vote in a public referendum on the 23rd of June, it seems the trouble at the moment is that both sides of the argument have suddenly descended into scare tactics rather than providing actual, relevant arguments on it all. I can see a variety of pros and cons to both sides of the discussion, but emotionally I see our .org members who live in the UK and EU sliding towards the Brexit side of things.  I was talking to a close buddy recently who felt that over the last decade (at least to a fair few Brits), the EU seems to have been getting into a much more impenetrable morass of bureaucracy that they have no say in, that isn't transparent, that sucks away their money on an ever increasing red tape and in-crony establishment, and crowds new legislation on them for no particular reason.