SGR construction ahead of schedule

[MOON Ki]

You can talk endlessy about an single accident....but for a country that has added more railway than probably the whole world combine in very short years...that won't take away the CHINA amazing engineering. China last I checked were graduating millions of engineers!

I didn't see anything "endless" beyond a couple of comments on one example.  "Spectacular" infrastructure disasters actually seem to be routine in China.

I agree with you that you can't beat them when it comes to quantity---whether it is chickens, plastic cups, babies per year, roads, toe-nail clippings, railways, poop, ... whatever.   They win, hands down.   In the Quantity Olympics, it probably doesn't hurt to have 1 billion+ people crammed into one's team.

But, as I see it, the "debate" here has been about quality.    There are few places in the world where "Chinese-made" is associated with quality.   Quantity? TICK!   Cheap?  TICK!   Quality?   

[RV Pundit]

And we should believe this based on what...your travels around the world? Chinese began from bottom like everyone...but right now..they are producing top quality stuff that meet any quality standards in any country of the world...hence they rise.If there rise was by default, then India and Africa with similar pop size, would be up there.

It not really my problem that your or others have perception issues about made in china....the world does seem to care...as they buy tonnes and tonnes of made in china.

10yrs ago..maybe your argument would have made sense..but in 2015...it doesn't. You need to travel around the world again!

But, as I see it, the "debate" here has been about quality.    There are few places in the world where "Chinese-made" is associated with quality.   Quantity? TICK!   Cheap?  TICK!   Quality?   

[MOON Ki]

And we should believe this based on what...your travels around the world?

Not on the basis of my travels, no.  But I think all of us here, and elsewhere, know about the quality of Chinese products.  You, of course, can be expected to take a "certain approach" in Kung Fu matters, but I don't think we'll be seeing here many supporters of your viewpoint.

If I were to pick any "evidence" from my travels, it would probably be in China itself---seeing what was on offer, folks cheerfully telling me they went for cheap+quantity ("tonnes  and tonnes", as you would put it) rather than quality, etc.   

Chinese began from bottom like everyone...but right now..they are producing top quality stuff that meet any quality standards in any country of the world...

And we should believe this based on what...your travels around the world?

It not really my problem that your or others have perception issues about made in china....the world does seem to care...as they buy tonnes and tonnes of made in china.

Of course, they do.   Even I frequently  buy Chinese products.   I just don't expect them to last or to be of high quality.   And in that regard they never disappoint. Stop thinking in terms of "tonnes and tonnes" and move on to quality.

10yrs ago..maybe your argument would have made sense..but in 2015...it doesn't. You need to travel around the world again!

I was just in China last month, and I will be back there in four months.   You think I should go elsewhere to have a better "view" of Chinese products?   Oh, I also took in a bit of Japan and South Korea.   Major cities overrun with Chinese tourists looking to buy "quality"!

P.S.  This is interesting ... or perhaps irritating:

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Africa-China-Loans-Development-Governments/-/440808/2847422/-/u3w6xj/-/index.html

[RV Pundit]

So in your weird world quality is not tied price of a product?

China have everything you need; from knock downs to real quality stuff; and all come at a price; and all are now made in china. If there is something of very high quality that you cannot find in China; then you need to visit China again and spend more time looking.

Right now there are many respected Chinese brands....running stuff from rocket launchers to matches box.

In my field..Huwaei basically ran all the networks in the world..including in Europe and US senate had to block it for "security" reason...so as you type away...you're probably using chinese quality products..right from your computer, to your phone, to infrastructure...

And for some years now...China not only has caught up with best in the world..they moving fast ahead.

And maybe it no longer make sense to make something that will last forever (steel or iron is now expensive...and you have to do with hardened plastic)...yeah some old iron boxes were even made from steel or gold..and will last forever!!!. It no longer make sense to do that now...given 1) materials 2) technology will make it obsolete in less than 10yrs.

[veritas]

RVP, Huawei is a piece of sh!t spy technology.

Shenzhen is a tech recycling DUMP. Similar to Kibera slums. It's a place where they cobble together bits of scraps from all over the world and refurbish into inferior products. I know so because I have about a dozen or so personal contacts in Shenzhen... let me get my list of business cards... oh yes. Elva tells me they're starving. Please name one industrial product that isn't just refurbished plastic the Chinese are global players in.

RVP, this isn't about a street flea market where you score a Made in China bargain fly squatter or the dinosaur days like the GIZA pyramids. It's hard to see what quality is in Kenya when the relative comparison is mud brick technology. Perhaps you should stick to having a BBQ for your little girl.


I know for a fact MK was in China the last couple months meeting business investors because I asked him for a favor there. He's also lived in South Korea for years. He travels ALL the time. Right now he's in Amsterdam. I'd listen to the man.

[RV Pundit]

There are stuff china don't yet manufacture..like those circuit boards...those they import in boatloads..but definitely Huawei is one of the most respected brand now...and is filling more patents than any company in the world if am not wrong. You can bet Australia telcom network ran on Huawei.

RVP, Huawei is a piece of sh!t spy technology.

Shenzhen is a tech recycling DUMP. Similar to Kibera slums. It's a place where they cobble together bits of scraps from all over the world and refurbish into inferior products. I know so because I have about a dozen or so personal contacts in Shenzhen... let me get my list of business cards... oh yes. Elva tells me they're starving. Please name one industrial product that isn't just refurbished plastic the Chinese are global players in.

RVP, this isn't about a street flea market where you score a Made in China bargain fly squatter or the dinosaur days like the GIZA pyramids. It's hard to see what quality is in Kenya when the relative comparison is mud brick technology. Perhaps you should stick to having a BBQ for your little girl.


I know for a fact MK was in China the last couple months meeting business investors because I asked him for a favor there. He's also lived in South Korea for years. He travels ALL the time. Right now he's in Amsterdam. I'd listen to the man.

[veritas]

Those circuit boards you speak of are engineered in Taiwan. Taiwan has a global patent on all chips. Every electronic chip in the world comes from Taiwan. Huawei is no exception.

Telco isn't just industrial.

Telco cables are also used for domestic and commercial premises- for instance with copper made by Samsung (who have a global patent on copper), connectors like RJ11/RJ45 from Taiwan, and conduit PVC exteriors from Italy, Europe, Japan. Here's a history of telco piping material in Australia:

http://www.pipa.com.au/sites/default/files/document/attachment/history_formatted_2015-7-29.pdf

No, Australia's telecom network doesn't run on Huawei. Telecom networks are considered a national asset and they use sturdy technology for public telco outlets. I can tell you for a fact none of the telco products except for telephones I have at our warehouse including conduits, connectors, testers, box exteriors, telco tools, PBX systems etc. are made in China.

Telco is different from industrial sectors like building road/rail infrastructure.

[RV Pundit]

Seem Australia like US banned Huawei..otherwise Huawei long replaced the Siemens, the Ericksons and Nokias...in telcoms.

That didn't stop this...

Huawei  is the largest telecommunications equipment maker in the world, having overtaken Ericsson in 2012.

It serves 45 of the world's 50 largest telecoms. Vodafone, Orange, name them...they ran on Huawei.

Those circuit boards you speak of are engineered in Taiwan. Taiwan has a global patent on all chips. Every electronic chip in the world comes from Taiwan. Huawei is no exception.

Telco isn't just industrial.

Telco cables are also used for domestic and commercial premises- for instance with copper made by Samsung (who have a global patent on copper), connectors like RJ11/RJ45 from Taiwan, and conduit PVC exteriors from Italy, Europe, Japan. Here's a history of telco piping material in Australia:

http://www.pipa.com.au/sites/default/files/document/attachment/history_formatted_2015-7-29.pdf

No, Australia's telecom network doesn't run on Huawei. Telecom networks are considered a national asset and they use sturdy technology for public telco outlets. I can tell you for a fact none of the telco products except for telephones I have at our warehouse including conduits, connectors, testers, box exteriors, telco tools, PBX systems etc. are made in China.

Telco is different from industrial sectors like building road/rail infrastructure.

[veritas]

If you're talking about mobile phones, Huawei obviously appeals to the Chinese market and there's about a billion Chinese nationals it appeals to. It's a national asset tethered to the govt because the govt can't trust "made in foreign" mobile phones. Just like in Korea pretty much everyone drives a Hyundai because it's a national asset tethered to the government.

In places like Australia, Huawei is unheard of. I don't think the govt approves of Huawei given it's spy reputation. Popular are Samsung and iPhones in Australia.

Every mobile phone however isn't exclusively made in one country. For instance, there's a specialised raw material chip in every mobile phone of any brand that comes from DRCongo. Samsung has parts in the phone coming from other countries. In the end, it's how the phone is assembled together, design, functionality etc. that makes or breaks. I know for a fact Samsung are cutthroat meticulous, have strict regulatory checks when it comes to assembling their phones. This is a national asset and an avenue in showcasing how Korea produces superior products than the Japanese. It's payback from the atrocities Korea endured from the Japanese during the war.

Behind every corporate face is a geopolitical war.

[RV Pundit]

Interesting. I was talking more about the base stations...switches.. .Anyway you seem to be really pro-korean and anti-chinese. I guess I will never understand the South Asian undercurrents btw China, Japan, Korea, Thailand and maybe filipinos. Seem there is some intense sibling rivarly. Any I find Korea women very cute.

If you're talking about mobile phones, Huawei obviously appeals to the Chinese market and there's about a billion Chinese nationals it appeals to. It's a national asset tethered to the govt because the govt can't trust "made in foreign" mobile phones. Just like in Korea pretty much everyone drives a Hyundai because it's a national asset tethered to the government.

In places like Australia, Huawei is unheard of. I don't think the govt approves of Huawei given it's spy reputation. Popular are Samsung and iPhones in Australia.

Every mobile phone however isn't exclusively made in one country. For instance, there's a specialised raw material chip in every mobile phone of any brand that comes from DRCongo. Samsung has parts in the phone coming from other countries. In the end, it's how the phone is assembled together, design, functionality etc. that makes or breaks. I know for a fact Samsung are cutthroat meticulous, have strict regulatory checks when it comes to assembling their phones. This is a national asset and an avenue in showcasing how Korea produces superior products than the Japanese. It's payback from the atrocities Korea endured from the Japanese during the war.

Behind every corporate face is a geopolitical war.

[veritas]

Chinese are copycats (copy others) or "denon" in Korean meaning they can't trust people. Japanese are pirates (steal from others) or "wenom" meaning they abuse people and Koreans wear too much make up and plastic surgery. I would think twice about a cute Korean chic RVP. It's not their real nose, eyes or face. I have never had plastic surgery so I consider myself Chinese.

[Georgesoros]

The next century is for Asians whether you like it or not. 60% of the world is Asian, so get used to it.
Chinese will copy, so do Koreans. Samsung is a iphone copy all the way.
Koreans have perfected it, but Chinese need more time.

[veritas]

Samsung copied HTC - Taiwan (Taiwan stuck to capitalism despite Mao, they've always been the capitalist version of China). iPhone, Nokia, Siemens etc. copied HTC. The original smart phone hardware comes from HTC - Taiwan. Those chips inside your phone are from Taiwan. Korea is known for industrial ingenuity like for building ships, roads, war machines, copper etc. not smart phones, science, medicine etc.

[RV Pundit]

Ndemo has timely article on what make Taiwan and south asia ticks
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2852504/-/99i2nz/-/index.html

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Ndemo has timely article on what make Taiwan and south asia ticks
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/ndemo/-/2274486/2852504/-/99i2nz/-/index.html

I find him simplistic and unconvincing.  TZ, has more of those same values he attributes to South Asia than Kenya.  Yet one cannot argue that it has gained much over Kenya, besides national unity.

The reason the African is not making the long anticipated leap is because he is not making things.  As a result there is little economic activity outside of planting and extracting things from the ground. 

The population is rural.  They rarely use manufactured goods because they are expensive "luxuries".  They produce less value over an extended period than these "luxury" goodies.  Because they are not engaged in production.

Granted, integrity, trust, resilience, harmony etc are important.  But that doesn't explain why the Asian Tiger is different except why absence of these values can guarantee stagnation.

People can tick off all those attributes Ndemo mentions and still remain very poor.

[RV Pundit]

I think he explains how they turned from not making things to making things..principally for me...through the injection of billion dollars from US...and then reforms of their land, agri, industrial, education sector.
For me I see development as gradual process...Africa is developing..but perhaps at not the same speed. Africans are reforming; they are urbanizing; they are doing manufacturing; they are opening bank accounts;build infrastructures; improving electricity connections; education access and quality;democratizing; all that can be summarize by looking at GDP growth rates; on average Africa have been growing at 6% for last nearly 20yrs; among the top 10 growing countries; you'll find about 5 are Africans; Ethiopia has been growing at double digit; of course it will take time; but Ethiopia is no longer a basket case of famine.

My point; we tend to denigrate ourselves as Africa; and yet we are doing well; we can do more; but for the first time in decade; Africa IS RISING; We are following the Asian tigers.

The rise of South Asians from the same agrarian lifestyles some 50 yrs ago...shows why Africa is and will do it. It unprecedented growth for Africa..previously it been stop and go....now we are seeing a generation that has now lived on sustained economic growth...the laggards like somalia or south sudan...are now few and in between. Close home..Rwanda,TZ, Uganda, Ethiopia and Kenya have all been growing at nearly 7-10%...that is about the same growth rate some of Asian tigers grew themselves out of poverty.

I find him simplistic and unconvincing.  TZ, has more of those same values he attributes to South Asia than Kenya.  Yet one cannot argue that it has gained much over Kenya, besides national unity.

The reason the African is not making the long anticipated leap is because he is not making things.  As a result there is little economic activity outside of planting and extracting things from the ground. 

The population is rural.  They rarely use manufactured goods because they are expensive "luxuries".  They produce less value over an extended period than these "luxury" goodies.  Because they are not engaged in production.

Granted, integrity, trust, resilience, harmony etc are important.  But that doesn't explain why the Asian Tiger is different except why absence of these values can guarantee stagnation.

People can tick off all those attributes Ndemo mentions and still remain very poor.

[veritas]

I agree with the professor on communist / capitalist history although he didn't mention much about Taiwan's economic specialty, panda diplomacy threats from China etc. I don't agree with public morals. Korean politicians are savages and known to punch each other in parliament or the "blue house".

Politicians fight everywhere. They're disgusting in every country. It seems fairly obvious the professor sits in a high and mighty Ivory Tower dreaming up unicorns. In Korea, both my grandparents were killed in their 40s. There is a shell life, a bounty on individuals in the business world who do high profile economic stuff. They're Asian Tigers because they're ruthless at killing individuals for economic gain. Kill to loot.

There are age old moral respect, integrity etc. in familial networks but this is not the undercurrent of economic successes. War and influx of foreign intrusion and investment can propel a nation into development. Looking at the successes in Russia and Eastern Europe after the Cold War too, those successes can be attributed to familial mafia protecting private assets for public benefit. So Russia's economy began reaching heights when familial mafia groups functioned as private militias in protecting banks and money endowed institutions and networks.

In Africa, there is too much looting and not enough protection of assets by familial groups.

In Korea, bloodlines and familial groups run a monopoly of certain assets. So for instance, Hyundai is run by the royal bloodline and are scattered throughout the globe taking on corporate responsibilities tethered to familial legacies. Singapore became rich when their royal bloodline imposed economic models and rules to make foreign investment an easy haven. This kind of commitment to familial legacy isn't really in places like China. China relies a lot on communal or communist work ethics. There's a bit of it in Kenya for tribal legacies but not as prominent for protecting assets.