SGR construction ahead of schedule

[RV Pundit]

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http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000174167/kenya-sgr-construction-ahead-of-schedule

[veritas]

Made in China is ALWAYS ahead of schedule.

Rule of thumb my dad taught me. Never install made in China electrical products or systems. Whole houses and enterprises have burnt down because of made in China cabling to lights.

I hope to god non Chinese inspectors re-engineer tracts before opening to the public.

[RV Pundit]

They use to say the same about US then Japanase then Korea then Taiwan then China...right now I would say stay away from made in Thailand or Indonesia or Vietnam.

Made in China is ALWAYS ahead of schedule.

Rule of thumb my dad taught me. Never install made in China electrical products or systems. Whole houses and enterprises have burnt down because of made in China cabling to lights.

I hope to god non Chinese inspectors re-engineer tracts before opening to the public.

[veritas]

America's electrical is bulky Fordian made in USA. USA uses sturdy energy heavy products but at least built to last. I didn't see a single LED light in USA. Made in Thailand, Vietnam, Korea is kosher. Korea is the forefront for LED products and their electrical products are industry leaders hence why Korea builds American naval ships, subs etc. Korea built Saudi Arabia's infrastructure (rail, road, electricity- yes my grandfather was part of that team in Saudi Arabia- I guess why my dad studied electrical engineer+MBA) when all other countries said it was impossible.

China is NOT by far. When they acquired Kia it went to the shits, same with Playstation to anything electrical, rail, telecommunications, industrial sectors the shits. The Chinese don't have market ingenuity and industrial innovation skills. Recall they only adopted capitalism and industrialism from the 70s and borrowed understandings and electrical knowledge/engineering from Taiwan. China was fully agrarian farming communists until the 70s. Poorer than the Soviets. Kenya was more industrial than China.

Shell life for electrical products made in China is a day to a couple months. I know many electrical contractors who installed Made in China electrical products to then have customer's premises burnt down. There's a flood of cheap Chinese electrical/industrial products in the market right now.

No doubt the reason why that rail procurement was so darn cheap.

[Georgesoros]

Thats true Veritas. I recently had an electrician do some electrical work and he told me never to use Chinese electrical stuff till they come up with standardization. They last half as much.
Pundit. Yes Japanese products were inferior in the 1970s but they started to starndadize. Give me a LEXUS man, that car rocks.

[RV Pundit]

Can we have more than anecdotal evidence of China substandard products with reference to last few years. China have made tremendous unprecedented progress in every indicator in very short time and I can tell your that perception is more than 10yrs later. I have no ambivalent buying made in china anymore. And that is true for nearly everyone.Chinese produces Iphones and pretty much everything....their companies started like everyone else..counterfeiting..then became contract manufacturers...then learnt internation standards...and are now driving the next decade or century of new standards..you just need to see the patents chinese are filling.

[veritas]

Not for industrial. China doesn't have a footing except recently in Africa. Even North Korea build Chinese military gear. If you've taught a Chinese kid or worked with a Chinese colleague you'll get what I mean. China needs to develop more industrial strength in their own economy to be a global market player. Just because foreign markets abuse the cheap labour offered in China doesn't mean a made in China product is a Chinese product. I've yet to get my hands on a quality Chinese brand.

A major problem is access to quality resources and skilled workers. For instance, all Koreans go to college and are brainy and have a solid history in making war machines and have access to raw materials because they share a tight history with Americans and Arabs. Most Chinese people residing in China are uneducated, not brainy, have limited access to raw material, and don't have a solid history in making war machines. This is why Chinese products don't last.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Not for industrial. China doesn't have a footing except recently in Africa. Even North Korea build Chinese military gear. If you've taught a Chinese kid or worked with a Chinese colleague you'll get what I mean. China needs to develop more industrial strength in their own economy to be a global market player. Just because foreign markets abuse the cheap labour offered in China doesn't mean a made in China product is a Chinese product. I've yet to get my hands on a quality Chinese brand.

A major problem is access to quality resources and skilled workers. For instance, all Koreans go to college and are brainy and have a solid history in making war machines and have access to raw materials because they share a tight history with Americans and Arabs. Most Chinese people residing in China are uneducated, not brainy, have limited access to raw material, and don't have a solid history in making war machines. This is why Chinese products don't last.

I believe China makes products of differing quality for different markets.  There is the junk that most people associate them with, and there is the stuff that has to be sold in developed markets that has to meet certain standards.  That said, quality has never been the key selling point for Chinese goods.  Theirs has always been about cost.

[MOON Ki]

When they acquired Kia it went to the shits,

They did not acquire Kia, whose "parent" company is still Hyundai.   The dodgy cars being produced under the Kia label in China are in fact the products of Dongfeng Yueda Kia Motor Co, of which Kia is one of three partners.

[Georgesoros]

Yes, That is a fact.
Developed countries have standards of what can be imported.  Electricals have to meet certain UL minimum standards. When i got a Chinese made heater, it lasted a season vs one that I've had for years. It was cheap though.

Not for industrial. China doesn't have a footing except recently in Africa. Even North Korea build Chinese military gear. If you've taught a Chinese kid or worked with a Chinese colleague you'll get what I mean. China needs to develop more industrial strength in their own economy to be a global market player. Just because foreign markets abuse the cheap labour offered in China doesn't mean a made in China product is a Chinese product. I've yet to get my hands on a quality Chinese brand.

A major problem is access to quality resources and skilled workers. For instance, all Koreans go to college and are brainy and have a solid history in making war machines and have access to raw materials because they share a tight history with Americans and Arabs. Most Chinese people residing in China are uneducated, not brainy, have limited access to raw material, and don't have a solid history in making war machines. This is why Chinese products don't last.

I believe China makes products of differing quality for different markets.  There is the junk that most people associate them with, and there is the stuff that has to be sold in developed markets that has to meet certain standards.  That said, quality has never been the key selling point for Chinese goods.  Theirs has always been about cost.

[MOON Ki]

In the SGR matter, I am still partial to view of the Japanese railway experts who advised that building new things is pointless before folks learn some things about maintenance (and also how to make better use of what they have).

Whether or not these railways being built in Africa will last, or are of questionable quality, remains to be seen.    Perhaps we could look at how the Chinese do things for themselves:

When it comes to roads and bridges, some things are now routine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/asia/collapse-of-new-bridge-underscores-chinas-infrastructure-concerns.html?_r=0

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8

And railways?

About 4 years ago, there was a high-speed train crash in China.   About 40 people were killed and around 200 injured.   At the top of the list of issues that caused the accident, the official report had these:

* The equipment used for signal and control was crappy and should never have been installed in the first place.

* The construction schedule had been compressed, which meant that safety inspections were not conducted to the extent that should have been.

Perhaps they save their highest-quality work for Africa?   Only time will tell.

[veritas]

I agree.

Hyandai donated Kia to China. The parts and design are done in China. My uncle owns a couple Hyundai car part making factories in Indonesia. No joke. His daughter my cousin who stays with us at times in Sydney is an industrial architect. She studied her degree in France and designs factories. The engineer who designed North Korea's solid and still going strong renowned roads in the CBD region resides in Sydney a few blocks up the road from us. No joke. They are a long time family friend and we'd get together on weekends when I was a kid, although their kids were in their 30s and married at the time. Thx for the reminder MK. I'm going to go visit them.

[veritas]

I just spoke to dear ma about it over a cuppa. She keeps in touch with them. She went... visit which house? They have houses all over the world. The ones I know of are in Vietnam, Hong Kong and China. They separated because of his gambling addiction. He's a famous engineer and designed the first expressways in North Korea and also in South Korea. I don't know where he is now. But she's with her first daughter in America right now visiting her grand-daughter. They have three beautiful daughters. The first fell in love with an American man so they married her off (arranged marriage) with a rich titled Korean- an accountant from a rich family. I met him. They instantly divorced and she got back with the American, they married and moved to America and have a daughter. The second fell in love with a little Chinese guy who helped her with her studies in university. They didn't approve of the marriage and didn't go to the wedding. I can't remember what happened to the third.

Well... seems they're not in Sydney right now..

[Reticent Solipsist]

In the SGR matter, I am still partial to view of the Japanese railway experts who advised that building new things is pointless before folks learn some things about maintenance (and also how to make better use of what they have).

Whether or not these railways being built in Africa will last, or are of questionable quality, remains to be seen.    Perhaps we could look at how the Chinese do things for themselves:

When it comes to roads and bridges, some things are now routine:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/asia/collapse-of-new-bridge-underscores-chinas-infrastructure-concerns.html?_r=0

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8

And railways?

About 4 years ago, there was a high-speed train crash in China.   About 40 people were killed and around 200 injured.   At the top of the list of issues that caused the accident, the official report had these:

* The equipment used for signal and control was crappy and should never have been installed in the first place.

* The construction schedule had been compressed, which meant that safety inspections were not conducted to the extent that should have been.

Perhaps they save their highest-quality work for Africa?   Only time will tell.

That high-speed train crash occured when I was visiting Japan, and I distinctly recall the heavy-handed approach taken by the Chinese government in their futile attempt to squelch media coverage of this avoidable crash.

On what the Chinese sell to Africa, I would aver that MOON Ki is right on the money -- don't hold your breath, folks.

[RV Pundit]

Sounds like old reputations.

Chinese have executed many projects in kenya in the last 10yrs..and they've been well done..on cost & time. Their roads are just miles away from any competition. If it was upto kenyans..all the road contracts would be given to Chinese!

Nobody build railways like the chinese are doing. Anywhere in the world. You can talk endlessy about an single accident....but for a country that has added more railway than probably the whole world combine in very short years...that won't take away the CHINA amazing engineering. China last I checked were graduating millions of engineers!

SGR is already past 50% mark...and the interesting thing...Chinese are not using lots of stones...just red soil compacted with some stabilizers!

Right now Chinese are nearly there in nearly everything.....

[veritas]

RVP, I'm assuming you don't know many engineers personally.

[RV Pundit]

Veri, yes and no.

RVP, I'm assuming you don't know many engineers personally.

[veritas]

RVP, thanks for the clarification.

Imagine you had to build an elaborate ramp for your daughter to get into her immaculate Barbie castle outside your shamba. Would you hire an engineer from China?

Kenya deserves the best, she deserves to be safe, she deserves to be strong.

Strong infrastructure not only break or make nations, it charters a legacy. Moscow has some of the sturdiest engineering in the world rooted from its history i.e. passionate, patriotic, idealistic, beautification projects by Lenin. Would Lenin have hired a Chinese engineer?

[RV Pundit]

Veri, chinese doesn't equate to substandard. I think the only engineering marvel that really astound me is what Egyptian did some yrs ago...at those pyramids..but would I trust Egyptian to do it now..maybe not..

RVP, thanks for the clarification.

Imagine you had to build an elaborate ramp for your daughter to get into her immaculate Barbie castle outside your shamba. Would you hire an engineer from China?

Kenya deserves the best, she deserves to be safe, she deserves to be strong.

Strong infrastructure not only break or make nations, it charters a legacy. Moscow has some of the sturdiest engineering in the world rooted from its history i.e. passionate, patriotic, idealistic, beautification projects by Lenin. Would Lenin have hired a Chinese engineer?

[RV Pundit]