How powerful is Jimmy Wanjigi?

[patel]

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Tony Gachoka just found out, James Bond owns them all in kenya from senior politicians,  senior police to the judges. In kenya where a village chicken thief is celebrated more than Olympic champion, Wanjigi is king.

[Kadudu]

Very powerful. The man was well connected in the Moi regime. In the Kibaki regime he rose up to be the man behind Anglo Leasing. Now in the Kenyatta regime he is in mafia language "Il supremo" ("the supreme one").
Just look for his images in the internet and you will see how had it is to get more than one image of this faceless fellow.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Githongo fled Kenya after this character politely offered him a taste of the afterlife.  According to wikileaks. 

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06NAIROBI944_a.html

[vooke]

Githongo fled Kenya after this character politely offered him a taste of the afterlife.  According to wikileaks. 

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06NAIROBI944_a.html

Am still amazed by the thoroughness of bazungu

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Githongo fled Kenya after this character politely offered him a taste of the afterlife.  According to wikileaks. 

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06NAIROBI944_a.html

Am still amazed by the thoroughness of bazungu

They just do their job.  What is amazing to me is how Angloleasing culprits are still walking.  Not just walking but actually demanding and getting payments.

[Omollo]

Termie

Anglo Leasing and Goldenberg can never be addressed by the current political class.

Had Raila come to power in 2007, the VP would have been Mudavadi. In event PNU stayed in power and Saitoti was there. Mudavadi was also deeply inside Anglo Leasing. Now Obure has been negotiating for a way out while Mudavadi has already secured a Stay Out of Jail Card. He helped Uhuru cut off Raila and has agreed to do it again.

Unless you have a coup - Samuel Doe style - and parade these people and ask them to confess so they are jailed instead of being shot, their hubris is so huge they can't imagine being brought for trial.

There are ways of dealing with Jimmy however I doubt that he has the amount of power attributed to him. He like Sonko must be some extortionist who shakes down deal makers using Uhuru's name. He may have gained access to one of the EJK units - something that is easy when one has some coins and the right number to call.

[MOON Ki]

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06NAIROBI944_a.html

Staggering figures:

The $700 million at stake in the subset of corrupt deals investigated by  Githongo alone far exceeds annual donor assistance flows to  Kenya, a country which recently asked the international  community for $230 million in emergency food aid and in  which 56% of the population lives on a dollar a day or  less.

It is such that make me chuckle when I am told that rich countries have a "moral obligation" to help places like Kenya and people go as far as complaining that they aren't getting enough "help".

[RV Pundit]

Who stole the money..the victims of poverty or the fat cats. Didn't the fat cats who stole the money not use international connections? Doesn't they rich countries not have the moral obligation to help us fight graft by nailing the international friends of Wanjigis and of course help the poor victims of the same graft.

It is such that make me chuckle when I am told that rich countries have a "moral obligation" to help places like Kenya and people go as far as complaining that they aren't getting enough "help".

[Omollo]

I partially agree. However note that Kenya has been very uncooperative when it comes to being helped to nab thieves. Here are some recent examples

1. Justice Nyamu outlaws seeking such help from Switzerland - to protect Kamani, Wanjigi etc
2. Okemo and Gichuru - free men. They are even parading the fact that they were never charged in Kenya as proof of their "innocence"
3. Poland demands the extradition of Kabogo / Joho for drugs - Even the media went dumb

One can't expect the developed countries to help if the government has placed itself as the protector of these shadowy figures.

Who stole the money..the victims of poverty or the fat cats. Didn't the fat cats who stole the money not use international connections? Doesn't they rich countries not have the moral obligation to help us fight graft by nailing the international friends of Wanjigis and of course help the poor victims of the same graft.

It is such that make me chuckle when I am told that rich countries have a "moral obligation" to help places like Kenya and people go as far as complaining that they aren't getting enough "help".

[RV Pundit]

You're just describing our corruption complex. That doesn't stop the developed nations from nailing their own including banks where the money is kept. Swiss for instance doesn't need Africa blood money and should have long ago repatriated the  billions parked there..to countries like Kenya, Congo,Nigeria and etc. They can change the law to take evidence from non-gov actors and declare assets held by foreigners to be illegal. You cannot demand evidence of judicial action from a corrupt justice system.

The victim here remain the poor kenyan tax payer being fleeced. He or she deserve all the help. Of course it our primary responsibility as kenyans to help our selves..and we have  been doing remarkably well by sacking 70% of Mps and political class.

I partially agree. However note that Kenya has been very uncooperative when it comes to being helped to nab thieves. Here are some recent examples

1. Justice Nyamu outlaws seeking such help from Switzerland - to protect Kamani, Wanjigi etc
2. Okemo and Gichuru - free men. They are even parading the fact that they were never charged in Kenya as proof of their "innocence"
3. Poland demands the extradition of Kabogo / Joho for drugs - Even the media went dumb

One can't expect the developed countries to help if the government has placed itself as the protector of these shadowy figures.

[Omollo]

The Swiss have in the past launched suo moto investigations leading to the repatriation of stolen money. I have in mind the Philippines' Marcos billions and the Abacha loot.

Kenya has never made any request for repatriation of funds. All that is required is a simple note from the government - even on a toilet paper - delivered to the ministry of foreign affairs, of Swiss Embassy. NGOs could also file a complaint with any police station in Switzerland and it will be acted upon. The law is such that it cannot be ignored without consequences!

You're just describing our corruption complex. That doesn't stop the developed nations from nailing their own including banks where the money is kept. Swiss for instance doesn't need Africa blood money and should have long ago repatriated the  billions parked there..to countries like Kenya, Congo,Nigeria and etc. They can change the law to take evidence from non-gov actors and declare assets held by foreigners to be illegal. You cannot demand evidence of judicial action from a corrupt justice system.

The victim here remain the poor kenyan tax payer being fleeced. He or she deserve all the help. Of course it our primary responsibility as kenyans to help our selves..and we have  been doing remarkably well by sacking 70% of Mps and political class.

[MOON Ki]

Doesn't they rich countries not have the moral obligation to help us fight graft by nailing the international friends of Wanjigis and of course help the poor victims of the same graft.

On what basis do you say that they have a moral obligation?   

[RV Pundit]

What do you understand first by moral obligation. For me it means doing something you do not have to do. Because it a good thing to do.Nobody will hold them legally. But morally they are as bankrupt as wanjigi.

What I understand here is simple. Here is rich developed country whose systems [anglo leasing didn't have addresses in karatina and the money was wired outside the country] are being used to fleece a poor third world country. Swiss and Brits have moral obligation to nap Wanjigi and his friends who opened phoney companies under their jurisdiction,using phoney addresses in the same places, bank accounts, and got money wired directly.

At worse they can arrest them for money laundering. That remain the only hope against some of our powerful characters. If Wanjigi assets are seized..abroad...there is some chance..we will get something back.

Of course we know what Brits and Swiss do..turn a blind eye...as they set them phoney islands like cayman to fleece poor countries.

On what basis do you say that they have a moral obligation?   

[RV Pundit]

Would the swiss allow terrorist to do the same. And wait for some toilet paper. The swiss, the brits and most of developed world benefits from grand corruption in third world...whatever they returned from Abacha loot was very little.

Why does developed world allows criminals to use their banking system to loot in the first place.

Where is their Know your Customer.

The Swiss have in the past launched suo moto investigations leading to the repatriation of stolen money. I have in mind the Philippines' Marcos billions and the Abacha loot.

Kenya has never made any request for repatriation of funds. All that is required is a simple note from the government - even on a toilet paper - delivered to the ministry of foreign affairs, of Swiss Embassy. NGOs could also file a complaint with any police station in Switzerland and it will be acted upon. The law is such that it cannot be ignored without consequences!

[Kadudu]

Jersey tried to nap Samuel Gichuru and Chris Okemo. The cash is still pending in Kenyan courts now a few years as the two fugitives enjoy their stolen loot. We cannot only blame the wazungus for our shortcomings as you can see in this case it is us blocking the road to our own justice.

Why does developed world allows criminals to use their banking system to loot in the first place.

[MOON Ki]

What do you understand first by moral obligation. For me it means doing something you do not have to do.

I take understand it to mean what one would find in, say, a reasonable dictionary or the like: 

"A duty which one owes, and which he ought to perform, but  which he is not legally bound to fulfill."

Elsewhere, I find additional helpful information:

"A moral obligation is a duty or responsibility someone feels honor-bound to perform because of personal beliefs and values."

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-moral-obligation.htm

"Generally speaking, when someone says of an act that it is a "moral obligation," they refer to a belief that the act is one prescribed by their set of values".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_obligation

And so on, most other definitions being largely similar.

Here is why I ask:

The notion of "moral obligation" will vary from person to person and place to place; there is no absolute.    In the particular matter, the people in the rich countries may well ask why they should help when a government that is engaged in the theft of $700 million at the very same time is begging for $230 million from others.    So when one insists that in such a case they have a "duty" to help, one may well ask "on what basis?".   

[MOON Ki]

Why does developed world allows criminals to use their banking system to loot in the first place.

Their banks exist to make money for their people.   Why should it be their concern if others elsewhere steal money from their people and bank it with them?

At worse they can arrest them for money laundering.

Arrest them where and how?   Where are Okemo and Gichuru right now?

[RV Pundit]

No business be it bank or whatever exist to make money from illegal proceeds...be they corruption(crime) or drugs or terrorism. They have turn a blind eye on third world corruption..because it doesn't affect them..except when immigrants like you ran there and cause problems. Otherwise they have zero tolerance for money from drugs or terror activities.

The fact of matter is that our fat cats are using most of the time foreigners[mostly EU] to fleece us.

Their banks exist to make money for their people.   Why should it be their concern if others elsewhere steal money from their people and bank it with them?

[RV Pundit]

There is nothing to debate about this. Already the developed world accept their moral obligation by donating AID to us and lecturing us about ABCD. They do not have to donate their money to feed or clothe us..but they do it anyway. They should extend the same generosity into pursuing criminals like Angoleasing.

The notion of "moral obligation" will vary from person to person and place to place; there is no absolute.    In the particular matter, the people in the rich countries may well ask why they should help when a government that is engaged in the theft of $700 million at the very same time is begging for $230 million from others.    So when one insists that in such a case they have a "duty" to help, one may well ask "on what basis?".   

[RV Pundit]

Lesson learnt. Next time have unsealed warrants and then nap them fat cats on their foreign trips. They can even be invited to Jersey, they'll promptly show up and arrested. You cannot give up. You cannot allow that cynical myopic negativity to derail a country.

Jersey tried to nap Samuel Gichuru and Chris Okemo. The cash is still pending in Kenyan courts now a few years as the two fugitives enjoy their stolen loot. We cannot only blame the wazungus for our shortcomings as you can see in this case it is us blocking the road to our own justice.