Sister Nyaatha To Be Beatified

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

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An Italian nun, to be beatified in Nyeri.  If my understanding is correct, no local native, with full melanin component, could be found within the area worthy of the honor.

Venerable Irene Stefani (22 August 1891 - 31 October 1930), born Aurelia Mercede Stefani, was a Roman Catholic Italian nun and a member of the Consolata Missionary Sisters. She assumed the name "Irene" upon entrance into that order. Stefani was cleared for beatification in 2014 after a miracle found to have been attributed to her intercession was ratified, and she will be beatified on 23 May 2015 in Nyeri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Stefani
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/thecounties/article/2000159561/church-ready-for-sister-nyaatha-beatification-but-can-state-county-say-the-same
http://www.irenestefani.altervista.org/inglese/biografia_en.html

[Bella]

Well, natives have been catholic less than a century. And the nun is from a time when there were probably no native sisters at all. This is par for the course. Cardinal Otunga should be on his way very soon, only died about 10 years ago, so there's your native. Saints are not exactly common, Terminator, there are very few canonized saints outside Europe, including even bazungu countries like the USA et al, that have had catholics far longer than Kenya, but have very few "locally-produced" canonized saints. Uganda has several....all native. One of my favorite saints is a black Sudanese, St. Josephine Bakhita. Her story is very sad, a victim of slavery, you should read about her.

[GeeMail]

So this will make Nyaatha a saint? How is a saint made? At best I would call this a beautification ceremony. As in attempting to make a dead woman more beautiful by adding a pile of religious make-up. Luckily it will revamp tourism.

An Italian nun, to be beatified in Nyeri.  If my understanding is correct, no local native, with full melanin component, could be found within the area worthy of the honor.

Venerable Irene Stefani (22 August 1891 - 31 October 1930), born Aurelia Mercede Stefani, was a Roman Catholic Italian nun and a member of the Consolata Missionary Sisters. She assumed the name "Irene" upon entrance into that order. Stefani was cleared for beatification in 2014 after a miracle found to have been attributed to her intercession was ratified, and she will be beatified on 23 May 2015 in Nyeri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Stefani
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/thecounties/article/2000159561/church-ready-for-sister-nyaatha-beatification-but-can-state-county-say-the-same
http://www.irenestefani.altervista.org/inglese/biografia_en.html

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

So this will make Nyaatha a saint? How is a saint made? At best I would call this a beautification ceremony. As in attempting to make a dead woman more beautiful by adding a pile of religious make-up. Luckily it will revamp tourism.

An Italian nun, to be beatified in Nyeri.  If my understanding is correct, no local native, with full melanin component, could be found within the area worthy of the honor.

Venerable Irene Stefani (22 August 1891 - 31 October 1930), born Aurelia Mercede Stefani, was a Roman Catholic Italian nun and a member of the Consolata Missionary Sisters. She assumed the name "Irene" upon entrance into that order. Stefani was cleared for beatification in 2014 after a miracle found to have been attributed to her intercession was ratified, and she will be beatified on 23 May 2015 in Nyeri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Stefani
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/thecounties/article/2000159561/church-ready-for-sister-nyaatha-beatification-but-can-state-county-say-the-same
http://www.irenestefani.altervista.org/inglese/biografia_en.html

I believe the logic is that she is already one.  That this is merely a formality.  Veneration of saints is a big deal in the Catholic church.

@Bella,

I just thought it would have been nice to the sensibilities of the locals.  To not beatify a muzungu in their backyard.  Not even a token local of the Kalulu variety to escort her.

[Bella]

So this will make Nyaatha a saint? How is a saint made? At best I would call this a beautification ceremony. As in attempting to make a dead woman more beautiful by adding a pile of religious make-up. Luckily it will revamp tourism.

An Italian nun, to be beatified in Nyeri.  If my understanding is correct, no local native, with full melanin component, could be found within the area worthy of the honor.

Venerable Irene Stefani (22 August 1891 - 31 October 1930), born Aurelia Mercede Stefani, was a Roman Catholic Italian nun and a member of the Consolata Missionary Sisters. She assumed the name "Irene" upon entrance into that order. Stefani was cleared for beatification in 2014 after a miracle found to have been attributed to her intercession was ratified, and she will be beatified on 23 May 2015 in Nyeri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Stefani
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/thecounties/article/2000159561/church-ready-for-sister-nyaatha-beatification-but-can-state-county-say-the-same
http://www.irenestefani.altervista.org/inglese/biografia_en.html

Saints are made by the Holy Spirit starting the moment the person turns his life over to God, culminating when they enter heaven at death. When the church canonizes someone, what she is saying is that she believes that this person is in heaven and their lives can serve as examples of Christian living to those on earth. Heroic virtue.

[GeeMail]

Bella thanks for the response and good to see you post.

Saints are made by the Holy Spirit starting the moment the person turns his life over to God, culminating when they enter heaven at death.

Really? Do you have any examples where the Holy Spirit made someone a saint in this manner? Is there a biblical example of such a person entering heaven at death?

When the church canonizes someone, what she is saying is that she believes that this person is in heaven and their lives can serve as examples of Christian living to those on earth. Heroic virtue.

Is there a biblical basis for canonizing people? Why should the church rather than God decide who is in heaven or who goes to heaven? What about those who are dead but not canonized by the church - where are they from what the Bible says? Why is their destiny decided differently and by whom? An good people who die and are not canonized serve as examples too?

Christians follow the Bible. Should anybody be found follow to anything else, should such a person be known as Christian?

[Bella]

Bella thanks for the response and good to see you post.

Saints are made by the Holy Spirit starting the moment the person turns his life over to God, culminating when they enter heaven at death.

Really? Do you have any examples where the Holy Spirit made someone a saint in this manner? Is there a biblical example of such a person entering heaven at death?

Sure. All the apostles and martyrs are saints and are in heaven.

Christians follow the Bible. Should anybody be found follow to anything else, should such a person be known as Christian?

Do you consider Ellen G White's visions part of "anything else"? Do you think those who follow them ought to be called Christians, lol! Daily Bread, I honestly don't care one whit what you think a Christian is since I don't think you or your church own a copyright of the Christian faith. Peace!

[bittertruth]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

[Bella]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

Bittertruth, respectfully, I know what Daily Bread is saying. I just don't agree! Though I don't how salvation is equated with intercession... I'm sure when you pray for your friends you don't consider yourself their personal savior. Yes, recognizing saints and invoking their help/prayers is a catholic tradition, no problem there. 

[GeeMail]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

I know what Daily Bread is saying and I just don't agree, simple! Though I don't how salvation is equated with intercession... I'm sure when you pray for your friends you don't consider yourself their personal savior. Yes, recognizing saints and invoking their help/prayers is a catholic tradition, no problem there. 

What I'm asking is whether there is any biblical basis for canonization. Anything the Bible tells us to do we should do and encourage each other to do it. Since we find no biblical basis for canonization, we judge (as it to choose between right and wrong) it unbiblical.

About intercession, does God ask us to pray for others? There are numerous examples of intercession by living believers, not dead ones, in the Bible.

Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

2 Corinthians 1:11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

Let me ask again, how do living believers on earth know that Nyaatha is in heaven?

[GeeMail]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

Thanks Bittertruth. Precise and to the point. If good dead people go to heaven when they die (or when canonized in this case), Christ does not need to come again as He promised in John 14. All he needs to do is to read a list of good saints and arrange for a papal nuncio to canonize them.

[Bella]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

I know what Daily Bread is saying and I just don't agree, simple! Though I don't how salvation is equated with intercession... I'm sure when you pray for your friends you don't consider yourself their personal savior. Yes, recognizing saints and invoking their help/prayers is a catholic tradition, no problem there. 

What I'm asking is whether there is any biblical basis for canonization. Anything the Bible tells us to do we should do and encourage each other to do it. Since we find no biblical basis for canonization, we judge (as it to choose between right and wrong) it unbiblical.

About intercession, does God ask us to pray for others? There are numerous examples of intercession by living believers, not dead ones, in the Bible.

Luke 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

2 Corinthians 1:11 Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

1 Thessalonians 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

Let me ask again, how do living believers on earth know that Nyaatha is in heaven?

Daily Bread, you see, I could annoy you by asking you where it says to follow Ellen G white in the Bible, but I am not doing this with you-- that's what I'm saying. Just pack this under the catholic file of horrors, convince yourself about owning the "Christian" label that pre-exists you by nearly 2 millennia, and be happy.

[GeeMail]

Thanks once again. As you know from Voke's nightmares on this website already, I'm not easily scared off by questions on Ellen G. White. Whether the questions annoy or not does not matter. Maybe you should ask that question separately rather than use it to deflect the question on whether canonization is biblical or not.

[Bella]

Thanks once again. As you know from Voke's nightmares on this website already, I'm not easily scared off by questions on Ellen G. White. Whether the questions annoy or not does not matter. Maybe you should ask that question separately rather than use it to deflect the question on whether canonization is biblical or not.

I am not interested in the question of Ellen G White or whatever, that's just the point I made, strange you keep missing it. I brought her up because you claimed that those who follow "anything else" ought not be called Christians, ironically You want to find answers about canonization, how about you grab a book and read? It's the 21st century and I'm not your research assistant.

But If you are interested in a genuine convo, though, I will participate.

[bittertruth]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

Bittertruth, respectfully, I know what Daily Bread is saying. I just don't agree! Though I don't how salvation is equated with intercession... I'm sure when you pray for your friends you don't consider yourself their personal savior. Yes, recognizing saints and invoking their help/prayers is a catholic tradition, no problem there. 

Bella, All believers are equally precious in the sight of God and there is none who can boast of any special place before Him. Developing a cultus around a deceased person to whom we offer prayers and petitions borders on necromancy. Consulting the dead is strictly forbidden in Scripture (Deut 18:11).
In RC practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances even worshipped. But nowhere does the Bible encourage seeking the attention or favour of those who have died, and praying to the dead is strictly forbidden.

[Bella]

Bella,
I think what DB is saying is that beatification is not Biblical. It is a Catholic tradition, not a biblical concept.
Whoever accepts Jesus, becomes a Saint. It is the only way to get to heaven, since Jesus carried with all the sins of the world to make us worthy. Only Jesus can save no other person can be prayed to for to intercede for them.

Bittertruth, respectfully, I know what Daily Bread is saying. I just don't agree! Though I don't how salvation is equated with intercession... I'm sure when you pray for your friends you don't consider yourself their personal savior. Yes, recognizing saints and invoking their help/prayers is a catholic tradition, no problem there. 

Bella, All believers are equally precious in the sight of God and there is none who can boast of any special place before Him. Developing a cultus around a deceased person to whom we offer prayers and petitions borders on necromancy. Consulting the dead is strictly forbidden in Scripture (Deut 18:11).
In RC practice, the saints are revered, prayed to, and in some instances even worshipped. But nowhere does the Bible encourage seeking the attention or favour of those who have died, and praying to the dead is strictly forbidden.

Saints are not worshipped in the catholic church, they are very much revered and asked for intercession. Scripture forbids summoning and consulting the dead to receive communication beyond the grave, which is what necromancy is, Catholics don't do that, in fact it is forbidden. Intercession involves a one way street where you say a prayer, not engaging in a chat with a ghost from the grave. Just to clarify.

[Bella]

Ok, today is clearly not a good morning for me. I can tell when I start being deliberately unkind and refuse to engage. I am just not interested in another useless debate that will leave us all exactly where we started in our beliefs, just seems pointless more and more, these days. I am sorry about the snarkiness in my posts. I really should take a time out. Enjoy your nipate convos, don't let Bella ruin it for y'all.

[GeeMail]

Saints are not worshipped in the catholic church, they are very much revered and asked for intercession.

Scripture forbids summoning and consulting the dead to receive communication beyond the grave, which is what necromancy is, Catholics don't do that, in fact it is forbidden. Intercession involves a one way street where you say a prayer, not engaging in a chat with a ghost from the grave. Just to clarify.

There is no difference between necromancy and asking dead people to intercede for you. Dead people including Mary know nothing and have no capacity to intercede for living saints. In any case, living saints can pray for themselves since believers all have access to Christ.

John 16:25-27King James Version (KJV)

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Hebrews 4:15-16King James Version (KJV)
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

When you pray to dead people to intercede for you, demons can take advantage and may even answer your prayers to entrench your worship of them in rebellion to God.

A quote from The Great Controversy:
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc34.html

When they have been led to believe that the dead actually return to communicate with them, Satan causes those to appear who went into the grave unprepared. They claim to be happy in heaven and even to occupy exalted positions there, and thus the error is widely taught that no difference is made between the righteous and the wicked. The pretended visitants from the world of spirits sometimes utter cautions and warnings which prove to be correct. Then, as confidence is gained, they present doctrines that directly undermine faith in the Scriptures. With an appearance of deep interest in the well-being of their friends on earth, they insinuate the most dangerous errors. The fact that they state some truths, and are able at times to foretell future events, gives to their statements an appearance of reliability; and their false teachings are accepted by the multitudes as readily, and believed as implicitly, as if they were the most sacred truths of the Bible. The law of God is set aside, the Spirit of grace despised, the blood of the covenant counted an unholy thing. The spirits deny the deity of Christ and place even the Creator on a level with themselves. Thus under a new disguise the great rebel

553

still carries on his warfare against God, begun in heaven and for nearly six thousand years continued upon the earth.

This is how pata-potea works. I'll not forget how many times women, men and children cried in the market when the Pata-Potea man finished his work. He began with some guests who appeared to invest 100 kwacha to identify a woozy card being shuffled all over the deck. They always won and walked away smiling. Seeing the winner, women, men and children also approached the table and invested. At first, they won a couple of shillings, then when the game got really interesting, they put in a huge amount hoping for huge benefits. This is how Satan and his demons work through necromancy and prayers to the dead. First, you pray for success in the exam, then for a car, then for a promotion, then for a relative's health. Soon enough you are praying to the demons and Satan himself and getting answers. You can tell the devil and his demons won't be telling you Jesus wants you to repent, keep God's law and read His word to prepare for His soon return.

[GeeMail]

This is how pata-potea works. I'll not forget how many times women, men and children cried in the market when the Pata-Potea man finished his work. He began with some guests who appeared to invest 100 kwacha to identify a woozy card being shuffled all over the deck. They always won and walked away smiling. Seeing the winner, women, men and children also approached the table and invested. At first, they won a couple of shillings, then when the game got really interesting, they put in a huge amount hoping for huge benefits. This is how Satan and his demons work through necromancy and prayers to the dead. First, you pray for success in the exam, then for a car, then for a promotion, then for a relative's health. Soon enough you are praying to the demons and Satan himself and getting answers. You can tell the devil and his demons won't be telling you Jesus wants you to repent, keep God's law and read His word to prepare for His soon return.

[Bella]

Now that you got that load of conspiracy off your chest, I hope you feel better. 

Pray for us, Most Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ our Lord, and especially for Daily Bread, who believes that demons have power to hijack and answer petitions directed heavenward for intercession with the Most Blessed Trinity, this I ask you and the rest of "the spirits of the just made perfect" and the heavenly cloud of witnesses that by divine providence mercifully surrounds us at all times on our earthly sourjourn, Amen. 

Saints are not worshipped in the catholic church, they are very much revered and asked for intercession.

Scripture forbids summoning and consulting the dead to receive communication beyond the grave, which is what necromancy is, Catholics don't do that, in fact it is forbidden. Intercession involves a one way street where you say a prayer, not engaging in a chat with a ghost from the grave. Just to clarify.

There is no difference between necromancy and asking dead people to intercede for you. Dead people including Mary know nothing and have no capacity to intercede for living saints. In any case, living saints can pray for themselves since believers all have access to Christ.

John 16:25-27King James Version (KJV)

25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Hebrews 4:15-16King James Version (KJV)
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

When you pray to dead people to intercede for you, demons can take advantage and may even answer your prayers to entrench your worship of them in rebellion to God.

A quote from The Great Controversy:
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/gc/gc34.html

When they have been led to believe that the dead actually return to communicate with them, Satan causes those to appear who went into the grave unprepared. They claim to be happy in heaven and even to occupy exalted positions there, and thus the error is widely taught that no difference is made between the righteous and the wicked. The pretended visitants from the world of spirits sometimes utter cautions and warnings which prove to be correct. Then, as confidence is gained, they present doctrines that directly undermine faith in the Scriptures. With an appearance of deep interest in the well-being of their friends on earth, they insinuate the most dangerous errors. The fact that they state some truths, and are able at times to foretell future events, gives to their statements an appearance of reliability; and their false teachings are accepted by the multitudes as readily, and believed as implicitly, as if they were the most sacred truths of the Bible. The law of God is set aside, the Spirit of grace despised, the blood of the covenant counted an unholy thing. The spirits deny the deity of Christ and place even the Creator on a level with themselves. Thus under a new disguise the great rebel

553

still carries on his warfare against God, begun in heaven and for nearly six thousand years continued upon the earth.

This is how pata-potea works. I'll not forget how many times women, men and children cried in the market when the Pata-Potea man finished his work. He began with some guests who appeared to invest 100 kwacha to identify a woozy card being shuffled all over the deck. They always won and walked away smiling. Seeing the winner, women, men and children also approached the table and invested. At first, they won a couple of shillings, then when the game got really interesting, they put in a huge amount hoping for huge benefits. This is how Satan and his demons work through necromancy and prayers to the dead. First, you pray for success in the exam, then for a car, then for a promotion, then for a relative's health. Soon enough you are praying to the demons and Satan himself and getting answers. You can tell the devil and his demons won't be telling you Jesus wants you to repent, keep God's law and read His word to prepare for His soon return.