Xenophobia in SA

[MOON Ki]

RSA has to really deal with Xenophobia (symptom) of the wide divide btw rich (mostly whites) and poor blacks.

Er, em, ... the real divide these days is between the poor blacks and the "elite blacks" that are eating like nobody's business and have forgotten what the apartheid struggle was all about.

[Georgesoros]

I didnt know South Africans have so little education especially after 20yrs of independence. Zuma is busy with more wives instead of more education. What a pity.

[gout]

time to go Mugabe .... elitist South Africa has been scoffing at Mugabenomics and here they are ..the whites do not stand a chance with Malema unless they poison him today

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Jake Zuma wonders out loud why other Africans are in South Africa instead of their countries.  He says the murdered Mozambican was an illegal immigrant who used a false name.

http://mgafrica.com/article/2015-04-27-on-xenophobic-attacks-zuma-asks-africa-why-are-their-citizens-not-in-their-countries-and-are-in-south-africa#.VT501qUVhBf

[MOON Ki]

He was crude and insensitive in bring up the specific case of Manuel from Mozambique, but would he be Zuma otherwise.   Nevertheless, he does have a point in this:

Zuma said a frank conversation on illegal immigrants needed to take place within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) as well as the African Union.

And in that regard, it is important to make a difference between "economic refugees" and "people who need protection".    I have, for example, noted that some people will point to the fact that Kenya or this or that country hosts this or that number of refugees.     But they do not take into account that in Kenya, say, such people are confined in very unpleasant conditions, in a dusty place that even most Kenyans have no use for.   That is very different from having people all over the place, doing all sorts of things.

Before the Emotional Brigade storms out of its barracks: In no way am I saying that illegal immigrants in South Africa have not been badly treated or that they should not be protected against nasty & unwarranted  attacks or that South Africans should not be better educated .... 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

He was crude and insensitive in bring up the specific case of Manuel from Mozambique, but would he be Zuma otherwise.   Nevertheless, he does have a point in this:

Zuma said a frank conversation on illegal immigrants needed to take place within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) as well as the African Union.

And in that regard, it is important to make a difference between "economic refugees" and "people who need protection".    I have, for example, noted that some people will point to the fact that Kenya or this or that country hosts this or that number of refugees.     But they do not take into account that in Kenya, say, such people are confined in very unpleasant conditions, in a dusty place that even most Kenyans have no use for.   That is very different from having people all over the place, doing all sorts of things.

Before the Emotional Brigade storms out of its barracks: In no way am I saying that illegal immigrants in South Africa have not been badly treated or that they should not be protected against nasty & unwarranted  attacks or that South Africans should not be better educated .... 

While he also has a point about bad leadership in other African countries(even if his own is just as bad and worse).  He shows poor judgment in bringing it up at this time.  This is something they should be discussing during the annual orgies in Addis.

Ultimately I think South Africa should seek to be a place where other Africans want to move to.  I am yet to understand why instead of competing with the Asian tigers, South Africa is fighting with makwerekwere over crumbs.

[MOON Ki]

While he also has a point about bad leadership in other African countries(even if his own is just as bad and worse).  He shows poor judgment in bringing it up at this time.  This is something they should be discussing during the annual orgies in Addis.

Zuma showing poor judgment.  He, he, he, ... He is feeling the heat and reacting without really thinking.   My point, however, is that this is the sort of thing that won't be brought up at the "AU orgies", so there is one tiny positive element in his opening his big mouth.  I.e. "let's start to talk about it".

Ultimately I think South Africa should seek to be a place where other Africans want to move to.

I have always had higher hopes---that it can be an example that other African countries would wish to emulate.    Be like them, instead of having to join them.   

I am yet to understand why instead of competing with the Asian tigers, South Africa is fighting with makwerekwere over crumbs.

Indeed.  Countries like SA and Nigeria really ought to be the economic engines of the continent.   

[Bella]

RSA has to really deal with Xenophobia (symptom) of the wide divide btw rich (mostly whites) and poor blacks.

Er, em, ... the real divide these days is between the poor blacks and the "elite blacks" that are eating like nobody's business and have forgotten what the apartheid struggle was all about.

South African wealth is in the hands of whites. This is a self-evident fact, two minutes after you land at the airport. Especially in the Western Cape.

[RV Pundit]

So say an economic refugee whose spent all his life abroad...not because kenya was at any war..but because opportunities to make decent living are simply not there.South Africa is essentially suffering because Zim collapsed (what went down in Zim is not any different from war..)..

RSA is not any different from kenya...we can try to confine Somalis and Sudanese in Camps..but many of them have ended up in our towns.

Gov of RSA need to control immigrants and what they can do and not do. Some of them may have to be taken to Daadab like camps. Some of them allowed to freely move and work. Some of them taken to prison.

Before the Emotional Brigade storms out of its barracks: In no way am I saying that illegal immigrants in South Africa have not been badly treated or that they should not be protected against nasty & unwarranted  attacks or that South Africans should not be better educated .... 

[RV Pundit]

Don't interrupt the blame Africa and Africans for everything Moonki.

It rather obvious that South Africa really need to do something esp regarding land ownership. That will take away the anger that is boiling over in township.

Those south African unable to compete with even the lowest of immigrants..ought be out there..farming and foraging the land. But they can't because Mandela and RSA leaders..unlike Mugabe are not yet ready to deal with land questions.

It is like kenya getting independence and the white highlands are still largely intact.

RSA have to create opportunities for their downtrodden....immigrants are a sideshow...once they kick out immigrants...those guys will steal remain poor.

RSA black poor are uneducated (a legacy of apartheid)...and can only really function as farm hand and farm help. They need to own their land.

Here is ZUma still outlining proposals on land reforms in 2015!!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-31471427

Whilst...Two decades after the end of apartheid, land is still concentrated in the hands of a largely white minority, and remains a sensitive issue.

South African wealth is in the hands of whites. This is a self-evident fact, two minutes after you land at the airport Especially in the Western Cape.

[MOON Ki]

So say an economic refugee whose spent all his life abroad...not because kenya was at any war..

You need to return to the barracks and cool down, boy.   After that, consider the facts objectively.

[MOON Ki]

It rather obvious that South Africa really need to do something esp regarding land ownership. That will take away the anger that is boiling over in township.
....
RSA have to create opportunities for their downtrodden....immigrants are a sideshow...once they kick out immigrants...those guys will steal remain poor.
...
RSA black poor are uneducated (a legacy of apartheid)...and can only really function as farm hand and farm help. They need to own their land.

Here is ZUma still outlining proposals on land reforms in 2015!!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-31471427

Whilst...Two decades after the end of apartheid, land is still concentrated in the hands of a largely white minority, and remains a sensitive issue.

This is much better---the idea that South Africans can themselves do for their poor and desperate.

[RV Pundit]

And who the hell is a boy. Look like you can no longer engage in a civil discourse with half-baked ideas blaming AU everywhere. I think you'll find the nipate.com aka toilet just the perfect place for your type. You either discuss the issues at end or get the hell out of here. Nobody here want to go the previous path of Nipate.com which right now is truly a sad place...and you really missed the memo.

You need to return to the barracks and cool down, boy.   After that, consider the facts objectively.

[MOON Ki]

And who the hell is a boy. Look like you can no longer engage in a civil discourse with half-baked ideas blaming AU everywhere. I think you'll find the nipate.com aka toilet just the perfect place for your type. You either discuss the issues at end or get the hell out of here.

 

[RV Pundit]

Well It really upto you. I have seen your previous failed attempt to really rile up Veritas for absolute no good reason and I think you're getting frustrated given your half-baked ideas here are finding no traction.

Take my suggestion seriously. Relocate to Nipate.com and make a huge dump there.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Don't interrupt the blame Africa and Africans for everything Moonki.

It rather obvious that South Africa really need to do something esp regarding land ownership. That will take away the anger that is boiling over in township.

Those south African unable to compete with even the lowest of immigrants..ought be out there..farming and foraging the land. But they can't because Mandela and RSA leaders..unlike Mugabe are not yet ready to deal with land questions.

It is like kenya getting independence and the white highlands are still largely intact.

RSA have to create opportunities for their downtrodden....immigrants are a sideshow...once they kick out immigrants...those guys will steal remain poor.

RSA black poor are uneducated (a legacy of apartheid)...and can only really function as farm hand and farm help. They need to own their land.

Here is ZUma still outlining proposals on land reforms in 2015!!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-31471427

Whilst...Two decades after the end of apartheid, land is still concentrated in the hands of a largely white minority, and remains a sensitive issue.

South African wealth is in the hands of whites. This is a self-evident fact, two minutes after you land at the airport Especially in the Western Cape.

I think the land has to remain in boer hands.  Boers, for all their shortcomings, are good farmers.  That is partly the reason the Azanian is dealing with obesity.

The situation one wants to avoid is when the Soweto tsotsi now-turned farmer discovers that he is not only still poor, but food is now scarce and expensive.  What these guys need are new industries.

[RV Pundit]

You think the boer is genetically a good farmer? or what. Like in Zim, initially the new farmers will have problems, but eventually they'll figure it out. Most of kenya agriculture that works including tea, coffee,horticulture, name it...are smallholders.

Industries would be all good...but they don't have them.

They have land though. They've got about 89 Million acres of arable land...with about 80M(90%) owned by boers who are abt 5% of the population. All it takes is a radical decision by ANC to disposses the boers and give them monetary compensation.

Before industries come on board..something the boers are more prepared to transition into....leave the poor uneducated africa cultivating his own food.
 

I think the land has to remain in boer hands.  Boers, for all their shortcomings, are good farmers.  That is partly the reason the Azanian is dealing with obesity.

The situation one wants to avoid is when the Soweto tsotsi now-turned farmer discovers that he is not only still poor, but food is now scarce and expensive.  What these guys need are new industries.

[MOON Ki]

Well It really upto you. I have seen your previous failed attempt to really rile up Veritas for absolute no good reason

He, he, he, .... that is very funny.  Veritas will tell you that we are actually good friends and that we amuse each other in our own ways.

Relocate to Nipate.com and make a huge dump there.

Now, that's simply not nice! 

[RV Pundit]

Just try to refer to me as RV Pundit. I am not boy. I don't work in a barracks. And I'm not that important. Skip the pleasantries and deal with topic at hand. Always. You might want to check out the toilet.com once in a while to see just how sad a place can be if we all decide to go that level.

Well It really upto you. I have seen your previous failed attempt to really rile up Veritas for absolute no good reason

He, he, he, .... that is very funny.   Veritas will tell you that we are actually good friends and that we amuse each other in our own ways.

Relocate to Nipate.com and make a huge dump there.

Now, that's simply not nice!

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

You think the boer is genetically a good farmer? or what. Like in Zim, initially the new farmers will have problems, but eventually they'll figure it out. Most of kenya agriculture that works including tea, coffee,horticulture, name it...are smallholders.

Industries would be all good...but they don't have them.

They have land though. They've got about 89 Million acres of arable land...with about 80M(90%) owned by boers who are abt 5% of the population. All it takes is a radical decision by ANC to disposses the boers and give them monetary compensation.

Before industries come on board..something the boers are more prepared to transition into....leave the poor uneducated africa cultivating his own food.
 

I think the land has to remain in boer hands.  Boers, for all their shortcomings, are good farmers.  That is partly the reason the Azanian is dealing with obesity.

The situation one wants to avoid is when the Soweto tsotsi now-turned farmer discovers that he is not only still poor, but food is now scarce and expensive.  What these guys need are new industries.

It's not genes at all.  Just history.  I just feel Zimbabwe is a lesson right next door.  The only difference being that the South African is more urbanized therefore less equipped to farm and will have nowhere to run when shit hits the fan.

I believe they don't have new industries because the ANC have failed to market themselves to foreign investors instead focusing on unsustainable social programs.  That's my gut feeling.

Focusing on the Boer is the usual blame-the-other habit that has them in the current situation to begin with.  I agree apartheid messed them up pretty good.  The ideal situation would be to compensate them. 

But in some situations, the only way is to move forward.  For the sake of posterity.  There have been worse crimes in history.