Author Topic: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient  (Read 7041 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« on: February 27, 2015, 09:01:11 AM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-25/the-20-fastest-growing-economies-this-year

Unlike most of sub-saharan africa countries that depend mostly on commodities or AID; kenya well diversified liberalized economy is set to grow at 6%..and possibly 7-8% as SGR kicks in.

If only we could sort out manufacturing....


Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 03:22:26 AM »
Interesting article.   It also says that:

.

So, who will be enjoying all that "growth?   How are the humans progressing  in Kenya?   Answer: take a look at world-ranking by Human Development Index:

http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/table-1-human-development-index-and-its-components

And how about Millenium Development Goals?   These are those little, but, to some,  important, things of which one can't directly say "Aha!   That's something-percent added to the GDP!". 

http://www.cgdev.org/page/mdg-progress-index-gauging-country-level-achievements
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Offline Mr Mansfield.

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 03:28:08 PM »
If only we could sort out manufacturing....

Sort out what in particular?

Without Prejudice.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 04:19:36 PM »
He means there is no manufacturing.
Also i notice that there is a lot of govt borrowing to pay MCAs. Do MCAs should be a part time job.

If only we could sort out manufacturing....

Sort out what in particular?

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Offline Mr Mansfield.

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 04:36:29 PM »
He means there is no manufacturing.

Substantiate,

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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2015, 08:01:56 AM »
Find out why our manufacturing has been stuck at 9-10% the GDP since forever. British left us with a decent manufacturing base and we haven't grown it at all. It still mostly dominated by Asians and our majority blacks just can't seem to hack it.Manufacturing is a great employer and that can quickly alleviate poverty (which as you saw stand at 40% plus).

What we need to sort....reduce the overall "dimensions" cost and time of doing business..cost (raw materials, energy, labour) and time (SGR will sort that out)...and then you should be able to attract big chinese or american manufacturing.

Sadly nobody in GOV is even thinking about that...we are doing Konza (for ICT) and Galana..but nothing on Manufacturing(dongo Kundu in mombasa maybe?)...meanwhile Ethiopia is busy establishing a shoe city that will in few yrs dominate the global market.

Bottomline..the two really sick sectors in our economy is Agri & minning (extractive) and manufacturing..we are doing extremely well in financial and intermediation, ICT, Tourism and name them.


Sort out what in particular?

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Offline Mr Mansfield.

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2015, 11:27:06 AM »
We should focus on local not the global market you are suggesting,

Secondly,We are not doing well with ICT,We are consumers not producers of technology and it takes so much of our disposable income,

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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2015, 02:32:54 PM »
Whatever market...we need to ensure our manufacturing sector is growing...

If check the data...out of 10 or so sector...agri which account for 23-25%...is an employer of 70% of our folks...the ideal situation for our size of economy i dare say..would be for about half the guys digging around..doing low level manufacturing jobs.

Some sectors can bring in the big bucks..but they aren't great employer...and we all know employment is one of surest way out of poverty.

ICT is and has been doing well...and we can do better if we can get low level manufacturing and assembling of computers and smart phone..ethiopa (again) now assemble tecno phones.

We should focus on local not the global market you are suggesting,

Secondly,We are not doing well with ICT,We are consumers not producers of technology and it takes so much of our disposable income,

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Offline Mr Mansfield.

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 03:37:00 PM »
On agriculture...farmers should focus on commerce farming not subsistence farming of food for eating,Commercial dairy farming has turned brookside farmers into middle class therefore its not just manufacturing alone which will turn people into middle class,

Manufacturing means converting Raw material into finished goods like converting a mango into juice or wheat into bread its growing since we are consuming goods,but what will lead to double digit growth is urbanization whereby kenyans consume processed products and change lifestyle,demand for housing rises,vehicles and electronic ownership rises etc etc,that means massive growth and focus should be on locally manufacturing these products which inturn will catapult growth in service industries like tourism,ICT,transport,insurance,financial etc etc,

the economy is integrated,urbanization drives manufacturing which inturn drives agriculture and mining industries which inturn drives service industries,

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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2015, 07:09:13 AM »
It's a chicken-egg situation.Do you urbanize before developing? I doubt.

Our agriculture outside the dairy,tea,coffee and horticulture basically sucks. We produce 5 times less maize in an acre than a farmer in the USA. Our sugar sector is a well known mess that get beaten by wakina TZ and Malawi of all countries and we relie on Comesa extension.  We cannot compete with Pakistani rice. Neither can we compete with wheat from Europe and America. And we are not self-sufficient in those key cereals...we still have to import. Hopefully project Galana will sort out our maize, rice, wheat and sugar messes.

Anyway when it come to poverty...the counties that contribute the most is definitely Turkana, Mandera, Nairobi and other urban areas...Mandera and Turkana last i checked..poverty rate was 90% (illeteracy rate same 90% and basically all stats are shocking...most war ravaged countries are better)....we need to figure out how to help those guys..using Kajiado and Narok model...ranching/tourisms/livestock.

For Nairobi...slum dwellers need jobs...our industrial area hasn't grown..it seem to be becoming smaller and smaller...and there in lies the big problem. Most slum dwellers now are engaged in real estate..mjengo...however those are volatile short term jobs.

The rest of the sectors we are doing well...

On agriculture...farmers should focus on commerce farming not subsistence farming of food for eating,Commercial dairy farming has turned brookside farmers into middle class therefore its not just manufacturing alone which will turn people into middle class,

Manufacturing means converting Raw material into finished goods like converting a mango into juice or wheat into bread its growing since we are consuming goods,but what will lead to double digit growth is urbanization whereby kenyans consume processed products and change lifestyle,demand for housing rises,vehicles and electronic ownership rises etc etc,that means massive growth and focus should be on locally manufacturing these products which inturn will catapult growth in service industries like tourism,ICT,transport,insurance,financial etc etc,

the economy is integrated,urbanization drives manufacturing which inturn drives agriculture and mining industries which inturn drives service industries,

Without Prejudice.

Offline Mr Mansfield.

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2015, 05:19:05 PM »
On low cereals/grain yield,gov should fund research and partner with Private sector to make Kenya food secure,

On turkana and mandera,i think most of those people keep livestock they should be consolidated in ranches with feedstock to ensure they don't suffer drought effects,there is too much demand for beef globally,its not a must for everyone to go to school to increase income,we need to utilize existing capacity and improve livelihoods,

on urban poverty,we need low income housing over lets say in a ten year period to create sustainable jobs in construction,transport and manufacturing of raw materials that will raise their income while solving food insecurity like I've pointed above will increase their disposable income by reducing the amount they spend on food,
that way you sort out poverty through integrated solutions,

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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 08:07:01 AM »
You sometimes write pretty shocking things..when pressed to pin down details.

Everyone need to go to school..there is no single predictor of success in life than education...therefore if i had my way i would go for complusory schooling of at least 12yrs.

Secondly providing low income housing without providing people with sustainable income sources is waste of time. Therefore gov need to encourage investment in sectors that will create mass employment....and one such sector is manufacturing, real estate and agriculture.


On low cereals/grain yield,gov should fund research and partner with Private sector to make Kenya food secure,

On turkana and mandera,i think most of those people keep livestock they should be consolidated in ranches with feedstock to ensure they don't suffer drought effects,there is too much demand for beef globally,its not a must for everyone to go to school to increase income,we need to utilize existing capacity and improve livelihoods,

on urban poverty,we need low income housing over lets say in a ten year period to create sustainable jobs in construction,transport and manufacturing of raw materials that will raise their income while solving food insecurity like I've pointed above will increase their disposable income by reducing the amount they spend on food,
that way you sort out poverty through integrated solutions,

Without Prejudice.

Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 05:06:32 PM »
Even though I agree with the overall idea, I thought I would expect a bit more from someone like Calestous Juma.  I think value addition to raw materials is a good start.  Juma is crazy to dismiss it.  The real problem is that even that rarely happens.

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Africa-must-shift--its-focus-to-industrialise/-/440808/2640624/-/lptrxp/-/index.html
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 05:37:36 PM »
Juma of "Harvard" is one funny dude with questionable ideas.
Even though I agree with the overall idea, I thought I would expect a bit more from someone like Calestous Juma.  I think value addition to raw materials is a good start.  Juma is crazy to dismiss it.  The real problem is that even that rarely happens.

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Africa-must-shift--its-focus-to-industrialise/-/440808/2640624/-/lptrxp/-/index.html

Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 06:54:27 PM »
Even though I agree with the overall idea, I thought I would expect a bit more from someone like Calestous Juma.  I think value addition to raw materials is a good start.  Juma is crazy to dismiss it.  The real problem is that even that rarely happens.

http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Africa-must-shift--its-focus-to-industrialise/-/440808/2640624/-/lptrxp/-/index.html

An incredibly lazy article.    The argument about adding value to raw materials is not that it should be done to the exclusion of all else.  The basis of the argument is that:

(a) Currently quite a few African countries export raw materials and then import, at substantially higher prices, the value-added products from those materials.     So why not do the value-adding themselves?

(b) Depending on the materials, the process of value-adding can necessitate some industrialization that would also bring about new types of jobs.   Indeed, the Industrial Revolution itself has its roots in changes in the value-adding processes in textile-production and iron-making. 

So what exactly is he proposing alternatives?    First, he says that

"The focus should be on industrial development that does not require countries to have their own raw materials."

Yes, but what about those countries that have a lot of those?   Should they ignore them, or should they value-add?   His chosen examples are careless ones:   

In the first place, one should consider separately countries that have a lot of raw materials and countries that don't: countries like Taiwan, South Korea, etc. industrialized in the manner they did because they had no other options; certainly, they did not have the sort of raw materials that many African countries have.    What is more significant, however, is that he does not consider the effects of value-adding even in such countries.  Take, for example,  South Korea's and Japan's huge steel industries, based on adding value to raw materials from elsewhere, and look at the  automotive+related industries, ship-building, and so forth.   Or take a look at what Taiwan exports as value-added products from some the oil it imports.

Second, considering his suppose example a country with plenty of raw materials: Finland has a long history of adding value to wood and still does to a very high degree; nothing has changed because of mobile phones.   In fact, seeing that he is impressed with their mobile-phone abilities, he forgets an incredible bit of history: Nokia AB started out making money as Nokia Company (Nokia Aktiebolag), a pulp-mill business!   It got into things electric when it got involved in electricity generation for its pulp mills.   It also got into the business of adding value to rubber.   Etc.   Those are the activities from which it made the money that provided the basis for the activities for which it became most famous.

Apart from that, he doesn't have much else to suggest.   Basically his ideas for African industrialization are that:

(a) There should be more STEM education.    Wow.  Original.   And then do what with the products of the education?

(b) African governments should monitor emerging technologies.    What they are supposed to do after the monitoring is left unstated.

(c) African governments should listen to more people like him.  Presumably, if they listen, they will be told (a) and (b)! 

The most important point Juma misses is this:   No matter how one looks at it, the business of industrialization has at its core the conversion of "raw materials" into "more useful" or "more desirable" products---the value adding.    Some people have the raw materials to start with, and others have to get them elsewhere; all other things being equal, the former should be considered as having a starting advantage.

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Offline MOON Ki

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2015, 08:13:25 PM »
Continued:

Juma is, for example excited about 3D printing and says that:

"The expiry of key patents on 3D printing has resulted in dramatic growth in the sector.  Young African entrepreneurs in South Africa and Togo are already using 3D printing, but the strategic role of the technology has yet to receive the public policy support it deserves."

Let us accept that 3D printing is a good thing, which it probably is.   Even then, it is not clear why "public policy support" for 3D printing should be necessary.   Even less clear is what that "public policy support" would be.   

But before one even gets to that level, there is this: Those lads in South Africa and Togo are printing from thermoplastics, paper, metal alloys, ceramic composites, etc.?   Those don't grow on trees or come out of the ground in that form.   Where is the necessary value-adding to produce those being done?    If not in those countries, why not?
 
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Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 08:16:50 AM »
Nicely summarized. Juma credentials are very doubtful. I heard he somehow made to Harvard without a first degree.

An incredibly lazy article.    The argument about adding value to raw materials is not that it should be done to the exclusion of all else.  The basis of the argument is that:

(a) Currently quite a few African countries export raw materials and then import, at substantially higher prices, the value-added products from those materials.     So why not do the value-adding themselves?

(b) Depending on the materials, the process of value-adding can necessitate some industrialization that would also bring about new types of jobs.   Indeed, the Industrial Revolution itself has its roots in changes in the value-adding processes in textile-production and iron-making. 

So what exactly is he proposing alternatives?    First, he says that

"The focus should be on industrial development that does not require countries to have their own raw materials."

Yes, but what about those countries that have a lot of those?   Should they ignore them, or should they value-add?   His chosen examples are careless ones:   

In the first place, one should consider separately countries that have a lot of raw materials and countries that don't: countries like Taiwan, South Korea, etc. industrialized in the manner they did because they had no other options; certainly, they did not have the sort of raw materials that many African countries have.    What is more significant, however, is that he does not consider the effects of value-adding even in such countries.  Take, for example,  South Korea's and Japan's huge steel industries, based on adding value to raw materials from elsewhere, and look at the  automotive+related industries, ship-building, and so forth.   Or take a look at what Taiwan exports as value-added products from some the oil it imports.

Second, considering his suppose example a country with plenty of raw materials: Finland has a long history of adding value to wood and still does to a very high degree; nothing has changed because of mobile phones.   In fact, seeing that he is impressed with their mobile-phone abilities, he forgets an incredible bit of history: Nokia AB started out making money as Nokia Company (Nokia Aktiebolag), a pulp-mill business!   It got into things electric when it got involved in electricity generation for its pulp mills.   It also got into the business of adding value to rubber.   Etc.   Those are the activities from which it made the money that provided the basis for the activities for which it became most famous.

Apart from that, he doesn't have much else to suggest.   Basically his ideas for African industrialization are that:

(a) There should be more STEM education.    Wow.  Original.   And then do what with the products of the education?

(b) African governments should monitor emerging technologies.    What they are supposed to do after the monitoring is left unstated.

(c) African governments should listen to more people like him.  Presumably, if they listen, they will be told (a) and (b)! 

The most important point Juma misses is this:   No matter how one looks at it, the business of industrialization has at its core the conversion of "raw materials" into "more useful" or "more desirable" products---the value adding.    Some people have the raw materials to start with, and others have to get them elsewhere; all other things being equal, the former should be considered as having a starting advantage.



Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Interesting economic growth: Kenya economy truly resilient
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 09:14:42 AM »
Retail sector doing very well. 30% shop in supermarkets. That is good formalisation of the dukas. This will improve supply chains and spur industrialisation. Supermarkets can make one big consistent order compared to dukas buying stuff in small unpredictable purchases..that are hard to track. Good news too for KRA..they can easily collect VAT and sales tax...from supermarket compared to shops.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Kenya-ranked-Africa-second-biggest-market-for-retail-investors/-/539550/2641664/-/gaajj5/-/index.html