Blogger Jailed

[vooke]

I have a problem with your attempts to BOX me. Let me be me, ignore me. Period.

Alai was not even the point. I loudly wondered whether CORD would keep the promise to represent Wadi seeing they promised Alai bail but they failed. Omorlo thinks Alai is Jubirlee, I think otherwise. BOTH of us are attempting to 'BOX' him but for some reason all you see is vooke. Post your opinion if you differ with BOTH of us and stop BOXING vooke.

I have a problem with your attempt to BOX people. Let people be. Let Alai be. Let Vooke be.We are all different. What works for you doesn't work for me. Itumbi and Alai are similar. They are outspoken.

Only  a really stupid gov would waste time with some of these folks.

During PEV the guys i saw going for war and for demos i can bet never voted..they couldn't tell ODM from PNU..unwashed criminal minded monkeys straight from forest..who did not even vote.

People post stuff on facebook when they are angry, when they are frustrated, when they are happy, when they are drunk, stuck in bad traffic,name it...nobody should and ought to take them seriously...esp stupid student like Wadi..

You cannot police people life..

Omorlo,
I see it the other way round; being rabidly pro-CORD/Jubirlee is a liability. You lose respect somewhat. You are not objective. So Alai is trying to overcompensate by making feeble attacks at CORD to give some semblance or 'balance'. Assaulting and exposing injustices wherever and whenever

He could easily have been a serious activist. He lost it. For all purposes and intent, the Negro is a Rayirla PSYCHOphant specializing on attacking Rayirla's nemesis; Ouruto.

He looks like a lone wolf whom CORD took an interest in just like Wadi, hasted to over-promise only to change their minds.

[vooke]

Termie,
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty

How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?

Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years

I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.

You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory

Unless I am mistaken, evidence is presented in court and you and I did not see it. What was posted here would serve as eyewitness statements by those who took the screenshots if they indeed were to testify. Indeed did the same account also post photos of the suspect, were those same photos found on the suspects mobile phone ? I'm sure that you are also aware that Facebook does not block accounts without an internal investigation. Many times, a Facebook account is linked to an email account and in the case of two factor authentication, a mobile phone number. Either way, this will be an interesting case to watch as it unfolds and is appealed. The State may decide not to contest on appeal, or perhaps it will. The worst thing an innocent person can do for themselves is plead guilty when they know that they are not (except for minor offences to save the pain of going through a lengthy trial).

I never really doubted the burden would be with the prosecution.  The guilty plea.  Under the circumstances.  I have no reason to rule out duress.   

In any case, I'd be hard pressed to put it better than MOON Ki.  He has covered the legal angle well.

Admission of digital evidence does not mean accepting anything presented in digital format as true.

Already we are agreed it is laughably easy to create bogus Facebook accounts, phony content and use it as evidence.  It does not pass muster on nipate, let alone a serious court.

twitter does a better job with duplicating account names.  But it is far from immune from simple download of page and css, phony content, photoshop.

Digital evidence is fine.  But it demands higher thresholds of authenticity than the joke I have seen presented with regards to Alan Wadi.

The jailing.  The court affair.  I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis.  If you come up with something more inspired.  I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly. 

I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here.  I am assuming you believe they are true.  What is your basis?  How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?

Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi?  Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share?  Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?

Alan Wadi's photos are on the web.  Anybody can download them.  Create a phony account. Phony content.  Will facebook stop them?  I could even use it for my avatar.  Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.

If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already.  A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.

Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop. 

If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?

[Omollo]

It doesn't take long to detect and establish a forgery - even if they took his mobile and set up the accounts! Having proper legal representation would expose all that. We shall have the opportunity to examine the posts. Thank God Facebook is NOT owned by Safaricom.

[obienga]

No problem, since the case was contested and decided against the prosecution on Nipate, it is moot to continue to endlessly beat the issue to death.

The jailing.  The court affair.  I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis.  If you come up with something more inspired.  I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly. 

I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here.  I am assuming you believe they are true.  What is your basis?  How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?

Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi?  Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share?  Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?

Alan Wadi's photos are on the web.  Anybody can download them.  Create a phony account. Phony content.  Will facebook stop them?  I could even use it for my avatar.  Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.

If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already.  A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.

Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop. 

If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?

[Omollo]

I have merely reached the "Insinuation Stage". I have yet to make a declaration that Alai is Jubilee.

I am not sure about him being promised bail. It is tricky for a political party to begin bailing out suspects in any trial - even show trials. It poses a serious challenge. What happens if that party ga9ins power before the case is concluded? The DPP gets the signals even if he is not instructed. The public perception of justice becomes damaged. That is just one example drawn from events elsewhere.

Alai may have been promised assistance probably by a CORD friendly donor. He could help the party more by remaining inside and refusing to be bailed. Clearly he did not have sacrifice in mind. He can't ever see the inside of bunge as the short cut to bunge is a prison cell under "political circumstances"

I have a problem with your attempts to BOX me. Let me be me, ignore me. Period.

Alai was not even the point. I loudly wondered whether CORD would keep the promise to represent Wadi seeing they promised Alai bail but they failed. Omorlo thinks Alai is Jubirlee, I think otherwise. BOTH of us are attempting to 'BOX' him but for some reason all you see is vooke. Post your opinion if you differ with BOTH of us and stop BOXING vooke.

[Omollo]

Are you bolting? Again?

No problem, since the case was contested and decided against the prosecution on Nipate, it is moot to continue to endlessly beat the issue to death.

The jailing.  The court affair.  I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis.  If you come up with something more inspired.  I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly. 

I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here.  I am assuming you believe they are true.  What is your basis?  How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?

Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi?  Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share?  Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?

Alan Wadi's photos are on the web.  Anybody can download them.  Create a phony account. Phony content.  Will facebook stop them?  I could even use it for my avatar.  Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.

If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already.  A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.

Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop. 

If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?

[obienga]

Much to your annoyance, I have other things to do unlike your endless trolling both here and at .com

Are you bolting? Again?

[Omollo]

Good bye! Those questions Termie asked are TOUGH. One needs a brain to even respond to any. You knew you had been had and suddenly you got "other business" to attend to? Is that business calling me names - something you know you can't do here?

Much to your annoyance, I have other things to do unlike your endless trolling both here and at .com

Are you bolting? Again?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie,
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty

How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?

Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years

I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.

You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory

Yours is a false dichotomy.  It represents nothing anybody is saying.  Obienga has already admitted they may be fake.  I think. 

The really important question is whether it is beyond insane to think that Wadi might have been coerced by this government to confess?  Is it even sensible to think otherwise?  It could be argued that one would be out of his mind to think otherwise.

I am not pushing obienga to do anything.  I am just airing my views.  Clarifying.  Taking care of any obfuscation designed to misrepresent them.  Asking questions.  obienga remains free to believe the muthamaki does not crap.

Regardless of what I believe, I would be biased to claim those links prove Alan Wadi said those things.  Even if he did.  Conversely, they certainly don't prove he didn't either. 

In my opinion, the sensible position is not to assume anything either way about them.  Most people will view them from the tribal angle(same as political angle in Kenya). Some will dismiss them automatically.  Others will embrace them.  Others will toss a coin.  Others will view them through the lens of the benighted decades of history of dictatorship in Kenya and suspend judgement.

I initially believed them.  Before I paid more attention to something that should be readily obvious to someone like me.  Given that it is laughably easy for anyone to create them.  I'd rather suspend judgement on them; as if they don't even exist; unless something more compelling comes up.  Anyone who cares about the truth would do the same.

[obienga]

Its only in murder cases that State is required to provide an advocate He opted to plead guilty @ODPP_KE

Duncan Ondimu @matundura78  Jan 2
@Donsarigo legal representation is a choice refer to Article 50(2)(g) @TonyLitunya @ODPP_KE

Duncan Ondimu ?@matundura78  Jan 2
@Donsarigo Article 50(2)(h) @TonyLitunya @ODPP_KE

Alan Wadi Okengo has today been charged with hate speech & undermining authority of a public officer. He pleaded guilty @odpp_ke

— Duncan Ondimu, OGW (@matundura78) January 2, 2015

Good bye! Those questions Termie asked are TOUGH. One needs a brain to even respond to any. You knew you had been had and suddenly you got "other business" to attend to? Is that business calling me names - something you know you can't do here?

Much to your annoyance, I have other things to do unlike your endless trolling both here and at .com

Are you bolting? Again?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

facts? It adds no value for anyone to keep going round in endless, never ending circles of debate. Perhaps it does for some as an entertaining way to pass time. Zacarias Moussaoui, educated with a masters degree, but arguably mentally ill, had the best defence afforded to him by the US government at his disposal which he declined, he choose to plead guilty while informed of the consequences just as Wadi was advised. Moussaoui remains in prison to this day as does Wadi. When the appeal commences then we can debate factual occurrences regarding the validity or invalidity of evidence subject to it being not sub-judice

Termie, do not try to be mischievous inventing things I never admitted to. They are not fake in my view. You are entitled to your opinion, just don't try to invent opinions for others.

What is your basis?  Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect?  Are they facts merely because you say they are?

[vooke]

You can in VERY few words conjecture coercion. I did many posts before yours. But as it is, Wadi pled guilty and he is in jail.

There is NOTHING circumstantial in those leaked screenshots suggesting coercion/faked. You are clinging to straws.

Claiming that the State faked FB posts,coerced Wadi to own them and then presented the same as evidence to the courts and secured a successful conviction is lunacy on stilts.

Cops plant guns on DEAD suspects with very good reasons.

Let me predict how it will end. CORD lawyers will plead insanity and won't get the negro to reverse his plea

Termie,
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty

How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?

Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years

I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.

You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory

Yours is a false dichotomy.  It represents nothing anybody is saying.  Obienga has already admitted they may be fake.  I think. 

The really important question is whether it is beyond insane to think that Wadi might have been coerced by this government to confess?  Is it even sensible to think otherwise?  It could be argued that one would be out of his mind to think otherwise.

I am not pushing obienga to do anything.  I am just airing my views.  Clarifying.  Taking care of any obfuscation designed to misrepresent them.  Asking questions.  obienga remains free to believe the muthamaki does not crap.

Regardless of what I believe, I would be biased to claim those links prove Alan Wadi said those things.  Even if he did.  Conversely, they certainly don't prove he didn't either. 

In my opinion, the sensible position is not to assume anything either way about them.  Most people will view them from the tribal angle(same as political angle in Kenya). Some will dismiss them automatically.  Others will embrace them.  Others will toss a coin.  Others will view them through the lens of the benighted decades of history of dictatorship in Kenya and suspend judgement.

I initially believed them.  Before I paid more attention to something that should be readily obvious to someone like me.  Given that it is laughably easy for anyone to create them.  I'd rather suspend judgement on them; as if they don't even exist; unless something more compelling comes up.  Anyone who cares about the truth would do the same.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

You can in VERY few words conjecture coercion. I did many posts before yours. But as it is, Wadi pled guilty and he is in jail.

There is NOTHING circumstantial in those leaked screenshots suggesting coercion/faked. You are clinging to straws.

Claiming that the State faked FB posts,coerced Wadi to own them and then presented the same as evidence to the courts and secured a successful conviction is lunacy on stilts.

Cops plant guns on DEAD suspects with very good reasons.

Let me predict how it will end. CORD lawyers will plead insanity and won't get the negro to reverse his plea

Termie,
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty

How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?

Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years

I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.

You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory

Yours is a false dichotomy.  It represents nothing anybody is saying.  Obienga has already admitted they may be fake.  I think. 

The really important question is whether it is beyond insane to think that Wadi might have been coerced by this government to confess?  Is it even sensible to think otherwise?  It could be argued that one would be out of his mind to think otherwise.

I am not pushing obienga to do anything.  I am just airing my views.  Clarifying.  Taking care of any obfuscation designed to misrepresent them.  Asking questions.  obienga remains free to believe the muthamaki does not crap.

Regardless of what I believe, I would be biased to claim those links prove Alan Wadi said those things.  Even if he did.  Conversely, they certainly don't prove he didn't either. 

In my opinion, the sensible position is not to assume anything either way about them.  Most people will view them from the tribal angle(same as political angle in Kenya). Some will dismiss them automatically.  Others will embrace them.  Others will toss a coin.  Others will view them through the lens of the benighted decades of history of dictatorship in Kenya and suspend judgement.

I initially believed them.  Before I paid more attention to something that should be readily obvious to someone like me.  Given that it is laughably easy for anyone to create them.  I'd rather suspend judgement on them; as if they don't even exist; unless something more compelling comes up.  Anyone who cares about the truth would do the same.

vooke,

Can you sumarize what you are responding to?  You clearly can't have read what you have quoted.

I'll address the rest of your points, if any and worthwhile, when I wake up.

[vooke]

Right back at you
What are you saying in one sentence?

vooke,

Can you sumarize what you are responding to?  You clearly can't have read what you have quoted.

I'll address the rest of your points, if any and worthwhile, when I wake up.

[obienga]

I am sure that "my" does not mean "your". I have my reasons including as noted earlier, circumstantial occurrences not to mention the personal admission by the suspect despite him being warned by the court of the consequences of making such admission. Facebook does not arbitrarily shutdown accounts for lack of good reason, not when it is domiciled in a nation where freedom of speech is zealously protected under the constitution as long as it does not violate the law.

What is your basis?  Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect?  Are they facts merely because you say they are?

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I am sure that "my" does not mean "your". I have my reasons including as noted earlier, circumstantial occurrences not to mention the personal admission by the suspect despite him being warned by the court of the consequences of making such admission. Facebook does not arbitrarily shutdown accounts for lack of good reason, not when it is domiciled in a nation where freedom of speech is zealously protected under the constitution as long as it does not violate the law.

What is your basis?  Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect?  Are they facts merely because you say they are?

There are any number reasons facebook can shut down an account including not liking the look of you.  The most common one that I have seen is when someone reports impersonation.  Exceedingly rarely for hate speech https://www.facebook.com/obamaisgheyashell?fref=nf. 

They have a page that spells out the things that are not desirable.  Even then, removal of the offending content is the preferred route over shutting down the account.  Impersonation seems to be the big doozy.

In any case is having a facebook account a protected right?  I was of the notion that it was just like nipate.  That you and I can be thrown without any explanation and have no legal recourse.  Am I right?

What one is left with is a claim that something was uttered in an account that is no longer existent.  How is this any different from saying that the dog ate your homework? 

The accounts that are there(at least 2 including an alleged impersonation) do not have this information.  There is a problem of who is the real Wadi in all these accounts.  Let alone what he wrote.

You want to prove that Alan Wadi wrote those statements; the least you want to have is verified information from facebook logs.  Even if the logs themselves do not necessarily prove who wrote what, I think that in this case, that is a place where reasonable doubt about what was written can be put to sleep.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Right back at you
What are you saying in one sentence?

vooke,

Can you sumarize what you are responding to?  You clearly can't have read what you have quoted.

I'll address the rest of your points, if any and worthwhile, when I wake up.

I am asking you to summarize what you think you are responding to.

[Omollo]

It is turning out - just by this simple analysis by Termie - that Wadi was convicted on trumped up charges. There was technically no evidence and the magistrate was either daft or part of the perversion of justice.

[GeeMail]

On what basis did the police decide Paul Kobia was behaving violently and was therefore mad while a blogger thought to be writing in a certain way was not mad?

[RV Pundit]

Some things that our gov does are indefensible. I pity the Obiengas and likes who feel they have to defend the gov no matter what. Unless of you're paid to defend everything the gov does.

On what basis did the police decide Paul Kobia was behaving violently and was therefore mad while a blogger thought to be writing in a certain way was not mad?