Why it would be a Disaster if Ngugi Wins Nobel Prize

[mmekamata]

This man is again rumoured to be in serious contention for the Nobel prize. I believe it would be a disaster that would set African and Kenya 50 years back and ruin every effort made to counter his pervasive influence.

Here is why:

1. Ngugi is a champion of Female Genital Mutilation. He is not just an advocate of it but is said to have personally advocated for the same in his native Kikuyu tribe. The only person who was not circumcised in Ngugi's household was his second wife. This came to a violent end when she was forcefully circumcised by unidentified men in a very suspicious attack on the residence where Ngugi and the innocent woman were staying. Giving Ngugi the prize would only prove him right and lead to more FGM in Kenya starting with his native tribe who would see it as a "cultural revival;

2. Ngugi is considered an "authority" on FMG in the entire Africa. His works are read and celebrated at FGM fetes by FGM activists in West Africa. The characters he created Muthoni and Nyambura are celebrated and one of them has become a common name in the region. Granting Ngugi  the prize would serve as the final stamp of approval of FGM by the Nobel Committee. One can think of fewer harmful things to humanity;

3. Ngugi has remained quiet and seemingly unaffected as his fellow tribesmen institute a tribal Paramount Chieftaincy in Kenya  that tyrannizes over other tribes. He has taken a very long leave from the militancy and activism that he used so effectively against the Moi Dictatorship. His previously lethal pen has miraculously run out of ink and his previously loud voice has gone silent. All this dates to the moment a fellow tribesman took power. Ngugi is blind to the increased cases of Extra Judicial Killings  even when never in the history of Kenya has the government openly murdered so many of its own innocent citizens; Ngugi has kept quiet on multiple occasions as the same Kenyan police he used to complain about shoot demonstrators and lock Uhuru park.

There are more reasons but I have chosen these few to start with.  I believe Ngugi should never be awarded any prize least of all the Nobel Prize.

When will you grow above your shallow tribal thinking. Ngugi is recognized because of his writing not all those other nonsensical things you are trying to portray.

[Omollo]

Vooke

I can help clarify any point you wish:

Father and mother are circumcised. Are they not Christians? Circumcision did not prevent them from being Christians. I too have embraced the white man's faith. However, I know it is beautiful, oh so beautiful to be initiated into womanhood...Surely there is no tribe that does not circumcise. Or how does a girl grow into a woman?"

(River Between p24)

[/i]

Nyambura:

Muthoni: (pp25-6)

[Omollo]

When will you grow above your shallow tribal thinking. Ngugi is recognized because of his writing not all those other nonsensical things you are trying to portray.

Are you not the one being tribal by jumping to the defense of a fellow tribesman on some misguided collective tribal defense? I have not attacked Ngugi for his belonging to his tribe. I have stated my case against him. If you have issues with those facts, please feel free to debate. If you have taken out your tribal spear, I suggest you sheath it back.

[vooke]

Omorlo
Literary criticism is not deciphering Jakoyo idiocy
Muthoni dies
Try and go through Charles Cantalupo's Ngugi Wa Thiong'o: Text and Contexts
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9780865434455
Look at his opinion on the subject as treated by Ngugi in his works

[Omollo]

I will take lessons on literary criticism from you some other time. Right now I am not engaged in the criticism of any of Ngugi's works so I see no relevance of this link.

Plus I am not in the habit of buying books online to get responses from those who debate me. You buy the book from Amazon, read it and then make references that are relevant to this debate.

Omorlo
Literary criticism is not deciphering Jakoyo idiocy
Muthoni dies
Try and go through Charles Cantalupo's Ngugi Wa Thiong'o: Text and Contexts
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9780865434455
Look at his opinion on the subject as treated by Ngugi in his works

[Van Gaal]

I suspect the author himself is uncut, thus the fear and anger at the thought of Ngugi winning the award.

[Omollo]

I suspect the author himself is uncut, thus the fear and anger at the thought of Ngugi winning the award.

After your ad hominem can you address the issues I raised?

[mya88]

if there is an Okoyu intellectual that has Jarluo pseudo-intellectuals by their gonads it is Ngugi.
For most of these Ojingaist buffoons, attacking Okoyu is the surest way to eternity.

Omorlo is a perfect example. His/her basis of denying Ngugi a Nobel are frivolous. Ngugi FGMd his wife and evidence is out there in Kibera pubs.

Ngugi is a pro-FGM proper. How much would he have survived and risen in the West if this was his stance? You can bet minions of NGO busybodies would be al over him. So far, only this dumb and bigoted literature critic who was given free lessons by Tarimbo is seeing it....Bure kabisa

You have a way of seeing things that is irritatingly naive. Who took me to what cleaners? I read you talking about Omollo being your punching bag. When have you so to speak punched me? You have all these silly ideas about debates.

Ngugi's told the world what happened. The rest came out in court.

http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/index.php?topic=2167.0;wap2

Idiocy galore. You had to rope in Raila supporters just to make your point , and you think for some reason you are better than Omollo. Has it ever occured to you that Omollo is an independent thinker? Aaarrrrghh

[mya88]

But for a short break during the Moi Dictatorship, Kenya has been ruled by ethnic Kikuyu Presidents. Kenyatta ruled for 15 and Kibaki for 11 and now we have Uhuru doing his second year. All in all Kikuyu Presidents have ruled Kenya for now 27 years going to 28. During their tenure here is what has characterized their presidency

1. A majority if not all leading public positions have gone to ethnic Kikuyu or their linguistic and cultural kin (Embu Meru, Tharaka etc). During Kenyatta's regime Five out of six Provincial Governors were from his ethnic group; More than two thirds of DCs were Kikuyu with the remaining divided between Embu, Meru and other tribes. The same applied to Permanent secretaries. His cabinet had nearly 8 ethnic Kikuyus plus another 5 related tribes before OTHER tribes were considered. Kibaki would repeat more of the same as has Uhuru. That should explain the use of "tyranny". I am available to expound further in event this is unsatisfactory

2. Ngugi has glorified FGM in his book The River Between. He describes it as "beautiful".



2.

Omollo

These reasons you are giving arent sufficient to deny Ngugi a nobel prize in his literary works, infact point (1) and (2) have nothing to do with each other. Obama won the prize, I didnt think he deserved it given his very short stint in politics at the time when he got it. In some quatters he was already being refered to as the butcher and those people also do not think he is deserving of the prize especially in the category that he got it on. I think they should have waited to give it to him way down the line after his presidency. Ngugi's work in literary writings should speak for itself, his personal views on FMG have nothing to do with it. We can criticize that separately without taking away from his works.

p/s do we have a spell check option here...Will save me the editing.

[Omollo]

Idiocy galore. You had to rope in Raila supporters just to make your point , and you think for some reason you are better than Omollo. Has it ever occured to you that Omollo is an independent thinker? Aaarrrrghh

The problem with Online Robots set up for the defense of the Kikuyu Intelligentsia is there inability to think outside their programming. Any factual criticism of of one of them is automatically seen as a manifestation of Raila's evil plans. Raila sits at the head of a giant ant-Kikuyu edifice directing the thoughts of every Kenyan opposed to Kikuyu hegemony; He is the all seeing and al knowing Luo maleficent being.

I have provided the reasons why I think it would be a disaster to award Ngugi the Nobel Prize. I am sure the Nobel Committee is well aware of these reasons having possibly received the same and more from many NGOs fighting FGM. I don't see how that becomes a Luo-Attacking a Kikuyu thing.

[Omollo]

Omollo

These reasons you are giving arent sufficient to deny Ngugi a nobel prize in his literary works, infact point (1) and (2) have nothing to do with each other. Obama won the prize, I didnt think he deserved given his very short stint at politics when he got it. In some quatters he is refered to as the butcher and those people also do not think he is deserving of the prize especially in the category that he got it on. Ngugi's work in literary writings should speak for itself, his personal views on FMG have nothing to do with it. We can criticize that separately without taking away from his works.

p/s do we have a spell check option here...Will save me the editing.

I have largely concentrated on his works as you can read from the evidence.

[TheDayTheDollarDies]

This man is again rumoured to be in serious contention for the Nobel prize. I believe it would be a disaster that would set African and Kenya 50 years back and ruin every effort made to counter his pervasive influence.

Here is why:

1. Ngugi is a champion of Female Genital Mutilation. He is not just an advocate of it but is said to have personally advocated for the same in his native Kikuyu tribe. The only person who was not circumcised in Ngugi's household was his second wife. This came to a violent end when she was forcefully circumcised by unidentified men in a very suspicious attack on the residence where Ngugi and the innocent woman were staying. Giving Ngugi the prize would only prove him right and lead to more FGM in Kenya starting with his native tribe who would see it as a "cultural revival;

2. Ngugi is considered an "authority" on FMG in the entire Africa. His works are read and celebrated at FGM fetes by FGM activists in West Africa. The characters he created Muthoni and Nyambura are celebrated and one of them has become a common name in the region. Granting Ngugi  the prize would serve as the final stamp of approval of FGM by the Nobel Committee. One can think of fewer harmful things to humanity;

3. Ngugi has remained quiet and seemingly unaffected as his fellow tribesmen institute a tribal Paramount Chieftaincy in Kenya  that tyrannizes over other tribes. He has taken a very long leave from the militancy and activism that he used so effectively against the Moi Dictatorship. His previously lethal pen has miraculously run out of ink and his previously loud voice has gone silent. All this dates to the moment a fellow tribesman took power. Ngugi is blind to the increased cases of Extra Judicial Killings  even when never in the history of Kenya has the government openly murdered so many of its own innocent citizens; Ngugi has kept quiet on multiple occasions as the same Kenyan police he used to complain about shoot demonstrators and lock Uhuru park.

There are more reasons but I have chosen these few to start with.  I believe Ngugi should never be awarded any prize least of all the Nobel Prize.

I think you're talking nonsense and hypocrisy. So you want Ngungi to be denied an award because of his fictional characters, but you are the same person, coming from a culture where women aren't circumcised who wasn't shy to state how much you lusted after the vagina of a circumcised woman and after you had had sex with her repeatedly you went ahead to "restore the virginity" of this woman just before she wedded? But you have a problem with Ngugi's works that were written before you were born? In a culture where women were circumcised? 

Shame on you.

[mya88]

Omollo

So far you have only given two reasons:

1. Support for FGM
2. Being silent on EJK and support of tribal chieftain.

On the first, Ngugi comes from a tribe that practiced FGM, his stories are centered on that because that is how hhe was brought up. Same thing can be said of many other ridiculous customs being practiced all over Africa. He was also a fictional writer so his stories arent necessarily a representation of reality.

On the second point, he is entitled to support whomever he chooses as president. How many other renowned writers, poets, have been known to go against the volatile political landscapes of their times. Ngugi has paid greatly for some of his actions, I think trying to simp[lify his works to only these two issues would be too simplistic. I can't claim to have read all his work, but I have read some and he writes well.

[Kichwambaya]

Something happened to Ngugi after he fled Kenya and I cannot put my fingers on it.  He became more okuyunized and lost interest in anything else that is not okuyu.  Whenever he appeared in public it became almost imposible to talk to him about issues that were not exclusively okuyu and he seemed to only pay attention and interest to kikuyus.  I gave up on him. I loved his books but like Termie put it, Noble peace prize are highly political and he needs to clarify his position on FGM.  FGM is like slavery in this day and age. its not a matter of opinion. There is no good slavery anymore and so is FGM. All slavery and FGM  are bad. There are people who came from cultures where they used to throw one twin away.  That is not acceptable anymore and so is FGM.

[Omollo]

Mya88

Unless you are trivializing FGM you would not be holding this position. The physical and psychological damage done by FGM is beyond words and perhaps you should delve it deeper to understand why it is not just three letters. Ngugi wa Thiong'o is like the god of FGM practitioners in West Africa. He is a cult figure there. Giving him the prize will have a devastating effect on the work of NGOs and the UN on FGM over the years.

That is my subjective opinion.

[gout]

being 'tribal' only becomes an issue when you want to force your tribal beliefs on others like mungiki, al shaitan, jews or ISIS ....

being prejudiced one way or the other is normal unless you developing in a vacuum ... nobody should have it against luo intellectuals who were supporting wife inheritance in 80s before ukimwi... we can't write off palestinian intellectuals just because they are against jewish occupation

[Omollo]

being 'tribal' only becomes an issue when you want to force your tribal beliefs on others like mungiki, al shaitan, jews or ISIS ....

being prejudiced one way or the other is normal unless you developing in a vacuum ... nobody should have it against luo intellectuals who were supporting wife inheritance in 80s before ukimwi... we can't write off palestinian intellectuals just because they are against jewish occupation

And if a person has immense influence on others? A kind of international demagogue???

[vooke]

THe point is there is absolutely no shred of evidence that Thiongi supports FGM either casually or otherwise.
Literary critics think he does not. You are not a critic and you think he does. But I don't expect much from a negro who believes in Kifacki's underground pyramid crematoriums hastily constructed in early 2008 to hide evidence of the 10,000 jarluo genocide

I will take lessons on literary criticism from you some other time. Right now I am not engaged in the criticism of any of Ngugi's works so I see no relevance of this link.

Plus I am not in the habit of buying books online to get responses from those who debate me. You buy the book from Amazon, read it and then make references that are relevant to this debate.

Omorlo
Literary criticism is not deciphering Jakoyo idiocy
Muthoni dies
Try and go through Charles Cantalupo's Ngugi Wa Thiong'o: Text and Contexts
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=9780865434455
Look at his opinion on the subject as treated by Ngugi in his works

[vooke]

mya88,
You just couldn't resist the bait
I have a much proof for my assertions as Omorlo

But pray tell me why would a Negro advance such a position on the basis of bartalk with such conviction?
1. Was Njeeri circumcised? Omorlo appears to have the scapel that was used and a relic
2. Does Thiongi support FGM? I find it decidedly convenient that Omorlo sees it and nobody else does

if there is an Okoyu intellectual that has Jarluo pseudo-intellectuals by their gonads it is Ngugi.
For most of these Ojingaist buffoons, attacking Okoyu is the surest way to eternity.

Omorlo is a perfect example. His/her basis of denying Ngugi a Nobel are frivolous. Ngugi FGMd his wife and evidence is out there in Kibera pubs.

Ngugi is a pro-FGM proper. How much would he have survived and risen in the West if this was his stance? You can bet minions of NGO busybodies would be al over him. So far, only this dumb and bigoted literature critic who was given free lessons by Tarimbo is seeing it....Bure kabisa

You have a way of seeing things that is irritatingly naive. Who took me to what cleaners? I read you talking about Omollo being your punching bag. When have you so to speak punched me? You have all these silly ideas about debates.

Ngugi's told the world what happened. The rest came out in court.

http://www.africaspeaks.com/reasoning/index.php?topic=2167.0;wap2

Idiocy galore. You had to rope in Raila supporters just to make your point , and you think for some reason you are better than Omollo. Has it ever occured to you that Omollo is an independent thinker? Aaarrrrghh

[vooke]

Negro,
what do you make of the fact that Muthoni one character who flees from his parents to be cut dies from the act?
ngugi has serious mbeef with Christianity but he admits it contributed to the demise or near demise of FGM. He probably is against FORCE in stopping the practice but am yet to come across abything else other this primate who reads pro-FGM stance from his works

I wish Tarimbo was here, we need a rug

Omollo

These reasons you are giving arent sufficient to deny Ngugi a nobel prize in his literary works, infact point (1) and (2) have nothing to do with each other. Obama won the prize, I didnt think he deserved given his very short stint at politics when he got it. In some quatters he is refered to as the butcher and those people also do not think he is deserving of the prize especially in the category that he got it on. Ngugi's work in literary writings should speak for itself, his personal views on FMG have nothing to do with it. We can criticize that separately without taking away from his works.

p/s do we have a spell check option here...Will save me the editing.

I have largely concentrated on his works as you can read from the evidence.