Terminator--On HIV AIDS--and Europeans

[RV Pundit]

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Apparently nearly 1/3 are immune to the virus. That is people descent from Europe and Central Asia (including noth africa--supra sahara). They have a gene mutation that protect them. It possible virus had appeared in Europe say 5,000 yrs ago hence the mutation. The same way most affricans are immune to malaria (sickled cell shaped red blood cells).


So this could explain "male circumscion" thing.

[Omollo]

There hasn't been invested enough in a vaccine. The reason this malady will continue and may be spend itself is because big pharmaceuticals are making a killing selling their anti- retro viral poisons to sufferers. I was once involved in the ground work for the preparation of a budget for Malaria and HIV in two countries and then I realized just how much is spent. There is no way companies will forgo huge profits for a one off vaccine.

[mya88]

Apparently nearly 1/3 are immune to the virus. That is people descent from Europe and Central Asia (including noth africa--supra sahara). They have a gene mutation that protect them. It possible virus had appeared in Europe say 5,000 yrs ago hence the mutation. The same way most affricans are immune to malaria (sickled cell shaped red blood cells).


So this could explain "male circumscion" thing.

Are Africans immune to malaria? Or are they just able to recover from it better. Sickle cell is a form of anemia, I am confused. Interesting on that 1/3 bit of population. There is a man in Kenya who's wife is infected, but he is not despite having about 4 kids with her. They just cannot find any trait of the virus in his system. These people carry the key to a cure, but like Omollo says, I am not sure anyone is looking for a cure when there is soo much money to be made. While the west have the drugs at the fingertips, Africans are being wiped out.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Apparently nearly 1/3 are immune to the virus. That is people descent from Europe and Central Asia (including noth africa--supra sahara). They have a gene mutation that protect them. It possible virus had appeared in Europe say 5,000 yrs ago hence the mutation. The same way most affricans are immune to malaria (sickled cell shaped red blood cells).


So this could explain "male circumscion" thing.

Pundit,

Does that mean the Congo origin of the retrovirus is no longer in vogue? 

Did it mutate in the 80's, in time for new technologies like PCR to detect it?

How does it account for the low incidence in uncircumcised Brazil?  A place with its fair share of the Sub-Saharan Negro.

Is this a new discovery?  If you can share some link that would be interesting.

I think the one thing everyone agrees on.  The more one looks at HIV.  The more confusing it gets.  Very confusing. 

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Another one of those remarkable things about HIV that leave your head spinning.  The not so clearly stated implication is that HIV is becoming gentler and more harmless.  Like other retroviruses.

HIV is evolving to become less deadly and less infectious, according to a major scientific study.


The team at the University of Oxford shows the virus is being "watered down" as it adapts to our immune systems.


It said it was taking longer for HIV infection to cause Aids and that the changes in the virus may help efforts to contain the pandemic.


Some virologists suggest the virus may eventually become "almost harmless" as it continues to evolve.


More than 35 million people around the world are infected with HIV and inside their bodies a devastating battle takes place between the immune system and the virus.


HIV is a master of disguise. It rapidly and effortlessly mutates to evade and adapt to the immune system.


However, every so often HIV infects someone with a particularly effective immune system.


"[Then] the virus is trapped between a rock and hard place, it can get flattened or make a change to survive and if it has to change then it will come with a cost," said Prof Philip Goulder, from the University of Oxford.


Weakened
The "cost" is a reduced ability to replicate, which in turn makes the virus less infectious and means it takes longer to cause Aids.


This weakened virus is then spread to other people and a slow cycle of "watering-down" HIV begins.


The team showed this process happening in Africa by comparing Botswana, which has had an HIV problem for a long time, and South Africa where HIV arrived a decade later.


Prof Goulder told the BBC News website: "It is quite striking. You can see the ability to replicate is 10% lower in Botswana than South Africa and that's quite exciting.


"We are observing evolution happening in front of us and it is surprising how quickly the process is happening.


"The virus is slowing down in its ability to cause disease and that will help contribute to elimination."


The findings in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences also suggested anti-retroviral drugs were forcing HIV to evolve into milder forms.


It showed the drugs would primarily target the nastiest versions of HIV and encourage the milder ones to thrive.


Prof Goulder added: "Twenty years ago the time to Aids was 10 years, but in the last 10 years in Botswana that might have increased to 12.5 years, a sort of incremental change, but in the big picture that is a rapid change.


"One might imagine as time extends this could stretch further and further and in the future people being asymptomatic for decades."


The group did caution that even a watered-down version of HIV was still dangerous and could cause Aids.


HIV originally came from apes or monkeys, in which it is frequently a minor infection.


Prof Jonathan Ball, a virologist at the University of Nottingham, told the BBC: "If the trend continues then we might see the global picture change - a longer disease causing much less transmission.


"In theory, if we were to let HIV run its course then we would see a human population emerge that was more resistant to the virus than we collectively are today - HIV infection would eventually become almost harmless.


"Such events have probably happened throughout history, but we are talking very large timescales."


Prof Andrew Freedman, a reader in infectious diseases at Cardiff University, said this was an "intriguing study".


He said: "By comparing the epidemic in Botswana with that which occurred somewhat later in South Africa, the researchers were able to demonstrate that the effect of this evolution is for the virus to become less virulent, or weaker, over time.


"The widespread use of antiretroviral therapy may also have a similar effect and together, these effects may contribute to the ultimate control of the HIV epidemic."


But he cautioned HIV was "an awfully long way" from becoming harmless and "other events will supersede that including wider access to treatment and eventually the development of a cure".

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-30254697

[RV Pundit]

The general idea is this; once a disease appears; our immune systems basically learns how to deal with it; and eventually even neutralize via evolution. Name any disease..and it goes thro such phases. Deadly at first then slowly it lose it's punch as our immune system improves. We pass such info to new generation thro' mutation.

Now some europeans (maybe 1/3) have gene mutation that protect them from hiv-aids. The gene mutation is traced plus 5,000 yrs. That shows HIV or HIV like disease had appeared enough for that gene mutation to develop.

Some Africans who have lived in malaria zones are immune from Malaria...their red blood cells is differently shaped [hameglobin is sicked celled]..the side effect is sicke cell anemia..

Bottom and top line: You have to remain open minded when it come to science...as long as it supported by rigorous study...i will flow with it.

[bryan275]

Pundit, this sort of explains why there is no HIV epidemic in England for example.  The amount of sex being had by Brits is unreal.  Kicks off at 13 all the way to geriatrics... Most of it unprotected because other sti are spreading fast.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The general idea is this; once a disease appears; our immune systems basically learns how to deal with it; and eventually even neutralize via evolution. Name any disease..and it goes thro such phases. Deadly at first then slowly it lose it's punch as our immune system improves. We pass such info to new generation thro' mutation.

Now some europeans (maybe 1/3) have gene mutation that protect them from hiv-aids. The gene mutation is traced plus 5,000 yrs. That shows HIV or HIV like disease had appeared enough for that gene mutation to develop.

Some Africans who have lived in malaria zones are immune from Malaria...their red blood cells is differently shaped [hameglobin is sicked celled]..the side effect is sicke cell anemia..

Bottom and top line: You have to remain open minded when it come to science...as long as it supported by rigorous study...i will flow with it.

It would appear most folks are still running with the Congo origin hypothesis.  Where can I find the study about the 5,000 year gene mutation? 

Pundit, this sort of explains why there is no HIV epidemic in England for example.  The amount of sex being had by Brits is unreal.  Kicks off at 13 all the way to geriatrics... Most of it unprotected because other sti are spreading fast.

bryan,

In England, and the rest of the world outside Africa, HIV/AIDS hits gay men disproportionately.  It's very very low among heterosexuals...

[RV Pundit]

Termie,

HIV-AIDS sicentist are finding out that apart from CD4; you need another receptor ccr5 for HIV to attach into your cells; europeans esp north ones (scandavians) have mutation of ccr5-delta32 that partial (if  inherited from one parent) protect them or compeltely does that if both parents had that mutation.

Cells with the CD4 receptor are an important part of the body's system for fighting all diseases (our immune system). HIV gradually destroys these cells and cripples the immune system.


It turns out that CD4 isn't enough. Another protein called CCR5 is needed as well. CCR5, called a co-receptor because it works with CD4, is the door that opens to allow HIV to enter the cell.

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn't on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie,

HIV-AIDS sicentist are finding out that apart from CD4; you need another receptor ccr5 for HIV to attach into your cells; europeans esp north ones (scandavians) have mutation of ccr5-delta32 that partial (if  inherited from one parent) protect them or compeltely does that if both parents had that mutation.

Cells with the CD4 receptor are an important part of the body's system for fighting all diseases (our immune system). HIV gradually destroys these cells and cripples the immune system.


It turns out that CD4 isn't enough. Another protein called CCR5 is needed as well. CCR5, called a co-receptor because it works with CD4, is the door that opens to allow HIV to enter the cell.

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn't on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

I found this story here http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news13.

It would seem to suggest that upto 1% of bazungu, mostly Scandinavians would be fully immune.  And upto 20% partially so.  That would seem to leave about 79% of uncircumcised fellows that should not be able to benefit from this tweak. 

Would that be enough to explain why uncircumcised Europeans are less impacted by HIV than uncircumcised Africans?  Among many other factors. Possibly.  But what about the difference between the US(circumcised with higher rates) and Brazil(uncircumcised with lower rates)?

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn't on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

People with two copies of the CCR5 delta32 gene (inherited from both parents) are virtually immune to HIV infection. This occurs in about 1% of Caucasian people.

[RV Pundit]

I think recent studies have shown the resistance by those europe folks to be higher..in any case..just because you can contract ebola..doesn't mean it will spread everywhere..there are of course other aspect..including condom use..education..awareness...

I still think circumscion definitely plays a part.

Termie,

HIV-AIDS sicentist are finding out that apart from CD4; you need another receptor ccr5 for HIV to attach into your cells; europeans esp north ones (scandavians) have mutation of ccr5-delta32 that partial (if  inherited from one parent) protect them or compeltely does that if both parents had that mutation.

Cells with the CD4 receptor are an important part of the body's system for fighting all diseases (our immune system). HIV gradually destroys these cells and cripples the immune system.


It turns out that CD4 isn't enough. Another protein called CCR5 is needed as well. CCR5, called a co-receptor because it works with CD4, is the door that opens to allow HIV to enter the cell.

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn't on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

I found this story here http://genetics.thetech.org/original_news/news13.

It would seem to suggest that upto 1% of bazungu, mostly Scandinavians would be fully immune.  And upto 20% partially so.  That would seem to leave about 79% of uncircumcised fellows that should not be able to benefit from this tweak. 

Would that be enough to explain why uncircumcised Europeans are less impacted by HIV than uncircumcised Africans?  Among many other factors. Possibly.  But what about the difference between the US(circumcised with higher rates) and Brazil(uncircumcised with lower rates)?

Many people who are resistant to HIV have a mutation in the CCR5 gene called CCR5-delta32. The CCR5-delta32 mutation results in a smaller protein that isn't on the outside of the cell anymore. Most forms of HIV cannot infect cells if there is no CCR5 on the surface.

People with two copies of the CCR5 delta32 gene (inherited from both parents) are virtually immune to HIV infection. This occurs in about 1% of Caucasian people.