SCOK Scared of ruling

[bryan274]

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Listening to the questions from the judges and the format asked it seems like the judges are not keen on breaking new ground with this petition.  Which is surprising as they seem to be keen on retaining Chebukati to oversee the repeat election after listening to a day where he was thoroughly exposed.

It seems like UDA were playing for this when they rigged the election.  But, there's no escape for SCOK either.  They need to deal with this hot potato and serve justice.

[Dear Mami]

Brian, quite frankly, it's not their job to solve political crises!!!! The problem is the Constitution: it's inadequate! That's not SCOK's to fix. Frankly, those extra-constitutuional prayers and the need to justify them are stealing time that should've been better used to explain to the court your theory of how the fraud, as alleged, was done. They are boomers who don't even understand how a physical form can be replaced with another that is almost identical: that should be the focus. If it was adequately explained, they might've been convinced of a non-rerun resolution that satiafies both sides, like retallying from authentic sources. SCOK isn't the end all be all for our rotten politics. They are judges.

[bryan274]

Brian, quite frankly, it's not their job to solve political crises!!!! The problem is the Constitution: it's inadequate! That's not SCOK's to fix. Frankly, those extra-constitutuional prayers and the need to justify them are stealing time that should've been better used to explain to the court your theory of how the fraud, as alleged, was done. They are boomers who don't even understand how a physical form can be replaced with another that is almost identical: that should be the focus. If it was adequately explained, they might've been convinced of a non-rerun resolution that satiafies both sides, like retallying from authentic sources. SCOK isn't the end all be all for our rotten politics. They are judges.

That's very true.  However the SCOK should be pragmatic enough to appreciate that the framers of the constitution didn't fully expect and design for such a massive fraud that included the participation of the IEBC Chairman no less.  We live in extraordinary times and the SCOK needs to be creative and innovative enough to steer the nation through this time.  Not just sitting on their hands screaming constitution. 

Also the SCOK needs to appreciate that the petitioners didn't have adequate time to fully investigate and understand the plan and execution of the rig. 

The SCOK must be brave and innovate.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Brian, quite frankly, it's not their job to solve political crises!!!! The problem is the Constitution: it's inadequate! That's not SCOK's to fix. Frankly, those extra-constitutuional prayers and the need to justify them are stealing time that should've been better used to explain to the court your theory of how the fraud, as alleged, was done. They are boomers who don't even understand how a physical form can be replaced with another that is almost identical: that should be the focus. If it was adequately explained, they might've been convinced of a non-rerun resolution that satiafies both sides, like retallying from authentic sources. SCOK isn't the end all be all for our rotten politics. They are judges.

Was that the Smoking Wanjala questioning?  I saw a bit of that.  And he was not just merely being obtuse for the heck of it.  Philomena Mwilu - and I think Lenaola to an extent - are not out of their depth discussing technology.  In my experience, anybody with "common sense" should not have any trouble understanding the gist of it. 

[Dear Mami]

Termie, I don't doubt their ability to understand. I've seen the tweets quoting the questions and it's just obvious to me Azimio haven't adequately explained their theory to them. And people that age, if not in IT, need a good explanation.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie, I don't doubt their ability to understand. I've seen the tweets quoting the questions and it's just obvious to me Azimio haven't adequately explained their theory to them. And people that age, if not in IT, need a good explanation.

To be fair, I didn't understand it either, until you explained it.  I just didn't think that such an outrageous action can be contemplated.  It still seems unbelievable.  But merely disbelieving outrageous things, is not the same as evidence that they can't happen.  And the way to exclude them is transparency. 

So you are right that the issue may not even be technology, but poor articulation of the theory. But it could be in the written submissions(I am not particularly attuned to this petition this time round).

[Dear Mami]

Was that the Smoking Wanjala questioning?  I saw a bit of that.  And he was not just merely being obtuse for the heck of it.  Philomena Mwilu - and I think Lenaola to an extent - are not out of their depth discussing technology.  In my experience, anybody with "common sense" should not have any trouble understanding the gist of it. 

Ah, I've watched the video of questions now and see what you mean. I agree with you; they were not obtuse. They're also not challenging so much as keenly querying. But I was also right  It's Azimio's theory of what happened that's mostly not understood. They're also trying to clarify the reliefs they might grant in case they find in favor of petitioners in terms of their legal justifications and implications for the Commission and Country. All very sober.

Having seen it, I don't understand why the reading that they're afraid. They're very sober. They'd be negligent if they didn't ask these questions. And if they didn't that might actually be the sign they're not even bothering with it. They're clearly carefully considering everything and that's what you want good judges to do.

[GeeMail]

Brian, quite frankly, it's not their job to solve political crises!!!! The problem is the Constitution: it's inadequate! That's not SCOK's to fix. Frankly, those extra-constitutuional prayers and the need to justify them are stealing time that should've been better used to explain to the court your theory of how the fraud, as alleged, was done. They are boomers who don't even understand how a physical form can be replaced with another that is almost identical: that should be the focus. If it was adequately explained, they might've been convinced of a non-rerun resolution that satiafies both sides, like retallying from authentic sources. SCOK isn't the end all be all for our rotten politics. They are judges.

Thats the thing! I hope someone would explain how a PDF can be falsified at source and transmitted to tallying. It appears this happened many times. Also issue of Chebukati PA Kwanusu and Dahir and other non-gazetted persons and Venezuelans having access to server was big.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Brian, quite frankly, it's not their job to solve political crises!!!! The problem is the Constitution: it's inadequate! That's not SCOK's to fix. Frankly, those extra-constitutuional prayers and the need to justify them are stealing time that should've been better used to explain to the court your theory of how the fraud, as alleged, was done. They are boomers who don't even understand how a physical form can be replaced with another that is almost identical: that should be the focus. If it was adequately explained, they might've been convinced of a non-rerun resolution that satiafies both sides, like retallying from authentic sources. SCOK isn't the end all be all for our rotten politics. They are judges.

Thats the thing! I hope someone would explain how a PDF can be falsified at source and transmitted to tallying. It appears this happened many times. Also issue of Chebukati PA Kwanusu and Dahir and other non-gazetted persons and Venezuelans having access to server was big.

The theory doesn't say that.  In my head I think of it as replacement after transmission.  KIEMS fires off a file(whatever the format); server receives it, but it's replaced by something else or altered. 

The reason I find it hard to pull off(without getting caught) is because you have to clean up the associated trail by 1) replacing files(and physical forms) sent to the county and 2) replacing physical forms at Bomas.  That is also the same reason it should be easy to confirm or dismiss; and also why IEBC should be risking life and limb to bare all this information out there in order to put the narrative to sleep.

[Dear Mami]

Termie, the physical 34As sent to the Constituency are the same ones that go to Bomas (later) from the Constituency. But the digital scans are sent to both the Constituency and National center. The agents copies are the only other physical 34As apart from the copy sealed in the ballot box. That's why the issue of Azimio failing to post agents became such a big issue.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie, the physical 34As sent to the Constituency are the same ones that go to Bomas (later) from the Constituency. But the digital scans are sent to both the Constituency and National center. The agents copies are the only other physical 34As apart from the copy sealed in the ballot box. That's why the issue of Azimio failing to post agents became such a big issue.

I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  I have really been lazy this cycle.  I imagine lack of agents would simplify the job because potentially falsified information would come from the source and negate the need for changes upstream.  Is that right?

[Dear Mami]

Termie, the physical 34As sent to the Constituency are the same ones that go to Bomas (later) from the Constituency. But the digital scans are sent to both the Constituency and National center. The agents copies are the only other physical 34As apart from the copy sealed in the ballot box. That's why the issue of Azimio failing to post agents became such a big issue.

I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  I have really been lazy this cycle.  I imagine lack of agents would simplify the job because potentially falsified information would come from the source and negate the need for changes upstream.  Is that right?

I don't know what Geemail means by source but Azimio's claim is that AFTER it was sent from KIEMS it was changed and then distributed to the Constituency and National portals.

So in the end you have these sources of 34As:
1) The IEBC physical copy that goes from PS, to Constituency to Bomas
2) The IEBC physical copy sealed in the box
3) Agent's physical copies
4) Original scan sent from KIEMS.

If Azimio's claim is true, and they failed to post agents, then you'd only need to reconcile no. 1, 3, and 4 (So, IEBC physical copy, UDA's, and online/digital). Or open boxes.

So the reason I wanted KIEMS audit is to be sure that this didn't happen (to confirm the IEBC and UDA copies). The only other source apart from original KIEMS would be ballot boxes.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Termie, the physical 34As sent to the Constituency are the same ones that go to Bomas (later) from the Constituency. But the digital scans are sent to both the Constituency and National center. The agents copies are the only other physical 34As apart from the copy sealed in the ballot box. That's why the issue of Azimio failing to post agents became such a big issue.

I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  I have really been lazy this cycle.  I imagine lack of agents would simplify the job because potentially falsified information would come from the source and negate the need for changes upstream.  Is that right?

I don't know what Geemail means by source but Azimio's claim is that AFTER it was sent from KIEMS it was changed and then distributed to the Constituency and National portals.

So in the end you have these sources of 34As:
1) The IEBC physical copy that goes from PS, to Constituency to Bomas
2) The IEBC physical copy sealed in the box
3) Agent's physical copies
4) Original scan sent from KIEMS.

If Azimio's claim is true, and they failed to post agents, then you'd only need to reconcile no. 1, 3, and 4 (So, IEBC physical copy, UDA's, and online/digital). Or open boxes.

So the reason I wanted KIEMS audit is to be sure that this didn't happen (to confirm the IEBC and UDA copies). The only other source apart from original KIEMS would be ballot boxes.

We are on the same page.  If I were IEBC, I would make contested KIEMS access readily available, to the parties, upon request, before, during and after any court process.  By the time we get to court, they would be saying enough, no thank you, with the KIEMS stuff  .  I can't think of why I would have it any other way.

[RV Pundit]

You don't shift the burden of proof to judges, IEBc and the court.This is not a commission of inquiry.This is a court.Its UpTo Azimio to present few sample cases of fraud.They have not presented one.Instead they have forged logs,forged form 34As and corrupted commissioner..all these available in evidence.You can't approach court with forgeries and accuse the other party of the same using the same.This one is 7-Nil.Its like BBI.

[RV Pundit]

Again the paper trail is very extensive... including actual ballots in ballot boxes... scrutiny in constituency should have caught some fraud as form 34B is filled, scrutiny in bomas should have caught it too...observers had their copies..they talied and got same results like Chebukati..not from portal..but from what they collected.This was most free and fair elections.In this era of social media with everyone armed with smartphone..mini computer...any massive fraud would have been caught... because all you need is  take pic of original and send it Raila...or twitter or Facebook.Not single person has presented evidence that what is in portal differs with what they heard or saw in the ground... except those in petition who presented forgeries.The form 34A copies have treasure trove of phone numbers...call them..ask them for their copies

[Njuri Ncheke]

Listening to the questions from the judges and the format asked it seems like the judges are not keen on breaking new ground with this petition.  Which is surprising as they seem to be keen on retaining Chebukati to oversee the repeat election after listening to a day where he was thoroughly exposed.

It seems like UDA were playing for this when they rigged the election.  But, there's no escape for SCOK either.  They need to deal with this hot potato and serve justice.

This is very funny  breaking new ground you say,law is not science to break new ground you have ro rule on what is just simple and clear.
My opinion of the ongoings is the only thing the judges could have is What they are terming as chebukati conduct,but would that be enough to annual an election that has been proven to be clean with no rigging? Personal conduct is not a basis for annulment of an election we all have different conducts as long as they are not illegal then pole,
Welcome to New era you came in just in time!

[RV Pundit]

Again the rigging/hacking is unproven because of low or zero value evidence.What remain unexplained is the last day...switch off of results on live TV, 27 const and commissioners disagreement