ICC witness on cleansing ceremony

[RV Pundit]

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I am not aware of mass cleansing ceremony. The version of cleansing i know..is that those who have killed in war or cattle raid...are cleansed. Not everyone. The ceremony is know as Anyiny (to sweeten)...and as far as i know..during war..it can be done on battle field by elders..so the killer can go back. What normally happen is that once you kill somebody..you're isolated until cleansed...during prolonged battle..they do it on the field or later....at home...where one receives tribal marks for every killed person in addition to cleansing.

During cattle raid like those pokots...when they arrived..those that have killed in battle...are isolated, cleansed (small ceremony) and receives tribal mark for every death..in kalenjin the marks are mostly on the chest...this is i think is nilotic culture.

Cleansing is also done when a kalenjin kills a fellow kalenjin...and cattle compensation dished out.

Kalenjin believe only warriors have not sinned can to go war or raid..otherwise they will be killed. The first vetting is on purity. The sins are many...for instance sleeping with older woman is considered a sin..and anybody who has done so..is told to walk back home..those that have killed previously or in battle...are ineligible..unless cleansed. Otherwise they'll go mad or be killed in battle.

Regarding the regiments..in kipsigis..they are organized first by locality (say administrative division) then regimented into 4 "companies" based on clans. Each company being led by a leader chosen by them. Normally it's one age set waging war or battle..with existing age-set acting as guides and advisors..on the back would be old men...elders..for arrow poison (including treatment) and cleansing..foretelling.

All these are public info...most of it thought during MTC...like is happening right now in my shags.

[bryan275]

So all the prosecutor needs is some shirtless warriors and she may have a good count of the kills?  Taking human life must leave indelible marks on the perpetrators.  I would not like to be in their position.

[RV Pundit]

Yes tribal marks is a sign of bad arse warrior..the more the more bad arse..it really a source of pride...of course growing up as boys we use to adore our own fake marks....by burning small stumps of sticks on our hands and legs..it more like modern day tatoos...my cousin had marks in all his arms...and then his legs...small round marks...we use to make..some from cigarattes end...painful process...just to appear macho. I had many too but they seem to have disappeared..except a few big ones..4 in my arms..and two in legs.

For warriors..the tribal marks..are made by women....for every killed person...they are patterns on the chest. Now if you add those boys marks..the guy look like caricature of badly done tatoos.

Cleansing i think is done to take away the torment of murder.....

So all the prosecutor needs is some shirtless warriors and she may have a good count of the kills?  Taking human life must leave indelible marks on the perpetrators.  I would not like to be in their position.

[TrueRV]

RVP,
   You nailed well & I loved it. Read the book, "Cliff Dwellers of Kenya", by Massam 1927. It clearly tells that during cattle rustling time, if you kill a human being, you will not be allowed into your community right away. You will be isolated somewhere in a bush or a strategic Sirikwa holes for cleansing. You will remain there for about 7 days.

After that your name will be renamed with beginning name "Bar.." Barngetuny, Bartonyo, .... The word Bar in Kalenjin means "kill"

[RV Pundit]

This article put in perspective...we were doing it to proof we were ready to walk on fire..we were really scared about initiation[they use to tell us we would walk through big fire]...and to show we were macho enough...we would torture ourself by letting cigarattes end burn into our skin..there was special tree with cigaretee like filler...we would place it on our arms, burn it and then wait without flinching..before other boys..and festering wounds would heal..creating marks.

Kalenjin belief in stoicism.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners
When Manners was 12 years old, he lived for a while in Kalenjin country, where his dad was an anthropologist. And as a boy, Manners noticed his friends had scars on their arms and legs where they'd burned themselves with hot coals.

The Initiation Ceremony

Manners soon learned that they were practicing for an initiation ceremony, a rite of passage that is all about enduring pain

[RV Pundit]

Hi True, Have heard nothing like mass cleansing. During 2008 i even heard on kass fm some old men asking those who had killed or sin to quietly approach wazee and have cleansing done on them.Cleansing is only done to those who have sin...killed.

Am not sure what ceremony entail..but from what i have heard..it more like tumto...it certainly entails shaving of the hair...and when one emerge..the old women would put the tribal marks....and the name would be given..Bartoo...barmasai (kill masai)..bartaa..

RVP,
   You nailed well & I loved it. Read the book, "Cliff Dwellers of Kenya", by Massam 1927. It clearly tells that during cattle rustling time, if you kill a human being, you will not be allowed into your community right away. You will be isolated somewhere in a bush or a strategic Sirikwa holes for cleansing. You will remain there for about 7 days.

After that your name will be renamed with beginning name "Bar.." Barngetuny, Bartonyo, .... The word Bar in Kalenjin means "kill"

[vooke]

This is interesting. Is there a remote probability that Bensouda conjured up the entire ceremony out of thin air?

[gout]

interesting interpretation

Taking human life must leave indelible marks on the perpetrators.

[RV Pundit]

Bensauda was fed half-truths. Kalenjin cultures and traditions are all over. What charlatans do is to take what really happened (cleansing did happen) and then throw in lies to ensare Ruto and Sang. Cleansing did happen secretly for all those that committed sins during the war. There is nothing like mass cleansing ceremony that i heard of.

The same thing with oathing and dogs...oathing does happen in kalenjin but in different way and for different purpose. Kalenjin unlike kikuyus do not oath to go to war...that is normal day to day activity..a duty of reigning warriors.

Kalenjin oath...very very rarely..because it believe a curse will befall somebody...rarely like when somebody has been killed in cold blood and nobody has come out.

Another oath i can think about..is after initiation..Kalenjin take a oath of secrecy...never to reveal what happens in initiation.

This is interesting. Is there a remote probability that Bensouda conjured up the entire ceremony out of thin air?

[TrueRV]

Hi RVP,
    I am as old as I can but I have NEVER seen or heard of what this idots tells them aka cleansing. I have never never heard of it in Keiyo in modern days except for reading of such in history books. Only a blue eyed bitch will believe on such rubbish.

Even more, who would administer such cleansing in absence/death of those elders who went thru it. How will they know how it is administered? Ghasia to those who believe in such a witness, who probably never went thru MTC.

Hi True, Have heard nothing like mass cleansing. During 2008 i even heard on kass fm some old men asking those who had killed or sin to quietly approach wazee and have cleansing done on them.Cleansing is only done to those who have sin...killed.

Am not sure what ceremony entail..but from what i have heard..it more like tumto...it certainly entails shaving of the hair...and when one emerge..the old women would put the tribal marks....and the name would be given..Bartoo...barmasai (kill masai)..bartaa..

RVP,
   You nailed well & I loved it. Read the book, "Cliff Dwellers of Kenya", by Massam 1927. It clearly tells that during cattle rustling time, if you kill a human being, you will not be allowed into your community right away. You will be isolated somewhere in a bush or a strategic Sirikwa holes for cleansing. You will remain there for about 7 days.

After that your name will be renamed with beginning name "Bar.." Barngetuny, Bartonyo, .... The word Bar in Kalenjin means "kill"

Hi True, Have heard nothing like mass cleansing. During 2008 i even heard on kass fm some old men asking those who had killed or sin to quietly approach wazee and have cleansing done on them.Cleansing is only done to those who have sin...killed.

Am not sure what ceremony entail..but from what i have heard..it more like tumto...it certainly entails shaving of the hair...and when one emerge..the old women would put the tribal marks....and the name would be given..Bartoo...barmasai (kill masai)..bartaa..

RVP,
   You nailed well & I loved it. Read the book, "Cliff Dwellers of Kenya", by Massam 1927. It clearly tells that during cattle rustling time, if you kill a human being, you will not be allowed into your community right away. You will be isolated somewhere in a bush or a strategic Sirikwa holes for cleansing. You will remain there for about 7 days.

Hi True, Have heard nothing like mass cleansing. During 2008 i even heard on kass fm some old men asking those who had killed or sin to quietly approach wazee and have cleansing done on them.Cleansing is only done to those who have sin...killed.

Am not sure what ceremony entail..but from what i have heard..it more like tumto...it certainly entails shaving of the hair...and when one emerge..the old women would put the tribal marks....and the name would be given..Bartoo...barmasai (kill masai)..bartaa..

RVP,
   You nailed well & I loved it. Read the book, "Cliff Dwellers of Kenya", by Massam 1927. It clearly tells that during cattle rustling time, if you kill a human being, you will not be allowed into your community right away. You will be isolated somewhere in a bush or a strategic Sirikwa holes for cleansing. You will remain there for about 7 days.

After that your name will be renamed with beginning name "Bar.." Barngetuny, Bartonyo, .... The word Bar in Kalenjin means "kill"

After that your name will be renamed with beginning name "Bar.." Barngetuny, Bartonyo, .... The word Bar in Kalenjin means "kill"

[RV Pundit]

Another lie is war songs..never heard of war songs. I knew circumcision songs. Mainly sang to praise wars by your regiments...historic wars of the yore.

[TrueRV]

gout,
   taking 1 million Iraqis by the Bush fmly and escape ICC must look beautiful to them. Only 1000+ Kenyans died compared to what the blue eyed person admire of Iraq, Syria, Gaza...

[TrueRV]

In kalenjin there is nothing like a war song. There is "war cry" or whatever one wants to call it. War cry normally happen at night when a lion or such animal came close to residential place and needed to be removed. One persorn cannot do that, so the men have to shout from one mountain to another to gather numerous worriers and their spear and to redirect them to the battle place. It is not a cry but a community alert. All brave worriers ends up there with their spear and two sets of arrows: poisoned and non poisoned.
TRV

Another lie is war songs..never heard of war songs. I knew circumcision songs. Mainly sang to praise wars by your regiments...historic wars of the yore.

[RV Pundit]

Indeed. The war cry is just a scream. How can that be played. I know luhya and i think gusii have war songs..they go to battle ground with drums...it a bantu thing..drums of wars.

In kalenjin there is nothing like a war song. There is "war cry" or whatever one wants to call it. War cry normally happen at night when a lion or such animal came close to residential place and needed to be removed. One persorn cannot do that, so the men have to shout from one mountain to another to gather numerous worriers and their spear and to redirect them to the battle place. It is not a cry but a community alert. All brave worriers ends up there with their spear and two sets of arrows: poisoned and non poisoned.
TRV

[TrueRV]

Keiyos enemies have been neighboring Tugen or Chamus. It has been Nandi or Tugen bcoz of its proximity. It was all about cattle rustling. That is why one could kill to retain the captured cattle.

Chamus, aka Ilchamus a wing of Mamai's did so much damage to Tugen and Kieiyos. My dad told how they could go for months spying for cattle and situation while wives dont know while they were dead or alife

[RV Pundit]

From elsewhere..
Fact about cleansing for serious crime as per Kalenjin culture:

You are not cleansed for merely participating or being among the mob.

You are not cleansed to satisfy speculators or some curiosity.

You are cleansed because your arms have struck dead or personal actions have led to lose of (human) life of an opponent irrespective of whether it was an act of aggression on an act in self defense.

Administering of the ritual is by spiritual leaders who have to confirm your culpability.

So just like treatment for snake venom is administered on victim of the bite, no room for mistaken identity of the culprit is allowed as this is a taboo requiring another ritual to reverse the mistake.