Can KDF beat the pokot

[RV Pundit]

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The answer is clear. NO. They will weaken them but to beat Pokot will need more. Pokots are the ultimate bad-arse. My friend kimani in KDF knows that very well. About 8yrs ago..he was facing pokot at night..one mistake too much..he had to smoke..pokot put a bullet right throw his mouth.

Pokot are the ultimate kenyan bad ar.se. They are guys that scares even felllow kalenjin. The ultimate savage,

Pokot cannot be subdued except through Prof Lonyapuo master plan of building schools..and get them boys before they hardened.

KDF have been in pokot land forever...since the days of British Army..Pokot remain unbeatable.

The reason..in every village..unschooled boys..each armed and well trained..are always ready for a fight.

[RV Pundit]

The answer is clear. NO. They will weaken them but to beat Pokot will need more. Pokots are the ultimate bad-arse. My friend kimani in KDF knows that very well. About 8yrs ago..he was facing pokot at night..one mistake too much..he had to smoke..pokot put a bullet right throw his mouth...missing the cigarette by less than inch..he had to re-learn talking.

Pokot are the ultimate kenyan bad ar.se. They are guys that scares even felllow kalenjin. The ultimate savage,

[Georgesoros]

50yrs and the govt has done nothing in this community.
Collective punishment only breeds  a more lethal enemy.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

In purely military Wagalla massacre style terms where there is no care if they kill every man standing, they probably could.  The sheer difference in weaponry would see to that. 

In the real world though, likely not.  Like I mention elsewhere, the Pokots will just see it as a challenge to their manhood.  It's a situation in which a superior military cannot win short of committing war crimes.

[RV Pundit]

If only they could listen to prof Lonyapouo. One guy who saw pokot with 10 university students turn into 3,000 in less than 5yrs. Pokot need more schools. KDF have been in pokot before KDF was formed. British never colonized pokots.

50yrs and the govt has done nothing in this community.
Collective punishment only breeds  a more lethal enemy.

[RV Pundit]

Yes sort of a massacre..it is not possible. KDF have been in pokot forever. Maybe what they have which is new is maybe gunship helicopters and the ability to drop bombs willy nilly.Pokots are going to sit through..wait them out..and eventually wear out KDF...just like they done for many yrs now.

In purely military Wagalla massacre style terms where there is no care if they kill every man standing, they probably could.  The sheer difference in weaponry would see to that. 

In the real world though, likely not.  Like I mention elsewhere, the Pokots will just see it as a challenge to their manhood.  It's a situation in which a superior military cannot win short of committing war crimes.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Yes sort of a massacre..it is not possible. KDF have been in pokot forever. Maybe what they have which is new is maybe gunship helicopters and the ability to drop bombs willy nilly.Pokots are going to sit through..wait them out..and eventually wear out KDF...just like they done for many yrs now.

In purely military Wagalla massacre style terms where there is no care if they kill every man standing, they probably could.  The sheer difference in weaponry would see to that. 

In the real world though, likely not.  Like I mention elsewhere, the Pokots will just see it as a challenge to their manhood.  It's a situation in which a superior military cannot win short of committing war crimes.

I think it comes down to a difference in cultures.  The Pokot does not know when to give up. 

Americans faced the same problem with Japan in World War 2; loosing thousands of lives just to claim one atoll after another.  They did not think twice when the nukes were ready.

[RV Pundit]

More like Afgan. Despite 200,000 NATO troops; everyone is set to leave; exactly where it found it; hostile horrible place.

I think it comes down to a difference in cultures.  The Pokot does not know when to give up. 

Americans faced the same problem with Japan in World War 2; loosing thousands of lives just to claim one atoll after another.  They did not think twice when the nukes were ready.

[MOON Ki]

Not possible.   

First, as RV Pundit has noted on another thread, the Pokot would be fools to give up their weapons while their enemies retained theirs.   They know that, which is why past efforts to disarm them have failed.   

Second, in this day and age, Mt. Elgon and Wagalla type of operations are not realistic options; even Kenyans are wide awake these days, and it is doubtful that they would find that sort of thing acceptable.    I certainly hope so.

So what is left is a "war of attrition", against a "foe" who is determined very determined, who has a lot at stake,  and who knows his territory better than the people he is fighting.   In such circumstances the best KDF can hope for is some short-term "victories", but it is inevitable that it must lose the war.   

As has been pointed out, it is not that the Pokot and fundamentally violent trouble-makers; they are simply continuing their way of life but with guns instead of spears and bow-and-arrows.   State violence is not the way to bring about the necessary transition.    Unfortunately, the red-eyed fellow and his friends are unable to see that.

A huge problem with Kenya to date is that a huge section of the country---from Wajir to Kapenguria---has traditionally been neglected because there has been nothing to "eat" there.  For whatever reason, the belief has been (and still is) that the situation can continue indefinitely.     I don't see how.   And it terms of future "headaches",   the Turkana, with their oil and water, are the next big one.   So far nobody seems to be making an effort to avoid what could be a very nasty situation.

[Mr Mansfield.]

Pokots just like other pastoralists like samburu or turkana are like community police/army with almost every homestead having an AK47,they also understand the terrain much better..KDF or AP can only win against them if well equipped,

Baragoi and Kapedo police killing simple show NIS is lazy and police do not have resources while the police bosses are mediocre,how do you send police at the back of a lorry in such terrain,

Without Prejudice.

[vooke]

They will win.
Pokot militancy is a cultural thing, very soon there will be no need training boys to fight gavaa if they decimate villages indiscriminately. But it will take years. Political considerations will make the gavaa beat a hasty retreat unless it can bribe every  neanderthal leader so look the other way.

But like i once said, the best dawa is pouring money there like there is no tomorrow. Open up the areas by having roads leading to nowhere and massive sponsorships. You may also want to send me there to preach Christ crucified. This does wonders as far as accelerating evilution is concerned

[RV Pundit]

Agreed. Maybe the oil prospect in that region that now extend down to Baringo and ElgeyoMarakwet will change the focus. Pokot will not give up arms when doing so will make them sitting ducks to attacks from other armed rivals.

Ultimately Pokot  or turkana or samburus will only transition when they leave nomadic pastoral-ism for another alternative livelihood.

Gov should invest in such alternative livelihood..dairy farming, horticulture, irrigation, maize farming.....

Marakwet are a classic example of people who have completely transitioned from cattle keeping to farming.

Not possible.   

First, as RV Pundit has noted on another thread, the Pokot would be fools to give up their weapons while their enemies retained theirs.   They know that, which is why past efforts to disarm them have failed.   

Second, in this day and age, Mt. Elgon and Wagalla type of operations are not realistic options; even Kenyans are wide awake these days, and it is doubtful that they would find that sort of thing acceptable.    I certainly hope so.

So what is left is a "war of attrition", against a "foe" who is determined very determined, who has a lot at stake,  and who knows his territory better than the people he is fighting.   In such circumstances the best KDF can hope for is some short-term "victories", but it is inevitable that it must lose the war.   

As has been pointed out, it is not that the Pokot and fundamentally violent trouble-makers; they are simply continuing their way of life but with guns instead of spears and bow-and-arrows.   State violence is not the way to bring about the necessary transition.    Unfortunately, the red-eyed fellow and his friends are unable to see that.

A huge problem with Kenya to date is that a huge section of the country---from Wajir to Kapenguria---has traditionally been neglected because there has been nothing to "eat" there.  For whatever reason, the belief has been (and still is) that the situation can continue indefinitely.     I don't see how.   And it terms of future "headaches",   the Turkana, with their oil and water, are the next big one.   So far nobody seems to be making an effort to avoid what could be a very nasty situation.

[RV Pundit]

The problem is the old cattle. And thus cattle rustling. It easy to steal those zebus and drive them 100kms. There is also ready market for them. What ultimately will change these people up northern kenya is change of livelihood from pastoralism to something that make rustling non issues.

Pokot use to attack and massacre villages in Marakwet. Marakwet tried all sort of defence..guns,arrows,police,army and name it...nothing doing...eventually they decided enough was enough with stupid zebus..sold them off....and changed their livelihood...to modern dairy cows, horticulture (now leading sources of Mangos) and charcoal burning. Pokot basically were defeated without any war.

This is also true for any pastoralist communities..including many kalenjin..only way to defeat them is to keep off zebus...if you must keep a cow...try a freshian. Even kikuyus of Molo and sorrounding areas have long realized that was only way to beat them. The same with Gusii.

Cattle rustlers thrive on ZEBUs...the hardened animal that can ran and ran like a gazelle.

Nomadic Pastoralism which is an invention or evolution of Nilotes simply has no future given the increasingly limited land everywhere. Maasai are some negros that need to be driven out of Nairobi streets with their zebus.

They will win.
Pokot militancy is a cultural thing, very soon there will be no need training boys to fight gavaa if they decimate villages indiscriminately. But it will take years. Political considerations will make the gavaa beat a hasty retreat unless it can bribe every  neanderthal leader so look the other way.

But like i once said, the best dawa is pouring money there like there is no tomorrow. Open up the areas by having roads leading to nowhere and massive sponsorships. You may also want to send me there to preach Christ crucified. This does wonders as far as accelerating evilution is concerned

[RV Pundit]

Here is how Marakwet did it. Something tugen,turkana,pokot and samburu can do to avoid the menace of pastoralism.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Kerio-Valley-turns-to-fruits-after-years-of-cattle-rustling/-/539546/1431080/-/tkxu0fz/-/index.html

[Olekoima]

They can only do so if they change the way they are doing their operation. They should copy what the UPDF of Uganda did in Karamoja district.Also they need to equally disarm all the neighboring communities and then police all the borders to stem the illegal flow of weapons into the country. Finally the government needs to invest in these areas by building more schools, improving agriculture and finding ways of generating income for the idle youth in the area.

[gout]

where has KDF gone?? pokots on fire all over rift valley

daring kainuk ..... lucky vip convoy was around

[RV Pundit]

Brits,Kenyatta and Moi send nearly annual expedition against pokot but never succeeded. Only more schools and such initiative will modernize pokots..not more KDF.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

where has KDF gone?? pokots on fire all over rift valley

daring kainuk ..... lucky vip convoy was around

KDF are resourceful.  Once they identify the local economic activity, they focus fully on it.  In Kapedo, they are now cattle rustlers.

When in Rome, they do as the Romans do.

[Omollo]