Dr Myles Munroe is dead

[bittertruth]

[vooke]

Circumcision and also animal sacrifices came long before the Law. I propose you engage in both. ANd while at it get several concubines because Abraham the Father of Faith did

I never said Munroe dissed tithing like I did, to him it was a point he least emphasized and in one of the books he said give to God not necessarily 10%

[mya88]

Circumcision and also animal sacrifices came long before the Law. I propose you engage in both. ANd while at it get several concubines because Abraham the Father of Faith did

I never said Munroe dissed tithing like I did, to him it was a point he least emphasized and in one of the books he said give to God not necessarily 10%

http://www.mwakilishi.com/content/articles/2014/11/04/speaking-of-pastors-here-are-photos-of-kiunas-mansion.html

[vooke]

mya88,
Please refer to my Sunday sermon.
The gospel of our Lord Jesus is free. Spreading it is not. This means without funding/resources it is impossible to spread the Word. You need first willing hearts, men and Women who heed to Jesus commission. Secondly you need money to move around, hold meetings, sustain yourself as you preach because most likely you won't be working while preaching. In short, giving for the gospel is Godly.

There are many exhortations to give. Jesus Himself was supported by many women like Mary Magdalene-Luke 8:2-3. So vooke will not hesitate to collect an offering from you! Do you mind sowing into my life an iPad mini 2?

My beef is with the ministers who abuse this right to be supported and use any means to exact money from you. They will twist verses, promise utopia like health and wealth so as to entice you to give. They exaggerate the few success testimonies in a sea of frustrated folks. They peddle false hope and make millions out of the needy and the most vulnerable

There is a high positive correlation between ministers' personal wealth and the vigor with which they push the prosperity gospel. You preach hard,you live large. Deluded wor shippers are told that the exponentially increasing wealth of the pastor is as a result of prosperity gospel. But the truth is prosperity preachers will make money whether their messages work or not. As long as am collecting tithes, it doesn't matter whether God prospers the tither, I get the tithes of both the successful givers and the unsuccessful.

Tithing in the scriptures was MANDATORY for all Jews. This system was adopted about 500AD into the church. Before that, the gospel was supported by Freewill offerings as Paul taught. Tithing is still with us today and badly abused. You are promised health,new jobs,more money, success and just about everything.

Then you have seed-faith where guys are told to give money for ANY prayer request they have. mya88 needs a kid, sow a seed of x amount, need a job, sow a seed of y. Giving to God is reduced to an investment with capital and returns and a rate of return.

vooke is not an activist but he endavors to free believers from such abusive doctrines by sharing the truth. Many believers are hurting, they are disillusioned. They think God has forgotten them, they were sold false hope. I was writing a book but I have decided to take my time even as I engage my friends and anyone the Lord leads me.

Am surprised that most of my friends have reservations on some of these teachings. Please note the teachings cut across sects and denominations. So am not fighting Catholics or Deliverance church.

http://www.mwakilishi.com/content/articles/2014/11/04/speaking-of-pastors-here-are-photos-of-kiunas-mansion.html

[mya88]

mya88,
Please refer to my Sunday sermon.
Secondly you need money to move around, hold meetings, sustain yourself as you preach because most likely you won't be working while preaching. In short, giving for the gospel is Godly.
There are many exhortations to give. Jesus Himself was supported by many women like Mary Magdalene-Luke 8:2-3. So vooke will not hesitate to collect an offering from you! Do you mind sowing into my life an iPad mini 2?

Then you have seed-faith where guys are told to give money for ANY prayer request they have. mya88 needs a kid, sow a seed of x amount, need a job, sow a seed of y. Giving to God is reduced to an investment with capital and returns and a rate of return.

[vooke]

mya,
I have an ipad Air for nipate and other mundane stuff. The mini will be purely for the Word
OK, I was kidding on that. Please don't take offense. The little I do on .com and .org I can afford without sweat.

There is nothing wrong with living large, but if it comes from convincing the gullible that giving you money will endear them to God and earn them fortunes then we have a problem.

Size is intimidating. Recall David and Goliath. So when most people see Dexter Jakes thundering from the pulpit, they are least likely to question anything he says. There almost seems to be an unwritten rule that if he/she is this big, he can't be wrong. If Paul, the greatest apostle,pastor,preacher who ever lived was subjected to scrutiny by the people of Berea (Acts 17:11), nobody should be immune from scrutiny. Am a skeptic, I take what you say and test it against scriptures because if you mislead me, we will both end up in hell; you for misrepresenting God,me for believing your lies

I watched the first few episodes of Preachers of LA and I got bored. There is no place for such opulence in the Bible. These guys are just serving their own god, their belly. It is sad.


I agree with you about faith being a seed but these guys equate offering to the seed not the faith. so it is all about who gives MORE. The more you give, the more you  prosper. This is unbiblical. The poor widow gave among the least denomination of the then currency and she was more JUSTIFIED that those who gave several times her giving. If that woman gave today,she would not get a reserved seat at the front of a megachurch. IT is the millionaires givers who are more honored today.  Funy thing is what men esteem most is oft times worthless before God

Paul 'pressured' the poor to give, but ONLY for CHARITY not his lifestyle. When it came to his own sustenance, he often waived the right to an income and opted to work with his hands. Paul had no qualms with poor Macedonians giving to the poor saints of Jerusalem. But he could not burden the poor to support him. Nowadays you have the poor supporting one individual lead an obscene lifestyle. This is manifested in jets, rides, castles and so forth. THis is wrong. One disgraced former head of Mars Hill church had some stooges proposing that he earn $650,000 per annum. Churches are not corporations where leaders become millionaires simply because giving has increased. There is CITAM with thousands across the country here and I was shocked to learn that the former head, Bishop Adoyo spins a Toyota 110. That's a worthless junk costing no more than 400,000 KES. That is the spirit

You can do this simple test; confirm how many of the prosperity preachers major in charity work. They seldom. All they collect goes towards never-ending church 'projects'- bigger 'sanctuary', better sound, AC, seats.... administration and so forth. They only pay lip service to charity. I know of a church where the charity department is very vibrant. They visit prisons, hospices, the aged, orphanages....but the members have to raise the funds for these missions over and above what they gave in church as tithes and offerings.