Author Topic: Keroche beyond dead  (Read 7073 times)

Offline RV Pundit

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Keroche beyond dead
« on: March 09, 2022, 09:04:00 AM »

Offline Kadudu

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2022, 10:57:50 AM »
How is this possible? So to owe KRA 22B Ksh, how much would the turnover have to be in a year? How can KRA let the tax arrears get to that level before raising a flag?

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2022, 11:22:01 AM »
Sometimes they audit and backdate taxes if they discover you've been evading.
How is this possible? So to owe KRA 22B Ksh, how much would the turnover have to be in a year? How can KRA let the tax arrears get to that level before raising a flag?

Offline Dimaga

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2022, 04:06:45 PM »
Cost of tabither joining UDA

Offline gout

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2022, 01:14:40 PM »

Ephraim Njega explained it well. Good the stone walled KRA is willing to talk. With nearly everyone crying of bad economy, unemployment on paid bots can support some of the madness. She has a grace period to sort some of the issues.

Excise duty tax disputes are very common. This happens when there's a different interpretation of the law between the taxpayer and KRA.
There was a  famous case involving Coca-Cola Bottlers and KRA. KRA wanted excise duty to include the returnable bottles. The Bottlers weren't for that arguing that these bottles are reused many times and charging them excise duty every time they're refilled would amount to multiple taxation.
When the tax assessment was done in 2009 the local Coca-cola franchises were slapped with a tax demand of KShs 5.6 Billion. This was the excise duty for the bottles between 2006 and 2008.
Until 2004,  the excise duty law had explicitly exempted the bottles from excise duty.  Parliament deleted that section leaving the law quiet on the issue. KRA interpreted that to mean that excise duty could now be levied on the bottles. Parliament later in 2010 reverted to the 2004 position over the issue.
The High Court agreed with KRA in 2012. The Bottlers appealed and the Court of Appeal ruled in their favour in 2019. KRA moved to the Supreme Court and lost the case in 2021 as the Supreme Court was against reopening the case all over again. KRA went back to the Supreme Court seeking a review of the decision but the Supreme Court stuck to its guns and brought the matter to an end in 2022.
I am just reminding us about this case because of the recent issue of Keroche Breweries vs. KRA.
People should differentiate tax disputes like these and tax evasion. People should also note how long the tax disputes can take to resolve.
In the case of Keroche, their tax disputes relate to their ready to drink vodka. Keroche dilutes one of its vodkas with water making it ready to drink. It was paying excise duty on the basis of the undiluted vodka while according to KRA it should have paid a higher tax for the diluted vodka.
There's also another dispute relating to fermented pineapple wine made by Keroche. Keroche was paying 40% excise duty arguing that it was just another fortified wine such as those from grapes. According to KRA the pineapple wine should have been charged 60% excise duty as it should have been classified under "other fortified wines."
In March 2020, the Tax Appeals Tribunal agreed with KRA and required Keroche to pay KShs 9 Billion. These cases were filed in 2015 and 2017.
Keroche appealed the TAT decision at the High Court. The High Court ordered Keroche to pay KRA KShs 500 Billion as a condition to stopping KRA from demanding KShs 9 Billion pending the determination of the case.
I am not a lawyer but I wonder if it was right for the High Court to ask Keroche to pay the KShs 500 million before the full hearing of the KShs 9 Billion dispute. Yet there was a chance however remote that Keroche could win against KRA and the matter could even go all the way to the Court of Appeal.
Since that time, KRA and Keroche have been in endless tussles over the matter. Keroche has been struggling with the payments due to the impact of the pandemic on its business.
People should understand that this is not about other taxes such as corporate tax, VAT, PAYE or even excise duty for the business post 2015/2017 when the above disputes arose.
It is not right to accuse Keroche of evading taxes due to a tax dispute affecting some of its products. Even for these products, it is not that they weren't paying the taxes but it is the lower amount they were paying which is disputed.
This is a matter which can only be competently adjudicated by the courts.

Esther Ang'awa implies she was lead to the slaughterhouse by KRA probably on mediation by Raila/Oburu (2006-2013)who has abandoned her.

"Unsolicited advice to anyone who cares to listen: Alternative Dispute Resolution with Kenya Revenue Authority over claimed taxes is the worst mistake you will ever make.
Keroche Breweries Limited had a fighting chance in Court. Kenya Revenue Authority deluded it to mediate."
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2022, 05:33:41 PM »
Kill it. Alcohol industry should be driven to bankruptcy I'm keya it costs to society is so high to justify its existence

I am no longer supporting alcohol industries

Offline gout

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2022, 09:54:15 AM »
The imperial hypocrisy is getting to toxic pandemic levels. Anything you don't like just kill it. Cancel it. Strangle it with sanctions. Invade it. Bomb it.

Kill it. Alcohol industry should be driven to bankruptcy I'm keya it costs to society is so high to justify its existence

I am no longer supporting alcohol industries
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2022, 04:25:44 PM »
The imperial hypocrisy is getting to toxic pandemic levels. Anything you don't like just kill it. Cancel it. Strangle it with sanctions. Invade it. Bomb it.

Kill it. Alcohol industry should be driven to bankruptcy I'm keya it costs to society is so high to justify its existence

I am no longer supporting alcohol industries

I have no power but that woman alone has done mode harm to kikuyus than anyone else. She has been selling poison to kikuyus since 1990s. Her industry is not useful to my people. I have no power ro shut her down. But I am speaking on behalf of families, alcoholics that have suffered due to her chemicals. What she was selling before those beers was pure spirits the cheap kid. You drink them and turn into a ranging alcoholic with no time. Those that drink these spirits end up looking like crackhead. They even have a nervous system breakdown. It is really crazy that the govt is even taxing this poison. She is not alone but here faio Mario were the pioneers. Her husband learnt from the renegade fai. Fai was eventually shutdown by kra after refusing to pay them over 300 million in the 1990s. His empire still lives on. Tabitha just happened to have come in and legitimized that business taking it to the next level. Her profits are mainly in "fortified wines". Alcoholism in kenya is at a ripe take off stage it is building a momentum that will really fuck the population for a long time to come.  On this boars I was the biggest marketer and supporter of keroche but not anymore

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2022, 04:39:10 PM »
The imperial hypocrisy is getting to toxic pandemic levels. Anything you don't like just kill it. Cancel it. Strangle it with sanctions. Invade it. Bomb it.

Kill it. Alcohol industry should be driven to bankruptcy I'm keya it costs to society is so high to justify its existence

I am no longer supporting alcohol industries

I have no power but that woman alone has done mode harm to kikuyus than anyone else. She has been selling poison to kikuyus since 1990s. Her industry is not useful to my people. I have no power ro shut her down. But I am speaking on behalf of families, alcoholics that have suffered due to her chemicals. What she was selling before those beers was pure spirits the cheap kid. You drink rnem and

Pure spirits!!! Yea that is deep.
Nobody forces anyone to drink. It is a choice.
She has created employment for a thousands who otherwise would have nothing.
Restructure the debt with 0 interest

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2022, 05:05:17 PM »
George
We do not need some jobs. I am against capitalism without a soul. I believe money shouldn't be the end to a means. Her collapse will solve some of society issues and that capital will move somewhere else to produce. I am not one of those that will say just because thus lead producing mine employs the village it shouldn't be close if we know lead is poisoning the environment and killing may of the villagers

Offline gout

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2022, 06:25:31 PM »
You are shooting at an angel for the devil.

First, the market share for hard liquors of Keroche is negligible- at most 2%. Kenyans drink unsafe chang'aa, busaa and all sort of counterfeit from kariobangi. These days populous estates in towns across Kenya have these crazy guys packing ethanol and sometimes methanol into the recycled bottles of fast moving kill me quicks. I suspect the business of even new bottles and branded stickers is booming.

Secondly alcoholism has been with Kikuyus for decades before Keroche. By the time Kenyatta was dying men were messed by Muratina and chang'aa all over. They were saved by Moi, though distorted Kikuyu supremacist claim Moi brought the cheap liqours.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2022, 06:29:18 PM »
Yes kenya is now booming with fake liquour; best to drink beer.
What is needed is beer brewed and delivered at sources;
This should be natural transition from village brewers but gov will not allow it.
So more draft beer by small brewers - every town should have their own draft beer.
But kenya gov has made it very heavily taxed product
And KRA can wake up - and demand your liver - or the remainder from alcohol

Offline audacityofhope

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2022, 09:07:42 PM »
You are shooting at an angel for the devil.

First, the market share for hard liquors of Keroche is negligible- at most 2%. Kenyans drink unsafe chang'aa, busaa and all sort of counterfeit from kariobangi. These days populous estates in towns across Kenya have these crazy guys packing ethanol and sometimes methanol into the recycled bottles of fast moving kill me quicks. I suspect the business of even new bottles and branded stickers is booming.

Secondly alcoholism has been with Kikuyus for decades before Keroche. By the time Kenyatta was dying men were messed by Muratina and chang'aa all over. They were saved by Moi, though distorted Kikuyu supremacist claim Moi brought the cheap liqours.
@Gout, on this one I side with @Plato.
I won't go into an insha but I highlight what you need to relook into as  I suspect
1. Your movement around Kenya has been limited, probably more limited than that of @Pundit. I have issues with Pundit's punditry but he has always convinced me he has traveled the length of most counties in Kenya. He will mention small markets like Chwele, which ordinarily other Kenyans have never heard of...
2. Most of your claims are informed by the present. For those of us who were of age when Moi took over after the death of Jomo, we are more informed as to why the present is a consequence of the past. It is not a "distorted claim" that Moi "brought cheap liquor to [Centro]". It is a fact. Truth is that Moi had policy to control Mt. Kenya by letting them keep busy/drown in liquor. It was an economic weapon to fight the one tribe he considered opposition to him  and that had money to mount a challenge to his govt and even overthrow him.

This is the truth I witnessed I the period 1978 -1982: When Moi took over he went preaching against to vices among Kenyans..
 
1). Magendo (This was rampant at it made a market on the Kenyan-Uganda border infamous. Jomo's wife was said to be a major beneficiary of the illicit trade. Ask me what Magendo of that time was I will tell you. It goes by another name today.
2) The state of local brew in every market in Kenya. Today to find illicit brew, what you are calling "chang'aa, busaa, Muratina", you have to go to hidden private dens. Before 1978, these were not hidden! It was a trade, selling side by side at the market as the mama mboga selling sukuma wiki. It was sad to see drunks as early as 10am in the market. So immediately on taking over as President, Moi closed clubs at the market selling buses and chang'aa. This was strictly enforced all over the republic, except strangely in Mt. Kenya Region. Enterprising kyuks without a soul like Keroche, cashed in, setting up factories to make cheap liquor and con young kyuk men that it was a class above Muratina. Moi looked the other way. A perpetual drink kyuk was less likely to organize himself into a political force. That is a fact. To this day, it is only in Nyeri that men get beaten by women for being too "weak" to sire children with them. It is only in Kiambu that chiefs are still  actively engaged in raising muratina dens. The rest of Kenya  weaned off the brew and only drink it at cultural functions in rather moderate quantities.

So ask yourself why alcohol is more of a problem in Central than the rest of Kenya. Well I just gave an answer.... that reinforces what you have been told by others yet you refuse to believe.

Offline gout

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2022, 12:36:05 PM »
You have bought to the nonsense that Moi was evil. And it being a political season am not trying to dissuade you.
Historically, murang'a was/is derisively known as metumi where men would seal they trousers like diapers.

Magendo is a survival tactic. With lower purchasing powers in Uganda, Tanzania, Somali and Ethiopia, Magendo will always flourish. Chepkube coffee was jomo's baby.

Alcohol is a problem countrywide. Being well travelled you should detour to the villages in Kilifi, Kwale, Mombasa - you get to see the shit. In Kalenjin, Kisii and Western it is worse as busaa and chang'aa is drunk by kids, their parents up to grannies. 

Nairobi is even worse, just that it is easier to make money for drinks thus the wear is not too harsh. For centro you have to feed and milk cows; dig - it is amplified by kikuyu supremacist who cannot reconcile their supremacy with the apathy that still lingers on in central despite uthamakistan being the best thing after bacon.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2022, 09:48:43 AM »

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2022, 10:53:54 AM »
Cost of tabither joining UDA

Why did she join politics at all? With that kind of money, it's better to patronize both sides of a political contest than to join politics. Kenyans are amateur oligarchs. They should learn how the game is played by watching American corporations. Buy both camps and you're assured of safety. They'll even change laws to suit you. This is what the Kenyatta's have done, but they did so by joining politics. In other countries, such people are more like Mama Ngina or Muhoho. They're able to steer clear of all limelight while pulling all the strings through clever lobbying.

Offline hk

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2022, 11:31:48 AM »
keroche cash cow has been the cheap liquor (vienna), this is simply diluted ethyl alcohol. I have never understood why they never invested on a distillery to deflate their tax bill. Ethanol is taxed at 100% or something close to that. All their taxes problems emanates from their spirit business not the brewery. Bottomline taxation and regulations of the alcohol industry is what has led to counterfeit operations.
Craft distillery are doing very well  e.g 254 brewery, the big five(brewbistro), bateleur brewery(bila shaka) and kenya originals). Its about time someone started a muratina craft brewery and a craft changaa distillery.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2022, 11:52:02 AM »
Craft distillery if they start taking KBL pie - will get fingered by KRA. I blame overzealous taxation and you cannot rule out dirty games from EABL. Let see if the big brewery in Naivasha/Maa Mahiu EPZ will get off ground - forget the name - Carslberg?
keroche cash cow has been the cheap liquor (vienna), this is simply diluted ethyl alcohol. I have never understood why they never invested on a distillery to deflate their tax bill. Ethanol is taxed at 100% or something close to that. All their taxes problems emanates from their spirit business not the brewery. Bottomline taxation and regulations of the alcohol industry is what has led to counterfeit operations.
Craft distillery are doing very well  e.g 254 brewery, the big five(brewbistro), bateleur brewery(bila shaka) and kenya originals). Its about time someone started a muratina craft brewery and a craft changaa distillery.

Offline hk

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2022, 12:15:00 PM »
Craft distillery if they start taking KBL pie - will get fingered by KRA. I blame overzealous taxation and you cannot rule out dirty games from EABL. Let see if the big brewery in Naivasha/Maa Mahiu EPZ will get off ground - forget the name - Carslberg?
Craft brewery are doing so well they have forced kbl to produce tusker premium ale btw what havent to mastermind sierra beer?

Offline gout

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Re: Keroche beyond dead
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2022, 06:55:34 PM »
Ruto has past few days spoken loudly about Keroche. Seems he will revive Keroche and Humphrey as part of state capture purge.
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one ~ Thomas Paine