Author Topic: Ukraine vs Russia camps  (Read 5565 times)

Offline mankind

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2022, 12:32:17 AM »
I am pro-west it is the only group that I can trust won't put me in a gulag for wanting simple freedoms
I'm not anti-West. :D I'm very much pro-West but anti-Imperialism. I'm pro-World peace. The Hegemon has been endangering it with shenanigans it pursues on behalf of not even its own people or 'simple freedoms' but its greedy corporations, KSA, Israel, etc., and their interests. It also stands in the way of building structures that could stop everyone from doing things like what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. Instead, it prefers to play King with everyone else . . . yaani dictator, which you guys disavow.:D I'm genuinely scared they would rather destroy the world by driving it into a nuke confrontation with China than be number two.

   Unfortunately the author of this thread fails to understand that the conflict has nothing to do with Ukraine par se  but two opposing camps with their geopolitical agendas.  There is a reason the big countries like China, India and now Brazil are staying neutral.  America supported by its staunchest Anglo-Saxon allies Britain, UK and Australia  is hell bound on preventing any other country from competing with them.  Despite sanctioning Chinese companies and a trade war , Chinese economy grew to overtake the European union  at 18 trillion dollars.  To anyone doing simple math it becomes obvious US economy is going to be overtaken by China very soon.  Without all the sanctions and unfair practices the Russian economy would be bigger than Germany.  The mere thought that the US and it's acolytes would entertain that without a fight is obvious.  Now we should all support Ukrainian sovereignty but condemn the silly using of the country as a staging ground for a  geopolitical war.  Am curious to see how countries will align themselves at the UN general assembly later today and how the case will be presented. To the author of this thread, the world shouldn't be a zero sum game of either or. That is arrogance and Bush Jr  found out the hard way the same. For a historical perspective Yushenko was sponsored by the west in 04 but by 2010 had to share power with Yanakovich.  We might end up with a similar arrangement again. Russians and Ukrainians are like Kikuyu and Meru or Nandi and Kipsigis...very close culture and language.

China without using unfair trade practices such copyright and trademark violations can't compete. All 🇺🇸 has to do is ask for WTO rules to be enforced and China would be in big economic trouble. I used to review  joint ventures aagreements btw China and USA companies. These idiots would demand technology transfer and make it very hard for the 🇺🇸 company to collect. Every quarter I would chase Chinese customers to pay and they would hide behind ccp fx restrictions not to pay. Trump approach on China was right
 They need to be stopped from stealing use technology and just making two set of trade rules. Ccp will never beat America. I know you like writing big inshas as every communist is in love with essays that say nothing

  A supposedly well educated fella engaging in Mcarthysm . The only intelligent thing I see you spout here is shouting Ccp.  It is clear your knowledge of geopolitics is very limited going by the you tube videos you post from people like Chris Chapo or so. I wonder how you were capable of reviewing the said contracts intelligently when you definitely have such bias. Since am not interested in the competition of idiocy and psycophancy I will recommend something that can help you.  Go to Wondrium ( previously known as the great courses plus) and sign up for 30 bucks for a few months then access knowledge that you obviously lack in form of lectures from world renowned professors on I recommend history lessons then come back and argue from a point of knowledge.  Start with the history of the Cia and the many lies,coups and covert operations they have engaged in over decades.  If you come out of there believing half the crap you do then just check yourself into a mental facility.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2022, 12:52:45 AM »
Mankind,

Are you a communist? Do you love communists? Do you hate democracy and free-markets?

I can see you have been baptized by Karl Marx ideology of destruction and backwardness. We are serving Russian Tankies a dose of their own medicine.

Are you living in the west while hating capitalism? I am surprised  even after 100 years of misery you still believe in tankies..like ccp and Russia are moral equivalents of usa. The land of the free and the brave is unmatched when it comes to support of freedom all the world. We liberated the world from Hittler and Japanese emperors. Restored order and we won't allow communists to undo this

Offline mankind

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2022, 01:29:13 AM »
  McCarthy wannabe  Plato do you even know what communism is? I don't have time to educate you so make use of the resource I recommended earlier.  I don't know what you studied but a little knowledge of comparative economics would do you some good too. And please leave the word morality out when it comes to your obsession with the west because am afraid this level of western influence on you would make you sell your own kind as slaves if slavery was brought back. A Russian or Chinese bullet is worse than a Western bullet according to your logic right?

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2022, 04:51:49 AM »
They didnt even know they were going to war??

Offline Stockguru

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2022, 05:04:22 AM »
  McCarthy wannabe  Plato do you even know what communism is? I don't have time to educate you so make use of the resource I recommended earlier.  I don't know what you studied but a little knowledge of comparative economics would do you some good too. And please leave the word morality out when it comes to your obsession with the west because am afraid this level of western influence on you would make you sell your own kind as slaves if slavery was brought back. A Russian or Chinese bullet is worse than a Western bullet according to your logic right?

I am not a ideologue but a very pragmatic man. I love pragmatic principled people. I am very unkind to men like you who want to play Whataboutism on issue that clear cut and are moral issues. You see dictator lovers and communists are kings of gaslighting. You ask them why there is disease, hunger and thirst in their country and they say you know that "ogre Imperialism ate our progress". The boogieman, the man behind the curtain the marionette has to be blamed for your own failures.

Here we have a country that without provocation attacks another and decides that they want to colonize this country in year 2022. everyone and their mother tries to reason with the aggressor but then folks like you have to blame Americans and West. You do not blame your fellow communist Tankie Vladimir Putin

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2022, 05:29:12 AM »
  McCarthy wannabe  Plato do you even know what communism is? I don't have time to educate you so make use of the resource I recommended earlier.  I don't know what you studied but a little knowledge of comparative economics would do you some good too. And please leave the word morality out when it comes to your obsession with the west because am afraid this level of western influence on you would make you sell your own kind as slaves if slavery was brought back. A Russian or Chinese bullet is worse than a Western bullet according to your logic right?

I am not a ideologue but a very pragmatic man. I love pragmatic principled people. I am very unkind to men like you who want to play Whataboutism on issue that clear cut and are moral issues. You see dictator lovers and communists are kings of gaslighting. You ask them why there is disease, hunger and thirst in their country and they say you know that "ogre Imperialism ate our progress". The boogieman, the man behind the curtain the marionette has to be blamed for your own failures.

Here we have a country that without provocation attacks another and decides that they want to colonize this country in year 2022. everyone and their mother tries to reason with the aggressor but then folks like you have to blame Americans and West. You do not blame your fellow communist Tankie Vladimir Putin

Guru, One thing I have learnt is that I will never change anyone's mind about anything. In their own world, they believe what they are saying or doing is right. That s why we have Trumps, Putins,etc. Ever wondered, how did Jim Jones take normal functioning people all the way to Guyana, make them drink poison, and believed that they will go straight to heaven. Mental illness is real!!!

Offline mankind

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2022, 05:33:34 AM »
  McCarthy wannabe  Plato do you even know what communism is? I don't have time to educate you so make use of the resource I recommended earlier.  I don't know what you studied but a little knowledge of comparative economics would do you some good too. And please leave the word morality out when it comes to your obsession with the west because am afraid this level of western influence on you would make you sell your own kind as slaves if slavery was brought back. A Russian or Chinese bullet is worse than a Western bullet according to your logic right?

I am not a ideologue but a very pragmatic man. I love pragmatic principled people. I am very unkind to men like you who want to play Whataboutism on issue that clear cut and are moral issues. You see dictator lovers and communists are kings of gaslighting. You ask them why there is disease, hunger and thirst in their country and they say you know that "ogre Imperialism ate our progress". The boogieman, the man behind the curtain the marionette has to be blamed for your own failures.

Here we have a country that without provocation attacks another and decides that they want to colonize this country in year 2022. everyone and their mother tries to reason with the aggressor but then folks like you have to blame Americans and West. You do not blame your fellow communist Tankie Vladimir Putin

   It would serve you well if you first read what I said way earlier on this thread. I don't see issues from narrow lenses but a wider view.  Let me say to you for the record that Russia invading Ukraine is wrong and should be condemned.  Secondly everyone who is pragmatic ( not you) should be able to see this for what it is, a geopolitical war between US/ Nato vs Russia and any other country challenging the western alliance.  Just take some time and watch Australian channels and all they are shouting about is China. You don't have to be a genius to see the bigger picture.  Probably you don't like to  hear comparisons but I tell you don't justify one evil while condemning another if you are genuine.  Don't provide cover for evil regardless of who perpetuates it. As I said earlier to quote that guy in the movie Lord of War...A bullet from a boy is just as effective as a grown man.  The west killing doesnt come with flowers while the Russians do it with stink.. Killing is killing.

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2022, 05:33:39 AM »
Soros.
You are right you can't change a mind that I'd made up. It is hard but we must argue our point of view so that those who are yet to make their minds can learn from it. Cults and emotional driven ideological views are very hard to counter. You see very well meaning people falling for Jimmy Jones of this world

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2022, 07:17:22 AM »
Here we have a country that without provocation attacks another and decides that they want to colonize this country in year 2022. everyone and their mother tries to reason with the aggressor but then folks like you have to blame Americans and West. You do not blame your fellow communist Tankie Vladimir Putin

Russia won't colonize Ukraine. That's the American way: occupying other countries for decades. Russia will make sure NATO is off the table for Ukraine as it did in Georgia in 2008. There's been peace and good relations with Georgia since 2008, because it was presided over by Obama in the next 5 years, who was very careful about his relationship with Russia.

Secondly, it's very simplistic to claim this act is without provocation. There are at least two important factors that have precipitated it.

One is the oppression of Ethnic Russians within Ukraine by fascists who associate Russia with Jews. It was made worse by the second and even more important factor (due to the potential danger to precipitate nuclear war) which is the American determination to make Ukraine a NATO state.

NATO has rules about not allowing countries that are not internally unified to join. This made Ukraine plan to attack and reintegrate by force the two quasi-independent areas populated by ethnic Russians using their Neo-nazi groups. This is the reason the Western Leftists I've been following were supportive of Russia's first move to enter Ukraine as a peace-keeping force, precisely to protect these two places from what was threatening to be crimes against humanity against ethnic Russians. They have criticized Putin SEVERELY only after extending this beyond those two areas and going after Ukraine proper. They do this while acknowledging this whole thing has been caused by the US and NATO and was EASILY avoidable. I mirror their views.

Ukraine and Georgia in NATO for Russia means missile bases right at the border. It gives Americans a first-strike advantage against Russia, which means they can easily be invaded and not be able to deter an attack even via MAD. In addition, any small disputes with neighbours immediately involve the US. Imagine a scenario in which Mexico was making loud plans to enter a pact with China or Russia that would allow them to set up missiles pointing directly at American cities, right at the Southern border! Do you think Washington would allow that in a million years? Do you think they'd care about "the sovereignty of Mexico" in that scenario? It's something like that in Ukraine: So it's simply not accurate to say it's without provocation. There's a very big provocation: the literal threat of invasion and likelihood of their country falling apart.

The Americans kept pushing, reversing Obama's carful policy, because their toxic internal politics literally made up a transparent bs conspiracy about Putin magically making Trump beat Hilary in 2016. This internal environment has made it impossible to have normal diplomatic relations with Russia in the past 5 years. Basically, Trump is the reason for the US beligerance towards both Russia and China.

Like mankind says, war is always the worst thing. Only nuclear war or a straight genocide can be worse. So no one in their right mind thinks war in Ukraine is a great thing. Where we differ is how we're assigning blame, which them leads to differences in how/where we "see" the solution to the current crisis.

Some want to say that because Putin has responded with this invasion, it's all his fault alone and pointing out reasons and context is 'whataboutism'. I say this is both black and white thinking coupled with magical thinking. Wars don't miraculously fall out of the sky, rafiki. :D Anyone interested in peace without caring about reasons for war is just momentarily indulging their own self-righteousness.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2022, 07:57:15 AM »
Makofi ya kilo. The guys supporting US/EU are victim of western propaganda.
Russia won't colonize Ukraine. That's the American way: occupying other countries for decades. Russia will make sure NATO is off the table for Ukraine as it did in Georgia in 2008. There's been peace and good relations with Georgia since 2008, because it was presided over by Obama in the next 5 years, who was very careful about his relationship with Russia.

Secondly, it's very simplistic to claim this act is without provocation. There are at least two important factors that have precipitated it.

One is the oppression of Ethnic Russians within Ukraine by fascists who associate Russia with Jews. It was made worse by the second and even more important factor (due to the potential danger to precipitate nuclear war) which is the American determination to make Ukraine a NATO state.

NATO has rules about not allowing countries that are not internally unified to join. This made Ukraine plan to attack and reintegrate by force the two quasi-independent areas populated by ethnic Russians using their Neo-nazi groups. This is the reason the Western Leftists I've been following were supportive of Russia's first move to enter Ukraine as a peace-keeping force, precisely to protect these two places from what was threatening to be crimes against humanity against ethnic Russians. They have criticized Putin SEVERELY only after extending this beyond those two areas and going after Ukraine proper. They do this while acknowledging this whole thing has been caused by the US and NATO and was EASILY avoidable. I mirror their views.

Ukraine and Georgia in NATO for Russia means missile bases right at the border. It gives Americans a first-strike advantage against Russia, which means they can easily be invaded and not be able to deter an attack even via MAD. In addition, any small disputes with neighbours immediately involve the US. Imagine a scenario in which Mexico was making loud plans to enter a pact with China or Russia that would allow them to set up missiles pointing directly at American cities, right at the Southern border! Do you think Washington would allow that in a million years? Do you think they'd care about "the sovereignty of Mexico" in that scenario? It's something like that in Ukraine: So it's simply not accurate to say it's without provocation. There's a very big provocation: the literal threat of invasion and likelihood of their country falling apart.

The Americans kept pushing, reversing Obama's carful policy, because their toxic internal politics literally made up a transparent bs conspiracy about Putin magically making Trump beat Hilary in 2016. This internal environment has made it impossible to have normal diplomatic relations with Russia in the past 5 years. Basically, Trump is the reason for the US beligerance towards both Russia and China.

Like mankind says, war is always the worst thing. Only nuclear war or a straight genocide can be worse. So no one in their right mind thinks war in Ukraine is a great thing. Where we differ is how we're assigning blame, which them leads to differences in how/where we "see" the solution to the current crisis.

Some want to say that because Putin has responded with this invasion, it's all his fault alone and pointing out reasons and context is 'whataboutism'. I say this is both black and white thinking coupled with magical thinking. Wars don't miraculously fall out of the sky, rafiki. :D Anyone interested in peace without caring about reasons for war is just momentarily indulging their own self-righteousness.

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2022, 08:50:56 AM »

Offline Njuri Ncheke

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2022, 10:14:46 AM »
I am pro-west it is the only group that I can trust won't put me in a gulag for wanting simple freedoms
I'm not anti-West. :D I'm very much pro-West but anti-Imperialism. I'm pro-World peace. The Hegemon has been endangering it with shenanigans it pursues on behalf of not even its own people or 'simple freedoms' but its greedy corporations, KSA, Israel, etc., and their interests. It also stands in the way of building structures that could stop everyone from doing things like what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now. Instead, it prefers to play King with everyone else . . . yaani dictator, which you guys disavow.:D I'm genuinely scared they would rather destroy the world by driving it into a nuke confrontation with China than be number two.

   Unfortunately the author of this thread fails to understand that the conflict has nothing to do with Ukraine par se  but two opposing camps with their geopolitical agendas.  There is a reason the big countries like China, India and now Brazil are staying neutral.  America supported by its staunchest Anglo-Saxon allies Britain, UK and Australia  is hell bound on preventing any other country from competing with them.  Despite sanctioning Chinese companies and a trade war , Chinese economy grew to overtake the European union  at 18 trillion dollars.  To anyone doing simple math it becomes obvious US economy is going to be overtaken by China very soon.  Without all the sanctions and unfair practices the Russian economy would be bigger than Germany.  The mere thought that the US and it's acolytes would entertain that without a fight is obvious.  Now we should all support Ukrainian sovereignty but condemn the silly using of the country as a staging ground for a  geopolitical war.  Am curious to see how countries will align themselves at the UN general assembly later today and how the case will be presented. To the author of this thread, the world shouldn't be a zero sum game of either or. That is arrogance and Bush Jr  found out the hard way the same. For a historical perspective Yushenko was sponsored by the west in 04 but by 2010 had to share power with Yanakovich.  We might end up with a similar arrangement again. Russians and Ukrainians are like Kikuyu and Meru or Nandi and Kipsigis...very close culture and language.
I agree with most of what you saying. But Russia stands to loose mbig,they are trying to force a GEMA on all slavic countries and in the end they have become so hated by their related tribes.The Polish hate them most followed by other slavic countries and Now Ukraine. Its like Kikuyu(Russia) trying to force Merus(Ukrainians) to be part of them by force. Of course they all share many things in common but like Kikuyu and Meru, Merus are a distinct group and want to remain that way,Now Kikuyus asking Embus(Belarus) to attack Meru too,very funny example. Russia will disintegrate soon watch this space. They have been now fully abandoned by slavic family.

Offline Njuri Ncheke

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2022, 10:16:08 AM »
Sorry Noway Russia is to blame FULL STOP.

Offline Kadudu

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2022, 11:16:39 AM »
Very true. See how Nowayhaha and Pundit busy cheering Putin. The man will be responsible for deaths of thousands of people and people are still showing sympathy to him.

When the US invaded Saddam Hussein's Iraq, I stood by the Iraqis and not Saddam Hussein. It has nothing to do with me being a Western stooge. That war changed the dynamics of the Middle East for the worse.

Putin will change Europe for the worse and anyone thinking Russia will go back to business as usual after conquering Ukraine is dreaming. The rest of Europe will arm itself to the teeth. Not sure if Russia will be able to win this contest as its economy is limited compared to the rest of Europe.

Guru, One thing I have learnt is that I will never change anyone's mind about anything. In their own world, they believe what they are saying or doing is right. That s why we have Trumps, Putins,etc. Ever wondered, how did Jim Jones take normal functioning people all the way to Guyana, make them drink poison, and believed that they will go straight to heaven. Mental illness is real!!!

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2022, 11:32:43 AM »
This is the difference

53 minutes ago

Foreign Students Studying in Russia Face No Disruption in Scholarships

Foreign students studying in Russia receive their scholarships and allowances via the national payment system and face no sanction-related disruptions, the Russian Ministry of Science and Higher Education said on Tuesday.

"All scholarships are paid to Mir payment cards regardless of the issuing bank. There are no problems related to the use of Mir cards in Russia," the ministry said on Telegram.

The ministry added that the cards of international payment systems issued by foreign banks operate in Russia according to the rules of payment systems, both for payment in stores and for cash withdrawals at ATMs, taking into account currency conversion rates.



Sorry Noway Russia is to blame FULL STOP.

Offline mankind

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Offline Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2022, 12:20:43 AM »
They didnt even know they were going to war??

I have seen a few clips of these young lads.  It's a against the law to film them like this.  Also, the sheer incompetence of their military aside, it should also be criminal to place kids like this so casually in harms way(even though they are technically the aggressor).  There was a clip RVHH shared where the convoy had been mowed down; I can't shake the image of a teddy bear that was among the personal items found in one of the tanks.
"I freed a thousand slaves.  I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves."

Harriet Tubman

Offline KenyanPlato

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2022, 01:22:17 AM »
Russian army is drafted. That why the morale is not high. Same thing in China. You are drafted for 4 or 2 years in China. So they have a high turnover meaning very few people stick around to be trained properly plus it is expensive to have a 25% turnover rate. In 🇺🇸 I think you serve 6 years at a minimum.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2022, 01:46:24 AM »
They didnt even know they were going to war??

I have seen a few clips of these young lads.  It's a against the law to film them like this.  Also, the sheer incompetence of their military aside, it should also be criminal to place kids like this so casually in harms way(even though they are technically the aggressor).  There was a clip RVHH shared where the convoy had been mowed down; I can't shake the image of a teddy bear that was among the personal items found in one of the tanks.

Yap its against the law. Had they not stated their names it woulda been OK.

Offline Georgesoros

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Re: Ukraine vs Russia camps
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2022, 01:50:24 AM »
Russian army is drafted. That why the morale is not high. Same thing in China. You are drafted for 4 or 2 years in China. So they have a high turnover meaning very few people stick around to be trained properly plus it is expensive to have a 25% turnover rate. In 🇺🇸 I think you serve 6 years at a minimum.

Morale will also be low because they don't really have a clear objective of the war. They know they are against almost the whole world. Many dont want to become sitting ducks in Ukraine, so they could rather surrender and be in Ukraine.