Ruto forms parrallel cabinet

[RV Pundit]

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He is going to push for NHIF agenda.

I hope they are bringing back this rejected NHIF bill - making NHIF complusory for everyone.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/economy/mps-hand-poor-kenyans-nhif-contribution-relief-3513944

[RV Pundit]

Developing 101.
If you're poor - you have no savings from your past - and the present is so dire - so you cannot develop - unless someone lend your (debt) or gift (AID) you some capital!
You need to borrow - from your future - and hope you'll have the plan, the discipline & lucky for your future plans to pan out ; and repay the loan.

If you're rich - you already have savings - and you earning at present (say taxes) - are sufficient to meet you needs. Why borrow?
Your future is not any promising - it will be the same trajectory.
You do not borrow then - you use your savings and current earnings.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Developing 101.
If you're poor - you have no savings from your past - and the present is so dire - so you cannot develop - unless someone lend your (debt) or gift (AID) you some capital!
You need to borrow - from your future - and hope you'll have the plan, the discipline & lucky for your future plans to pan out ; and repay the loan.

If you're rich - you already have savings - and you earning at present (say taxes) - are sufficient to meet you needs. Why borrow?
Your future is not any promising - it will be the same trajectory.
You do not borrow then - you use your savings and current earnings.

Haikuwangi hivo boss, unapenda mikopo tu, sema unataka cut ya 10 percent iende kwa mkubwa. otherwise soma chini:

But where the East Asians stand apart is that each of them was able to put at least a third of their revenue into investment. The real miracle here is how they managed to keep their recurrent budget to a maximum of 10 per cent of GDP, out of which they were also heavily investing in education. As economists Mahbub ul Haq and Khadija Haq observed, beneath the East Asian economic miracle lay an education miracle.

That is how you do it, not going with a typical african begging bowl to Cinkus and Wazungus. Have some shame sir.

[RV Pundit]

Kwani akiiba nitakula kwake? Mimi najitafutiea pesa yangu. I am only interested in intellectual debate like that.

Now that article is okay - public sector investment in basic infrastructure (roads, railways, water, electricity) and social (education+health) is critical.

Now the article clearly said - they avoided recurrent expenditure - growing more than 10% - and used it  invest.

It doesnt talk anything about it - debt situation in both countries - and stuff like population growth that eventually hobbled kenya. I believe Kenya education outcomes were okay.

Borrowing to invest in same - I dont see any problem. Borrowing like now to fund recurrent expenditure is what I am totally opposed.

It's why China loans are the best - they are ringfenced for projects - that is capital investments.

Borrowing from World Bank/IMF/Eurobond - and throwing the money into budgetary support pit - where money can be used for anything - is why Africa has not developed all these years - until Chinese arrived.

Bottomline - we need both social and infra investment - where the money will come from - for me is irrelevant - as long as we are not borrowing to pay salaries or buy tissues - or similarly saving money to pay salaries or buy cars.

Haikuwangi hivo boss, unapenda mikopo tu, sema unataka cut ya 10 percent iende kwa mkubwa. otherwise soma chini:

But where the East Asians stand apart is that each of them was able to put at least a third of their revenue into investment. The real miracle here is how they managed to keep their recurrent budget to a maximum of 10 per cent of GDP, out of which they were also heavily investing in education. As economists Mahbub ul Haq and Khadija Haq observed, beneath the East Asian economic miracle lay an education miracle.

That is how you do it, not going with a typical african begging bowl to Cinkus and Wazungus. Have some shame sir

[GeeMail]

Kenya building Hustler economy. Thief leads by example. From 2022 Chief propkandist will be millionaire thief. Everyone steal something until there's nothing to steal.

[RV Pundit]

How is this aimless rant relevant in this thread.

Kenya building Hustler economy. Thief leads by example. From 2022 Chief propkandist will be millionaire thief. Everyone steal something until there's nothing to steal.

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

Kwani akiiba nitakula kwake? Mimi najitafutiea pesa yangu. I am only interested in intellectual debate like that.

Now that article is okay - public sector investment in basic infrastructure (roads, railways, water, electricity) and social (education+health) is critical.

Now the article clearly said - they avoided recurrent expenditure - growing more than 10% - and used it  invest.

It doesnt talk anything about it - debt situation in both countries - and stuff like population growth that eventually hobbled kenya. I believe Kenya education outcomes were okay.

Borrowing to invest in same - I dont see any problem. Borrowing like now to fund recurrent expenditure is what I am totally opposed.

It's why China loans are the best - they are ringfenced for projects - that is capital investments.

Borrowing from World Bank/IMF/Eurobond - and throwing the money into budgetary support pit - where money can be used for anything - is why Africa has not developed all these years - until Chinese arrived.

Bottomline - we need both social and infra investment - where the money will come from - for me is irrelevant - as long as we are not borrowing to pay salaries or buy tissues - or similarly saving money to pay salaries or buy cars.

Bullshit. One can build useless projects like SGR. Also Chinese force taxpayers to pay through the nose for the kickbacks they give corrupt political elites, saddle us with useless white elephants, take away local jobs and snare us with unpayable debts.

The article says those public sector investments in roads water and education come from your budgets not mikopo, fahamu.

What do you mean debt situation in both countries?

where the money will come from - for me is irrelevant

Absolutely wrong. Without going into the utility of the infrastructure and the political economy calculations ( think of Mt Kenya roads the current fool is building) You borrow from international markets there we have to pay in foreign currency local currency depreciates every year yet get ballooning debt situation. How did we end up in the debt distress situation we are in where we can't even pay interest let alone principal?

If it comes from domestic market it is slightly better, but if too much it crowds out private sector lending - not good.

We should have balanced budgets, period.

No deficits.

[RV Pundit]

You're opening a lot of fronts.
1) Let us agree - investment in basic infrastructure (roads, water, basic railway,etc) + in people/humans (education+health) is great.
2) Investing in secondary infrastructure - airport like Isiolo or Eldoret - Lamu port or LAPSET- or say light rail - with doubtful rate of returns - is not good.
3) Reducing recurrent expenditure - by reducing public sector leeches like KQ and 200 losses making SOES - and even reducing gov employees is great  - reduced recurrent expenditure - increase budget for capital invest in #1
4) Investing from savings is great - be it from  life insurance, pension, private savings lent to gov - as domestic debt - is great.

5) Leveraging esp Low Interest Low Maturity loans LIke CHINA/IMF/WB is great - borrowing commercial loans from Eurobond and say CITIBANK is very dangerous.

So in summary Lets agree
1) Let us continue to invest in basic infra
2) Let us continue to do social investment in HCI - education and HEALTH (TODAY NHIF - universal health insurance)
3) Let us avoid white elephants in secondary infrastructure - fancy airport like Isiolo or Lamu now.
4) Let us reduce public sector that are eating budget - recurrent - by selling 200 SOES- KQs, Mumias, name them - getting bailouts.
5) Let us cut corruption in the public sector - so we can get a lot more infra built.
6) Let us borrow from China/WB/AFDB - low interest long maturity loans...concessionary some zero interest is as good as savings.
7) Let us avoid commercial foreign loans with high interest and short maturity like EuroBond

Kwani akiiba nitakula kwake? Mimi najitafutiea pesa yangu. I am only interested in intellectual debate like that.

Now that article is okay - public sector investment in basic infrastructure (roads, railways, water, electricity) and social (education+health) is critical.

Now the article clearly said - they avoided recurrent expenditure - growing more than 10% - and used it  invest.

It doesnt talk anything about it - debt situation in both countries - and stuff like population growth that eventually hobbled kenya. I believe Kenya education outcomes were okay.

Borrowing to invest in same - I dont see any problem. Borrowing like now to fund recurrent expenditure is what I am totally opposed.

It's why China loans are the best - they are ringfenced for projects - that is capital investments.

Borrowing from World Bank/IMF/Eurobond - and throwing the money into budgetary support pit - where money can be used for anything - is why Africa has not developed all these years - until Chinese arrived.

Bottomline - we need both social and infra investment - where the money will come from - for me is irrelevant - as long as we are not borrowing to pay salaries or buy tissues - or similarly saving money to pay salaries or buy cars.

Bullshit. One can build useless projects like SGR. Also Chinese force taxpayers to pay through the nose for the kickbacks they give corrupt political elites, saddle us with useless white elephants, take away local jobs and snare us with unpayable debts.

The article says those public sector investments in roads water and education come from your budgets not mikopo, fahamu.

What do you mean debt situation in both countries?

where the money will come from - for me is irrelevant

Absolutely wrong. Without going into the utility of the infrastructure and the political economy calculations ( think of Mt Kenya roads the current fool is building) You borrow from international markets there we have to pay in foreign currency local currency depreciates every year yet get ballooning debt situation. How did we end up in the debt distress situation we are in where we can't even pay interest let alone principal?

If it comes from domestic market it is slightly better, but if too much it crowds out private sector lending - not good.

We should have balanced budgets, period.

No deficits.

[GeeMail]

How is this aimless rant relevant in this thread.

Kenya building Hustler economy. Thief leads by example. From 2022 Chief propkandist will be millionaire thief. Everyone steal something until there's nothing to steal.

Bottoms up economy. KCB.

[RV Pundit]

You dont make sense.

Bottoms up economy. KCB.

[RV Pundit]

The NHIF Bill, 2021, seeks to provide that the national and county governments be liable contributors for all public and state officers under a National Health Scheme.

Private employers would also be required to top up their workers' contributions to ensure the total amount is not less than Sh500 in efforts to raise more cash.

The proposed law currently before the Senate also seeks to stage mandatory registration for persons who have attained 18 years.

[RV Pundit]

Any update on this?

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

You're opening a lot of fronts.
1) Let us agree - investment in basic infrastructure (roads, water, basic railway,etc) + in people/humans (education+health) is great.

Partially, if financed by budgets yes, if these are financed by debt then nope.

2) Investing in secondary infrastructure - airport like Isiolo or Eldoret - Lamu port or LAPSET- or say light rail - with doubtful rate of returns - is not good.

You are getting it.

3) Reducing recurrent expenditure - by reducing public sector leeches like KQ and 200 losses making SOES - and even reducing gov employees is great  - reduced recurrent expenditure - increase budget for capital invest in #1
4) Investing from savings is great - be it from  life insurance, pension, private savings lent to gov - as domestic debt - is great.

Partially, you can have too much domestic borrowing by the public sector which crowds out the private. You need the government to run a tight fiscal ship ALWAYS. That is the crucial lesson from East Asia. Fiscal discipline or nothing works.

5) Leveraging esp Low Interest Low Maturity loans LIke CHINA/IMF/WB is great - borrowing commercial loans from Eurobond and say CITIBANK is very dangerous.

So great!

Kenya seeks IMF aid to repay China loans

^^ So much for low maturity low interest Chinese loans.

You are a debt junkie boss

[RV Pundit]

Chinese loans are 50 percent concessionary - 50 percent commercial - at least SGR part. China has totally transformed Kenya. They deserve every penny.

Some of us cried for years for China to come to kenya as we saw the miracles they did to Ethiopia.

When eventually Kibaki listen and changed his focus to China - Kenya infrastructure totally transformed - kenya real estate totally transformed - and kenya growth the last 15yrs can be ATTRIBUTED TO CHINA.

For all that investment - we deserve to repay our loans - and nearly all China loans are invested in basic infrastructure that have transformed the country.

The first Chinese involvement in kenya I remember was Naivasha-Nakuru-Nairobi rehabilitation - in 2006- that road still has no pothole to date.

And yet by 2008 - every white or pink man - was warning kenya about China and the quality of their products - bla bla sour grapes - yet they were taking HUGE CHINESE LOANS themselves.

Nobody has taken china debt as United States has - they owe China 2 trillion dollars - last I checked.

Africa total debt from China is 50B dollars....US has taken almost 40 times more !!! But will accuse Africa countries of taking China loans.

The EU also has taken nearly 1-2B TRILLION of China loans...including Britain.

^^ So much for low maturity low interest Chinese loans.

You are a debt junkie boss

[hk]

The NHIF Bill, 2021, seeks to provide that the national and county governments be liable contributors for all public and state officers under a National Health Scheme.

Private employers would also be required to top up their workers' contributions to ensure the total amount is not less than Sh500 in efforts to raise more cash.

The proposed law currently before the Senate also seeks to stage mandatory registration for persons who have attained 18 years.

What happened to makueni universal health care? Are the residents any better than other counties? Another statutory obligation for private sector. This is why informal economy is growing , just like the gig economy in the west. Since majority of kenyans are in informal sector, how'll the mandate be enforced?
Maybe a better option would  be to create something like HMO per county then have citizens buy HMO insurance cover that'd be necessary to access healthcare from the HMO. Instead of county government running the hospitals, HMO would run them (humble opinion). The HMO would be responsible of running hospitals, hiring, buying meds and evening outsourcing healthcare (specialist) to private doctors. 

[RV Pundit]

If we converted the health budget into national health insurance...give all that money to NHIF...with gov paying for this..it can be done.
Ghana has done this...but they fund it together with member contribution...by 2-4 percent levy on VAT for NHS.

But let us agree like Free Education - HealthCare is a must social investment.

Everyone deserve an health insurance.

For me I would divest from corrupt public hospital - given them to be run by NHIF/MTCs/Universities - and even private sector.

As long as everyone will have health insurance - nobody will need  a public hospital. Private sector will move in and build them.

What happened to makueni universal health care? Are the residents any better than other counties? Another statutory obligation for private sector. This is why informal economy is growing , just like the gig economy in the west. Since majority of kenyans are in informal sector, how'll the mandate be enforced?
Maybe a better option would  be to create something like HMO per county then have citizens buy HMO insurance cover that'd be necessary to access healthcare from the HMO. Instead of county government running the hospitals, HMO would run them (humble opinion). The HMO would be responsible of running hospitals, hiring, buying meds and evening outsourcing healthcare (specialist) to private doctors.