Author Topic: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player  (Read 8394 times)

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2021, 01:01:23 PM »
You obsess with Uhuru and Kiunjuri.

Why non-Gema don't want Ruto
1) Greedy Ruto refuses to share power by opposing BBI
2) Ruto wants to extend Kikuyu-Kalenjin 60yr dictatorship to 100yrs
3) Ruto is super-tribal and his nusu mkate was 90% kalenjin. Even within Kalenjin Nandis have beef with him

Raila just need Uhuru & machinery for BBI and to ensure level field.

What is Mt Kenya nation's anger against Uhuru?
1) Bringing in the vanquished/hated Raila and taking down the Ruto (the Jubilee hero) for illogical reasons.
2) Mismanaging the economy, being generally aloof, unreachable, and unresponsive to the needs of the people. Replacing Big4 with BBI. Behaving like he owns Mt Kenya the same way Raila owns Luos.
3) Threatening the life and properties and long-term stability of more than a million Kikuyus in RV by opening a war front there.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2021, 01:10:24 PM »
Noway I don't doubt your prowess - more about your courage to confidently air your views. Can you coherently decipher Mt Kenya politics for poor Robina? It is obvious Ruto has the upper hand - but the runningmate scramble looks headed to the wire. Is it Kiunjuri, Kuria, Karua, Muturi? Muturi is undergoing some ritual to be the new kingpin? Is Muturi Tangatanga, Kieleweke or his own thing? Prof Kagwanja seems to be conducting the rituals.

Njuri dont be hard on Pundit, atleast with him you can bring him back on track . Robina is a different story .She is a Proffesor who is ready to die for her believes here being Uhuru is handing over Mt Kenya to Raila through PK.
I personally fear Robina will be on a suicide watch come 2022. Therr is need to be elaborate with her .
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2021, 01:22:18 PM »
You're incorrigible. Even if you rig Koome - for her own self interest and self preservation - she will kill BBI - because 12 months from now - a new president will be inside statehouse - and will use Ombudsman to make her life impossible.

As for technicalities.

I believe 5 bench high court constitutional court can only be overturned by either 5 or more of the appellate court.

1 high court judge - normally takes 3 COA

3 high court bench ruling - takes 3-5 COA bench.

When it get to supreme court - it's all the 9 judges - to overturn normally 3, 5, 7 bench of COA>


Uhuru just rigged in Koome - Ngatia told us Kibicho called few JSC crew to reduce his scores. She will carry Uhuru bag. How many judges are needed to overturn high court? 3 or 5? Koome just needs 3 BBI-amenable judges on the panel.

CJ is powerful due to power to select the panel. You don't need half of all judges just half of panel.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2021, 01:27:54 PM »
Which NON-GEMA are you talking about that Raila has?
On his own - Ruto beat Raila 10-NIL in non-gema.
But maybe you're confusing NON-GEMA like Kambasa and some luhyas - who supported Raila via proxy!

Don't bank on MaDVD, Kalonzo and Weta supporting Raila EVER AGAIN. It aint happening. They are not that stupid.

Otherwise if we go for NON-GEMA outside the BIG 5 (without candidates) - Ruto has an edge.

Start from MATUSA-SOMALI-BORANA - pastoralist - Ruto has big edge here - will almost win 90% of the vote here.
Next stop would be Coast - now I believe it's 50-50 - When uhuru was running it was 30-70 - because coast just hate Kenyatta name for land injustices.
Next stop would be Gusii - we saw it 50-50 - and with Matiangi - 30-30-30.

Therefore which NON-GEMA are you talking about.

Kambas will follow Kalonzo. Maragoli and Kakamega will follow MaDVD - with both Raila and Ruto sharing crumbs. Bungoma are in Ford-K and UDA (Raila is NILL).

Yes maybe Busia - Raila has an edge. The same way Ruto has an edge in Kuria.

You obsess with Uhuru and Kiunjuri.

Why non-Gema don't want Ruto
1) Greedy Ruto refuses to share power by opposing BBI
2) Ruto wants to extend Kikuyu-Kalenjin 60yr dictatorship to 100yrs
3) Ruto is super-tribal and his nusu mkate was 90% kalenjin. Even within Kalenjin Nandis have beef with him

Raila just need Uhuru & machinery for BBI and to ensure level field.

What is Mt Kenya nation's anger against Uhuru?
1) Bringing in the vanquished/hated Raila and taking down the Ruto (the Jubilee hero) for illogical reasons.
2) Mismanaging the economy, being generally aloof, unreachable, and unresponsive to the needs of the people. Replacing Big4 with BBI. Behaving like he owns Mt Kenya the same way Raila owns Luos.
3) Threatening the life and properties and long-term stability of more than a million Kikuyus in RV by opening a war front there.

Offline Njuri Ncheke

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2021, 01:30:32 PM »
I doubt Koome would want to annoy the masses. She still has general  election coming and wont want to go there as damaged goods. I think Gatheca put Koome there for the mbig one next year,he wouldn't waste his energy on mbimbi i.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2021, 01:31:18 PM »
Precisely.
I doubt Koome would want to annoy the masses. She still hasnna  election coming and wont want to go there as damaged goods. I think Gatheca put Koome there for the mbig one next year,he wouldn't waste his energy on mbimbi i

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2021, 01:37:36 PM »
In which case Koome merely needs 4 BBI-amenable judges to overturn high court. I am not convinced ombudsman is such scary monster - just bad taste, bad optics. The office reports to JSC and parliament - which is just transparency.

We should see soon - they didn't rig in Koome because she is such pretty Meru. It about control of judiciary.

You're incorrigible. Even if you rig Koome - for her own self interest and self preservation - she will kill BBI - because 12 months from now - a new president will be inside statehouse - and will use Ombudsman to make her life impossible.

As for technicalities.

I believe 5 bench high court constitutional court can only be overturned by either 5 or more of the appellate court.

1 high court judge - normally takes 3 COA

3 high court bench ruling - takes 3-5 COA bench.

When it get to supreme court - it's all the 9 judges - to overturn normally 3, 5, 7 bench of COA>
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2021, 01:42:27 PM »
The judiciary as an institution do not want ombudman. Ombusdman is not scary - it real - it's constitutional - it's equal to JSC. Putting something in constitution is big deal. Also they are giving JSC powers to suspend judges.

If you did not get one high court judge - you think you can bribe or intimidate even more senior judges at COA and SCORK - to kill their own institution.

Koome will disappoint you - in fact - I doubt she picks the bench at COA - it's normally the president of the court of appeal - it just at high court - that CJ normally picks a bench.

In which case Koome merely needs 4 BBI-amenable judges to overturn high court. I am not convinced ombudsman is such scary monster - just bad taste, bad optics. The office reports to JSC and parliament - which is just transparency.

We should see soon - they didn't rig in Koome because she is such pretty Meru. It about control of judiciary.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2021, 01:45:20 PM »
Actually KOOME has zero role in COA. I can't recall when a CJ has picked a COA bench.



So it either the acting president (Lady justice Karanja) or the presiding judge (randomly assigned by the system) - who will constitute a 5-7 bench judge upon application


Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2021, 01:50:08 PM »
NON-GEMA I mean outside Luo, Gema and Kalenjin. URP is basically Kalenjin - don't kid yourself - Boranas are <1%. MATUSA are not all URP - maybe 70%.  Even 2017 they didn't all go Jubilee. Gusii if Matiang'i sits it out are 70% Raila. It Uhuru who brought them to Jubilee in 2017 not Ruto.

Kalonzos, Mdvds - Raila needs BBI to string them - it about their own interest not love for Raila. Otherwise Ruto will run circles around poor old baba. Anyway let see what CoA does tomorrow - if BBI is dead Raila might tosha kati-kati crew. Don't get too excited before BBI funeral.

Which NON-GEMA are you talking about that Raila has?
On his own - Ruto beat Raila 10-NIL in non-gema.
But maybe you're confusing NON-GEMA like Kambasa and some luhyas - who supported Raila via proxy!

Don't bank on MaDVD, Kalonzo and Weta supporting Raila EVER AGAIN. It aint happening. They are not that stupid.

Otherwise if we go for NON-GEMA outside the BIG 5 (without candidates) - Ruto has an edge.

Start from MATUSA-SOMALI-BORANA - pastoralist - Ruto has big edge here - will almost win 90% of the vote here.
Next stop would be Coast - now I believe it's 50-50 - When uhuru was running it was 30-70 - because coast just hate Kenyatta name for land injustices.
Next stop would be Gusii - we saw it 50-50 - and with Matiangi - 30-30-30.

Therefore which NON-GEMA are you talking about.

Kambas will follow Kalonzo. Maragoli and Kakamega will follow MaDVD - with both Raila and Ruto sharing crumbs. Bungoma are in Ford-K and UDA (Raila is NILL).

Yes maybe Busia - Raila has an edge. The same way Ruto has an edge in Kuria.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2021, 01:59:32 PM »
So has them or he need BBI to get them :). Remove the  BIG 5 Until April 2022 - when the deadline for filling coalition will be due. Don't bank of any of BIG 5.

Non-GEMA outside BIG 5 - 30% or so remaining - Ruto has an edge.

As for Gusii - nothing could be further from the truth.
Matiangi has eaten Ruto lunch - but now with his unceremonious exit post-Bonchari - I expect Jubilee Gusii to move to Ruto.
Jubilee Gusii beat ODM like a drum.But let work with 50-50.

BBI will only be resuscitated in parliament - and they need to start soon :)

NON-GEMA I mean outside Luo, Gema and Kalenjin. URP is basically Kalenjin - don't kid yourself - Boranas are <1%. MATUSA are not all URP - maybe 70%.  Even 2017 they didn't all go Jubilee. Gusii if Matiang'i sits it out are 70% Raila. It Uhuru who brought them to Jubilee in 2017 not Ruto.

Kalonzos, Mdvds - Raila needs BBI to string them - it about their own interest not love for Raila. Otherwise Ruto will run circles around poor old baba. Anyway let see what CoA does tomorrow - if BBI is dead Raila might tosha kati-kati crew. Don't get too excited before BBI funeral.


Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2021, 02:15:25 PM »
Raila has NASA plus PK lined up for 5 BBI posts. Without hybrid he is dead. One Kenya was formed to kill UDA in Kamba & Luhya which it did very well.

Gusii - 70% Raila. 2017 Uhuru-Raila split 50-50 thanks to Matiang'i not Ruto. Ruto had no Gusii lunch to be eaten. All Ongwaes, Ongeris, O'Mogenis, Ong'eras are ODM. Jubilee mere Nyamira women rep. Don't forget the old Gusii beef with Kipsigis. I see Ruto is trying to impeach Matiang'i now so no love lost. But hustler nation big rallies amounted to little as in most non-Gema.

Matusa-NFD URP areas Ruto maybe 70%.

Coast depends on Mvurya and Kingi - they lean BBI so far - obviously want to be MP and CS. Joho is Raila diehard. Ruto on his own with Jumwa or Mwashetani is nothing.

So has them or he need BBI to get them :). Remove the  BIG 5 Until April 2022 - when the deadline for filling coalition will be due. Don't bank of any of BIG 5.

Non-GEMA outside BIG 5 - 30% or so remaining - Ruto has an edge.

As for Gusii - nothing could be further from the truth.
Matiangi has eaten Ruto lunch - but now with his unceremonious exit post-Bonchari - I expect Jubilee Gusii to move to Ruto.
Jubilee Gusii beat ODM like a drum.But let work with 50-50.

BBI will only be resuscitated in parliament - and they need to start soon :)

NON-GEMA I mean outside Luo, Gema and Kalenjin. URP is basically Kalenjin - don't kid yourself - Boranas are <1%. MATUSA are not all URP - maybe 70%.  Even 2017 they didn't all go Jubilee. Gusii if Matiang'i sits it out are 70% Raila. It Uhuru who brought them to Jubilee in 2017 not Ruto.

Kalonzos, Mdvds - Raila needs BBI to string them - it about their own interest not love for Raila. Otherwise Ruto will run circles around poor old baba. Anyway let see what CoA does tomorrow - if BBI is dead Raila might tosha kati-kati crew. Don't get too excited before BBI funeral.

♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2021, 02:17:48 PM »
No hybrid no BBI.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2021, 06:10:55 AM »
Days later established lawyers discuss the argument we had .
Listen from minute 19. Do listen from an objective perpective ,si vita .


There are about 20 orders. If COA stays all the orders - then BBI reggae continues as if nothing happened. Parliament and Senate will present BBI to Uhuru for assent. Uhuru will give the bill IEBC - who will then proceed to the referendum - in 90 days or so.

The problem is the referendum is very costly - not only for IEBC - but for those For and Opposing - and with the heavy clouds (actually the hailstorm) from high court - NO COA will okay that. It would be reckless throwing of 40B or more down the drain if they later uphold high court ruling.

There has to be very good reason to stay those orders. BBI crew have to demonstrate the prejudice or injustice they will suffer irreparably - that they cannot wait for a few months for COA to deliberate on this.

For now - Uhuru should simply ask Kuhara to focus on saving him - from being indicted - otherwise the rest are lost causes.

COA  can stay order #10 - if Uhuru pleads...for it's a serious indictment and he deserves the appeal process.

10. A declaration is hereby made that Mr Uhuru Kenyatta has contravened the chapter six of the Constitution and specifically, article 3(1)(a) (1) while initiating and promoting a constitution change process contrary to provisions of the Constitution on amendment of the Constitution.

Pundit , wont do a Tom and Jerry with you like Robina, wait and you will see what I mean.
Biggest mistake Pro BBI made was not challenging the constituion of the High court bench in Dec 2020. You can see the games the activist are already playing.

A question to you , if COA stay the orders  will we have the refrendumn ?

I thought you had some legal knowledge all this time. To stay orders simply mean to suspend their implementation. Restraining orders are part of the orders a court issues - and all can be stayed - if their is good reason to do so.

If orders are stayed - then it mean BBI continues - with understanding that if appeal fails - then orders will continue.

I don't see any good justification why any court would allow BBI to proceed - and spend more public money including in a referendum - when there is already good reason such referendum will be null and void.

Unless Raila and Uhuru will give 30B - of their personal money - plus already spent - to be put in some escrow account.

Uhuru can claim that BBI is very urgent for 2022 - but they are already running away from BBI being a gov project :) - so it will be hard for Junet Mohamed as a civilian to justify the urgency of BBI and the potential public expenditure of 30B going down the drain in a useless referendum.

What people are not saying is that staying orders are inconsequential in comparison to to restraining orders. Mtajua hamjui.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2021, 07:00:02 AM »
I listened to the video and nothing support your ignorant restraining order bullcrap.Stay order on all the 2O orders is almost impossible..leave alone just order being stayed because they cannot even justify how urgent this is and who will pick the taps..besides don't expect exparte stay orders..this will go to proper hearing of all the sides..gov versus 30 lawyers from 8 petitions.Its hopeless for kuhara.End of day no judge like BBI because they never consulted judiciary before their nonsense about ombudsman and JSC...dead as dodo.Only a fool like Raila thinks it has any remote chance.

Offline Kadudu

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2021, 11:47:30 AM »
Since when was the CJ position subject to popular vote? The Judicary unlike the political class is not there to please the public.

I doubt Koome would want to annoy the masses. She still has general  election coming and wont want to go there as damaged goods. I think Gatheca put Koome there for the mbig one next year,he wouldn't waste his energy on mbimbi i.

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2021, 12:04:34 PM »
Without the public support - and with hostile executive - and parliament - I don't know how she would survive. The public support is key - for all the arms of thegov - or at least the goodwill.

Since when was the CJ position subject to popular vote? The Judicary unlike the political class is not there to please the public.

Offline GeeMail

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2021, 10:39:11 PM »
Public support, my foot! EVeryone is saying she was rigged in but she stays in office. Public support once CJ is sworn in means squat. If public support is anything then the thief cannot run for public office.
Celebratory violence: 2017 crime invented to justify killings to prevent Raila from becoming PORK. http://www.nipate.com/download/file.php?id=4244

Offline RV Pundit

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2021, 11:03:36 PM »
Without public support - life becomes very difficult- ask dictators how difficult to rule it is. For a CJ despite the security of tenure - you'll be having headache every time as people alleges biasness and all sort of accusations. For koome to survive 8yrs - he has to think long term - otherwise you can appease Uhuru now - and lose the next 7yrs - and at that stage of her career - she is looking to make a mark. And again the powers of a CJ are so limited - it almost foolhardy to soil it.

So Koome should spend the next 1yr running away from lameduck and try to win back public support...because she is starting with obvious setback that she is CJ - not because of her illustrious career as reformist and human rights lawyer - but GEMA apogee.  Such a shame because she clearly deserve to be a CJ - so did Ngatia and Ouko.

Public support, my foot! EVeryone is saying she was rigged in but she stays in office. Public support once CJ is sworn in means squat. If public support is anything then the thief cannot run for public office.

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: Moses Kuria could emerge a strong player
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2021, 07:27:38 AM »

Certainly you didnt watch. Very unfortunate for a person who is following the case closely. Confirms your weakness of know it all.
For your benefit will write verbatim the discussion .word to word.

TOM OJIENDA- The challenge that Justice Musinga has is that alot of certificates and applications have been pending in the court of appeal for a while now without a substantive president since Judge Ouko took leave to seek a position in the supreme court . Alot of files and applications have been pending including applications that have recently been filed.His task would be to enpanel judges to hear some of these matters , I think today Raila Odinga filed another application. I must say This .This is A very delicate time, if the court of appeal grants a stay order after the parties meets the three leaves that are requored to grant a stay mandatory extreme urgency public importance , if they meet  all those requirements them the referendum process, christened as reggae  will continue , if the court declines to grant the stay even IEBC will be incapable of proceeding with ots work including undertaking the referendumn that is in the mouth or lip of every proponent of BBI, so we have those real challenges and I agree with Akisa that this is a delicate time and the judges who will be selected or who will in the panel to hear these cases have a task at hand .Whatever decision they make .
For the Chief Justice gladly she does not empanel the jidges at the court pf appeal this is a matter that would as well end up in the Supreme Court.She would have to preside over .Im sure either way or whatever way it goes in the court of appeal this is litigation that will end up in Supreme Court. And Im sure the Supreme Court is waiting to settle this political question at a very crucial political moment because remember this impacts future of this country whichever way this goes will impact on how the election is conducted and the outcome of that election .It impacts on the political class and on the people of Kenya ultimately.

KIBE MUINGAI: At the stage in Court Of Appeal , If the stay is granted for example looking at it from a position of law it would be Controversial  kind of stay , remembering that the main order that was given by the high court is actually a negative order , a Permanent Injuction against IEBC from conducting the referendumn and ofcourse another order of declaration saying that the BBI process is Null and Void and therefore these categories of orders ordinarily are dealt with by either SETTING ASIDE or AFFIRMING them. Now the choice of a stay or application of a stay isgoing to be that if it is granted from a purely technical point of view it is going to be somehow controversial and more importantly without hearing the appeal BBI or Reggae as Proffessor Ojienda says were to continue based on such an order of stay , then for all practical purposes  the application for stay would have resolved the appeal itself .Therefore this is why Im saying these BIG decisions if they are made on account  of stay application then  its going the way of those people talking about Judicialization of Politics and Politicization of Judiciary .Those arguments will even be more live because you cannot win either way.
Personally I was of the view that these kind of situation if a strategy had been taken like lets hear this appeal lets have a Judgement substantively deciding whether the 5 judges were right or wrong . So that we do not start on a note that is highly politicized particularly for the new Chief Justice .But then again this is for the eminent lawyers who have been appointed by the various parties to argue it.


I listened to the video and nothing support your ignorant restraining order bullcrap.Stay order on all the 2O orders is almost impossible..leave alone just order being stayed because they cannot even justify how urgent this is and who will pick the taps..besides don't expect exparte stay orders..this will go to proper hearing of all the sides..gov versus 30 lawyers from 8 petitions.Its hopeless for kuhara.End of day no judge like BBI because they never consulted judiciary before their nonsense about ombudsman and JSC...dead as dodo.Only a fool like Raila thinks it has any remote chance.