35 million and he is still on the job!!!

[RV Pundit]

There is a popular saying. A poor man has no morals. That is whe re we find ourselves in. Those few lucky ones of us can afford to be moral or ethical but the majority of kenyans have to be literally stopped from stealing or they would steal -consequences be damned. For me morality...wrong or right..is more about consequences of our actions. There is a lot of reward for leading a good honest ethical and moral life...at least in the long term. That is why most folks try to keep on that lane..I included. Crime including corruption may pays in the short term but more often in the long run..you get caught. Of course greed and temptation to steal or cut corners I think is an enduring dillemma people face through their lives.

That is theory. Let get back to the problem. We have a crime here of corruption that is has gotten out of hands. Termie & Moonki think good dictator like leadership who is extremely harsh on corruption will work wonders. How we get there? The details seem sketchy..elect good leaders .

I don't think we should wait until we have a benevolent dictator who will work his magic. I think making it harder for one to steal public money or engage in corruption is the way to go. Everytime someone get away ...we need to pause and think about how he managed to get in and steal...and worry later about jailing and recovering those assets. This is especially true where corruption has permeate all sectors including the criminal and correction systems that are suppose to deal with punishing and detering such acts.

So on this case or NYS case....we need to think about what could have been done to avert this. Would CBK having being more serious about money laundering have got NYS...yeah...heck in fact they got them and asked treasury what was going on!  Would M-pesa guys have caught Kyalo long time ago..yeah...but they got him 5yrs late..and now we can fire, arrest and recover monies from Kyalo and his network.

How can we stop crime from happening. Termie say strong measures will be deterrent. I say putting water tight controls all over will make corruption very hard and risky -and make prosecution a walk in the park.

And these are questions all kenyans (not only GoK) are facing. If you ran any business you know employee theft is big! so folks have all these cctv cameras and name them to stop these guys on the track..because once the money is gone; it mostly likely gone.

Pundit
If I understand you correctly, Are you saying that morality does not deter us from making right decisions?
If that is correct, then how come people like the Pope can chose to be so humble while the likes of Trump use any means necessary to reap money off the poor. Who has morals? The Pope or Trump?
I agree with you though that man is inherently corrupt. What Kenya lacks is law enforcement. A regular guy is harassed left and right while the moneyed are left to roam defrauding every person, institution can then get hold of.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

There is a popular saying. A poor man has no morals. That is whe re we find ourselves in. Those few lucky ones of us can afford to be moral or ethical but the majority of kenyans have to be literally stopped from stealing or they would steal -consequences be damned. For me morality...wrong or right..is more about consequences of our actions. There is a lot of reward for leading a good honest ethical and moral life...at least in the long term. That is why most folks try to keep on that lane..I included. Crime including corruption may pays in the short term but more often in the long run..you get caught. Of course greed and temptation to steal or cut corners I think is an enduring dillemma people face through their lives.

That is theory. Let get back to the problem. We have a crime here of corruption that is has gotten out of hands. Termie & Moonki think good dictator like leadership who is extremely harsh on corruption will work wonders. How we get there? The details seem sketchy..elect good leaders .

I don't think we should wait until we have a benevolent dictator who will work his magic. I think making it harder for one to steal public money or engage in corruption is the way to go. Everytime someone get away ...we need to pause and think about how he managed to get in and steal...and worry later about jailing and recovering those assets. This is especially true where corruption has permeate all sectors including the criminal and correction systems that are suppose to deal with punishing and detering such acts.

So on this case or NYS case....we need to think about what could have been done to avert this. Would CBK having being more serious about money laundering have got NYS...yeah...heck in fact they got them and asked treasury what was going on!  Would M-pesa guys have caught Kyalo long time ago..yeah...but they got him 5yrs late..and now we can fire, arrest and recover monies from Kyalo and his network.

How can we stop crime from happening. Termie say strong measures will be deterrent. I say putting water tight controls all over will make corruption very hard and risky -and make prosecution a walk in the park.

And these are questions all kenyans (not only GoK) are facing. If you ran any business you know employee theft is big! so folks have all these cctv cameras and name them to stop these guys on the track..because once the money is gone; it mostly likely gone.

Pundit
If I understand you correctly, Are you saying that morality does not deter us from making right decisions?
If that is correct, then how come people like the Pope can chose to be so humble while the likes of Trump use any means necessary to reap money off the poor. Who has morals? The Pope or Trump?
I agree with you though that man is inherently corrupt. What Kenya lacks is law enforcement. A regular guy is harassed left and right while the moneyed are left to roam defrauding every person, institution can then get hold of.

You keep making this misleading statement that I don't agree with measures to make it harder to engage in the practice.  Or that it is incompatible with punishment.  I see them as both useful.  One makes it a hog to engage.  The other makes it painful once you engage. 

You automate Kyalo out of the loop.  I get my speeding ticket or court date in the mail.  I get that.  Payment department processes my fine and I pay.  OR there might be a smart-alec in(or in collusion with) the department who knows how to make that disappear.  Is there oversight over this alec?  Sure it can be built into the system.  But oversight is in on the deal too.  There is a lot technology can do.  But only so much.

[RV Pundit]

Then we are all good. Every system can be gamed. The idea is to make it harder except for a few determined ones. In kenya we have police dept where corruption is everywhere....so if we make it so a few smart folks...can do this...we will be somewhere.

I cannot think of a better way than technology. It not easy to delete electronic trail.

You keep making this misleading statement that I don't agree with measures to make it harder to engage in the practice.  Or that it is incompatible with punishment.  I see them as both useful.  One makes it a hog to engage.  The other makes it painful once you engage. 

You automate Kyalo out of the loop.  I get my speeding ticket or court date in the mail.  I get that.  Payment department processes my fine and I pay.  OR there might be a smart-alec in(or in collusion with) the department who knows how to make that disappear.  Is there oversight over this alec?  Sure it can be built into the system.  But oversight is in on the deal too.  There is a lot technology can do.  But only so much.

[Georgesoros]

In my opinion, corruption has been instutionalized, and that is where the problem lies. Its a cancer that needs immediate radical treatment. The Kyalos are more dangerous than Waigurus because they make goods n services more expensive. Italy had Mafias in 70s which took 20yrs to get rid of. Same with NYC. With Kenya, there is no urgency yet!!! They talk but...thats teh farthest it goes.

There is a popular saying. A poor man has no morals. That is whe re we find ourselves in. Those few lucky ones of us can afford to be moral or ethical but the majority of kenyans have to be literally stopped from stealing or they would steal -consequences be damned. For me morality...wrong or right..is more about consequences of our actions. There is a lot of reward for leading a good honest ethical and moral life...at least in the long term. That is why most folks try to keep on that lane..I included. Crime including corruption may pays in the short term but more often in the long run..you get caught. Of course greed and temptation to steal or cut corners I think is an enduring dillemma people face through their lives.

That is theory. Let get back to the problem. We have a crime here of corruption that is has gotten out of hands. Termie & Moonki think good dictator like leadership who is extremely harsh on corruption will work wonders. How we get there? The details seem sketchy..elect good leaders .

I don't think we should wait until we have a benevolent dictator who will work his magic. I think making it harder for one to steal public money or engage in corruption is the way to go. Everytime someone get away ...we need to pause and think about how he managed to get in and steal...and worry later about jailing and recovering those assets. This is especially true where corruption has permeate all sectors including the criminal and correction systems that are suppose to deal with punishing and detering such acts.

So on this case or NYS case....we need to think about what could have been done to avert this. Would CBK having being more serious about money laundering have got NYS...yeah...heck in fact they got them and asked treasury what was going on!  Would M-pesa guys have caught Kyalo long time ago..yeah...but they got him 5yrs late..and now we can fire, arrest and recover monies from Kyalo and his network.

How can we stop crime from happening. Termie say strong measures will be deterrent. I say putting water tight controls all over will make corruption very hard and risky -and make prosecution a walk in the park.

And these are questions all kenyans (not only GoK) are facing. If you ran any business you know employee theft is big! so folks have all these cctv cameras and name them to stop these guys on the track..because once the money is gone; it mostly likely gone.

Pundit
If I understand you correctly, Are you saying that morality does not deter us from making right decisions?
If that is correct, then how come people like the Pope can chose to be so humble while the likes of Trump use any means necessary to reap money off the poor. Who has morals? The Pope or Trump?
I agree with you though that man is inherently corrupt. What Kenya lacks is law enforcement. A regular guy is harassed left and right while the moneyed are left to roam defrauding every person, institution can then get hold of.

[RV Pundit]

I also agree with you. Kyalo has a multiplier effect on transport costs. We can build the best rail and roads but for every truck--their owners have to budget say 10k for bribing--so if truck transporting a container was to cost 80k--know 10k is factored--so police corruption is nearly 10% of transport cost! Transport sector is maybe 10% of GDP....so traffic police are costing this country 1% of its GDP every year --in monetary terms that is about 50b kshs.

Goldenberg and Angloleasing have nothing on this.

Then factor all the delays as police stops truck/busess so they can collect their bribes.

The cost for our economy is ENORMOUS.

In my opinion the corruption has been instutionalized, and that is where the problem is. Its a cancer that needs radical treatment. The Kyalos are more dangerous than Waigurus because they make good more expensive. Italy had Mafias in 70s which took 20yrs to get rid of. lSame with NYC. With Kenya, there is no urgency yet!!! They talk but...thats teh farthest it goes.

[MOON Ki]

Pundit:   

Take a look at your signature line:

Daule for Bomet County: Isaac hii pesa si ya mama yako bwana.

That is "discourse" at the highest levels of Kenyan politics.    In other, similarly "badly-off" places, people will at least pretend that they aren't stealing or that they are putting public money to good use or ... But right there is the "standard" Kenyan attitude: it's not your mother's money, so f**k off!

[MOON Ki]

Goldenberg and Angloleasing have nothing on this.

They do.   Here's the explanation: the idea that technology will help us catch the thieves, and is therefore the solution, is fundamentally flawed.   That is so because the identity of the thieves has never been the real problem, and these two major cases show why.   The key element is captured in a single word: impunity, i.e. (standard definition) 

exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action.

As long as people know they can act with impunity, it doesn't matter whether you "catch" them by  computer or with paper and pencil; they will continue in their nefarious ways. And why would they not? 

[RV Pundit]

Did you really understand my last post?

Goldenberg and Angloleasing have nothing on this.

They do.   Here's the explanation: the idea that technology will help us catch the thieves, and is therefore the solution, is fundamentally flawed.   That is so because the identity of the thieves has never been the real problem, and these two major cases show why.   The key element is captured in a single word: impunity, i.e. (standard definition) 

exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action.

As long as people know they can act with impunity, it doesn't matter whether you "catch" them by  computer or with paper and pencil; they will continue in their nefarious ways. And why would they not? 

[Empedocles]

Instead of wasting all our scarce resources on fruitlessly trying to eradicate corruption, we should focus on the root cause of our society believing corruption is the best (only?) path to a comfortable life.

That would make more sense.

[veritas]

Corruption erodes public trust. If your askari was accepting kitu kidogo from strangers to access your water then how can you trust your askari?

In fully fledged Capitalist economies there are fail safe policies and transparency mechanisms via institutions and govt like regulatory bodies eg commissioners, unions etc. given enough resources and govt support at their disposal. They can investigate and impose penalties. An askari in an opulent country requires a security licence and subject to field compliance officers routinely checking their work. If they get caught they can lose their licence and need to pay penalties or even go to jail depending on the nature of their crime. Such things are too overlooked in Kenya because the govt rarely institutionalizes and supports such initiatives. One reason is because since there's so much poverty, some actually want to go to jail to escape poverty.

This is a tricky problem. Kenya's economy can't afford to implement a fully fledged Capitalist ethos with the anti-corruption checks & balances that come with it to make it work. In essence Kenya operates like a welfare State and relies on handouts with a Capitalist front.

[RV Pundit]

Very interesting. I like the part of them requiring a security license.

Corruption erodes public trust. If your askari was accepting kitu kidogo from strangers to access your water then how can you trust your askari?

In fully fledged Capitalist economies there are fail safe policies and transparency mechanisms via institutions and govt like regulatory bodies eg commissioners, unions etc. given enough resources and govt support at their disposal. They can investigate and impose penalties. An askari in an opulent country requires a security licence and subject to field compliance officers routinely checking their work. If they get caught they can lose their licence and need to pay penalties or even go to jail depending on the nature of their crime. Such things are too overlooked in Kenya because the govt rarely institutionalizes and supports such initiatives. One reason is because since there's so much poverty, some actually want to go to jail to escape poverty.

This is a tricky problem. Kenya's economy can't afford to implement a fully fledged Capitalist ethos with the anti-corruption checks & balances that come with it to make it work. In essence Kenya operates like a welfare State and relies on handouts with a Capitalist front.

[Empedocles]

Very interesting. I like the part of them requiring a security license.

Corruption erodes public trust. If your askari was accepting kitu kidogo from strangers to access your water then how can you trust your askari?

In fully fledged Capitalist economies there are fail safe policies and transparency mechanisms via institutions and govt like regulatory bodies eg commissioners, unions etc. given enough resources and govt support at their disposal. They can investigate and impose penalties. An askari in an opulent country requires a security licence and subject to field compliance officers routinely checking their work. If they get caught they can lose their licence and need to pay penalties or even go to jail depending on the nature of their crime. Such things are too overlooked in Kenya because the govt rarely institutionalizes and supports such initiatives. One reason is because since there's so much poverty, some actually want to go to jail to escape poverty.

This is a tricky problem. Kenya's economy can't afford to implement a fully fledged Capitalist ethos with the anti-corruption checks & balances that come with it to make it work. In essence Kenya operates like a welfare State and relies on handouts with a Capitalist front.

Uhuru just signed a new law:

[New private security industry Act raises expenses of hiring guards for consumers

http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/private-security-industry-Act-raises-expenses-of-hiring-guards/-/539546/3228164/-/11ikdr5/-/index.html

So what happens now as the cost for business and households increase?

[RV Pundit]

The private security act is long overdue. This is one of the most vibrant sector now. I think they employ hundrends thousands now.

[Georgesoros]

Do you really believe what you just said?
Will you advocate for a soccer game with no referee?
If you think theres chaos now, wait till you see what happens when such is implemented.

Instead of wasting all our scarce resources on fruitlessly trying to eradicate corruption, we should focus on the root cause of our society believing corruption is the best (only?) path to a comfortable life.

That would make more sense.

[Empedocles]

Do you really believe what you just said?
Will you advocate for a soccer game with no referee?
If you think theres chaos now, wait till you see what happens when such is implemented.

Using your soccer game analogy, let me put it this way: the pitch is bumpy and strewn with boulders. Players keep falling down while trying to play soccer. So what would you do: devise systems to keep them from falling down or fix the bloody pitch?

The root cause is what has to be sorted out, not the symptoms.

And yes, I do believe what I said. Over 30 years of fruitlessly "fighting" corruption with ever more and more resources being needlessly wasted (i.e. being diverted from the economy) should show us how silly it has been.

[veritas]

Get back up. Never give up.

Nations were born out of blood, sweat and tears on the backs of those toiling under the banner of humanity and integrous ideals.

Corruption is a choice and a means to an end for cowards.

Get back out on that bloody field Empedocles.

[RV Pundit]

Here is the real story of cops making transport slow and expensive...and this why we need SGR...
http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/lifestyle/Mombasa-to-Kigali-long-distance-truck-drivers-/-/1214/3232800/-/15rf82v/-/index.html

[Georgesoros]

The saddest thing is that this is institutionalized, can't do anything about it. accept it as part of business.

Here is the real story of cops making transport slow and expensive...and this why we need SGR...
http://www.nation.co.ke/lifestyle/lifestyle/Mombasa-to-Kigali-long-distance-truck-drivers-/-/1214/3232800/-/15rf82v/-/index.html

[Georgesoros]

I am in the wrong profession. Absolutely, am convinced.
When a regular police officer makes 100milliiom it makes me think....
Sad thing is he gets to keep it even though it illegit money.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Traffic-officer-transacted-over-Sh100m-in-five-years/-/1056/3220766/-/139yx08/-/index.html