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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 27, 2020, 02:40:18 PM

Title: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: RV Pundit on July 27, 2020, 02:40:18 PM
The marginalized non-gema that worship him like coast throw under the bus
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/nairobi/article/2001380269/raila-breaks-silence-on-revenue-share-stalemate
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 02:52:00 PM
Who put the old man under a spell? Maybe it is senility setting in. GEMA were here in the minority. It would have turned out to the famous 41 Vs 1 fight.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: RV Pundit on July 27, 2020, 03:00:02 PM
Supporters like you (non-luos) who will support Raila no matter what - you're enslaved like Luos by Raila - that is why Raila can take any direction anytime anyhow.

Now let see the BBI supporting Mandera - :) - they just lost 2B kshs annually - for supporting BBI.

People need to know their interests. Look at coast - they have been abused, misused and name - and they still support ODM. When positions are shared - ODM doesn't even think about them :)

It's like they way Kalonzo is abused.

Who put the old man under a spell? Maybe it is senility setting in. GEMA were here in the minority. It would have turned out to the famous 41 Vs 1 fight.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 03:27:01 PM
Who put the old man under a spell? Maybe it is senility setting in. GEMA were here in the minority. It would have turned out to the famous 41 Vs 1 fight.

You seem not to understand Railas ultimate goal. Go back to History
Raila has always been for an Executive Prime Minister he failed miserably in 2005 , he was outwitted in 2010 by the KKK , he tried again in 2015 and failed through OKOA Kenya , when he started the Resist movement with Miguna , his end game was for a Referendum. He seems to think he is so near but yet far . He most probably know his time is up but he wants to "correct "  a mistake he did in 2010 and Uhuru gave him a golden chance with the handshake  . He will do anything in hopes they create a PM post , You can see he sold off the Coast  at least for North Eastern he can say they voted for Jubilee in 2013 and  2017 elections .
Now lets wait and see how it will go tomorrow
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 03:30:29 PM
Supporters like you (non-luos) who will support Raila no matter what - you're enslaved like Luos by Raila - that is why Raila can take any direction anytime anyhow.

Now let see the BBI supporting Mandera - :) - they just lost 2B kshs annually - for supporting BBI.

People need to know their interests. Look at coast - they have been abused, misused and name - and they still support ODM. When positions are shared - ODM doesn't even think about them :)

It's like they way Kalonzo is abused.

Who put the old man under a spell? Maybe it is senility setting in. GEMA were here in the minority. It would have turned out to the famous 41 Vs 1 fight.

The coast in 2022 might give a suprise -just like North Eastern did in 2013 .and Kissi Nyanza did in 2017 . Wait and you will see.
Just like Kadudu is motivated by anti GEMA feelings majority in Coast are and if there wont be a Mt Kenya candidate then either the votes will be split between Ruto and Raila or you will see voter apathy
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 03:42:21 PM
Unlike you I can live with any ethnic group as president as I have lived. I am for a fair and just election like the last we we had in 2002. Nothing like anti GEMA, just pro Kenya.

The coast in 2022 might give a suprise -just like North Eastern did in 2013 .and Kissi Nyanza did in 2017 . Wait and you will see.
Just like Kadudu is motivated by anti GEMA feelings majority in Coast are and if there wont be a Mt Kenya candidate then either the votes will be split between Ruto and Raila or you will see voter empathy
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Unlike you I can live with any ethnic group as president as I have lived. I am for a fair and just election like the last we we had in 2002. Nothing like anti GEMA, just pro Kenya.

The coast in 2022 might give a suprise -just like North Eastern did in 2013 .and Kissi Nyanza did in 2017 . Wait and you will see.
Just like Kadudu is motivated by anti GEMA feelings majority in Coast are and if there wont be a Mt Kenya candidate then either the votes will be split between Ruto and Raila or you will see voter empathy

Well your posts talk differently a sample

Who put the old man under a spell? Maybe it is senility setting in. GEMA were here in the minority. It would have turned out to the famous 41 Vs 1 fight.

I think the Mt Kenya leaders consider Nairobi to be theirs forgetting it is cosmopolitan.
Also this issue has been discussed several times. One cannot only use population as the benchmark for distributing resources. The size of the area, development record, poverty index etc play a big role. Mt Kenya leaders are just being selfish and seeing the end of their heydays in sight are out to try and grab as much levy for the future as possible.
Also the Mt kenya folk is the most spread out across the country. Even giving out cash to NFD benefits a kikuyu more than a Kisii. Guys should stop being myopic and think beyond their noses.



Kikuyus are the last people to cause civil unrest. Where will the mama mbogas get their customers? Traders can hardly go on strike.
The same system that was used to rig the 2013 and 2017 elections is still intact. The question is who will control the servers. Your guess is as good as mine.

We wont allow it to go there,the rigging system will be fought before kura,we are not  naive like baba thinking you can go for kura with a rigged system and win. Mistake baba did was to participate in rigged system. Should we realise its rigged we will simply boycott kura and shove it in Gatheca AH and create conditions for civil unrest. In short we will up the ante before kura not after



I never understand Kikuyus when they praise themselves for being the better kabila, yet they do not even feel safe in their own homes. Most Kikuyus I lived with in Nairobi, now in pension have stuck in town. The women hardly go to shags and the men only make daytime trips to their farms or homes in the rural area. Nobody dares spend the night in Muranga or Nyeri. If they do, then in the town.
Why do Kikuyus even have problems admitting that they have a big security issue?
I remember at one occasion my brother inlaw had a breakdown in the evening with his Toyota Prado in Western. We had a big problem getting even a watchman to take care of the car at night. There were none in sight. Cause they are not needed we were told. So the car ended up being abandoned on the roadside. Early the next morning, the car was intact. Imagine had this happened in kikuyuland.

Interesting, speak on it. Who was those attacking? Mungikis?!

I have never felt unsafe and insecure anywhere in Kenya even in Turkana and NEP as I was when in Centro. It is crazy, terror permeates the air. Bodies the first two nights I spent there. First one was found inside a water tank. Second was hacked badly. There is a code of silence, people speak in hushed tones, no one dares raise their head.



Millions of Gema folks are poor. A few Gema billionaires and millionaires cannot delete this fact. When Kenyans will learn to make the current goverment take responsibilty and not just support "mwizi wetu", then we will all make progress against poverty in the whole country.
Right now nobody is questioning the looting of the Covid-19 funds. Billions alledgely spent and little to show of it. The only goodness the pandemic does not know kabila. In the end all Kenyans will loose.

Wrong. Are you saying kalenjins are better off economically than average mt. Kenya folk? No one would believe you. Of course a few kalenjin moi era made it but majority are poor. In general Kenya other kabilas are poor compared to GEMA

It seems you have a problem accepting other Kenyans apart from Kikuyus can also be successful. You will die with your village mentality.


The info you have quoted is in his Linkiden,however its a fact he is an American and identifies himself as such.

Actually you should have written other Kenyans apart from Kikuyus. Such a person would have only have made it to an uder-secretary in some ministry in Kenya. Kabila mbaya.

https://www.kahawatungu.com/ceda-ogada-from-kenya-named-imf-secretary/

While a creature from Mars landing in Kenya may be made to think that Kenya is only inhabited by Kikuyus seeing they are the only ones that get appointed to plum govt jobs, he may be surprised to hear on the world stage, Luos continue to make waves. Hiyo tu.... ama namna gani @Termi?

This is what we call madness and not the Mau evictions. If a road is planned at this site, it is up to the 100% Kikuyu run Transport Ministry and the too Kikuyu run Kenya Roads Board to conferr with the occupants of these plots before decending on the stalls with bulldozers. In most cases the stalls are demolished and there after nothing happens. The people rebuild their stalls and life continues till the next unannouced demolition.

They were in Gikomba early morning. Uhuru and his technocrats seem deluded that our villages and urban slums will be turned to Geneva with concrete and green spaces. Meanwhile, rich kids are negotiating with Tobiko - Lang'ata won't be flattened or burnt down.

Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 04:47:52 PM
Stating facts. Even Pundit is not in your boat. I have hardly heard any reasonable politicain not coming from GEMA supporting this new division of county funds. Are they all anti GEMA?


Well your posts talk differently a sample
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 04:51:52 PM
You should also have commented on each statement I wrote instead of just quoting everywhere I wrote Kikuyus. Why did you not quote where I wrote Kalejin, Luo, Luhya etc?

A good example. Can you deny Transport Ministry, all road agencies are run by Kikuyus?


Well your posts talk differently a sample

Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 05:08:08 PM
Stating facts. Even Pundit is not in your boat. I have hardly heard any reasonable politicain not coming from GEMA supporting this new division of county funds. Are they all anti GEMA?


Well your posts talk differently a sample

This is a real fact

Quote
https://www.tuko.co.ke/370097-nandi-senator-brands-senate-leadership-enemy-devolution-revenue-allocation-motion-adjournment.html

"The proposed formula which has support of H.E Uhuru Kenyatta is a blessing to many counties including Nandi county which will become one of the beneficiaries," said Cherargei. Read more: https://www.tuko.co.ke/370097-nandi-senator-brands-senate-leadership-enemy-devolution-revenue-allocation-motion-adjournment.html

https://www.nation.co.ke/kenya/news/politics/county-cash-stalemate-senate-uhuru-raila-ruto--1906622

Vocal Nandi Senator Samson Cherargei wrote yesterday: “One man, one shilling. We must not punish counties because they are populous; money is allocated to people not anything else” an indicator of how the revenue sharing divide is not informed by local politics
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 05:14:54 PM
Cherargei is a confused politician. Even Kakamega's senator or the governor have not come out to support a motion that would give their county more allocations. People have to get to think of the whole country.

Vocal Nandi Senator Samson Cherargei wrote yesterday: “One man, one shilling. We must not punish counties because they are populous; money is allocated to people not anything else” an indicator of how the revenue sharing divide is not informed by local politics
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 05:20:32 PM
Cherargei is a confused politician. Even Kakamega's senator or the governor have not come out to support a motion that would give their county more allocations. People have to get to think of the whole country.

Vocal Nandi Senator Samson Cherargei wrote yesterday: “One man, one shilling. We must not punish counties because they are populous; money is allocated to people not anything else” an indicator of how the revenue sharing divide is not informed by local politics


Simply because he is the COG chairman . Does it make sense to you  ?
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 05:21:32 PM
You should also have commented on each statement I wrote instead of just quoting everywhere I wrote Kikuyus. Why did you not quote where I wrote Kalejin, Luo, Luhya etc?

A good example. Can you deny Transport Ministry, all road agencies are run by Kikuyus?


Well your posts talk differently a sample


You should just revisit your posts going back to 2015 - You are anti Mt Kenya .
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kadudu on July 27, 2020, 05:31:22 PM
I know you believe if am not with you, am with you.
Change your attitude. Come 2022 some other guy will be residing in SH. Will you develop siege mentality?

You should just revisit your posts going back to 2015 - You are anti Mt Kenya .
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nowayhaha on July 27, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
I know you believe if am not with you, am with you.
Change your attitude. Come 2022 some other guy will be residing in SH. Will you develop siege mentality?

You should just revisit your posts going back to 2015 - You are anti Mt Kenya .

You are the one suffering from siege mentality . Its evident here
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on July 27, 2020, 07:48:34 PM
You are the one suffering from siege mentality . Its evident here

We ni Kabila gani?

Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 27, 2020, 08:07:16 PM
To me, it seems fair to share revenue according to population size.  Sure, some counties are worse of than others, but I don't believe Kenya has reached that point where affirmative action is required to straighten out regional differences.  People are struggling everywhere.  What would make it even fairer is if the counties get a bigger share of the pie than the central government.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on July 27, 2020, 09:03:08 PM
To me, it seems fair to share revenue according to population size.  Sure, some counties are worse of than others, but I don't believe Kenya has reached that point where affirmative action is required to straighten out regional differences.  People are struggling everywhere.  What would make it even fairer is if the counties get a bigger share of the pie than the central government.

Economic output should be the primary criteria for redistributing funds not population size of county. Perverse incentives should be avoided. Otherwise we will have population explosion. If GEMA and RV contribute more to the national kitty per capita no one should begrudge them.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: RV Pundit on July 27, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
or Census rigging - Nigeria style.
Economic output should be the primary criteria for redistributing funds not population size of county. Perverse incentives should be avoided. Otherwise we will have population explosion. If GEMA and RV contribute more to the national kitty per capita no one should begrudge them.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on July 28, 2020, 09:51:55 AM
Robina where are you? Anyway it's over for baba even before it has begun at this rate Ruto will be the only presidential candidate. Coast NEP yote itakuwa Ruto.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 30, 2020, 05:37:29 PM
To me, it seems fair to share revenue according to population size.  Sure, some counties are worse of than others, but I don't believe Kenya has reached that point where affirmative action is required to straighten out regional differences.  People are struggling everywhere.  What would make it even fairer is if the counties get a bigger share of the pie than the central government.

Economic output should be the primary criteria for redistributing funds not population size of county. Perverse incentives should be avoided. Otherwise we will have population explosion. If GEMA and RV contribute more to the national kitty per capita no one should begrudge them.

There is really not much anyone can do about corruption if a significant portion of the population no longer buys into the system.  We can see that right here in the US under Trump.

Assuming you are saying GEMA and RV should get more or less resources, there has to be mechanism to determine that.  I don't believe there is one in place.  So population makes sense in the meantime.  Still, even in a Federal system like the US, some states(mostly Blue) are net losers subsidizing others like (Kentucky) to enjoy living standards that their own contributions cannot sustain.
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on July 31, 2020, 02:39:56 AM
There is really not much anyone can do about corruption if a significant portion of the population no longer buys into the system.  We can see that right here in the US under Trump.

Assuming you are saying GEMA and RV should get more or less resources, there has to be mechanism to determine that.  I don't believe there is one in place.  So population makes sense in the meantime.  Still, even in a Federal system like the US, some states(mostly Blue) are net losers subsidizing others like (Kentucky) to enjoy living standards that their own contributions cannot sustain.

Not correct.

Quote
The overarching principle to be used as a basis for revenue allocation is spelled out in the Principles of Public Finance (Article 201), specifically 201(b) which states that “the public finance system shall promote an equitable society” and 201(b) (iii) which says that “expenditure shall promote the equitable development of the country, including by making special provisions for marginalised groups and areas”. (emphasis mine).

Quote
Equitable society” and “equitable development” are defined by outcomes such as income per person, life expectancy, school enrollment and education outcomes, access to healthcare, etc. Put differently, this part of the “social contract” that we entered into in August 2010 obliges the state to redress the legacy of inequitable development, marginalisation and exclusion, and to pursue development convergence across the country. While development disparities may persist for different reasons, no community or part of Kenya is entitled to more development than the other using public money. Any distribution of public resources which portends reinforcing these disparities, or creating new ones, is unconstitutional.

Quote
We have seen the National Government spend over Sh30b on a transmission line to evacuate wind power from Marsabit to serve these so-called “high potential areas and people”. The people of Marsabit get nothing for their wind resources, and when it comes to sharing revenue, the contribution of the wind resource to the revenue counts for nothing. We have seen the national government rush to Turkana to develop infrastructure to exploit oil, but when it comes to revenue allocation, the investment the oil has brought into the country counts for nothing for the people of Turkana. We have seen the national government pour billions into the Galana-Kulalu Irrigation scheme—notwithstanding the fact agriculture is a devolved function—to meet the food deficit of the high potential areas, yet when it comes to revenue, the envisaged contribution of Tana River people’s land and water resources to national food security counts for nothing. This model of controlling and exploiting the resources in the periphery for the benefit of the centre is called colonialism.

Quote
If Kenyatta and his Kikuyu supremacist cabal feel it is intolerable, there is always the alternative of a full federal system. Mombasa and Lamu get to keep their ports. Turkana gets to develop its oil resources. Marsabit gets to charge for its wind resources. The Tsavo National Park reverts to Taita-Taveta County.

Quote
Tyranny of numbers, domination of the weak by the strong, and ethnic superiority complexes, this is not an option. Without a commitment to equitable development, there is no social contract, which is to say that, sooner or later, there will be no Kenya.

Divorce is also an option.

Many people are not aware this issues were tackled in 2010 constitution.

https://www.theelephant.info/op-eds/2020/07/28/one-man-one-shilling-politics-a-return-to-inequitable-development-marginalisation-and-exclusion/

 
Title: Re: Raila caves in to GEMA demands
Post by: Nefertiti on August 01, 2020, 10:47:04 AM
This should be left mostly to economists. CRA for example stuffed by Micah Serems. That said I disagree with one vote-one shilling. National government still has 70% of the revenue to focus on ROI and high potential sectors or regions. Devolution is about equitable development so the present formula should continue.

Raila and Uhuru interest is to seduce GEMA and Ruto is taking the bait. Seem Ruto has given up on GEMA and is targeting Coast? This may also undermine him in Luhya. Senators obviously care more about their county share than orders from above. The only surprise vote was Sakaja.