Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on July 18, 2019, 10:24:39 PM
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Aukot just got 1.2m verified signature.Raila failed to collect 1m because he cannot hack the simplest of task.Safaricom had to change mpesa books to remove names as ODM just copied over mpesa entries.And that party that cried rigging every way.They even accused the same Safaricom of rigging them.Anyway, Look like we might have so many referendums proposal...
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As we wait for Raila's BBI concoction - here is Aukot's mixture.
The initiative proposes a seven-year one term president,
reduce the number of MPs and senators from the current 416 to 147.
It also wants the scrapping of nominated positions in the Senate and county assemblies
increase in county allocations from 15 to 35 per cent of the annual audited revenues.
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https://thirdwayalliance.com/download/PUNGUZA_MIZIGO_Amendment_Bill_2019_A.pdf
The bill will most likely sail through the County Assemblies - because it makes MCA basically MPs - and grants them CDF.
It basically kick the teeth of Mps - who really can't do shiet to stop the referendum - because once majority of counties approved - the referendum is inevitable.
My only complain is why make PORK 1-term 7 yrs. What if it's a really bad deal?
And also with only 47 Mps and 47 Senators - things will be thick for PORK - impeachment wise.
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How Aukot managed to pull that stunt while Baby's juggernaut failed is funny
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It's not funny. It very typical of Raila.
Dr Sally Kosgey take -PM’s purported ‘indiscipline’, or ‘managerial ineffectiveness’ and ‘lack of focus on the reform agenda’ all began.
Orengo take - Odinga has done nothing to reorganize his office to make it more effective; Odinga is a poor manager who does not follow up;
Miguna - Raila is all about rehearsed speeches and comedy.
Ruto - Mr kitendawili is just about political intrigues and wizardry :)
Read more: http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/5086#ixzz5u6kLVgGX
How Aukot managed to pull that stunt while Baby's juggernaut failed is funny
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Punguza mzigo has overwhelming support so far.The turkana boy may just steal thunder from Robina BBI dream parliamentary system
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Keep on dreaming.
Punguza mzigo has overwhelming support so far.The turkana boy may just steal thunder from Robina BBI dream parliamentary system
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Keep on dreaming
Turkana boy ndio dawa sawa yenu.Remember how he made nonsense of Raila election boycott strategy.Hii take will pass through counties bila kupingwa and then referendum will be inevitable
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Tell your dreamboy Turkana boy to call a rally at Uhuru Park or even better in Turkana and will see how many of his supporters will turn up.
Turkana boy ndio dawa sawa yenu.Remember how he made nonsense of Raila election boycott strategy.Hii take will pass through counties bila kupingwa and then referendum will be inevitable
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Turkana boy got 1.2m genuine verified signatures.Okoa Raila did not get that.Respect Dr Aukot.Hii kijana mturu ako sawa.BBI nonsense will not get anywhere.Rather than following the katiba and collecting signatures...you going round with mock views collection that will not pass parliament..last minute you'll start signature collection...ujinga sana.Uhuru just bought 2yrs as BBI engage in useless talk shop.Baadaye after another 1yr itaangushwa or well sections it touches needed a referendum anyway..and that requires 1m okoa Raila signatures... meanwhile Turkana boy will be home n dry.Where in the katiba does it say after some comitte of wazee calling themselves building bridges do you have a referendum.After BBI Uhuru will take few months to study it and then forward to Duale.Duale will promptly dumb it in trash can and it will end up eithet in Dandor dumpsite or in Madhu paper for recycling as a tissue paper.
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Poor Pundit-the "magic" is gone! Ouru left your boy at the alter.
Turkana boy got 1.2m genuine verified signatures.Okoa Raila did not get that.Respect Dr Aukot.Hii kijana mturu ako sawa.BBI nonsense will not get anywhere.Rather than following the katiba and collecting signatures...you going round with mock views collection that will not pass parliament..last minute you'll start signature collection...ujinga sana.Uhuru just bought 2yrs as BBI engage in useless talk shop.Baadaye after another 1yr itaangushwa or well sections it touches needed a referendum anyway..and that requires 1m okoa Raila signatures... meanwhile Turkana boy will be home n dry.Where in the katiba does it say after some comitte of wazee calling themselves building bridges do you have a referendum.After BBI Uhuru will take few months to study it and then forward to Duale.Duale will promptly dumb it in trash can and it will end up eithet in Dandor dumpsite or in Madhu paper for recycling as a tissue paper.
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Poor Pundit-the "magic" is gone! Ouru left your boy at the alter.
Turkana boy got 1.2m genuine verified signatures.Okoa Raila did not get that.Respect Dr Aukot.Hii kijana mturu ako sawa.BBI nonsense will not get anywhere.Rather than following the katiba and collecting signatures...you going round with mock views collection that will not pass parliament..last minute you'll start signature collection...ujinga sana.Uhuru just bought 2yrs as BBI engage in useless talk shop.Baadaye after another 1yr itaangushwa or well sections it touches needed a referendum anyway..and that requires 1m okoa Raila signatures... meanwhile Turkana boy will be home n dry.Where in the katiba does it say after some comitte of wazee calling themselves building bridges do you have a referendum.After BBI Uhuru will take few months to study it and then forward to Duale.Duale will promptly dumb it in trash can and it will end up eithet in Dandor dumpsite or in Madhu paper for recycling as a tissue paper.
What magic.You continue watching Ruto attain what Raila has failed before he hits 55yrs.
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https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001334575/punguza-mizigo-has-already-won-referendum-race
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County Assembly chair Johnson Osoi n senate majority leader indicate the pungunza mzigo will get support... https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2019-07-20-comment-we-support-aukot-referendum/
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The race is on to get 24 counties to support this.Ruto should support this clandestinely to throw a wrench on BBI.
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My only issue with pungunza mzigo is inreleastic timeline on corruption cases...six months is reasonable.But one month with 15 days appeal is very tight...judiciary will have to sit 24hrs thro corrupt cases.And 7yrs non renewable pork term...is problematic
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Robina, when you recover from the shock, let us know your opinion on this bill.
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(http://www.beneaththecover.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/LM-112310-dog-chasing-its-own-tail-300x290.jpg)
Poor Pundit-the "magic" is gone! Ouru left your boy at the alter.
Turkana boy got 1.2m genuine verified signatures.Okoa Raila did not get that.Respect Dr Aukot.Hii kijana mturu ako sawa.BBI nonsense will not get anywhere.Rather than following the katiba and collecting signatures...you going round with mock views collection that will not pass parliament..last minute you'll start signature collection...ujinga sana.Uhuru just bought 2yrs as BBI engage in useless talk shop.Baadaye after another 1yr itaangushwa or well sections it touches needed a referendum anyway..and that requires 1m okoa Raila signatures... meanwhile Turkana boy will be home n dry.Where in the katiba does it say after some comitte of wazee calling themselves building bridges do you have a referendum.After BBI Uhuru will take few months to study it and then forward to Duale.Duale will promptly dumb it in trash can and it will end up eithet in Dandor dumpsite or in Madhu paper for recycling as a tissue paper.
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How is life in Uhurutopia - is the manna still pouring :)
I support more devolution - 45% not 35% - fewer MPs and MCAs but with gender parity. Scrapping women seats is DOA. I also prefer parliamentary - all those developed countries have a parliamentary system for a reason and are not as politically segmented as the presidential poster-child US.
Your reflex latch for dear life onto this mere leaf - as MV BBI leave you behind - is very telling. BBI is about legitimacy not legality - you know that surely. Aukot is a rent-seeker who probably banked his own hand-cheque in Oct 2017. CORD could not get 1M signatures because of Jubilee poodle Isaack Hassan - not copying from M-Pesa which was Ruto and Moses Kuria propaganda.
Robina, when you recover from the shock, let us know your opinion on this bill.
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"Success has many fathers - but failure is an orphan." - watch Uhuru's response towards the end after desperate Mulu Mutisya grovel and praise him.
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BBI now christened Blue Band Intitiave aka TooYoungToRetire just suffered a mortal blow from Turkana boy PunguzaMzigo. I think you should read the bill again.There is 50% gender parity in parliament because each county will elect a man and woman to represent them with 5 nominated for disabled n such.Senate the upper house will have no gender parity though.The 35% is not of audited revenues but Budget.That is very huge.This year counties would be entitled to 1 trillion.That plus Ward Dec Fund means it will surpass the 24 county threshold and from there it will be referendum all the way.So as BBI conclude their nonsense..by October the County Assemblies will probably have set Dr Aukot ship on high shores..aka referendum lazima.My only beef with Aukot is unreasonable anti graft proposal.. hearing and determination of cases in 1 month is hard but not impossible.But yes giving real teeth to Auditor General by demanding clean audit from gov is a huge step forward.
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(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64788236_936104180056124_707016458042867712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeEASyG3CpDemPVqipFoG75fo-MtH0T29Z1ggSGVHpgDKZ2MnNSJrDIbLoLUKc6YsZNE2NNFNs6f5MGVU2DPTa1wtM04643_jq0T55RfB8zX3Q&_nc_oc=AQk4TIqb2sgO_svlBJHhjGHgiykEPEuX-yWfAka3BpJ0YnhqAGdSVLHfDuAihrj8HCQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fnbo2-1.fna&oh=1f9d91a4912e4cfcdd771737438d48b3&oe=5DEEB639)
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Murkomen in support
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/64917682_3120455301305477_3045814171498184704_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_eui2=AeFjLsdYAvI2KANs7c6IJYpAQw9GtzqxPdUkZlOlHX1JZKnJrn616A-0CpPy8nixp1l-kT5vQYTUBgW9Muvt0K8HB5cHoBqhNeuwq4rdeA-rkg&_nc_oc=AQls9tgilVVhvhwUmfmweMTpEmNQV3elqvwCP100o4-mCCXNC5z7BAlmLIH_BBISDs8&_nc_ht=scontent.fnbo2-1.fna&oh=bd6d3e55a3798616e3f7b8cda94e2a95&oe=5DB3C6CD)
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Meanwhile ODM (read Luo Nyanza) ask everyone to wait for their Blue Band Initiative.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001334729/odm-leaders-dismiss-punguza-mizigo-proposals
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Kihiki Kimani daughter
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67159610_1629106383888121_403461535499812864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeG5hx-POoXeTmsyvhcXEy9h-Ndi0suk_UbDaHZFkiI9HjRIIDJkCBiDKVbXFRVn5evsuYZ5x8VHszzP5gxgsByYpWTi3HcjuNS5U8QZZ0oBnw&_nc_oc=AQlCYRI4BpXFKQoEtCPDhlBqBkMyhG7TGxoRS897G-l-ZGByI4mP-MzlUFFquxKvo6o&_nc_ht=scontent.fnbo2-1.fna&oh=444e20fdcff38d7aae4a66c36a66dacb&oe=5DA3FF77)
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Corruption - This is a very good improvement - which I suspect MPs and MCAs won't love so fondly. I would support this bill on this anti-graft basis alone. Aukot need to make it clear automatic vacating office includes elected officials - including PORK or PM, MPs, MCAs. Private prosecution need to be allowed if DPP/EACC/DCI get compromised - say after a 3 month window after public scandal with inaction.
Devolution - 35% is good but prefer 45-50% but with more functions devolved - say referral hospitals and such. Food security also needs devolution so Nanok can save his starving folks with extra billions - waiting for incompetent Eugene or Chelugui from Nairobi is bad idea as history has shown. Pundit - note this is a % of revenues not whole budget.
Voter registration - very good - automatically upon getting ID you are a voter. I wonder what happens to voting locality - most folks registered for ID in different location from their present residence. Which governor, MP, MCA do you pick - just vote wherever you are on poll day? Need to be clear to carefully prevent vote-ferrying. Sonko can bring his kaos from Macha or such if all you need is ID.
MPs - very happy with reduced numbers and gender parity but so-so on the county as the constituency. Representation of one county by senator + 2 MPs - is ambiguous and potentially negative. Need to either create two districts per county for MPs - and the genders can swap every election or something. They need to be more creative and innovative in achieving fewer MPs and gender parity. Avoid a convoluted or ambiguous system to assure transparency and accountability.
Senate - happy with new Upper House. With veto powers it needs some gender parity too - cause the 100% men could veto all women bills. There is some incoherence in mixed roles NA vs Senate - vetting, treaties, succession of D/PORK by speaker, etc - refined US model is good to copy from.
MP salaries - bad to cap at 0.35% of revenues - cause economy will grow in future and they should still not be overpaid then. Better set by expressly binding them to SRC cadres - and protect SRC from MPigs revenge.
Issues not addressed by Punguza Mzigo:
Accountability - this is a very big gap. Punguza mzigo fails to make PORK & Exec accountable. Impunity is not only graft - abuse of power, cronyism and hero worship are a big part of it.
Police reforms - does not address how the stalled reforms are to be completed. This is a glaring problem cause police are very core in society.
Enactment of 2010 pending and these new clauses - new laws are not expressly mandated so parliament will scuttle them as they have done since 2010. Election finance, MP recalls, etc - needed to be addressed cause MPs and political parties have conflict of interest.
Sanctity of new clauses - graft, MP salaries, party rules need to be included in Sanctity Clause 255 same as BoR - so they cannot be amended by parliament without referenda. IEBC could automatically set the party rules without parliament approval - sames as SRC for salaries. MPs are 100% unanimous with impunity on their welfare.
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EXECUTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY
Pundit I don't know why you oppose parliamentary? - cause it is meant for accountability of the Exec. The design is obvious very good and effective as I have demonstrated with the UK, Canada, Israel, Germany, Japan, etc. Outside the radically segmented US - which other shiny democracy do you know that is pure presidential? Parliamentary does not disadvantage Ruto - it just as competitive and makes him more accountable. PM is automatically the Leader of the majority party or coalition - he must still sell his party to voters to win majority - and he remains very accountable with PMQs every week. No more uthamaki or Kikuyu/Kalenjin privilege. If PM step down or die - new party leader picks the mantle. This is playing out in the UK right now after frustrated May step down. Brexit gave her serious headache - while in Kenya imperial PORK give away Migingo without any consultation or approval. Right now Almighty Uhuru start Huduma Namba, BBI, appoint PM, hound Tanga Tanga and whatnot without any debate. No questions asked. He is not accountable plain and simple.
I don't see Aukot as making headway with the severe anti-graft measures but let's wait. MCAs don't want more funds only for "development". The value of this is setting a very high bar for BBI - especially on graft and MPs. If BBI counter with same method for graft, devolution 45%, few MPs and gender parity - they stand a chance - else they have a problem.
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My problem with Ekuru Aukot is that he is political malaya. He has made a profession out of it. He stands for presidential elections hoping all the opponents will just die in a freak accident leaving him President.
I will oppose his referendum even if it comes to vote.
I dont think the current constitution requires any amendment. Therefore BBI or PM are a waste of time.
Ofcourse PM will fail at county Assembly level. The NIS will bribe/ intimidate speakers to kill it like the killed People's Assemblies. It is Ruto who spearheaded the defeat and Aukot cheered (just so we don't forget). The ame process that Ruto used (and Aukot cheered) will be used to kill.
Unless Uhuru drops dead today or before the BBI nonsense is completed they will propose a referendum. Unless they rig it, Raila will be handed his first real political defeat.
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Kihiki Kimani daughter
(https://scontent.fnbo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67159610_1629106383888121_403461535499812864_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeG5hx-POoXeTmsyvhcXEy9h-Ndi0suk_UbDaHZFkiI9HjRIIDJkCBiDKVbXFRVn5evsuYZ5x8VHszzP5gxgsByYpWTi3HcjuNS5U8QZZ0oBnw&_nc_oc=AQlCYRI4BpXFKQoEtCPDhlBqBkMyhG7TGxoRS897G-l-ZGByI4mP-MzlUFFquxKvo6o&_nc_ht=scontent.fnbo2-1.fna&oh=444e20fdcff38d7aae4a66c36a66dacb&oe=5DA3FF77)
There is no WDF - or did I miss something? Just setting the ward as the basic unit of devolution and development.
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Why must Aukot address all issues?. Are we overhauling the constitution or just amending it to fix the minor issues. Once you accept we are fixing - then it possible to let Aukot thing go through - and parliament can ammend the odious ones - unless they touch on those protected by the constitution.
Honestly I do not see what role Mps play - so having two elected - one woman and men mp - is good for me. Beside the men can keep the senate - and we would still be 1/3 gender rules. There are really very very few women-only issues...
We can call our MCAS - Mps - and I like the fact that most of these issues will be dealt a devolved unit. Transfering 35% of the budget is huge. What will also need to happen is transferring function.
Anyway unless it touches on something that will require the referendum again; I say pass this thing; and let parliament fix the odious issues later.
Corruption - This is a very good improvement - which I suspect MPs and MCAs won't love so fondly. I would support this bill on this anti-graft basis alone. Aukot need to make it clear automatic vacating office includes elected officials - including PORK or PM. Private prosecution need to be allowed if DPP/EACC/DCI get compromised - say after a 3 month window after public scandal with inaction.
Devolution - 35% is good but prefer need 45-50% but with more functions devolved - say referral hospitals and such. Food security also needs devolution so Nanok can save his folks with extra billions - waiting for incompetent Eugene or Cheluhui from Nairobi is bad idea as history has shown. Pundit - note this it is a % of revenues not whole budget.
Voter registration - very good - automatically upon getting ID you are a voter. I wonder what happens to voting locality - most folks registered for ID in different location from their present residence. Which governor, MP, MCA do you pick - wherever you are? Need to be clear to carefully prevent vote-ferrying. Sonko can bring his kaos from Macha or such of all you need is ID.
MPs - very happy with reduced numbers and gender parity but so-so the county as the constituency. Representation of one county by senator + 2 MPs - is ambiguous and potentially negative. Need to either create two districts per county for MPs - and the genders can swap every election or something. They need to be more creative and innovative in achieving fewer MPs and gender parity. Avoid a convoluted or ambiguous system to assure transparency and accountability.
Senate - happy with new Upper House. With veto powers it needs some gender parity too - cause the 100% men could veto all women bills. There is some incoherence in mixed roles NA vs Senate - vetting, treaties, succession of PORK, etc - refined US model is good to copy from.
MP salaries - bad to cap at 0.35% of revenues - cause economy will grow in future and they should still not be overpaid then. Better set by expressly binding them to SRC cadres - and protect SRC from MPigs revenge.
Issues not addressed by Punguza Mzigo:
Accountability - this is a very big gap. Punguza mzigo fails to make PORK & Exec accountable. Impunity is not only graft - abuse of power is a big part of it.
Police reforms - does not address how the stalled reforms are to be completed. This is a glaring problem cause police are very core in society.
Enactment of 2010 pending and these new clauses - new laws are not expressly mandated so parliament will scuttle them as they have done with 2010. Election finance, recalls, etc - needed to be addressed cause MPs and political parties have conflict of interest.
Sanctity of new clauses - graft, MP salaries, party rules need to be included in Sanctity Clause 255 same as BoR - so they cannot be amended by parliament without referenda. IEBC could automatically set the party rules without parliament approval - sames as SRC for salaries. MPs are 100% unanimous with impunity on their welfare.
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What you're calling for is a complete overhaul of the constitution. Our current constitution is presidential systems - and that permeates through out. Once you go parliamentary - then you basically ripping apart the constitution and starting afresh.
Personally, I don't really care about the system. Whatever we put in places, we will not magically transform into a modern country. Britain doesn't even have a constitution.
The constitution that was overhauled in 2010 - need few tweaks - otherwise the Blue Band Initiative is waste of time and money.
EXECUTIVE ACCOUNTABILITY
Pundit I don't know why you oppose parliamentary? - cause it is meant for accountability of the Exec. The design is obvious very good and effective as I have demonstrated with the UK, Canada, Israel, Gernany, Japan, etc. Outside the radically segmented US - which other shiny democracy do you know that is pure presidential? Parliamentary does not shortchange Ruto - it just as competitive and makes him more accountable. PM is automatically the Leader of the majority party or coalition - he must still sell his party to voters to win majority - and he remains very accountable with PMQs every week. No more uthamaki or Kikuyu/Kalenjin privilege. If PM step down or die - new party leader picks the mantle. This is playing out in the UK right now after frustrated May step down. Brexit gave her serious headache - while in Kenya imperial PORK give away Migingo without any consultation or approval. Right now Almighty Uhuru start Huduma Namba, BBI, appoint PM, hound Tanga Tanga and whatnot without any debate. No questions asked. He is not accountable plain and simple.
I don't see Aukot as making headway with the severe anti-graft measures but let's wait. MCAs don't want more funds only for "development". The value of this is setting a very high bar for BBI - especially on graft and gender. If BBI counter with same method for graft, devolution 45%, few MPs and gender parity - they stand a chance - else they have a problem.
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The race is on to get 24 counties to support this.Ruto should support this clandestinely to throw a wrench on BBI.
I have not counted possible supporting counties.
Note that you are as usual being disingenuous. OKOA Kenya did not fail to collect enough signatures. The IEBC subjected the signatures to a vindictive exercise whose objective was to fail it. It is one of the reasons I hope God will forgive Isaac Hassan because a mere mortal like me lacks the capacity to even contemplate forgiving a fraction of that man's sins.
If you need proof of the bias feel free to ask.
For the record I neither support BBI or PMI. I think we have a good constitution which can only get better if it is implemented in letter and spirit.
Uhuru Kenyatta has basically sought to OPPOSE and LIMIT the constitution rather than support and facilitate it. No President has violated the constitution as frequently as Uhuru. His violations are DELIBERATE.
Moi was a bloody despot but he took care to change or amend laws rather than break them. He would amend laws to grant himself powers to do what the previous law denied him. Uhuru simply breaks the law. That is the problem NOT the current constitution
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Aukot if he remained a raila loyal lapdog would be just some turkana parrot. I am glad he is doing his own thing. Is Raila only allowed to engage in political umalaya? And Rutos, Aukots - everyone - else are supposed not to cut deals - that further their own interest and careers?
Anyway, I do not see how NIS can stop this. They should have done it before. I think someone at IEBC slept and they let this go through.
The way I see this playing out.
1) MCAS - have three months to turn their decision in. By then BBI will still be meeting in hotel rooms and won't have a counter-offer.
2) MCA & Counties are going to salivate at the prospect of CDF & 35% of the budget.
Once it passes MCAs - referendum will be inevitable.
As for BBI - they are so behind - they need to get Raila & Uhuru report with recommendation - then recommendation - will need to be implemented. If they say the constitution needed to be ammended...they have to start the process of referendum....if they go for parliament -- they will not meet 2/3 majority - but they will attempt - and then fail - and then attempt to start signature collection - and then verification - and then counties - and then parliament & senate.
My problem with Ekuru Aukot is that he is political malaya. He has made a profession out of it. He stands for presidential elections hoping all the opponents will just die in a freak accident leaving him President.
I will oppose his referendum even if it comes to vote.
I dont think the current constitution requires any amendment. Therefore BBI or PM are a waste of time.
Ofcourse PM will fail at county Assembly level. The NIS will bribe/ intimidate speakers to kill it like the killed People's Assemblies. It is Ruto who spearheaded the defeat and Aukot cheered (just so we don't forget). The ame process that Ruto used (and Aukot cheered) will be used to kill.
Unless Uhuru drops dead today or before the BBI nonsense is completed they will propose a referendum. Unless they rig it, Raila will be handed his first real political defeat.
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My problem with Ekuru Aukot is that he is political malaya. He has made a profession out of it. He stands for presidential elections hoping all the opponents will just die in a freak accident leaving him President.
I will oppose his referendum even if it comes to vote.
I dont think the current constitution requires any amendment. Therefore BBI or PM are a waste of time.
Ofcourse PM will fail at county Assembly level. The NIS will bribe/ intimidate speakers to kill it like the killed People's Assemblies. It is Ruto who spearheaded the defeat and Aukot cheered (just so we don't forget). The ame process that Ruto used (and Aukot cheered) will be used to kill.
Unless Uhuru drops dead today or before the BBI nonsense is completed they will propose a referendum. Unless they rig it, Raila will be handed his first real political defeat.
Are you of the school of thought that Uhuru is playing Raila in Handshake and BBI?
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If Ruto supports this - 24 is more than shoe-in - but I think this one will get in with 40 out 47 counties. The elected MCAs are being elevated to MPs. Who on their right mind will vote no. Maybe the 3 or 4 counties of Luo Nyanza who are Raila slaves.
Okoa kenya forced Safaricom to remove the names of people from M-pesa book. Their fraudulent signature collection was brazen. And still when IEBC ran the verification...IEBC received a total of 1,633,577 signatures but its report following the verification process had a total of 891,598 signatures which is below the threshold of one million votes required for a referendum.
Turkana Boy - involved IEBC throughout the process - and went on to collect clean signatures.
I have not counted possible supporting counties.
Note that you are as usual being disingenuous. OKOA Kenya did not fail to collect enough signatures. The IEBC subjected the signatures to a vindictive exercise whose objective was to fail it. It is one of the reasons I hope God will forgive Isaac Hassan because a mere mortal like me lacks the capacity to even contemplate forgiving a fraction of that man's sins.
If you need proof of the bias feel free to ask.
For the record I neither support BBI or PMI. I think we have a good constitution which can only get better if it is implemented in letter and spirit.
Uhuru Kenyatta has basically sought to OPPOSE and LIMIT the constitution rather than support and facilitate it. No President has violated the constitution as frequently as Uhuru. His violations are DELIBERATE.
Moi was a bloody despot but he took care to change or amend laws rather than break them. He would amend laws to grant himself powers to do what the previous law denied him. Uhuru simply breaks the law. That is the problem NOT the current constitution
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Yes I agree - but it has flaws - for example MPs would immediately amend the unprotected clause on salaries.
Why must Aukot address all issues?. Are we overhauling the constitution or just amending it to fix the minor issues. Once you accept we are fixing - then it possible to let Aukot thing go through - and parliament can ammend the odious ones - unless they touch on those protected by the constitution.
Honestly I do not see what role Mps play - so having two elected - one woman and men mp - is good for me. Beside the men can keep the senate - and we would still be 1/3 gender rules. There are really very very few women-only issues...
We can call our MCAS - Mps - and I like the fact that most of these issues will be dealt a devolved unit. Transfering 35% of the budget is huge. What will also need to happen is transferring function.
Anyway unless it touches on something that will require the referendum again; I say pass this thing; and let parliament fix the odious issues later.
Corruption - This is a very good improvement - which I suspect MPs and MCAs won't love so fondly. I would support this bill on this anti-graft basis alone. Aukot need to make it clear automatic vacating office includes elected officials - including PORK or PM. Private prosecution need to be allowed if DPP/EACC/DCI get compromised - say after a 3 month window after public scandal with inaction.
Devolution - 35% is good but prefer need 45-50% but with more functions devolved - say referral hospitals and such. Food security also needs devolution so Nanok can save his folks with extra billions - waiting for incompetent Eugene or Cheluhui from Nairobi is bad idea as history has shown. Pundit - note this it is a % of revenues not whole budget.
Voter registration - very good - automatically upon getting ID you are a voter. I wonder what happens to voting locality - most folks registered for ID in different location from their present residence. Which governor, MP, MCA do you pick - wherever you are? Need to be clear to carefully prevent vote-ferrying. Sonko can bring his kaos from Macha or such of all you need is ID.
MPs - very happy with reduced numbers and gender parity but so-so the county as the constituency. Representation of one county by senator + 2 MPs - is ambiguous and potentially negative. Need to either create two districts per county for MPs - and the genders can swap every election or something. They need to be more creative and innovative in achieving fewer MPs and gender parity. Avoid a convoluted or ambiguous system to assure transparency and accountability.
Senate - happy with new Upper House. With veto powers it needs some gender parity too - cause the 100% men could veto all women bills. There is some incoherence in mixed roles NA vs Senate - vetting, treaties, succession of PORK, etc - refined US model is good to copy from.
MP salaries - bad to cap at 0.35% of revenues - cause economy will grow in future and they should still not be overpaid then. Better set by expressly binding them to SRC cadres - and protect SRC from MPigs revenge.
Issues not addressed by Punguza Mzigo:
Accountability - this is a very big gap. Punguza mzigo fails to make PORK & Exec accountable. Impunity is not only graft - abuse of power is a big part of it.
Police reforms - does not address how the stalled reforms are to be completed. This is a glaring problem cause police are very core in society.
Enactment of 2010 pending and these new clauses - new laws are not expressly mandated so parliament will scuttle them as they have done with 2010. Election finance, recalls, etc - needed to be addressed cause MPs and political parties have conflict of interest.
Sanctity of new clauses - graft, MP salaries, party rules need to be included in Sanctity Clause 255 same as BoR - so they cannot be amended by parliament without referenda. IEBC could automatically set the party rules without parliament approval - sames as SRC for salaries. MPs are 100% unanimous with impunity on their welfare.
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Yes - nothing is going to be perfect - humans being will game any system. We just have to keep amending and amending. Hopefully these kind of amendments can be added to the election - so it becomes manageable financially.
Yes I agree - but it has flaws - for example MPs would immediately amend the unprotected clause on salaries.
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Well I thought you knew me well enough to know I don't have a rule for every person and that I have only one rule for all. I have not said I support BBI or even Raila on this matter. I supported Raila for President. We swore him in and we had not idea he had already cut a deal negotiated between his wife and Mama Ngina. Once NASA died at Raila's hands that also ended my support.
There is no wa in hell (perhaps Heaven) I can ever support anything that would aid Uhuru Kenyatta and the Kenyatta Family. When Raila joined The Kenyatta Family, he automatically lost my support. There is a limit to how far one can follow a leader. But he will soon discover what real treachery is.
I equally do not support the Aukot initiative. Any amendments to the constitution will allow Uhuru a 3rd rigged term. You Pundit should know better than to cheer things before you full understand them.
Moi won against James Orengo in 1992 by arguing against retroactivity of the two term ban. Kibaki was beaten because an express provision barred him but again he had no desire for a third term. Amend the constitution creating a one term 7 year term and you hand Uhuru a lifeline.
In fact I now think it's Uhuru behind the PMI
Aukot if he remained a raila loyal lapdog would be just some turkana parrot. I am glad he is doing his own thing. Is Raila only allowed to engage in political umalaya? And Rutos, Aukots - everyone - else are supposed not to cut deals - that further their own interest and careers?
Anyway, I do not see how NIS can stop this. They should have done it before. I think someone at IEBC slept and they let this go through.
The way I see this playing out.
1) MCAS - have three months to turn their decision in. By then BBI will still be meeting in hotel rooms and won't have a counter-offer.
2) MCA & Counties are going to salivate at the prospect of CDF & 35% of the budget.
Once it passes MCAs - referendum will be inevitable.
As for BBI - they are so behind - they need to get Raila & Uhuru report with recommendation - then recommendation - will need to be implemented. If they say the constitution needed to be ammended...they have to start the process of referendum....if they go for parliament -- they will not meet 2/3 majority - but they will attempt - and then fail - and then attempt to start signature collection - and then verification - and then counties - and then parliament & senate.
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Kibaki clauses apply to Uhuru. Uhuru has to murder a lot of people to run again. It will not be pretty. Let him not even try.
Well I thought you knew me well enough to know I don't have a rule for every person and that I have only one rule for all. I have not said I support BBI or even Raila on this matter. I supported Raila for President. We swore him in and we had not idea he had already cut a deal negotiated between his wife and Mama Ngina. Once NASA died at Raila's hands that also ended my support.
There is no wa in hell (perhaps Heaven) I can ever support anything that would aid Uhuru Kenyatta and the Kenyatta Family. When Raila joined The Kenyatta Family, he automatically lost my support. There is a limit to how far one can follow a leader. But he will soon discover what real treachery is.
I equally do not support the Aukot initiative. Any amendments to the constitution will allow Uhuru a 3rd rigged term. You Pundit should know better than to cheer things before you full understand them.
Moi won against James Orengo in 1992 by arguing against retroactivity of the two term ban. Kibaki was beaten because an express provision barred him but again he had no desire for a third term. Amend the constitution creating a one term 7 year term and you hand Uhuru a lifeline.
In fact I now think it's Uhuru behind the PMI
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You are wrong on devolved funds - it is 35% of revenues - about 1.6T - not % of the entire budget.
There is also no WDF.
BBI now christened Blue Band Intitiave aka TooYoungToRetire just suffered a mortal blow from Turkana boy PunguzaMzigo. I think you should read the bill again.There is 50% gender parity in parliament because each county will elect a man and woman to represent them with 5 nominated for disabled n such.Senate the upper house will have no gender parity though.The 35% is not of audited revenues but Budget.That is very huge.This year counties would be entitled to 1 trillion.That plus Ward Dec Fund means it will surpass the 24 county threshold and from there it will be referendum all the way.So as BBI conclude their nonsense..by October the County Assemblies will probably have set Dr Aukot ship on high shores..aka referendum lazima.My only beef with Aukot is unreasonable anti graft proposal.. hearing and determination of cases in 1 month is hard but not impossible.But yes giving real teeth to Auditor General by demanding clean audit from gov is a huge step forward.
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Try to be truthful however hard it may be. Reliance on naivete works for a brief moment - that moment when you expect people to pretend not to know what really happened... like the guy everyone knows is a night runner but since he is also the school headteacher, nobody dares speak but in whispers.
IEBC had no repository of signatures to cross check and verify "forgeries". The so called signature is not a standard writing as has been presented in the media. You can sign different things on different documents as many times as you wish. It becomes an issue the moment is it doubted. Then the burden of proof of forgery is upon the accuser. That is why in the past we had the so called hand writing experts to determine NOT is the signature resembles "your signature", but if you wrote / signed it. I hope you can tell the difference.
I informed you that I would be willing to offer you proof of IEBC bias. Instead of making use of the generous offer you have returned to the usual rut to rant about OKOA Kenya and repeat Isaac Hassan's falsehoods. Be modest Pundit because I can see you are heading where many of us have already been. Your man wants to take power from the Kikuyu and the Kenyatta Family and cause the Family to violate many oaths and promises and understandings entered in to many many years before he (Ruto) was born. He better have people calmer than you around him.
We lost because Raila just can't follow advice and he has a fatal personal insecurity and an overbearing wife. Atleast Ruto has beaten his in to total submission
If Ruto supports this - 24 is more than shoe-in - but I think this one will get in with 40 out 47 counties. The elected MCAs are being elevated to MPs. Who on their right mind will vote no. Maybe the 3 or 4 counties of Luo Nyanza who are Raila slaves.
Okoa kenya forced Safaricom to remove the names of people from M-pesa book. Their fraudulent signature collection was brazen. And still when IEBC ran the verification...IEBC received a total of 1,633,577 signatures but its report following the verification process had a total of 891,598 signatures which is below the threshold of one million votes required for a referendum.
Turkana Boy - involved IEBC throughout the process - and went on to collect clean signatures.
I have not counted possible supporting counties.
Note that you are as usual being disingenuous. OKOA Kenya did not fail to collect enough signatures. The IEBC subjected the signatures to a vindictive exercise whose objective was to fail it. It is one of the reasons I hope God will forgive Isaac Hassan because a mere mortal like me lacks the capacity to even contemplate forgiving a fraction of that man's sins.
If you need proof of the bias feel free to ask.
For the record I neither support BBI or PMI. I think we have a good constitution which can only get better if it is implemented in letter and spirit.
Uhuru Kenyatta has basically sought to OPPOSE and LIMIT the constitution rather than support and facilitate it. No President has violated the constitution as frequently as Uhuru. His violations are DELIBERATE.
Moi was a bloody despot but he took care to change or amend laws rather than break them. He would amend laws to grant himself powers to do what the previous law denied him. Uhuru simply breaks the law. That is the problem NOT the current constitution
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How Pundit? Educate me. Uhuru was not president at the effective date was he?
The Moi precedent frees Uhuru. The clause barring him would have been repealed and succeeded b a new one providing for a 7 year Presidency. How would you ban him from running? He doesnt have to murder anyone to run. You will run to the supreme court and it will rule in his favor game over
Kibaki clauses apply to Uhuru. Uhuru has to murder a lot of people to run again. It will not be pretty. Let him not even try.
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8) 8) 8)
How Pundit? Educate me. Uhuru was not president at the effective date was he?
The Moi precedent frees Uhuru. The clause barring him would have been repealed and succeeded b a new one providing for a 7 year Presidency. How would you ban him from running? He doesnt have to murder anyone to run. You will run to the supreme court and it will rule in his favor game over
Kibaki clauses apply to Uhuru. Uhuru has to murder a lot of people to run again. It will not be pretty. Let him not even try.
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Uhuru has served as president for two terms.That clause will remain.The new 7yr clause non renewable term exclude him...by virtue of the old term limit not being repealed.
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This one is good to go.MCA are already salivating on it https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001334799/referendum-push-to-test-party-loyalty
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Aukot punguza mzigo is unstoppable. This one will go 47-Nil. Blue Band Initiative better hurry with their "Too Young to Retire" UhuRao bill
In North Rift, some MCAs have said that the Punguza Mzigo bill favours them and if passed would strengthen devolution to spur economic development at the grassroots.
Cheptiret/Kipchamo MCA Gilbert Tenai, and a member of national governing council of County Assembly’s Forum (CAF), said the bill is in favour of MCAs as far as devolution is concerned.
“We will be holding an election for CAF chair and secretary-general on Friday in Nairobi and thereafter make a decision of 47 county assemblies whether to support or reject the bill,” said Tenai who described the Bill as a good proposal.
Uasin Gishu County Assembly Minority leader Ali Ramadhan (Kiplombe) said the proposed bill is ‘a good way forward for Kenyans as it will save more funds for development’ and he will support it.
Nandi County Assembly Majority leader David Koech said the proposed bill is ‘Mwananchi-oriented’ and said that although he is still internalising the proposals, he is in support.
Uasin Gishu Majority Leader Josephat Lowoi said they are yet to know the motive and spirit behind the Bill.
In Kericho, Majority Leader Hezron Kipngeno said members will fully support the bill when it comes to the floor of the house since it proposes increased revenue allocation to counties from 15 to 35 per cent of the last audited accounts.
Nakuru Majority Leader Moses Ndung'u said they were yet to meet and take a stand on the Bill.
Baringo Majority Leader Lawi Kipchumba said he supports the proposals contained in the bill but could not say the same for other members.
This is after Aukot’s ‘Punguza Mizigo’ Bill received positive reception in Homa Bay County Assembly.The Majority Leader Walter Muok said they will support the Bill.Muok said the Bill empowers devolution which is the key reason why Kenyans moved from the old constitution in 2010.Muok is satisfied with a proposal in the Bill which allows the creation of ward development fund and addition from 15 to 35 per cent of funds which the National Government gives county governments.
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I support more devolution - 45% not 35%.
I'd go for even more than that. Consider the ills that bedevil the country. Corruption is a leading one. Trying to fix it by starting at the national level will always be tough, as long as the voters see things in terms of "our man stealing for us (never mind that they never get to eat as well) and swallow "money has been poured to finish our people" lines at even the weakest attempts at prosecution. People might think some more if the theft is not in far-away Nairobi but right next door (by the local "our" man). Same with delivery of services: make "local" as much as possible, so that people have mostly themselves and their local "leaders" to blame for failures. Etc.
CORD could not get 1M signatures because of Jubilee poodle Isaack Hassan - not copying from M-Pesa which was Ruto and Moses Kuria propaganda.
True. They seemed to not have carried out some checks, but the bigger issue was the one you mention. Still, it was just another example---as with the "boycott" and the "inauguration"---of Raila's failure (and possibly inability) to think things through: with the IEBC as it was, he was never going to get anywhere. Yet he persisted---with a huge waste of time, effort, and money---when, instead, he should have been focusing on getting properly organized for the next elections.
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Punguza mzigo should also include a requirement to only pay pensions to MPs who have served a cumulative 20 years at a minimum.
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Punguza mzigo should also include a requirement to only pay pensions to MPs who have served a cumulative 20 years at a minimum.
Why pension? MP is a part-time job - they have their private businesses and there is nothing like conflict of interest. The .35% budget cap is good enough. I see them more as commissioners.