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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 12:31:49 PM

Title: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 12:31:49 PM
All are running away from Pundit's "results". They are unable to explain them and see what a whole president writes:

(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Uhuru-Affidavit.jpg)
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 12:36:11 PM
Heard Uhuru files 8 replying affidavits, which we can see them. But I'm more interested in IEBC's
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Kadame7 on August 25, 2017, 12:37:44 PM
Hehehe...to be fair, it is 100% certain he did not draft that himself. Merely signed it.

Intriguing, that line of argument: makes me want to make the time to read all those petition documents.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 12:44:21 PM
Its a gift to NASA. I hope they use it to their advantage. Ahmednasir is good at arguing case citing authorities and making judges look small. But he cannot device a strategy to respond to matters. They had a firm - him, Isaack Hassan and Abdikadir. Issack hassan would arrange for the bribes, Abdikadir would deliver and Mullah would go to court and make sure the recipient of the bribe knew he had the tape.

Hehehe...to be fair, it is 100% certain he did not draft that himself. Merely signed it.

Intriguing, that line of argument: makes me want to make the time to read all those petition documents.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 12:50:59 PM
IEBC immediately "corrected" the error and produced another form. Remember the results announced at the constituency are "final" as says Uhuru!

Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Kadame7 on August 25, 2017, 12:59:45 PM
Its a gift to NASA. I hope they use it to their advantage. Ahmednasir is good at arguing case citing authorities and making judges look small. But he cannot device a strategy to respond to matters. They had a firm - him, Isaack Hassan and Abdikadir. Issack hassan would arrange for the bribes, Abdikadir would deliver and Mullah would go to court and make sure the recipient of the bribe knew he had the tape.

Hehehe...to be fair, it is 100% certain he did not draft that himself. Merely signed it.

Intriguing, that line of argument: makes me want to make the time to read all those petition documents.
Use it to their advantage? Please don't raise your hopes. The SCOK will not change anything. I see the petition as NASA's chance to explain to its own base that the results were not clean. But I would not advise any humans whose well-being I mildly cared for to waste their hopes on this petition. If lawyers and others are getting harassed why would anyone expect an individual human being in the form of a judge to risk it? I know I wouldn't. At most I'd recuse myself. In fact I told my very hopeful mom to completely forget it. I will say the same to anyone on these boards who wanted Jubilee out. I don't know what way there is going forward but this petition is not gonna be it.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
Only NASA are having a problem with commonsensical explanation and expectation. The key-in data was always provisional. The final results were those declare at polling station as form 34A. That is what Maina Kia got in Court of Appeal.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 01:04:51 PM
You need to read section 38 of election act again and again; even if results are declared in an exercise book; as long as they were valid; hakuna maneno hapo.
IEBC immediately "corrected" the error and produced another form. Remember the results announced at the constituency are "final" as says Uhuru!

Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 01:11:21 PM
Only NASA are having a problem with commonsensical explanation and expectation. The key-in data was always provisional. The final results were those declare at polling station as form 34A. That is what Maina Kia got in Court of Appeal.

That's what Mutula Kilonzo is saying.


And that's what IEBC said well before the elections.
?s=09


I think pursuing the portal angle is an act of desperation.

Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 01:26:57 PM
Yeap everyone knew it. When folks lose an election and their mind in the process who do you blame?
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on August 25, 2017, 01:46:32 PM
Only NASA are having a problem with commonsensical explanation and expectation. The key-in data was always provisional. The final results were those declare at polling station as form 34A. That is what Maina Kia got in Court of Appeal.

Form 34A underpins the final result.  There is no legal definition or justification for this thing you call provisional results.  The portal's main role was to share Forms 34A with the public.  Without including that information IEBC were not supposed to transmit anything.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 01:53:37 PM
And how is that a problem? How is having a extra-layer of control a problem?  Form 34As were uploaded to public portal. And IEBC went further and asked their staff to send statistics via KEMS systems - which would work with 2G network  - which further enhance transparency and accountability.
Form 34A underpins the final result.  There is no legal definition or justification for this thing you call provisional results.  The portal's main role was to share Forms 34A with the public.  Without including that information IEBC were not supposed to transmit anything.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on August 25, 2017, 02:06:51 PM
And how is that a problem? How is having a extra-layer of control a problem?  Form 34As were uploaded to public portal. And IEBC went further and asked their staff to send statistics via KEMS systems - which would work with 2G network  - which further enhance transparency and accountability.
Form 34A underpins the final result.  There is no legal definition or justification for this thing you call provisional results.  The portal's main role was to share Forms 34A with the public.  Without including that information IEBC were not supposed to transmit anything.

The so called extra layer was the only layer for hours.  There were no forms.  And when they eventually materialized, they were on a different web page, in a format that was useless for verification purposes.

The IEBC was transmitting data and results that were not verifiable.  The legal expectation is that the result be verifiable on the spot.  Not at some later time and date.  That standard was not met.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 02:40:53 PM
vooke

Taking someone's words out of context and using them to support what he was in effect opposing is worse than forgery. Now read your favorite tweet after reading this one:

what he means therefore:
The joint select Committee was aware that figures were subject to alterations & or amendments. [to prevent that mischief from happening again] We deliberately enacted law to ensure IEBC transmitted & published forms of results for all elections to avoid the current impasse. This impasse in wholly unnecessary.[/b]

I hope this wean you of the habit of posting and reposting something that in effect opposes what you are trying to state.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 02:54:20 PM
If you need some extra tuition I would be glad to help. Your skull has proved impervious to the absorption of a simple fact that PROVISIONAL RESULTS were abolished! I have asked you to produce any legal basis for this but you have not. That has not stopped you from singing the gospel of provisional results. Why?

Because you continue to refuse to READ the verdict of the Court of Appeal! But that notwithstanding you continue to pretend to be an expert on elections - with all this ignorance and stupidity!

Only NASA are having a problem with commonsensical explanation and expectation. The key-in data was always provisional. The final results were those declare at polling station as form 34A. That is what Maina Kia got in Court of Appeal.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 02:56:41 PM
What part of "section 38" should I read and how does it relate to this.
You need to read section 38 of election act again and again; even if results are declared in an exercise book; as long as they were valid; hakuna maneno hapo.
(http://omollosview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/elections-act.jpg)
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 03:02:08 PM
Both systems are still up. I don't know what you mean only for hours. And by format - what did you want? They were scanned images! You wanted IEBC to OCR for you? Isn't why they added the key-in data.

Eti verifiable on spot :) that a new legal standard. Verifiable mean whatever method you use (KIEMS, manual ballot in the boxes, key-in data, scanned forms, real paper forms) you'll arrive at the same conclusion that Uhuru beat Raila by 1.5M votes. A true dog beating.


The so called extra layer was the only layer for hours.  There were no forms.  And when they eventually materialized, they were on a different web page, in a format that was useless for verification purposes.

The IEBC was transmitting data and results that were not verifiable.  The legal expectation is that the result be verifiable on the spot.  Not at some later time and date.  That standard was not met.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 03:02:56 PM
There was a total of ONE form 34Bs uploaded by the time Uhuru was being declared winner.
And how is that a problem? How is having a extra-layer of control a problem?  Form 34As were uploaded to public portal. And IEBC went further and asked their staff to send statistics via KEMS systems - which would work with 2G network  - which further enhance transparency and accountability.
Form 34A underpins the final result.  There is no legal definition or justification for this thing you call provisional results.  The portal's main role was to share Forms 34A with the public.  Without including that information IEBC were not supposed to transmit anything.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 03:06:53 PM
Pundit

are you writing about what you know or what you want us to believe?

The issues you are trying ti fudge are well known, established and largely settled. There are a million facts, events, etc supporting the contrary of what you are saying so even the IEBC could not manage to deny.

You are just making a bigger fool of yourself. Let Termie waste his time on proving what even a monkey like Itumbi would not waste time contesting. They have moved on and are using other creative ways of explaining the things you are trying to sanitize.

Both systems are still up. I don't know what you mean only for hours. And by format - what did you want? They were scanned images! You wanted IEBC to OCR for you? Isn't why they added the key-in data.

Eti verifiable on spot :) that a new legal standard. Verifiable mean whatever method you use (KIEMS, manual ballot in the boxes, key-in data, scanned forms, real paper forms) you'll arrive at the same conclusion that Uhuru beat Raila by 1.5M votes. A true dog beating.


The so called extra layer was the only layer for hours.  There were no forms.  And when they eventually materialized, they were on a different web page, in a format that was useless for verification purposes.

The IEBC was transmitting data and results that were not verifiable.  The legal expectation is that the result be verifiable on the spot.  Not at some later time and date.  That standard was not met.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 03:08:09 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHUvngOXgAM1I3C.jpg)
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 03:58:40 PM
vooke

Taking someone's words out of context and using them to support what he was in effect opposing is worse than forgery. Now read your favorite tweet after reading this one:

what he means therefore:
The joint select Committee was aware that figures were subject to alterations & or amendments. [to prevent that mischief from happening again] We deliberately enacted law to ensure IEBC transmitted & published forms of results for all elections to avoid the current impasse. This impasse in wholly unnecessary.[/b]

I hope this wean you of the habit of posting and reposting something that in effect opposes what you are trying to state.

That's your spin. He was responding to claims that the portal results had errors
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 04:03:33 PM
If you need some extra tuition I would be glad to help. Your skull has proved impervious to the absorption of a simple fact that PROVISIONAL RESULTS were abolished! I have asked you to produce any legal basis for this but you have not. That has not stopped you from singing the gospel of provisional results. Why?

Because you continue to refuse to READ the verdict of the Court of Appeal! But that notwithstanding you continue to pretend to be an expert on elections - with all this ignorance and stupidity!

Only NASA are having a problem with commonsensical explanation and expectation. The key-in data was always provisional. The final results were those declare at polling station as form 34A. That is what Maina Kia got in Court of Appeal.

There are no provisional results, but final results arrived in two formats; scanned 34A and keyed-in results from 34A. It was agreed that in case of any discrepancy, 34A was the arbiter.


Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: bryan275 on August 25, 2017, 05:10:56 PM
Why did the Iebc bother to beam the result as they came in?  Especially if it had no bearing on the real final tally?  Hu ni utoto sana.  The iebc thought that their dodgy  live results would be accepted as final and are only engaging in damage control after getting caught faking the result.  They're making it up as they go along.  Iebc=jubilee=SCoK.  With the sole motive of defeating the voice of Kenya expressed through the ballot.

Divorce Now!
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on August 25, 2017, 05:40:25 PM
Why did the Iebc bother to beam the result as they came in?  Especially if it had no bearing on the real final tally?  Hu ni utoto sana.  The iebc thought that their dodgy  live results would be accepted as final and are only engaging in damage control after getting caught faking the result.  They're making it up as they go along.  Iebc=jubilee=SCoK.  With the sole motive of defeating the voice of Kenya expressed through the ballot.

Divorce Now!

I have mentioned this before.  The jubilant will declare the electronic transmission irrelevant or relevant depending on whether it supports or puts into question their preferred outcome.  I am no longer even sure they understand why electronic transmission was required in the first place. 

With Forms 34A scans, there was actually no need to text the data.  If they couldn't scan and send the form, they could simply have held onto the information.  They had 7 days. 

The raw forms would have been dumped online in the order they came, in a list(not a fancy looking but useless page where you need to guess what may or may not be there), and people would be free to make up the tallies as they came in.  Texting in so-called provisional data that everyone agrees is not official, and then tallying it to show an outcome just muddies the process.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 06:41:48 PM
I am sure you know I am not trying to convince you - that is a job I stopped doing years ago. It is up to those receiving your propaganda to get the context and compare with your interpretation of one of the tweets sent within seconds of each other, discussing the same issue.

vooke

Taking someone's words out of context and using them to support what he was in effect opposing is worse than forgery. Now read your favorite tweet after reading this one:
what he means therefore:
The joint select Committee was aware that figures were subject to alterations & or amendments. [to prevent that mischief from happening again] We deliberately enacted law to ensure IEBC transmitted & published forms of results for all elections to avoid the current impasse. This impasse in wholly unnecessary.[/b]

I hope this wean you of the habit of posting and reposting something that in effect opposes what you are trying to state.

That's your spin. He was responding to claims that the portal results had errors
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 07:00:16 PM
Why did the Iebc bother to beam the result as they came in?  Especially if it had no bearing on the real final tally?  Hu ni utoto sana.  The iebc thought that their dodgy  live results would be accepted as final and are only engaging in damage control after getting caught faking the result.  They're making it up as they go along.  Iebc=jubilee=SCoK.  With the sole motive of defeating the voice of Kenya expressed through the ballot.

Divorce Now!

Divorce yesterday.
Think about it. Results declaration is at Constituency and final. This means National tallying center had no job to do other than wait for Constituency tallying centers to send in their 34B and make a declaration.

But tallying at Constituency is tedious and time consuming. So the legislators agreed IEBC should release results from the polling stations even as they await the forms 34B Reduces anxiety.

Results from the polling stations were to be sent in keyed in forms and scans. Keyed in probably saved time it takes to beam these on the portal. That's the ONLY reason I can guess for keying in what's already contained in 34As.

But this carries a risk of data entry errors. IEBC anticipates this and arrives at a consensus; scans of 34A are final arbiter should there be any discrepancy. Makes tons of sense to me instead of
1. Rejecting results where there is discrepancy
2. Randomly picking either of the two results as final


In any case 34 is final in law and not any extract from it.

There were variances of course, and the fact that the final results were derived from 34A and not keyed in results essentially makes the portal/keyed-in results provisional.

But the variances were negligible
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: RV Pundit on August 25, 2017, 07:05:55 PM
Common sense vooke is no longer common
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 07:06:23 PM
I am sure you know I am not trying to convince you - that is a job I stopped doing years ago. It is up to those receiving your propaganda to get the context and compare with your interpretation of one of the tweets sent within seconds of each other, discussing the same issue.

vooke

Taking someone's words out of context and using them to support what he was in effect opposing is worse than forgery. Now read your favorite tweet after reading this one:
what he means therefore:
The joint select Committee was aware that figures were subject to alterations & or amendments. [to prevent that mischief from happening again] We deliberately enacted law to ensure IEBC transmitted & published forms of results for all elections to avoid the current impasse. This impasse in wholly unnecessary.[/b]

I hope this wean you of the habit of posting and reposting something that in effect opposes what you are trying to state.

That's your spin. He was responding to claims that the portal results had errors

Omorlo, I'm sorry I misread him. You are right, I'm wrong.
So the 'impasse' was declaration of results without forms 34B and A. He wondered why IEBC was not releasing these. Ok.

Asante.


But IEBC anticipated discrepancies between keyed-in results and forms 34A,and issued a statement to this effect days to the election. Most you can hang IEBC for is streaming unverified results which had ZERO bearing on forms 34B,and C. At most,IEBC will walk away with some mild scolding for not verifying.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: Omollo on August 25, 2017, 09:29:18 PM
That is why I respect you. You follow the 10 rules of argumentation.

Omorlo, I'm sorry I misread him. You are right, I'm wrong.
So the 'impasse' was declaration of results without forms 34B and A. He wondered why IEBC was not releasing these. Ok.

Asante.


But IEBC anticipated discrepancies between keyed-in results and forms 34A,and issued a statement to this effect days to the election. Most you can hang IEBC for is streaming unverified results which had ZERO bearing on forms 34B,and C. At most,IEBC will walk away with some mild scolding for not verifying.
Title: Re: Uhuru Says Portal Showed Statistics NOT Results
Post by: vooke on August 25, 2017, 10:07:43 PM
IEBC too has said there were no results on the portal


Kassait's affidavit
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/REPLYING%20AFFIDAVIT_IMMACULATE%20KASSAIT.pdf
Quote
76. THAT Paragraph 75 is denied and the Petitioners put to strict proof thereof. The online statistics and those projected at the National Tallying Centre are not a representation of the results.

I'd very much love to hear what they were not what they were not  :lolz: