Nipate

Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:18:43 PM

Title: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:18:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDp9HTtXsAAnqoE.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDp9aygW0AU3mZM.jpg)
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:20:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDpQmRYWAAAJFLo.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDpQojGWsAI4QBq.jpg)
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:21:57 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDpQqUOW0AA9WXa.jpg)
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:22:08 PM
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 05:22:38 PM
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 06:24:21 PM
Pundit please meet your spokesman:

Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 06:26:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDqJpmGXgAAUzYD.jpg)
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: patel on July 01, 2017, 07:04:29 PM
Very impressive. ..win or lose isack Ruto has proved he is a political heavyweight on the right side of history. Why is Uhuruto opposed to 45% of the revenue to be devolved. Anyone voting for jubilee is voting against their interest unless you are a thief
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 01, 2017, 07:59:43 PM
He is losing - that is for sure - he spend a fortune to ferry people.
Very impressive. ..win or lose isack Ruto has proved he is a political heavyweight on the right side of history. Why is Uhuruto opposed to 45% of the revenue to be devolved. Anyone voting for jubilee is voting against their interest unless you are a thief
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 08:02:24 PM
He is losing - that is for sure - he spend a fortune to ferry people.
Very impressive. ..win or lose isack Ruto has proved he is a political heavyweight on the right side of history. Why is Uhuruto opposed to 45% of the revenue to be devolved. Anyone voting for jubilee is voting against their interest unless you are a thief

Bwana Pundit

How do people attending Jubilee rallies in Bomet town come from your home in Mogogo. Konoin, Kapkatet (tengecha) and so on?

Respect your enemy or get humiliated.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 01, 2017, 08:10:19 PM
You know Isaac is a fool who spend county money to campaign for his political activities against WSR for 5yrs - the amount of money he dishes daily is millions. I mean Mois have billions of shs but have known when to stop spending. Here is someone who has spend all devolved money on politics against national gov for 5yrs and has nothing on ground - not even a ECD center - and you think Bomet people will reward him with another term - you got jokes.If he was smart - he would have kept a war chest because he'll spend next year in court  battling so many case - he is going broke - already many of his county officials are in jail.Obviously he thinls like Kones before him that he can leverage popolous kipsigis vote for personal gain -see how Kones duel with Biwwot ended. WSR is someone who replaced Wanjigis and is getting 10% consultancy fee for all projects...and in that short while...WSR is building 1.2B house in Moiben, has bought 4 hotels (iconic 680, Boulevard next to KBC, Flamingo in Mombasa in addition to Weston), thousands of acres in kenya and Uganda - name it - I mean you've got to be suicidal to take on WSR at that level.

Isaac is as stupid as Kones - and will end up as bankrupt - and jailed. Kipsigis are very smart people. Expect Raila to get nearly the same votes he got in 2013 - less than 10%. You know at time of Kones death - he was so bankrupte - he was depending on Joyce Laboso sister for upkeep. He got lots of money while serving as Moi powerful stat minister but instead of investing like Franklin or Biwwott..he squander it by doing what Isaac is doing ...ferrying people and feeding them daily.


Bwana Pundit

How do people attending Jubilee rallies in Bomet town come from your home in Mogogo. Konoin, Kapkatet (tengecha) and so on?

Respect your enemy or get humiliated.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 08:19:34 PM
Pundit

I hope Moon Ki will find time to decipher for you your statement. I can assure you it is most funny. You have beaten yourself.

As I wait for Moon Ki here are some questions:

1. If both Rutos are corrupt and thieves, why is one better than the other?
2. I get it: Isaac steals and dishes out the cash but your hero steals and skims on all contracts 10% which he keeps for himself! That in your view makes him a better man.

You see that is why I remain uneasy about Mudavadi in NASA and doubt if you have any principles remaining. I don't even know if you ever had any!

The reason we want to get rid of Uhuru and Ruto is exactly what you have described. He is corrupt, he is using the state to enrich himself contrary to the constitution and a raft of acts of parliament.

I can add for free if Isaac is into that, he will quickly find himself answering very tough questions. I am glad you are not in NASA because you are exactly what is wrong with Kenya.

You know Isaac is a fool who spend county money to campaign for his political activities against WSR for 5yrs - the amount of money he dishes daily is millions. I mean Mois have billions of shs but have known when to stop spending. Here is someone who has spend
all devolved money on politics against national gov for 5yrs and has nothing on ground - not even a ECD center - and you think Bomet people will reward him with another term - you got jokes.If he was smart - he would have kept a war chest because he'll spend next year in court  battling so many case - he is going broke - already many of his county officials are in jail.Obviously he things like Kones before him - who thought he could take Biwwot - that this is joke. It no joke. WSR is someone who replace Wanjigis and is getting 10% consultancy fee for all projects...and in that short while...WSR is building 1.2B house in Moiben, has bought 4 hotels (iconic 680, Boulevard, Flamingo in Mombasa), thousands of acres in kenya and Uganda - name it.

Isaac is as stupid as Kones - and will end up as bankrupt. Kipsigis are very smart people. Expect Raila to get nearly the same votes he got in 2013 - less than 10%.


Bwana Pundit

How do people attending Jubilee rallies in Bomet town come from your home in Mogogo. Konoin, Kapkatet (tengecha) and so on?

Respect your enemy or get humiliated.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 08:22:21 PM
Pundit

I also found something funny: You believe Ruto would not be elected because of his poor development record he will not be re-elected but you insist that Uhuru will be re-elected despite a worse record.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 01, 2017, 08:26:43 PM
All of them starting from your hero Raila are very very corrupt. The difference in my view is who steals but deliver. Sonko and Kidero are thieves but Sonko shares his loot - so he is shoe-in in Nairobi. Your hero in Mombasa is worse - he is a corrupt drug dealer - but he spend it wisely politically.So quit this nonsense. All of our politicians are corrupt - others are worse - drug dealers - warlords - name any vice.

I don't mind WSR taking his 5-10% as long as he delivers SGR/electricity/roads - It the same way I don't mind bribing cops - I just call it facilitation fees. In the US or even in our company we can call them lobbyist or consultancy or whatever....politics everywhere is very corrupt. This is about power & patronage.

Politicians like Isaac don't go far in politics..because they don't understands that while you can bribe people with money...you actually need to deliver on tangible projects that changes people lives. If you think you can hop into a chopper and spray money - and get elected - you won't go far - ask Livondo. You have to provide leadership and people will understand that 10% is for your hardwork.

Isaac is recently very broke politician who got 4B every year and thought he was ready to take WSR. It tragic mistake on his part. He is going to get his balls crashed literally. He didn't even steal smartly because he used his sons, sisters and brother to steal all 4B every year.

Bomet next governor is Joyce. Isaac will be in prison soon or broke soon. I doubt he has enough money to pay Ahmednassir a retainer of say 10m per month.

I am in no doubt that WSR has made fortune of more than 50B-100B the last 5yrs. I think he replaced Wanjigi & others as the main facilitator of GoK supplies & contracting...he basically spend every morning working the phones and making sure he get the cream. That is how Biwott made his money as mr 10%. Otherwise how do you explain WSR buying this 680, Boulevard, 1,000 acres with 1.2B house in construction, Flamingo in Mombasa, completing Weston hotel & buying out Thomas Barnados next door - plus land ((2,700 acres in Transmara) all over including in Uganda.
(http://venasnews.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/680-hotel.jpg)

Pundit

I hope Moon Ki will find time to decipher for you your statement. I can assure you it is most funny. You have beaten yourself.

As I wait for Moon Ki here are some questions:

1. If both Rutos are corrupt and thieves, why is one better than the other?
2. I get it: Isaac steals and dishes out the cash but your hero steals and skims on all contracts 10% which he keeps for himself! That in your view makes him a better man.

You see that is why I remain uneasy about Mudavadi in NASA and doubt if you have any principles remaining. I don't even know if you ever had any!

The reason we want to get rid of Uhuru and Ruto is exactly what you have described. He is corrupt, he is using the state to enrich himself contrary to the constitution and a raft of acts of parliament.

I can add for free if Isaac is into that, he will quickly find himself answering very tough questions. I am glad you are not in NASA because you are exactly what is wrong with Kenya.

Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 08:36:44 PM
I think you have not bothered to pay attention to Isaac's development record.

I once had an MP I dismissed out of hand but the people did not share my views. Checking his record, I would say he has a pretty good record.


Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 08:40:32 PM
Pundit

Ruto and Uhuru shared out the Eurobond. That is how Ruto is buying all those things. The rest is simple skimming not sufficient for such purchases but good enough for political payoffs.

Ruto is also skimming from campaign funds. He has refused to use his own money outside of his core interests.

As for his wealth, I pity him.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 01, 2017, 08:42:03 PM
Dude I come from Bomet county - if you know my online record - you won't bother to ask for evidence. Unlike you I am not pathological liar becuase I know come a months time - the truth will be out there. Just wait for 8.8. It's a month to go.

Isaac has done nothing. You know what he did in my place. There was old water project - my dad and others did in 1980s -- there was a big tank constructed those days - he came at night (his staff ) poured water and the following day he opened the tank. Total allocated 36M - work on ground - NOTHING. I mean even pipping is long rusted and no water has flow since.
(https://scontent.fnbo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195371_996767793790375_6419856665888517401_n.jpg?oh=85b5f080a681355409f7b17d6903cd68&oe=59C4A2E7)

This was after kericho senate election - when KANU & his CCM - were beaten like Isukuti despite him wasting millions of money against Gok Machinery.  He was totally panicked and he tried looking for projects to launch - and there was nothing. In my neighbouring location - he re-launched an old cattle DIP -  and it turned out despite allocating millions - county only build a pit latrine. To make matters worse..the last time any cattle dip was used in Konoin was 1980s..nobody needs it...people have 1-2 dairy cows and 90% of the land is tea now.
(http://safarionline.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/RAILA.png)

After a month - he realized there was nothing to launch or re-launch. Tried sponsoring Kones and Joyce beat him like Isukuti still. He took a double chance and joined NASA...hoping he'll get something out of NASA.


I think you have not bothered to pay attention to Isaac's development record.

I once had an MP I dismissed out of hand but the people did not share my views. Checking his record, I would say he has a pretty good record.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 01, 2017, 08:55:05 PM
Eurobond is like literally stealing from GOK Vaults. That is moronic and nobody would do that. WSR/Uhuru simply replaced Wanjigis and are getting 5-10% from Chinese contractors.
Pundit

Ruto and Uhuru shared out the Eurobond. That is how Ruto is buying all those things. The rest is simple skimming not sufficient for such purchases but good enough for political payoffs.

Ruto is also skimming from campaign funds. He has refused to use his own money outside of his core interests.

As for his wealth, I pity him.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Nefertiti on July 01, 2017, 10:57:45 PM
Where does Uhuruto get the billions to bribe parties and MPs to fold and join Jubilee? That must be a very big load of money. 5-10% is not sufficient for themselves and that work.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 01, 2017, 11:14:10 PM
I choose to disagree with you. I know our enemy very well. We know their sources.


Eurobond is like literally stealing from GOK Vaults. That is moronic and nobody would do that. WSR/Uhuru simply replaced Wanjigis and are getting 5-10% from Chinese contractors.
Pundit

Ruto and Uhuru shared out the Eurobond. That is how Ruto is buying all those things. The rest is simple skimming not sufficient for such purchases but good enough for political payoffs.

Ruto is also skimming from campaign funds. He has refused to use his own money outside of his core interests.

As for his wealth, I pity him.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 01, 2017, 11:35:36 PM
I choose to disagree with you. I know our enemy very well. We know their sources.


Eurobond is like literally stealing from GOK Vaults. That is moronic and nobody would do that. WSR/Uhuru simply replaced Wanjigis and are getting 5-10% from Chinese contractors.
Pundit

Ruto and Uhuru shared out the Eurobond. That is how Ruto is buying all those things. The rest is simple skimming not sufficient for such purchases but good enough for political payoffs.

Ruto is also skimming from campaign funds. He has refused to use his own money outside of his core interests.

As for his wealth, I pity him.

The Auditor General has no idea where the money went.  I doubt if any jubilant is wired to be receptive of the idea that the money just vanished, no matter how much evidence you throw at them.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 02, 2017, 12:46:39 AM
Pundit is full of contradictions.  If this was Jubilee crowd in ukambani or Nasa stronghold he would not care how they got to the rally.  He said  that all jubilee is peeling votes from Ukambani because of SGR but when we say that Nasa may be peeling votes in Bomet because of change then he reverts to the tribal voting.  Its like the only thing Kenyans understand is tribe,  For years millions of Kenyans have been able to vote for things like multi-party, a new Katiba, devolution, democracy, change.  It is true that the opposition left has not been able to attain the presidency but that does not mean they do not understand the issues afflicting Kenya and are incapable of voting for change.  Kenyans have done that and that is why I believe that they can do it as they did in 2002 to get rid of Moi.  Not in the same numbers but Ouru and Ruto can be beat on the issue of change.  The tribal patterns of the votes can be carefully be put together later by those who can only see Kenyans through the prism of tribe.

Pundit

I hope Moon Ki will find time to decipher for you your statement. I can assure you it is most funny. You have beaten yourself.

As I wait for Moon Ki here are some questions:

1. If both Rutos are corrupt and thieves, why is one better than the other?
2. I get it: Isaac steals and dishes out the cash but your hero steals and skims on all contracts 10% which he keeps for himself! That in your view makes him a better man.

You see that is why I remain uneasy about Mudavadi in NASA and doubt if you have any principles remaining. I don't even know if you ever had any!

The reason we want to get rid of Uhuru and Ruto is exactly what you have described. He is corrupt, he is using the state to enrich himself contrary to the constitution and a raft of acts of parliament.

I can add for free if Isaac is into that, he will quickly find himself answering very tough questions. I am glad you are not in NASA because you are exactly what is wrong with Kenya.

You know Isaac is a fool who spend county money to campaign for his political activities against WSR for 5yrs - the amount of money he dishes daily is millions. I mean Mois have billions of shs but have known when to stop spending. Here is someone who has spend
all devolved money on politics against national gov for 5yrs and has nothing on ground - not even a ECD center - and you think Bomet people will reward him with another term - you got jokes.If he was smart - he would have kept a war chest because he'll spend next year in court  battling so many case - he is going broke - already many of his county officials are in jail.Obviously he things like Kones before him - who thought he could take Biwwot - that this is joke. It no joke. WSR is someone who replace Wanjigis and is getting 10% consultancy fee for all projects...and in that short while...WSR is building 1.2B house in Moiben, has bought 4 hotels (iconic 680, Boulevard, Flamingo in Mombasa), thousands of acres in kenya and Uganda - name it.

Isaac is as stupid as Kones - and will end up as bankrupt. Kipsigis are very smart people. Expect Raila to get nearly the same votes he got in 2013 - less than 10%.


Bwana Pundit

How do people attending Jubilee rallies in Bomet town come from your home in Mogogo. Konoin, Kapkatet (tengecha) and so on?

Respect your enemy or get humiliated.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: hk on July 02, 2017, 09:56:35 AM
Very impressive. ..win or lose isack Ruto has proved he is a political heavyweight on the right side of history. Why is Uhuruto opposed to 45% of the revenue to be devolved. Anyone voting for jubilee is voting against their interest unless you are a thief
We aren't against devolution actually we'd like 50% to be devolved but we dont want the current formula? I know for a fact when jubilee wins they'll change the formula of sharing funds to more federalism. That's 8% of vat paid in a county to remain in the county. 5% of excise tax and in future half of all PAYE tax to remain in the county derived from. Counties will keep most of the taxes derived from their county. Currently devolved funds are like manna from national government. No wonder there's so much corruption at the county level. This doesn't need a referendum, again who's head of Commission on revenue allocation? 
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 02, 2017, 01:05:14 PM
I think it's too early for this - I'd give devolution as it is 10 more years - if you do that now - Nairobi will take nearly everything - followed by 4 major cities of Mombasa,Nakuru,Kisumu & Eldoret - leaving the rest of the country with nothing. CAR (Allocation commission) should figure out incentive to encourage counties to collect own funds...as of now..most counties half - budget is from own resources..but they rarely collect even 50% of those and where they collect it's siphoned out.

And of course EACC need to be unto counties like white on rice.

We aren't against devolution actually we'd like 50% to be devolved but we dont want the current formula? I know for a fact when jubilee wins they'll change the formula of sharing funds to more federalism. That's 8% of vat paid in a county to remain in the county. 5% of excise tax and in future half of all PAYE tax to remain in the county derived from. Counties will keep most of the taxes derived from their county. Currently devolved funds are like manna from national government. No wonder there's so much corruption at the county level. This doesn't need a referendum, again who's head of Commission on revenue allocation? 
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 02, 2017, 03:31:55 PM
HK

I would have asked you about what in the formula you object to then I realized I'd be wasting my time. When will your bigoted Kikuyu intelligentsia realize and internalize simple facts?

1. in the runup to the 2013 elections, Kikuyus (I use this very liberally in your case since you are a self decalred spokesman for Kikuyus) went after the Ligale Commission insisting that population be used to determine the number of constituencies. It was done and guess who lost? Kikuyus! RV and Western gained!
2. Then they demanded that size be taken in to consideration. Ask any Kikuyu woman and she will tell you they stopped minding size a long time ago ! But Ephraem Maina was not listening. So that was partzially indlcuded and a total of ZERO constituencies were added to central. RV and NEP gained. Maina and his cohorts demanded that size should be used after all.

Now we have the sharing formula.

I know many Kikuyus who wonder why on earth God decided to place oil in RV and not Central. They believe it is yet another snub from God after he deliberately allowed Jesus to be born in a cowshed in the Middle East instead of a nice 20 bedroom house in Central with a helicopter or two standing by to airlift Maria to the Gatundu Hospital!

1. Population: The Kikuyu population is dwindling while it is growing everywhere else in Kenya. So Kikuyus do not want a factor used The WORLD OVER to determine revenue sharing to be used or given Prominence!
2. The size of the constituency will give Central advantage after ALL the areas of Kenya
3. Marginalization: Need I state that all factors place it at the bottom behind Turkana, Nyanza, Coast, NEP etc???
4. Own revenue: If one is contributing a lot more than the others how then is that used in the distribution? Well they can keep most of their own money. Two things make Kikuyus shit in their pants:
a. With oil they need to steal from Turkanas, Keiyios and nandis, it would mean more of that cash remaining locally (remember the shetani tusi by Uhuru to Nanok?)
b. Not all Central counties contribute that much to the revenue and many are beaten by places like Kisumu! Something that hurts the well spread and internalized narrative of "laziness" etc If they keep most of their revenue, well, we end up with places like Kilifi, Mombasa, Kisumu keeping a lot and denying Kirinyaga, Laikipia, Nyandarua etc. The propaganda does not translate to a pleasant reality.

That therefore leads to topsyturvy reasoning where the ONLY avenue is to give a paltry 15% transfer as many functions as possible and withhold 85% of the revenue which you then dish out to places like Kiambu (20 billion for roads), Pay Coffee farmers debts, but insist Mombasa squatters pay up for their allocation of land!

Jubilee suffers from tribalism and selfishness an this is why it is coming down.
Very impressive. ..win or lose isack Ruto has proved he is a political heavyweight on the right side of history. Why is Uhuruto opposed to 45% of the revenue to be devolved. Anyone voting for jubilee is voting against their interest unless you are a thief
We aren't against devolution actually we'd like 50% to be devolved but we dont want the current formula? I know for a fact when jubilee wins they'll change the formula of sharing funds to more federalism. That's 8% of vat paid in a county to remain in the county. 5% of excise tax and in future half of all PAYE tax to remain in the county derived from. Counties will keep most of the taxes derived from their county. Currently devolved funds are like manna from national government. No wonder there's so much corruption at the county level. This doesn't need a referendum, again who's head of Commission on revenue allocation? 
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: hk on July 02, 2017, 04:35:27 PM
HK

I would have asked you about what in the formula you object to then I realized I'd be wasting my time. When will your bigoted Kikuyu intelligentsia realize and internalize simple facts?

1. in the runup to the 2013 elections, Kikuyus (I use this very liberally in your case since you are a self decalred spokesman for Kikuyus) went after the Ligale Commission insisting that population be used to determine the number of constituencies. It was done and guess who lost? Kikuyus! RV and Western gained!
2. Then they demanded that size be taken in to consideration. Ask any Kikuyu woman and she will tell you they stopped minding size a long time ago ! But Ephraem Maina was not listening. So that was partzially indlcuded and a total of ZERO constituencies were added to central. RV and NEP gained. Maina and his cohorts demanded that size should be used after all.

Now we have the sharing formula.

I know many Kikuyus who wonder why on earth God decided to place oil in RV and not Central. They believe it is yet another snub from God after he deliberately allowed Jesus to be born in a cowshed in the Middle East instead of a nice 20 bedroom house in Central with a helicopter or two standing by to airlift Maria to the Gatundu Hospital!

1. Population: The Kikuyu population is dwindling while it is growing everywhere else in Kenya. So Kikuyus do not want a factor used The WORLD OVER to determine revenue sharing to be used or given Prominence!
2. The size of the constituency will give Central advantage after ALL the areas of Kenya
3. Marginalization: Need I state that all factors place it at the bottom behind Turkana, Nyanza, Coast, NEP etc???
4. Own revenue: If one is contributing a lot more than the others how then is that used in the distribution? Well they can keep most of their own money. Two things make Kikuyus shit in their pants:
a. With oil they need to steal from Turkanas, Keiyios and nandis, it would mean more of that cash remaining locally (remember the shetani tusi by Uhuru to Nanok?)
b. Not all Central counties contribute that much to the revenue and many are beaten by places like Kisumu! Something that hurts the well spread and internalized narrative of "laziness" etc If they keep most of their revenue, well, we end up with places like Kilifi, Mombasa, Kisumu keeping a lot and denying Kirinyaga, Laikipia, Nyandarua etc. The propaganda does not translate to a pleasant reality.

That therefore leads to topsyturvy reasoning where the ONLY avenue is to give a paltry 15% transfer as many functions as possible and withhold 85% of the revenue which you then dish out to places like Kiambu (20 billion for roads), Pay Coffee farmers debts, but insist Mombasa squatters pay up for their allocation of land!

Jubilee suffers from tribalism and selfishness an this is why it is coming down.
What I suggested is federalism . And all those taxes suggested are what in many jurisdiction  would be local taxes. Kikuyu population isn't dwindling but growing at slower rate than other places, this is an indicator of level of development. Just like probably central has lower child mortality and has gender parity in education. So what if Kisumu get more revenue if they are producing it? They already gets more taxes from land rates than muranga or nyeri. As for oil I which we can adopt mineral laws like america, where landowners would have be the one to sell mining rights. That way the locals benefit.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 02, 2017, 04:38:23 PM
Revenue should be distributed evenly by population.   That was one of the motivating factors of devolution.  To get places like North Eastern among others to finally start moving.

@Omollo,

Central Kenya is underrepresented in terms of constituencies.  Nairobi is also in the same conundrum.  That is what I see when I look at the numbers.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 03, 2017, 01:01:51 AM
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 03, 2017, 01:23:39 AM
I have addressed that. Ephraim Maina and all the MPs came up with that argument, the numbers did not add up. In fact had the constitution not barred it, some constituencies would have gone!

The population growth is in RV, Western, Nairobi and Nyanza. Central is a declining population zone in Kenya. If Somali's were given their due, there is a chance more constituencies would appear there.

Revenue should be distributed evenly by population.   That was one of the motivating factors of devolution.  To get places like North Eastern among others to finally start moving.

@Omollo,

Central Kenya is underrepresented in terms of constituencies.  Nairobi is also in the same conundrum.  That is what I see when I look at the numbers.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 03, 2017, 05:57:21 PM
I have addressed that. Ephraim Maina and all the MPs came up with that argument, the numbers did not add up. In fact had the constitution not barred it, some constituencies would have gone!

The population growth is in RV, Western, Nairobi and Nyanza. Central is a declining population zone in Kenya. If Somali's were given their due, there is a chance more constituencies would appear there.

Revenue should be distributed evenly by population.   That was one of the motivating factors of devolution.  To get places like North Eastern among others to finally start moving.

@Omollo,

Central Kenya is underrepresented in terms of constituencies.  Nairobi is also in the same conundrum.  That is what I see when I look at the numbers.

Here is an attachment to the representation stats.

The Diaspora are overrepresented 15 times above national average.  Conversely Nairobi, Kiambu, Mombasa, Kirinyaga, Nakuru etc are underrepresented.  Nyandarua is more or less perfect.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 03, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
There was a factor - can't recall something like 145K persons per constituency

Check page 20 of this document:

[pdf]http://info.mzalendo.com/media_root/file_archive/Preliminary-Report_copy.pdf[/pdf]

I have addressed that. Ephraim Maina and all the MPs came up with that argument, the numbers did not add up. In fact had the constitution not barred it, some constituencies would have gone!

The population growth is in RV, Western, Nairobi and Nyanza. Central is a declining population zone in Kenya. If Somali's were given their due, there is a chance more constituencies would appear there.

Revenue should be distributed evenly by population.   That was one of the motivating factors of devolution.  To get places like North Eastern among others to finally start moving.

@Omollo,

Central Kenya is underrepresented in terms of constituencies.  Nairobi is also in the same conundrum.  That is what I see when I look at the numbers.

Here is an attachment to the representation stats.

The Diaspora are overrepresented 15 times above national average.  Conversely Nairobi, Kiambu, Mombasa, Kirinyaga, Nakuru etc are underrepresented.  Nyandarua is more or less perfect.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 03, 2017, 06:40:47 PM
There was a factor - can't recall something like 145K persons per constituency

Check page 20 of this document:

<a href="http://info.mzalendo.com/media_root/file_archive/Preliminary-Report_copy.pdf" target="_blank">http://info.mzalendo.com/media_root/file_archive/Preliminary-Report_copy.pdf</a>

I have addressed that. Ephraim Maina and all the MPs came up with that argument, the numbers did not add up. In fact had the constitution not barred it, some constituencies would have gone!

The population growth is in RV, Western, Nairobi and Nyanza. Central is a declining population zone in Kenya. If Somali's were given their due, there is a chance more constituencies would appear there.

Revenue should be distributed evenly by population.   That was one of the motivating factors of devolution.  To get places like North Eastern among others to finally start moving.

@Omollo,

Central Kenya is underrepresented in terms of constituencies.  Nairobi is also in the same conundrum.  That is what I see when I look at the numbers.

Here is an attachment to the representation stats.

The Diaspora are overrepresented 15 times above national average.  Conversely Nairobi, Kiambu, Mombasa, Kirinyaga, Nakuru etc are underrepresented.  Nyandarua is more or less perfect.

I am just using 67,162.41 as the expected number of voters per constituency.  That is what you would get with the current voter register.  There is a mix of counties that are definitely shafted and Kiambu, Kirinyaga, Murang'a, Laikipia, Meru are among the worst if you are just looking at raw representation.   Nairobi is doing very badly as well - the absolute worst.  Western is slightly overrepresented as is most of Kalenjin RV.  That is just the rough picture you get.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 03, 2017, 08:42:27 PM
Have you made a distinction between urban constituencies and Rural; included the area size and provided that no existing constituency shall be disbanded?

Plus use the census figures only not any other. People are told to pay attention to the census lakini wapi. The good thing is that it is still by far the one still carried out with some degree of reliability- despite cooking Luo figures.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: patel on July 03, 2017, 09:07:30 PM
You are dealing with a very conflicted fellow....One day tribal math, next day manifesto, next day development. Baghdad Bob input is only good for entertainment purpose
Pundit is full of contradictions.  If this was Jubilee crowd in ukambani or Nasa stronghold he would not care how they got to the rally.  He said  that all jubilee is peeling votes from Ukambani because of SGR but when we say that Nasa may be peeling votes in Bomet because of change then he reverts to the tribal voting.  Its like the only thing Kenyans understand is tribe,  For years millions of Kenyans have been able to vote for things like multi-party, a new Katiba, devolution, democracy, change.  It is true that the opposition left has not been able to attain the presidency but that does not mean they do not understand the issues afflicting Kenya and are incapable of voting for change.  Kenyans have done that and that is why I believe that they can do it as they did in 2002 to get rid of Moi.  Not in the same numbers but Ouru and Ruto can be beat on the issue of change.  The tribal patterns of the votes can be carefully be put together later by those who can only see Kenyans through the prism of tribe.

Pundit

I hope Moon Ki will find time to decipher for you your statement. I can assure you it is most funny. You have beaten yourself.

As I wait for Moon Ki here are some questions:

1. If both Rutos are corrupt and thieves, why is one better than the other?
2. I get it: Isaac steals and dishes out the cash but your hero steals and skims on all contracts 10% which he keeps for himself! That in your view makes him a better man.

You see that is why I remain uneasy about Mudavadi in NASA and doubt if you have any principles remaining. I don't even know if you ever had any!

The reason we want to get rid of Uhuru and Ruto is exactly what you have described. He is corrupt, he is using the state to enrich himself contrary to the constitution and a raft of acts of parliament.

I can add for free if Isaac is into that, he will quickly find himself answering very tough questions. I am glad you are not in NASA because you are exactly what is wrong with Kenya.

You know Isaac is a fool who spend county money to campaign for his political activities against WSR for 5yrs - the amount of money he dishes daily is millions. I mean Mois have billions of shs but have known when to stop spending. Here is someone who has spend
all devolved money on politics against national gov for 5yrs and has nothing on ground - not even a ECD center - and you think Bomet people will reward him with another term - you got jokes.If he was smart - he would have kept a war chest because he'll spend next year in court  battling so many case - he is going broke - already many of his county officials are in jail.Obviously he things like Kones before him - who thought he could take Biwwot - that this is joke. It no joke. WSR is someone who replace Wanjigis and is getting 10% consultancy fee for all projects...and in that short while...WSR is building 1.2B house in Moiben, has bought 4 hotels (iconic 680, Boulevard, Flamingo in Mombasa), thousands of acres in kenya and Uganda - name it.

Isaac is as stupid as Kones - and will end up as bankrupt. Kipsigis are very smart people. Expect Raila to get nearly the same votes he got in 2013 - less than 10%.


Bwana Pundit

How do people attending Jubilee rallies in Bomet town come from your home in Mogogo. Konoin, Kapkatet (tengecha) and so on?

Respect your enemy or get humiliated.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 03, 2017, 09:09:47 PM
All of them matters - including opinion polls - it just the weight I assign to each differs.
You are dealing with a very conflicted fellow....One day tribal math, next day manifesto, next day development. Baghdad Bob input is only good for entertainment purpose
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 03, 2017, 09:48:34 PM
Now that we have stipulated that all those factors matter, we can therefore have a debate on how much weight to assign each one of them.  When it comes to assigning weight, you must surely agree with me that there is no scientific way to accurately do that and therefore your guess is as good as mine.

All of them matters - including opinion polls - it just the weight I assign to each differs.
You are dealing with a very conflicted fellow....One day tribal math, next day manifesto, next day development. Baghdad Bob input is only good for entertainment purpose
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Nefertiti on July 03, 2017, 09:56:16 PM
The current electoral boundaries are well balanced - population, size, development. That is how RV and NEP got more MPs, while Nairobi can be said to be shortchanged, it's not. The current revenue formula is ok too, applying mostly the boundary formula not just population.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 04, 2017, 12:59:05 AM
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 04, 2017, 01:56:03 AM
HK

Boy you have a problem. You must be new to these matters and are grappling with what is acceptbale to your people.

Federalism? That is what Raila and Ruto proposed in 2004 and Kikuyus almost collectively burst their aortas! The condemnation lasted through the 2005 referendum.

Federalism or majimbo is what Uhuru killed in Naivasha aided by a rebelling ODM group led by Ruto.

Whatever method you choose is based on the false premise that Central produces more than the other areas and that we know is simply NOT true. As we head in to 2030s RV, Nyanza and Coast will produce more than Central for the simple reason that whatever "wealth" was extracted from the state and nothing local outside failing and heavily subsidized agriculture (coffee) earns anything.

You may use any euphemism you find pleasant about the population decline. The bottom line is there are fewer people being born in Central while there are more people being born elsewhere.

You are also free to look at it as a benefit. I may just remind you that that kind of went out of fashion when China found herself facing the same population structure as Italy thanks to its one child policy. Without massive investment in social programs, infrastructure, an end to corruption and above all DEMOCRATIZATION all the benefits from that (pundit has been all over the place for the last ten years shouting about the "dividend") goes to waste! Development needs democracy to permanently capture and save the benefits. See where kenya is heading

The laws on mineral rights etc were driven by your people. Kenyans wanted to have the right to whatever wealth was found on their land. Kibaki cohorts made sure that did not happen. You need a referendum to amend that bro. For now if you were digging a pit latrine and discovered oil, ask the diggers to go down to verify then fill it up and make it their grave because you will lose your home and the oil.

The conclusion is that central province must disabuse itself of the belief that it produces more than other areas and that somehow it has the role to exercise control over the wealth of other areas. Only then can you or Ephraem Maina find a sharing formula that you would accept. For now any formula is wrong because it fails to address GREED.

What I suggested is federalism . And all those taxes suggested are what in many jurisdiction  would be local taxes. Kikuyu population isn't dwindling but growing at slower rate than other places, this is an indicator of level of development. Just like probably central has lower child mortality and has gender parity in education. So what if Kisumu get more revenue if they are producing it? They already gets more taxes from land rates than muranga or nyeri. As for oil I which we can adopt mineral laws like america, where landowners would have be the one to sell mining rights. That way the locals benefit.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: hk on July 04, 2017, 08:56:12 AM
HK

Boy you have a problem. You must be new to these matters and are grappling with what is acceptbale to your people.

Federalism? That is what Raila and Ruto proposed in 2004 and Kikuyus almost collectively burst their aortas! The condemnation lasted through the 2005 referendum.

Federalism or majimbo is what Uhuru killed in Naivasha aided by a rebelling ODM group led by Ruto.

Whatever method you choose is based on the false premise that Central produces more than the other areas and that we know is simply NOT true. As we head in to 2030s RV, Nyanza and Coast will produce more than Central for the simple reason that whatever "wealth" was extracted from the state and nothing local outside failing and heavily subsidized agriculture (coffee) earns anything.

You may use any euphemism you find pleasant about the population decline. The bottom line is there are fewer people being born in Central while there are more people being born elsewhere.

You are also free to look at it as a benefit. I may just remind you that that kind of went out of fashion when China found herself facing the same population structure as Italy thanks to its one child policy. Without massive investment in social programs, infrastructure, an end to corruption and above all DEMOCRATIZATION all the benefits from that (pundit has been all over the place for the last ten years shouting about the "dividend") goes to waste! Development needs democracy to permanently capture and save the benefits. See where kenya is heading

The laws on mineral rights etc were driven by your people. Kenyans wanted to have the right to whatever wealth was found on their land. Kibaki cohorts made sure that did not happen. You need a referendum to amend that bro. For now if you were digging a pit latrine and discovered oil, ask the diggers to go down to verify then fill it up and make it their grave because you will lose your home and the oil.

The conclusion is that central province must disabuse itself of the belief that it produces more than other areas and that somehow it has the role to exercise control over the wealth of other areas. Only then can you or Ephraem Maina find a sharing formula that you would accept. For now any formula is wrong because it fails to address GREED.
I don't know who advocated for what and the specifics, its irrelevant now. I don't understand why you're obsessed with what central will get, if central doesn't consume or produce anything it will get small amounts of funds as it should. Clearly the growth areas going forward will be around urban areas, your assumption seems to b that those urban areas will only be inhabited by the locals. Consumption taxes are very good indicator on economic activity of a region this should be devolved. There's what is equalization fund that goes to least developed counties.
BTW its just a matter of time before population growth of other region start slowing down, world over people get fewer kids as they get wealthier or basic things like child mortality are eliminated. The question should be what's important Nominal GDP or per capital GDP? Clearly the latter.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 04, 2017, 11:23:49 AM
Federalism is the way to go but gradually - counites need to build capacity before they are given more power - for instance health sector is struggling really badly - and yet it could be source of revenue for counties. KRA should continue collecting all taxes - but we can start tagging where taxes are coming from - outright I would say of 15B usd we collect - majority of it is PAYE - this mainly GOK staff (700,000) -and private sector (2M) - then you have customs (collected mainly from Mombasa port) - then VAT (which actually contribute to 60% of the tax).

I think it's going to be hard to split most of the taxes to counties - what will work is to slowly allow counties to keep portion of taxes - like % of PAYE of employees in that county - otherwise stuff like tax on fuel or alcohol is best administered nationally.

I don't know who advocated for what and the specifics, its irrelevant now. I don't understand why you're obsessed with what central will get, if central doesn't consume or produce anything it will get small amounts of funds as it should. Clearly the growth areas going forward will be around urban areas, your assumption seems to b that those urban areas will only be inhabited by the locals. Consumption taxes are very good indicator on economic activity of a region this should be devolved. There's what is equalization fund that goes to least developed counties.
BTW its just a matter of time before population growth of other region start slowing down, world over people get fewer kids as they get wealthier or basic things like child mortality are eliminated. The question should be what's important Nominal GDP or per capital GDP? Clearly the latter.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 04, 2017, 11:55:30 AM
First it is you who said: We aren't against devolution actually we'd like 50% to be devolved but we dont want the current formula?

I found the statement somewhat confusing if not self contradictory. But the most urgent at the time was the question of what you meant by "we". Since you have previously named yourself a spokesman for "Kikuyus", I got my answer quite fast as you no0 doubt will appreciate!

I note your protests below including this one: I don't understand why you're obsessed with what central will get, . Until now I thought you were talking about revenue sharing. I assumed you wrote the following:
Quote
...we don't want the current formula? I know for a fact when jubilee wins they'll change the formula of sharing funds to more federalism.

I assume Central will be included in that new formula. So how does responding to that become an obsession?

I will assume you got too sensitive when confronted with the fact that whatever you are suggesting has been proposed before for the same motives and when it was offered, the same people who wanted it did not like it at all and changed tactics.

Now let's go to "federalism" which you have caught on. Please assume I am a total idiot from Mwambao village and explain to me:
1. How it works
2. How it differs from the current County Based Devolution
3. Its advantages

Better still since I can still use my faculties, direct me to "a case study". Where has this functioned. In fact if you just name a country, I would be on way.

Some questions I need you to consider when responding:

4. Does it in any way grant more powers to the Federal Units?
5. Is the power for self determination for the units envisaged?

I don't know who advocated for what and the specifics, its irrelevant now. I don't understand why you're obsessed with what central will get, if central doesn't consume or produce anything it will get small amounts of funds as it should. Clearly the growth areas going forward will be around urban areas, your assumption seems to b that those urban areas will only be inhabited by the locals. Consumption taxes are very good indicator on economic activity of a region this should be devolved. There's what is equalization fund that goes to least developed counties.
BTW its just a matter of time before population growth of other region start slowing down, world over people get fewer kids as they get wealthier or basic things like child mortality are eliminated. The question should be what's important Nominal GDP or per capital GDP? Clearly the latter.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: hk on July 04, 2017, 12:06:15 PM
Federalism is the way to go but gradually - counites need to build capacity before they are given more power - for instance health sector is struggling really badly - and yet it could be source of revenue for counties. KRA should continue collecting all taxes - but we can start tagging where taxes are coming from - outright I would say of 15B usd we collect - majority of it is PAYE - this mainly GOK staff (700,000) -and private sector (2M) - then you have customs (collected mainly from Mombasa port) - then VAT (which actually contribute to 60% of the tax).

I think it's going to be hard to split most of the taxes to counties - what will work is to slowly allow counties to keep portion of taxes - like % of PAYE of employees in that county - otherwise stuff like tax on fuel or alcohol is best administered nationally.
I agree it should be gradual as counties get capacity. Companies can easily add location where they charge VAT on their ETRs. Also on fuel and alcohol companies just need to disclose where they have sold those products and from there calculations would be easy. However PAYE would be probably the easiest to determine from what county its derived from.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 04, 2017, 12:18:20 PM
Kindly define what you mean by "federalism" before we end up discussing something we do not know.

Federalism is the way to go but gradually - counites need to build capacity before they are given more power - for instance health sector is struggling really badly - and yet it could be source of revenue for counties. KRA should continue collecting all taxes - but we can start tagging where taxes are coming from - outright I would say of 15B usd we collect - majority of it is PAYE - this mainly GOK staff (700,000) -and private sector (2M) - then you have customs (collected mainly from Mombasa port) - then VAT (which actually contribute to 60% of the tax).

I think it's going to be hard to split most of the taxes to counties - what will work is to slowly allow counties to keep portion of taxes - like % of PAYE of employees in that county - otherwise stuff like tax on fuel or alcohol is best administered nationally.
I agree it should be gradual as counties get capacity. Companies can easily add location where they charge VAT on their ETRs. Also on fuel and alcohol companies just need to disclose where they have sold those products and from there calculations would be easy. However PAYE would be probably the easiest to determine from what county its derived from.

Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 04, 2017, 06:15:19 PM
Let call it deeper devolution - turning counties to states that can hire policemen and levy taxes. Obviously you're interested in the ability to secede..Luo Nyanza can secede any day if that makes you happy,
Kindly define what you mean by "federalism" before we end up discussing something we do not know.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 04, 2017, 06:51:11 PM
Let call it deeper devolution - turning counties to states that can hire policemen and levy taxes. Obviously you're interested in the ability to secede..Luo Nyanza can secede any day if that makes you happy,
Kindly define what you mean by "federalism" before we end up discussing something we do not know.

I see it as more than just that.  The units can also make their own laws.  You might have Kiambu implement harsher punishments for drunken debauchery, while Siaya might have stronger laws that protect women from wife inheritance for instance.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 04, 2017, 07:23:06 PM
Windy, that is a very bad example.  I wish you talked about stronger Siaya County laws to protecting women and children from domestic violence than advancing the  tribal political stereotype of luo's and wife inheritance.

Let call it deeper devolution - turning counties to states that can hire policemen and levy taxes. Obviously you're interested in the ability to secede..Luo Nyanza can secede any day if that makes you happy,
Kindly define what you mean by "federalism" before we end up discussing something we do not know.

I see it as more than just that.  The units can also make their own laws.  You might have Kiambu implement harsher punishments for drunken debauchery, while Siaya might have stronger laws that protect women from wife inheritance for instance.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 04, 2017, 07:48:02 PM
Windy, that is a very bad example.  I wish you talked about stronger Siaya County laws to protecting women and children from domestic violence than advancing the  tribal political stereotype of luo's and wife inheritance.

Let call it deeper devolution - turning counties to states that can hire policemen and levy taxes. Obviously you're interested in the ability to secede..Luo Nyanza can secede any day if that makes you happy,
Kindly define what you mean by "federalism" before we end up discussing something we do not know.

I see it as more than just that.  The units can also make their own laws.  You might have Kiambu implement harsher punishments for drunken debauchery, while Siaya might have stronger laws that protect women from wife inheritance for instance.

That wasn't the intention.  If that is how it came out, my apologies.  It was also not my intention to suggest that Kikuyus are drunkards.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 04, 2017, 09:48:01 PM
Pundit

At this rate secession might be the best option. When elections are rigged and funds taken from some and given to others on an entitlement basis, there are few options.

Long before oil was discovered in Turkana I was over there to do a program audit along with a westerner seeking to improve his CV for a better State Dept career. He looked at the soil and without a doubt said there is oil in this area.

We later ended up in your home area to visit the expansive Mogogosiek Tea Factory and he said the same. I am sure you'll eventually face the same issues the Turkana are grappling with.

What if the National government decides to take most of the loot and leave behind pollution, disease and poverty? Remember oil ruins agriculture!

For now I am for a unitary democratic state. But I want the same federalism as per the first constitution
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 04, 2017, 10:55:51 PM
I say we take it slowly - we are somewhere - people who are minorities in those states or counties have genuine fears - and also we cannot load counties that can't even handle health - with more responsibilities without building their capacity - we are mere 50 yrs - take it slowly.

Windy City - County assemblies can make laws now - there is small issue of AG refusing to gazette those laws.

Pundit

At this rate secession might be the best option. When elections are rigged and funds taken from some and given to others on an entitlement basis, there are few options.

Long before oil was discovered in Turkana I was over there to do a program audit along with a westerner seeking to improve his CV for a better State Dept career. He looked at the soil and without a doubt said there is oil in this area.

We later ended up in your home area to visit the expansive Mogogosiek Tea Factory and he said the same. I am sure you'll eventually face the same issues the Turkana are grappling with.

What if the National government decides to take most of the loot and leave behind pollution, disease and poverty? Remember oil ruins agriculture!

For now I am for a unitary democratic state. But I want the same federalism as per the first constitution
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kichwa on July 05, 2017, 04:05:35 PM
We need a national government that is pro-devolution and you will see how quickly devolution will take root.  Obamacare was working fine until a government that does not believe in it came to power and are now dismantling it.  Devolution is being undermined by ouruto and that is why the teething problems are being used to undermine it further instead of finding viable solutions.

I say we take it slowly - we are somewhere - people who are minorities in those states or counties have genuine fears - and also we cannot load counties that can't even handle health - with more responsibilities without building their capacity - we are mere 50 yrs - take it slowly.

Windy City - County assemblies can make laws now - there is small issue of AG refusing to gazette those laws.

Pundit

At this rate secession might be the best option. When elections are rigged and funds taken from some and given to others on an entitlement basis, there are few options.

Long before oil was discovered in Turkana I was over there to do a program audit along with a westerner seeking to improve his CV for a better State Dept career. He looked at the soil and without a doubt said there is oil in this area.

We later ended up in your home area to visit the expansive Mogogosiek Tea Factory and he said the same. I am sure you'll eventually face the same issues the Turkana are grappling with.

What if the National government decides to take most of the loot and leave behind pollution, disease and poverty? Remember oil ruins agriculture!

For now I am for a unitary democratic state. But I want the same federalism as per the first constitution
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 05, 2017, 05:22:40 PM
This illustrates the topsyturvy nature of Pundit and his side kick - HK.

1. They advocate for federalism which by all descriptions means Devolution Plus. Never mind that my specific questions to determine how much PLUS was ignored by HK but with indirect responses by Pundit, I got a rough idea of what they meant.
2. Remember I told HK that whatever system he prefers he would soon find it is not addressing his needs and will turn against it and that this had been done before with predictable results. He insisted on federalism.

Now we have Pundit repeating the same Ruto-Uhuru subterfuge about capacity.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 05, 2017, 05:32:50 PM
We are all pro-devolution/federalism. Which is a great thing- we differ on the speed/shape of it.. I think HK want counties to work their .arse off and compete for investors/grow the pie - rather than just waiting to receive money based on population. If we don't change the law - we will soon become Nigerian - where everyone inflate their population figures - because all the money comes from Oil and it's shared based on pop size. Turkana and Mandera did this and got away with it. The next census better be on biometrics..otherwise counties will be interested in inflating their pop size so they can get more money.

Most pple who are complaining about devolution right now are those that have done so little with money they got. Governors who performed like Dr Mutua or Wairia or etc have manage to do alot.
All you read from NASA (who control Kisumu/Nairobi/Mombasa - which are now garbage cities) and Isaac is desperate attempt to pass the blame to National GOK - instead of explaining how they spend all the billions.National GoK is not in charge of budget. It's the parliament. No one CORD member of parliament is on record for wanting more money budgeted for counties. This is becauee parliament have delicate duty to balance the country need.


This illustrates the topsyturvy nature of Pundit and his side kick - HK.

1. They advocate for federalism which by all descriptions means Devolution Plus. Never mind that my specific questions to determine how much PLUS was ignored by HK but with indirect responses by Pundit, I got a rough idea of what they meant.
2. Remember I told HK that whatever system he prefers he would soon find it is not addressing his needs and will turn against it and that this had been done before with predictable results. He insisted on federalism.

Now we have Pundit repeating the same Ruto-Uhuru subterfuge about capacity.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 05, 2017, 06:32:40 PM
There is one small detail you FORGOT while bashing NASA. NASA also CONTROLS Machakos! So if it has succeeded despite having an indicted thief as governor, I thank the NASA MCAs who have steered clear of Jubilee bribery.

Nobody has stopped Uhuru from insisting of proper BVR use for Birth Certificates, ID cards, Criminal Fingerprinting, Voter registration etc. It is Jubilee that has frustrated all efforts mae by the NARA government to bring the use of modern technology to solve these problems.

It is only recently that most Kenyans discovered the duplicity and hypocrisy of the Uhuru-Ruto Kleptocracy where they basically say one thing and do the exact opposite. They then accuse anybody who points out their duplicity of frustrating the very thing they sabotaged. We have seen them go to parliament to provide for manual voting and when CORD opposed, they accused it of planning to hack the system and declare Raila the winner.

We saw them sabotage the BVR and claim Kikuyus have no fingerprints because they work too hard (Kembi Gitura before he was rigged out)

I want to bet you anything that Uhuru would never agree to a BVR use in the census because it would reveal a badly kept secret - Kikuyu figures were first inflated in 1968 and Luo figures suppressed in 1999. Just like the example you cite of Nigeria where different groups are against a proper census and anything that would properly state the exact size of the population, Jubilee has an interest in hiding the truth.

I disagree that Turkana or Mandera cheated in population. The courts ruled against those claims against NEP. If you can accept the Supreme Court ruling against CORD and keep waving it over our heads, kindly accept that of the High court as well!

Do you have any proof of corruption or abuse of money against anybody that you can post or is this part of your new persona of oozing lies?

How did you want CORD MPs to ask for more money outside the established procedure? This rhetorical propaganda has to come to an end next month when Uhuru goes home.

By and large most MPs have opposed the sharing formula but Jubilee voting machines have then gone ahead and approved anything they are so ordered by Uhuru.


We are all pro-devolution/federalism. Which is a great thing- we differ on the speed/shape of it.. I think HK want counties to work their .arse off and compete for investors/grow the pie - rather than just waiting to receive money based on population. If we don't change the law - we will soon become Nigerian - where everyone inflate their population figures - because all the money comes from Oil and it's shared based on pop size. Turkana and Mandera did this and got away with it. The next census better be on biometrics..otherwise counties will be interested in inflating their pop size so they can get more money.

Most pple who are complaining about devolution right now are those that have done so little with money they got. Governors who performed like Dr Mutua or Wairia or etc have manage to do alot.

All you read from NASA (who control Kisumu/Nairobi/Mombasa - which are now garbage cities) and Isaac is desperate attempt to pass the blame to National GOK - instead of explaining how they spend all the billions.National GoK is not in charge of budget. It's the parliament. No one CORD member of parliament is on record for wanting more money budgeted for counties. This is becauee parliament have delicate duty to balance the country need.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on July 05, 2017, 09:47:23 PM
The current electoral boundaries are well balanced - population, size, development. That is how RV and NEP got more MPs, while Nairobi can be said to be shortchanged, it's not. The current revenue formula is ok too, applying mostly the boundary formula not just population.

I missed this.  This forum is best for a certain speed.  I admit I don't have the details of how this should be divvied up.  I also think Omollo is right, the census should be the basis. 

I just want to point out that looking at it on the basis of registered voters, an argument could be made for certain areas votes counting more than others in terms of parliamentary representation.  And a few of those areas that are shafted are in Central.  To some extent, the number of registered voters is going to correlate to census numbers.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 06, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
Termie

Registered voters has nothing to do with Electoral Boundaries.

Pay attention to the formula used. Urban centres have more people per constituency. I support that because if one pursues equality, all decisions will favor urbanites at the expense of the rural areas. I even think the current system must be changed to PR.

For starters we can have a finite number assigned a county based on its total population. The county would then be the single constituency which elects the MPs assigned.

As we learn the system better, the entire country should become a single constituency. Seats will be assigned based on the votes received by each party. That way there will be no winners or losers.
The current electoral boundaries are well balanced - population, size, development. That is how RV and NEP got more MPs, while Nairobi can be said to be shortchanged, it's not. The current revenue formula is ok too, applying mostly the boundary formula not just population.

I missed this.  This forum is best for a certain speed.  I admit I don't have the details of how this should be divvied up.  I also think Omollo is right, the census should be the basis. 

I just want to point out that looking at it on the basis of registered voters, an argument could be made for certain areas votes counting more than others in terms of parliamentary representation.  And a few of those areas that are shafted are in Central.  To some extent, the number of registered voters is going to correlate to census numbers.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: RV Pundit on July 06, 2017, 02:48:02 PM
No need to rack our brains. CAR (Allocation commission)- which is standing independent commission - should continuously find the best & most equitable method to share funds - based on many factors.
IEBC - whose other name is BOUNDARIES - will review boundaries every 10yrs I think - possibly after census - so 2020.
 
Termie

Registered voters has nothing to do with Electoral Boundaries.

Pay attention to the formula used. Urban centres have more people per constituency. I support that because if one pursues equality, all decisions will favor urbanites at the expense of the rural areas. I even think the current system must be changed to PR.

For starters we can have a finite number assigned a county based on its total population. The county would then be the single constituency which elects the MPs assigned.

As we learn the system better, the entire country should become a single constituency. Seats will be assigned based on the votes received by each party. That way there will be no winners or losers.
The current electoral boundaries are well balanced - population, size, development. That is how RV and NEP got more MPs, while Nairobi can be said to be shortchanged, it's not. The current revenue formula is ok too, applying mostly the boundary formula not just population.

I missed this.  This forum is best for a certain speed.  I admit I don't have the details of how this should be divvied up.  I also think Omollo is right, the census should be the basis. 

I just want to point out that looking at it on the basis of registered voters, an argument could be made for certain areas votes counting more than others in terms of parliamentary representation.  And a few of those areas that are shafted are in Central.  To some extent, the number of registered voters is going to correlate to census numbers.
Title: Re: NASA in Bomet
Post by: Omollo on July 06, 2017, 03:36:23 PM
Pundit is coming apart slowly. Here he misses the issues under debate and as it has become normal with him throws in a few lies just to show he is still alive.

It is not hard to pick out the enemies of devolution regardless of where they hide. That a man like Pundit is unaware of the hardships that Jubilee MPs have caused over this man can only be seen in the light of his sharing their views and prejudices:

Quote
217. (1) Once every five years, the Senate shall, by resolution, determine the basis for allocating among the counties the share of national revenue that is annually allocated to the county level of government.
(2) In determining the basis of revenue sharing under clause (1), the Senate shall—
(a) take the criteria in Article 203 (1) into account;
(b) request and consider recommendations from the Commission on Revenue Allocation;
(c) consult the county governors, the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance and any organisation of county
governments; and
(d) invite the public, including professional bodies, to make submissions to it on the matter.
(3) Within ten days after the Senate adopts a resolution under clause (1), the Speaker of the Senate shall refer the resolution to the Speaker of the National Assembly.
(4) Within sixty days after the Senate’s resolution is referred under clause (3), the National Assembly may consider the resolution, and vote to approve it, with or without amendments, or to reject it.
(5) If the National Assembly––
(a) does not vote on the resolution within sixty days, the resolution shall be regarded as having been approved by the National Assembly without amendment; or
(b) votes on the resolution, the resolution shall have been–– (i) amended only if at least two-thirds of the members of the
Assembly vote in support of an amendment;
(ii) rejected only if at least two-thirds of the members of the Assembly vote against it, irrespective whether it has first been amended by the Assembly; or
(iii) approved, in any other case.
(6) If the National Assembly approves an amended version of the resolution, or rejects the resolution, the Senate, at its option, may either––

(a) adopt a new resolution under clause (1), in which case the provisions of this clause and clause (4) and (5) apply afresh; or
(b) request that the matter be referred to a joint committee of the two Houses of Parliament for mediation under Article
113, applied with the necessary modifications.
(7) A resolution under this Article that is approved under clause (5)
shall be binding until a subsequent resolution has been approved.
(8.) Despite clause (1), the Senate may, by resolution supported by at least two-thirds of its members, amend a resolution at any time after it has been approved.
(9) Clauses (2) to (8.), with the necessary modifications, apply to
a resolution under clause (8.).

No need to rack our brains. CAR (Allocation commission)- which is standing independent commission - should continuously find the best & most equitable method to share funds - based on many factors.
IEBC - whose other name is BOUNDARIES - will review boundaries every 10yrs I think - possibly after census - so 2020.