Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on June 17, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
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Not only this - but he continues to use the word madoadoa - which has historical connotation that is not very nice.
http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2017/06/17/uhuru-tells-off-raila-over-talk-of-land-invasion_c1581163
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First and foremost, that is not what Raila said. (Bandika vindio Kwanza). Telling poor Kenyans that land is the only wealth they have and that they should not sell it is not inciting Kenyans unless of course you are a land grabber/thief. The only way to avoid PEV is not to steal elections.
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Crackhead uhuru too bruised from tough political campaign now latch to the land Question. It's time for Raila to remind uhuru about the land report he has been sitting on for years. It's time to address the land injustice in this country especially in mombasa where one family has displaced a whole population and reduced them to squatters on their own ancestral land. It's time to address the IDP question. .what happened to IDP land? Who took the IDP land? NASA should not be cowed on land debate. The people who have stolen other people land are known.
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Raila should talk about land some more because there is nothing that gets to Ouru and Ruto more than the issue of land. Its their achiles-heels. This campaign is just getting started.
Crackhead uhuru too bruised from tough political campaign now latch to the land Question. It's time for Raila to remind uhuru about the land report he has been sitting on for years. It's time to address the land injustice in this country especially in mombasa where one family has displaced a whole population and reduced them to squatters on their own ancestral land. It's time to address the IDP question. .what happened to IDP land? Who took the IDP land? NASA should not be cowed on land debate. The people who have stolen other people land are known.
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He clearly said maasai should not sell land to outsiders. Who is an outsider in kenya? Tanzania maasais?
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Had forgotten the laikipia one
http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Raila-s-utterances-on-land-and-talk-on-historical-injustices/440808-3974898-v03liyz/index.html
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I am very disappointed. Not because I think Raila was inciting anyone to violence, he was not. He is telling Maas not to sell their land. They are being displaced very fast. Its not bad advice.
But I am disappointed in the monumental stupidity Raila has shown here, talking of invaders and "kwao": he knows Kibaki in 2007 and Uhuruto in 2013 used the boogeyman tactic to scare their people to the voting booths "Raila wants you dead" that is why I was utterly against Kibaki in 2007. And now, with a good shot of depressing votes even in central due to lack of enthusiasm for Jubilee's ridiculously expensive Kenya, he hands them a gift in this statement that they immediately proceed to twist and use in the same fashion as 2007 and 2013.
Uhuru says that Raila said people should "go back" to their homes. Raila said Maa's should not sell land to outsiders. Those two are very different statements but Raila's usual carelessness in speech is what has made it possible for Uhuru to peddle that lie and for others to believe him.
Also, considering all those people who have moved into Kajiado are not all Kyuks anyway and thus not Jubilee voters necessarily, why risk them refusing to support you out of fear of being labled an invader? I can imagine Gusiis in Maa land getting worried over this. This was careless and unnecessary and therefore STUPID! I am angry that silly mistakes like these will cost Raila many votes that are already his.
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Kadame,
How is Maa's should not sell land to outsiders" OKAY? What is okay about it ? I thought Raila constitution allows Maasai to sell land to anybody? Of all the issues facing Maasai -why even talk about that - why not ask Maasai to go to schools, promise them water,roads and livestock etc?
I am sorry but you're too much of Raila apologist to realize Raila has never really changed and how he got free from ICC is one reason kenyans showed the ICC the middle finger. See what he said in Laikipia about those ranchers? See how he continues to use the word "Madoadoa" to call for six piece suit like he he lacks better words. The history of we don't want madoadoa is well known. It intentional to evoke hatred of kikuyus. Guy go to Kisumu and say don't kill Gusii because they are not adui - and saying nothing about Kikuyus being killed? Raila is obviously and has obviously been trying to get maasai & coastal vote by inciting them on historical land issues. He used to do the same in Kalenjin land but after he left folks high & dry - nobody buys that anymore.
What he doesn't realize is for the few coastal and maasai votes he yearn - he loses so many more votes and as you say excite GEMA to turn up to stop this existential threat.
NASA had better chance with Kalonzo or MaDVD - not Raila.
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Video - It even worse than I thought.
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Pundit, a few years back I saw a show about the Maa and their land and realized they were very bitter about the land thing, I had no idea. Among them are a significant number of Kisiis who have bought a lot land and have small businesses all over the place with Gusii names. I remember being irritated by the Maa speakers because they saw it not only as individuals owning land but as a sort of cultural displacement. The whole time I was telling the telly "but no one forced you to sell your land!"
Regardless of whether they were right or not, I have come to appreciate that their perception is there nonetheless and I don't see Raila's telling them not to sell to be any different than what I was saying when watching that show!
I have major problems with him calling outsiders invaders. I think that alone is what has made it possible to add a layer of malice to his words. But telling Maa not to sell? Not at all. That is recognizing an existing grievance among the Maa and telling them the only thing to do is to retain their land as well as promising to deal with the poverty that forces them to sell their land in the first place. If you feel your indegnious group is under some kind of cultural threat, I dont see anything wrong with holding on to the land.
I see a big problem with saying discriminate based on tribe, but I dont see a problem wishing to retain the Maa identity of a certain area by encouraging those who are complaining not to sell. To me it is a complicated issue. But Raila speaks without nuance and also, its not a necessary issue to bring up so why talk about it at all? Its just stupid.
Also, Pundit, a lot of the matusi Uhuru hurls around is also hateful and unnecessary.
Raila never incited ethnic attacks in 2007. Madoadoa was ALWAYS in reference to party not tribe. PNU propagandists tried to spin it but it was always telling people not to give PNU parties any seat which is the job of every party to do is to campaign for all seats not just some.
Demonstrations are not the kinds of things ICC deals with. Luos in Nyanza did not carry out ethnic cleansing, instead they were shot by cops while rioting and looting. Ethnic cleansing was a Kalenjin-Kikuyu affair in 2007, that is just a fact. The rest of the unrest was in the general rioting category that did not blatantly target either Kikuyus (and others) or Kalenjin (and others) directly and specifically. It happened among others, yes, but only in tiny amounts. Not widespread like in Rift Valley among Kalenjins and Kikuyus.
ICC would have gone after Raila too I believe if Luos rather than mainly rioting decided to attack and kill Kikuyus instead and then Luo lieutentants of Raila were caught encourging this ethnic attacks on radio and similar media. Its hard to claim disorganized rioting is ethnic cleansing even if the prosecutor is desperate to nail Raila on something. Raila has always "incited" mass action but mass action, even if turns into rioting, is not a crime against humanity.
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You're an incredible Raila apologist.
1) If land was an issue - why not ask Maasai not to sell land? Why qualify it with outsider? So if Maasai do not want outsiders - a retrogressive idea - do you encourage them for "cultural" reasons. Maasai are not poor. Far from it. They are mostly illiterate. They sell the land cheaply and blow all the money in alcohol & women. Raila is behaving exactly like Ntimama & many maasai leaders - who continuously lie to Maasai that problem is external not internal - their continued attempt to live a stone age lifestyle in 21st century.
2) His speech in that video is not only hate speech but also incitement.
3) The history of word madoadoa is not PNU or 2007. It's 1992 when likes of Biwott used it and it led to 1992 tribal clashes. Why would he use it know. Just read Akiwumu report. Obviously in place like RV that clearly means we don't want outsiders in our midst. Why not use word like we want a six-piece suit?
4) Let not go into 2007 so much. Just know violence that led to Killings started in Luo Nyanza before elections - when Luos pulled Kikuyu alleged APS -and murdered many of them. Raila is as responsible for 2007 PEV and only Kibaki is more responsible for it.
5) Raila called on Luos not to evict Gusii...coz they were not adui. Who was the adui?
6) We can go on and on...but Raila history of violence starts in 1982 and has not ended...he is clearly desperate and planning to incite violence in the hope of NARA like arrangement.
Kenya Gov should be prepared to deal with Raila strongly. We don't want Kibaki the coward letting Raila incite hate and then we have apologist all over defending him.
If Ruto or Uhuru was to ever utter words that are remotely inciteful and hateful like Raila we would have the entire apologist shouting hoarse for months.
Pundit, a few years back I saw a show about the Maa and their land and realized they were very bitter about the land thing, I had no idea. Among them are a significant number of Kisiis who have bought a lot land and have small businesses all over the place with Gusii names. I remember being irritated by the Maa speakers because they saw it not only as individuals owning land but as a sort of cultural displacement. The whole time I was telling the telly "but no one forced you to sell your land!"
Regardless of whether they were right or not, I have come to appreciate that their perception is there nonetheless and I don't see Raila's telling them not to sell to be any different than what I was saying when watching that show!
I have major problems with him calling outsiders invaders. I think that alone is what has made it possible to add a layer of malice to his words. But telling Maa not to sell? Not at all. That is recognizing an existing grievance among the Maa and telling them the only thing to do is to retain their land as well as promising to deal with the poverty that forces them to sell their land in the first place. If you feel your indegnious group is under some kind of cultural threat, I dont see anything wrong with holding on to the land.
I see a big problem with saying discriminate based on tribe, but I dont see a problem wishing to retain the Maa identity of a certain area by encouraging those who are complaining not to sell. To me it is a complicated issue. But Raila speaks without nuance and also, its not a necessary issue to bring up so why talk about it at all? Its just stupid.
Also, Pundit, a lot of the matusi Uhuru hurls around is also hateful and unnecessary.
Raila never incited ethnic attacks in 2007. Madoadoa was ALWAYS in reference to party not tribe. PNU propagandists tried to spin it but it was always telling people not to give PNU parties any seat which is the job of every party to do is to campaign for all seats not just some.
Demonstrations are not the kinds of things ICC deals with. Luos in Nyanza did not carry out ethnic cleansing, instead they were shot by cops while rioting and looting. Ethnic cleansing was a Kalenjin-Kikuyu affair in 2007, that is just a fact. The rest of the unrest was in the general rioting category that did not blatantly target either Kikuyus (and others) or Kalenjin (and others) directly and specifically. It happened among others, yes, but only in tiny amounts. Not widespread like in Rift Valley among Kalenjins and Kikuyus. ICC would have gone after Raila too I believe if Luos rather than mainly rioting decided to attack and kill Kikuyus instead and then Luo lietentants of Raila were caught encourhagind the same on radio and similar media. Its hard to claim disorganized rioting is ethnic cleansing even if the prosecutor is desperate to nail Raila on something.
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He clearly said maasai should not sell land to outsiders. Who is an outsider in kenya? Tanzania maasais?
Please post the video of Raila saying that then we proceed. If not, take this to choo.com am sure it is already well received.
The partial video you have posted is heavily edited and the opening portion is clearly messed up. You can download free programs online to see how it was cut and pasted.
I am told Kikuyus say he was inciting the Maa against them, please tell me at what point he mentions "Kikuyu".
Raila is addressing the issue of Jubilee created poverty that is forcing people to sell their land and others to move from their homes to settle in other areas. The biggest reason for this is expenses associated with living and education for the kids.
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Omollo - the video is posted somewhere in this thread - shouldn't be hard to find it.
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Maybe this picture would help - now that Raila has incited maasai against outsiders.
(https://scontent.fnbo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19149309_309507622824964_2612389625458750016_n.jpg?oh=bfdfe814833b351ee163c11e14c112a3&oe=59DBB92B)
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Omollo - the video is posted somewhere in this thread - shouldn't be hard to find it.
I have seen the portion you posted. I am asking for the whole video without alterations
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Why not do us a favour and give us the full video considering you've been covering his rallies. The video we have is clearly showing Raila inciting Maasai against outsiders who should remain in their own place.
I have seen the portion you posted. I am asking for the whole video without alterations
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Why are you settled in Mombasa not Luo Nyanza.
Raila is addressing the issue of Jubilee created poverty that is forcing people to sell their land and others to move from their homes to settle in other areas. The biggest reason for this is expenses associated with living and education for the kids.
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Maybe this picture would help - now that Raila has incited maasai against outsiders.
(https://scontent.fnbo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19149309_309507622824964_2612389625458750016_n.jpg?oh=bfdfe814833b351ee163c11e14c112a3&oe=59DBB92B)
C'mon! It is a good forgery with somen serious tale-tell mistakes.
1. There is an attempt to make it sound like it was written by a Luo. Which begs the question: Why a Luo and not a Maasai?
2. Kisiis and Kalenjins are part of the NASA constituency, so this is a feeble attempt to win votes in Kisii and Nyamira and you see Kenyans have seen this thing so long, they know when it is real. Tell the NIS to concentrate on Kikuyus in their fake leaflets. They will sound more credible
3. There is no way in a million a Maa would prefix an H before a vowel. That is a Kamba thing. So either the forger is a Kamba or he has limited linguistic knowledge to mimic a Luo or Maasai
Well, the NIS seems to suggest the "Fatwa" was issued in collaboration with the Maasai elders. That brings us to rule number one of Propaganda: Focus on one target at a time and avoid drawing in others who may ruin your narrative.
Clearly done by amateurs. But if that is how you want to play it, some of us are being held back by the ropes tied around us. We have the capacity to do much better than that and on shoestring budget and no trail.
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I will say this and be gone: this is clearly a blunder as is usual with Raila's foot-in-mouth disease. I dont believe Raila intends for the Maa to turn violent. I believe he knows of their complaints about their lands being taken over and is telling them not to sell their land while at the same time acknowledging that poverty forces them to do so. I believe he was careless with his words and has handed a small grenade to his rivals and hope he finds a cure for this disease of his which only affected Kibaki as much as him. Yes it seems retrogressive to try and retain an area's cultural identity but the issue is more nuanced than that. If the sense is that the identity is being diluted out of a forced circumstance rather than simple choice, its not that simple to me. But I dont think this issue belongs on the campaign trail regardless. Raila should find a better way to speak to the issue of poverty and avoid getting ensnared in these perception issues. Hayo tu.
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The video is forgery. This is forgery. We get it. Now get us the real video.
C'mon! It is a good forgery with somen serious tale-tell mistakes.
1. There is an attempt to make it sound like it was written by a Luo. Which begs the question: Why a Luo and not a Maasai?
2. Kisiis and Kalenjins are part of the NASA constituency, so this is a feeble attempt to win votes in Kisii and Nyamira and you see Kenyans have seen this thing so long, they know when it is real. Tell the NIS to concentrate on Kikuyus in their fake leaflets. They will sound more credible
3. There is no way in a million a Maa would prefix an H before a vowel. That is a Kamba thing. So either the forger is a Kamba or he has limited linguistic knowledge to mimic a Luo or Maasai
Well, the NIS seems to suggest the "Fatwa" was issued in collaboration with the Maasai elders. That brings us to rule number one of Propaganda: Focus on one target at a time and avoid drawing in others who may ruin your narrative.
Clearly done by amateurs. But if that is how you want to play it, some of us are being held back by the ropes tied around us. We have the capacity to do much better than that and on shoestring budget and no trail.
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Before you go - can you also apologize for Raila calling kenyan white ranches in Laikipi outsiders -who should lose their land on account of not being around.
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001243416/laikipia-ranchers-hit-out-at-raila-for-supporting-dismantling-of-their-farms
I mean Raila everyday like Omollo here can't help disguise his hatred for a section of kenyans.
And of course his foot-in-the mouth disease is legendary. In Nandi he said God was urinating there daily. Better choice of words could have delivered the message.
I will say this and be gone: this is clearly a blunder as is usual with Raila's foot-in-mouth disease. I dont believe Raila intends for the Maa to turn violent. I believe he knows of their complaints about their lands being taken over and is telling them not to sell their land while at the same time acknowledging that poverty forces them to do so. I believe he was careless with his words and has handed a small grenade to his rivals and hope he finds a cure for this disease of his which only affected Kibaki as much as him. Yes it seems retrogressive to try and retain an area's cultural identity but the issue is more nuanced than that. If the sense is that the identity is being diluted out of a forced circumstance rather than simple choice, its not that simple to me. But I dont think this issue belongs on the campaign trail regardless. Raila should find a better way to speak to the issue of poverty and avoid getting ensnared in these perception issues. Hayo tu.
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Pundit, you can't be serious. I completely understand your ire regarding the Kajiado remarks, I share them even though I see them in a completely different context than you. It is perfectly understandable to me that you would feel indignation re Kajiado remarks but what Raila said about the Laikipia issue? Do you honestly see that as incitement? Don't you think some of his proposed solutions to the govt may be worth trying over there?
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Let me try a Kalenjin riddle my father once told me after I had engineered a destructive school strike in high school. Assume you've been sent to get coal of fire from a neighbor house. You have two options when you get there..you can choose to bring the fire in your bare hand, ran so hard and probably get burnt & drop the fire mid-way..or you can choose to get some rock, put the coals on it and walk comfortably back home.
Raila is a leader. He has to be extremely careful. The Maasai in Kajiado or Laikipa are in need fire. He has chosen to bring it on his bare hands. He'll get burn as always and will not deliver the fire. He might even burn the whole neighberhood after dropping the fire.
As a leader you have to choose your words very wisely. He can learn a lot from Ruto or Uhuru. Even Donald Trump does better. Of course it probably intentionally he wants to burn everything down. He did it in 1982.
I support Raila's solution in Laikipia but if I was a leader...I would choose my words very wisely.. I wouldn't want to appear as unhinged racist prick. We can say anything here coz we can always hide behind anonymity but I wouldn't repeat those words in front of my white friends...I would deliver the message but tacitly.
Pundit, you can't be serious. I completely understand your ire regarding the Kajiado remarks, I share them even though I see them in a completely different context than you. It is perfectly understandable to me that you would feel indignation re Kajiado remarks but what Raila said about the Laikipia issue? Do you honestly see that as incitement? Don't you think some of his proposed solutions to the govt may be worth trying over there?
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Like I always say, the burden of proof is on you. How long do you think it would take an expert to declare that tape fake.
But we all know the purpose and it is not to find Raila "guilty" in a court of law but to smear him so that when Uhuru steals the election, he can explain the violence as the work of Raila. Tell him he will lose again. His plans with Karangi, Kinyua, George Muhoho and others are well documented and this time we shall not make the 2007 mistakes.
Why not do us a favour and give us the full video considering you've been covering his rallies. The video we have is clearly showing Raila inciting Maasai against outsiders who should remain in their own place.
I have seen the portion you posted. I am asking for the whole video without alterations
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I gave you the video. You said the video is fake. Meaning you've got the real one?
Like I always say, the burden of proof is on you. How long do you think it would take an expert to declare that tape fake.
But we all know the purpose and it is not to find Raila "guilty" in a court of law but to smear him so that when Uhuru steals the election, he can explain the violence as the work of Raila. Tell him he will lose again. His plans with Karangi, Kinyua, George Muhoho and others are well documented and this time we shall not make the 2007 mistakes.
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You are not a leader so we cannot compare what you claim Raila said about Laikipia and Kajiado with your own record on similar matters.
Let me try a Kalenjin riddle my father once told me after I had engineered a destructive school strike in high school. Assume you've been sent to get coal of fire from a neighbor house. You have two options when you get there..you can choose to bring the fire in your bare hand, ran so hard and probably get burnt & drop the fire mid-way..or you can choose to get some rock, put the coals on it and walk comfortably back home.
Raila is a leader. He has to be extremely careful. The Maasai in Kajiado or Laikipa are in need fire. He has chosen to bring it on his bare hands. He'll get burn as always and will not deliver the fire. He might even burn the whole neighberhood after dropping the fire.
As a leader you have to choose your words very wisely. He can learn a lot from Ruto or Uhuru. Even Donald Trump does better. Of course it probably intentionally he wants to burn everything down. He did it in 1982.
I support Raila's solution in Laikipia but if I was a leader...I would choose my words very wisely.. I wouldn't want to appear as unhinged racist prick. We can say anything here coz we can always hide behind anonymity but I wouldn't repeat those words in front of my white friends...I would deliver the message but tacitly.
Pundit, you can't be serious. I completely understand your ire regarding the Kajiado remarks, I share them even though I see them in a completely different context than you. It is perfectly understandable to me that you would feel indignation re Kajiado remarks but what Raila said about the Laikipia issue? Do you honestly see that as incitement? Don't you think some of his proposed solutions to the govt may be worth trying over there?
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I could or could not. I am not accusing Raila of anything that I need to prove with the video. The accusations are coming from you at the behest of Jubilee. You have watched your own video and you know the start of it is clearly doctored, depriving the viewer of the crucial context and the words before the one's highlighted. All I ask is get one that places the said utterances in its proper context.
I gave you the video. You said the video is fake. Meaning you've got the real one?
Like I always say, the burden of proof is on you. How long do you think it would take an expert to declare that tape fake.
But we all know the purpose and it is not to find Raila "guilty" in a court of law but to smear him so that when Uhuru steals the election, he can explain the violence as the work of Raila. Tell him he will lose again. His plans with Karangi, Kinyua, George Muhoho and others are well documented and this time we shall not make the 2007 mistakes.
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Pundit
You must know we are not naive anymore and this fight is the fight of the century.
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Sounds like bla de bla to me. The video is legit. Raila uttered those words. And that is what I am standing on until you or Raila or NASA bring another video disapproving that one.
I could or could not. I am not accusing Raila of anything that I need to prove with the video. The accusations are coming from you at the behest of Jubilee. You have watched your own video and you know the start of it is clearly doctored, depriving the viewer of the crucial context and the words before the one's highlighted. All I ask is get one that places the said utterances in its proper context.
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Fight who? Uhuru is getting his 5yrs and Ruto his 10yrs. Then Mwangi Kiunjuri will get his 10 yrs and then Murkomen will get another 10yrs. In 2055 we can decide to spice things up. And there will be no fight because you are smart enough to know you'll lose.
Pundit
You must know we are not naive anymore and this fight is the fight of the century.
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Laikipia, Raila suggestion would decimate the tourism industry in laikipia(already suffering) and greater mt. kenya tourism circuit. Ranches makes more money from cottages than livestock. Its no wonder there's no feedlots in laikipia for beef cattle which would be the easiest way to increase beef industry productivity like Botswana and Namibia. The pastoralist communities need to start creating their own ranches and plant fodder for their animals. Also put up their own cottages to diversify their income. Subdividing land so that people can claim ownership of uneconomically viable land is self defeating.
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"outsider" is anybody who is not a member of your family. The interpretation that Kikuyus are the only "outsiders" is ridiculous. Its like the 2007 lie of "41 against 1" which Raila never uttered but was repeated so many times that some people actually believed he did.
He clearly said maasai should not sell land to outsiders. Who is an outsider in kenya? Tanzania maasais?
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Now that is most intelligent defense that only a lawyer as good as kichwa can come up. Yeah criminally it will be hard to nail him. Politically everyone knows what he means.
"outsider" is anybody who is not a member of your family. The interpretation that Kikuyus are the only "outsiders" is ridiculous. Its like the 2007 lie of "41 against 1" which Raila never uttered but was repeated so many times that some people actually believed he did.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCmHjWLXkAA3TA9.jpg)
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The video is clearly doctored but the message to all poor Kenyans regardless of TRIBE is valid. " Please!! do not sell your land". The proceeds from sale of land by poor Kenyans usually disappears very quickly and most poor people realize they grossly over estimated the benefits of selling their land. The government really need to make it difficult for poor people to sell land as an anti-poverty policy. Criticizing this good advice is like saying that a war against teenage pregnancy is a war against men's right to impregnate women and therefore anti men. its a ridiculous charge. How else do you advise poor people not to sell their land without being labeled anti-Kikuyu as if Kikuyus are the only land buyers in the world.
The video is forgery. This is forgery. We get it. Now get us the real video.
C'mon! It is a good forgery with somen serious tale-tell mistakes.
1. There is an attempt to make it sound like it was written by a Luo. Which begs the question: Why a Luo and not a Maasai?
2. Kisiis and Kalenjins are part of the NASA constituency, so this is a feeble attempt to win votes in Kisii and Nyamira and you see Kenyans have seen this thing so long, they know when it is real. Tell the NIS to concentrate on Kikuyus in their fake leaflets. They will sound more credible
3. There is no way in a million a Maa would prefix an H before a vowel. That is a Kamba thing. So either the forger is a Kamba or he has limited linguistic knowledge to mimic a Luo or Maasai
Well, the NIS seems to suggest the "Fatwa" was issued in collaboration with the Maasai elders. That brings us to rule number one of Propaganda: Focus on one target at a time and avoid drawing in others who may ruin your narrative.
Clearly done by amateurs. But if that is how you want to play it, some of us are being held back by the ropes tied around us. We have the capacity to do much better than that and on shoestring budget and no trail.
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Laikipia, Raila suggestion would decimate the tourism industry in laikipia(already suffering) and greater mt. kenya tourism circuit. Ranches makes more money from cottages than livestock. Its no wonder there's no feedlots in laikipia for beef cattle which would be the easiest way to increase beef industry productivity like Botswana and Namibia. The pastoralist communities need to start creating their own ranches and plant fodder for their animals. Also put up their own cottages to diversify their income. Subdividing land so that people can claim ownership of uneconomically viable land is self defeating.
Share with me what Raila has said about Laikipia. Please attach some evidence since there are a lot of stories going around.
And while at it, there is no tourism to Laikipia and most of those ranches are invaded while Uhuru Kenyatta is in power. He did order soldiers there when Theresa May dispatched Johnson to order Uhuru to do so. He saluted and acted after dithering for months. We have that from R. V. Pundit in person as he testified directly to Moon Ki, just incase you need proof.
I am saying this just incase when we take power on September 5th you turn around and claim that it is NASA that has "scared away tourists". You are now not saying anything as those tourists stay away! Keep it that way even after Raila becomes president.
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Share with me what Raila has said about Laikipia. Please attach some evidence since there are a lot of stories going around.
And while at it, there is no tourism to Laikipia and most of those ranches are invaded while Uhuru Kenyatta is in power. He did order soldiers there when Theresa May dispatched Johnson to order Uhuru to do so. He saluted and acted after dithering for months. We have that from R. V. Pundit in person as he testified directly to Moon Ki, just incase you need proof.
I am saying this just incase when we take power on September 5th you turn around and claim that it is NASA that has "scared away tourists". You are now not saying anything as those tourists stay away! Keep it that way even after Raila becomes president.
Yes the insecurity has battered the tourism industry in Laikapia (as I had already acknowledged) however burning of cottages has stopped. Clearly Uhuru should have dealt with this more firmly. The good thing is the greater mt.kenya region, Nyeri and meru aren't affected.
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Video - It even worse than I thought.
I have gone back and listened again, and I must say I agree with Kichwa. Raila has not actually mentioned a single tribe here, not even the Maa. My own understanding of it before was jumpin the gun because I came in with the fed interpretion of the reports in mind....hmmm. Maybe he wasn't being stupid afterall. :D He didnt necessarily bring up the issue I assumed he had. It might just be a spin.
Those Maa complaints I heard when Louis Otieno (I think it was) was going around the counties to discuss local matters, about Gusiis (and others) getting land and setting up businesses in a way that doesnt honor local culture (in their minds), if they are still an issue they should not be on the campaign trail: that's the kind of thing we had commissions set up for delicate matters like ethnic integration and land and historical injustices. I am glad it seems Raila was not talking about that though. It seems I fell for the ruse. :D
Whoever spun this was targetting Raila voters from Gusii and Luhya land or perhaps just scaring Kyuks.
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Kadame5,
Jubilee is using this to keep their base excited. Raila is doing the same. It is a game of wits. They know Wanjiku has not time to counter check this. Raila is good as keeping his name on the headlines. These type of baits are used to his advantage he is getting free press out of it
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The real video (which I cannot post to avoid aiding the criminal Jubilee regime) leaves no doubt what Raila meant. He was addressing the dire economic circumstances of Kenyans where they are forced to sell land to educate land. And he addressed the problems of the migrating people. The idea, according to him was, whether good living conditions uniformly applied in Kenya, there would be no need for anybody to move to go a buy land elsewhere. He therefore paused to rhetorically ask "why would he move"?
Jubilee people do not understand that migration is a major indicator of poverty. It causes it and it aggravates it. The migrant is a person with limited rights while the seller of land embarks on a long journey of poverty. That is why Jubilee is not suited to address Poverty in Kenya. They need government for power so they can build palaces and replicas of State House as they compete over who has the "biggest House" between Uhuru and Ruto. Silly really!
Video - It even worse than I thought.
I have gone back and listened again, and I must say I agree with Kichwa. Raila has not actually mentioned a single tribe here, not even the Maa. My own understanding of it before was jumpin the gun because I came in with the fed interpretion of the reports in mind....hmmm. Maybe he wasn't being stupid afterall. :D He didnt necessarily bring up the issue I assumed he had. It might just be a spin.
Those Maa complaints I heard when Louis Otieno (I think it was) was going around the counties to discuss local matters, about Gusiis (and others) getting land and setting up businesses in a way that doesnt honor local culture (in their minds), if they are still an issue they should not be on the campaign trail: that's the kind of thing we had commissions set up for delicate matters like ethnic integration and land and historical injustices. I am glad it seems Raila was not talking about that though. It seems I fell for the ruse. :D
Whoever spun this was targetting Raila voters from Gusii and Luhya land or perhaps just scaring Kyuks.
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It obvious what Raila means by outsiders.
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It obvious what Raila means by outsiders.
I am willing to bet Raila wont go to kiambu, ruaka,mucatha,kinoo areas to discourage locals from selling their land where similar thing is happening. Besides its truly retrogressive to discourage development. The price of land has appreciated in kitengela giving locals a windfall that they can use to advance economically. The locals can lease land, enter into partnership with developers where land is their contribution, borrow against the land etc. Its amazing that someone would argue against asset commercialization. Selling the land its just one of the many things the locals can do with it if that's they deem fit.
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Of course.I am glad Jubilee have unlock lots of land(key economic factor) by issuing nearly 4m title deeds...which I am told is nearly about the same number of titles that have been issued since independence. Jubilee should ensure everyone get a title deed...those who want to sell can sell...those who want to borrow loan from it can borrow..those who want to sit on it can also sit on it. Maasai need education...not huge tracts of land that have never really helped them..a fool and his money will soon part ways. There is nothing Raila or anyone can do to stop a stupid maasai from selling his land cheaply.Kalenjin use to sell lots of land because they were equally illeterate...my grandfather use to wonder why someone would pay for land...according to him land was limiteless..if you need more land..you just move to new place..so many Kalenjin use to sell land and make merry like Maasai are doing now. Moi saved people by banning alcohol and encouraging people to go to schools and church.
I am willing to bet Raila wont go to kiambu, ruaka,mucatha,kinoo areas to discourage locals from selling their land where similar thing is happening. Besides its truly retrogressive to discourage development. The price of land has appreciated in kitengela giving locals a windfall that they can use to advance economically. The locals can lease land, enter into partnership with developers where land is their contribution, borrow against the land etc. Its amazing that someone would argue against asset commercialization. Selling the land its just one of the many things the locals can do with it if that's they deem fit.
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Of course.I am glad Jubilee have unlock lots of land(key economic factor) by issuing nearly 4m title deeds...which I am told is nearly about the same number of titles that have been issued since independence. Jubilee should ensure everyone get a title deed...those who want to sell can sell...those who want to borrow loan from it can borrow..those who want to sit on it can also sit on it. Maasai need education...not huge tracts of land that have never really helped them..a fool and his money will soon part ways. There is nothing Raila or anyone can do to stop a stupid maasai from selling his land cheaply.Kalenjin use to sell lots of land because they were equally illeterate...my grandfather use to wonder why someone would pay for land...according to him land was limiteless..if you need more land..you just move to new place..so many Kalenjin use to sell land and make merry like Maasai are doing now. Moi saved people by banning alcohol and encouraging people to go to schools and church.
I am willing to bet Raila wont go to kiambu, ruaka,mucatha,kinoo areas to discourage locals from selling their land where similar thing is happening. Besides its truly retrogressive to discourage development. The price of land has appreciated in kitengela giving locals a windfall that they can use to advance economically. The locals can lease land, enter into partnership with developers where land is their contribution, borrow against the land etc. Its amazing that someone would argue against asset commercialization. Selling the land its just one of the many things the locals can do with it if that's they deem fit.
Pundit, if that worked for Lenyos then maybe it can work for Maa, education and information that is. Like you say, they don't really appreciate that it is a radically different economy they're operating in.
Hk, what is development if poor people become homeless after selling everything? That radical tea-party spirit has worked only to benefit a few. Countries that care about living conditions of all their people plan their policies on better principles than just 'willing buyer willing seller'.
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No my friend, its only obvious to certain people. Its a politically very polarized country and therefore we hear diametrically different things from the same speech. The notion that advising a poor person NOT to sell his/her only remaining parcel of land is "inciting violence" is ludicrous. Ati since Kenya is a capitalist country "willing seller, willing buyer" one cannot caution poor people not to sell their only buffer to abject poverty. The alarming rate at which millions of Kenyans are spiraling into poverty is a governmental interests which needs immediate attentions than rich peoples rights to amass wealth by buying land from vulnerable poor folks.
It obvious what Raila means by outsiders.
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HK
The day you realize that there is more to life than "windfalls" and profits and what you call "development" is the day you would have become a full citizen of this earth. Right now I think you live on some unknown planet.
I would love to discuss with you "development" because I think you mistake affluence with development. When people engage in poverty creation there is no way on earth that is development. Development is about people. It is not about cement structures, or even shillings and dollars. It is about the happiness of people.
Of course if and when Raila goes to those places, he will have the same message: "You are selling your land to pay fees and buy food. NASA will reduce the cost of living from day one by dismantling famine causing cartels and mafia. NASA will end the payment of school fees and other charges in secondary schools from September. You will therefore have no reason whatever to sell your land".
As usual Jubilee - broke and disorganized - will seize on it and create some narrative.
It obvious what Raila means by outsiders.
I am willing to bet Raila wont go to kiambu, ruaka,mucatha,kinoo areas to discourage locals from selling their land where similar thing is happening. Besides its truly retrogressive to discourage development. The price of land has appreciated in kitengela giving locals a windfall that they can use to advance economically. The locals can lease land, enter into partnership with developers where land is their contribution, borrow against the land etc. Its amazing that someone would argue against asset commercialization. Selling the land its just one of the many things the locals can do with it if that's they deem fit.