Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on March 19, 2017, 04:43:20 PM
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This new approach of mass rallies far and wide is what brought KANU to an end. NASA should continue to organize multiple rallies in different corners of the country.
Jubilee has only two crowd pullers - Uhuru and Ruto. NASA had four (Raila, Kalonzo, Mudavadi and Wetangula). Thanks to Uhuru it now has 5 (Joho).
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Kidero
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With Khalwale: This is Kalonzo's Home Turf. I believe Jubilee propagandists will go into a frenzy. He wants to demonstrate how much support he brings to NASA so his colleagues in NASA can give him the ticket. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Omollo,
So let me get this right (bit dense here); these "leaders" playing mine's-bigger-than-yours, what policies did they articulate during the rally, using examples of their previous successes, to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for, I don't know, subsidized pre-paid Kenya Power meters, so KP doesn't have to fake connections?
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I believe you are recycling the same rhetorical (I would say propagandistic) question you asked last time. Perhaps you can revisit the thread and answer the questions I re-directed to guide me in answering those questions and the new ones as well.
I can say that I have no idea why you are questioning their status as leaders. Kalonzo is the official leader of Wiper Party, Mudavadi is the Leader of ANC while Wetangula heads Ford Kenya. They are followed by elected leaders from various locations. So why are they not measuring up to your yet to be disclosed yardstick?
I have not seen any evidence of anybody playing bigger-than-yours, have you?
Must leaders articulate "policies" at political rallies? I find it a little strange but not entirely surprising that you seem to expect the Opposition to articulate "policies" yet while forgetting that it is in Opposition, you do not require the same of Jubilee which is in government.
Here is the difference:
1. The Opposition can publish its manifesto - a promise of the policies it will pursue in event it wins elections and runs government.
2. The Governing Party should publish policies it is pursuing and will pursue.
You again betray your Jubilee sympathies by asking the same vexatious question that seeks assumes the Opposition is some kind of Government Think Tank: " to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for". Let me repeat that the responsibility of
formulating and implementing policies that would create jobs and bring income to homes lies with the Government. When it fails (as it has clearly failed) we hope wanainchi can get rid of it and elect NASA which would do create jobs and put real money in the hands of the poor with policies that promote household economic independence.
... so KP doesn't have to fake connections?Explain to me how NASA's policies or increased household incomes would prevent Jubilee from LYING about power connections? Even if the poor got jobs and more money from NASA articulating policies at rallies, explain to me how that would prevent Uhuru, Kenya Power etc from telling LIES about Power Connections?
Once more I seem to catch you trying to peddle the jubilee talking points and passing them off as well reasoned scepticism.
Bure tu.
Omollo,
So let me get this right (bit dense here); these "leaders" playing mine's-bigger-than-yours, what policies did they articulate during the rally, using examples of their previous successes, to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for, I don't know, subsidized pre-paid Kenya Power meters, so KP doesn't have to fake connections?
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Quite dry in Kitengela. Pundit may have attended. May he heard something of the policies.
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Kalonzo had dwelled on the Jubîlee propagandists who are smearing him. I doubt they will pay attention:
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I believe you are recycling the same rhetorical (I would say propagandistic) question you asked last time. Perhaps you can revisit the thread and answer the questions I re-directed to guide me in answering those questions and the new ones as well.
I can say that I have no idea why you are questioning their status as leaders. Kalonzo is the official leader of Wiper Party, Mudavadi is the Leader of ANC while Wetangula heads Ford Kenya. They are followed by elected leaders from various locations. So why are they not measuring up to your yet to be disclosed yardstick?
I have not seen any evidence of anybody playing bigger-than-yours, have you?
Must leaders articulate "policies" at political rallies? I find it a little strange but not entirely surprising that you seem to expect the Opposition to articulate "policies" yet while forgetting that it is in Opposition, you do not require the same of Jubilee which is in government.
Here is the difference:
1. The Opposition can publish its manifesto - a promise of the policies it will pursue in event it wins elections and runs government.
2. The Governing Party should publish policies it is pursuing and will pursue.
You again betray your Jubilee sympathies by asking the same vexatious question that seeks assumes the Opposition is some kind of Government Think Tank: " to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for". Let me repeat that the responsibility of
formulating and implementing policies that would create jobs and bring income to homes lies with the Government. When it fails (as it has clearly failed) we hope wanainchi can get rid of it and elect NASA which would do create jobs and put real money in the hands of the poor with policies that promote household economic independence.
... so KP doesn't have to fake connections?Explain to me how NASA's policies or increased household incomes would prevent Jubilee from LYING about power connections? Even if the poor got jobs and more money from NASA articulating policies at rallies, explain to me how that would prevent Uhuru, Kenya Power etc from telling LIES about Power Connections?
Once more I seem to catch you trying to peddle the jubilee talking points and passing them off as well reasoned scepticism.
Bure tu.
Omollo,
So let me get this right (bit dense here); these "leaders" playing mine's-bigger-than-yours, what policies did they articulate during the rally, using examples of their previous successes, to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for, I don't know, subsidized pre-paid Kenya Power meters, so KP doesn't have to fake connections?
Again, weasel words.
All these so-called opposition leaders were at one time or another all in KANU, the party we all know ruined Kenya. They were part and parcel of it. Kidero, how did he leave Mumias? How has he performed at Nairobi County? Every single one of the participants in this rally has a very verifiable history of what they've previously done, how well they accomplished it, whether or not they engaged in corruption, etc.
On the KP article you linked, did you even bother reading it or you just saw something negative about Jubilee and ran with it? Let me quote a very important piece you may have overlooked:
“The company observed that most of these customers took long to exhaust 30 units of electricity advanced to them at the point of installation with the bulk of them consuming less than 2 units per month,” the firm said.
Eng Mwichigi noted that cartels operating mainly in informal settlements were found to have provided customers with alternative illegal supply lines.
Most of the customers who received subsidized connections couldn't afford to pay for electricity so the continued using alternate means to steal power. Jubilee gave chargeable electricity to poor wanainchi who had no means to pay for it due to lack of jobs. Is that so hard to comprehend?
Omollo, I take it you're a smart person and if you simply can't see the connection between what NASA / Jubilee are preaching and what they've actually done / are doing, aside from every single one of them being embroiled in massive corruption scandals at one time or another, there's really nothing I can tell you.
I stand by my words: this pointless rally, just like Jubilee's, is all a matter of mine's-bigger-than-yours, using wanainchi as pawns.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Unlike you I not only read the article, I understood it as well.
1.All these so-called opposition leaders were at one time or another all in KANU, the party we all know ruined Kenya. I can help you with that by far, especially those you have left out:
Uhuru Kenyatta - got his life membership at age ten. Rose through the KANU ranks to become its leader for the second longest period in the party history. He is by far the LONGEST Serving Party Member to leave KANU. He is now The President (sorry not in opposition!)
2. William Ruto - Joined KANU at age 16 (by his own admission). Served as powerful Organizing Secretary of the YK92 and later as the Organizing Secretary of KANU. His party membership totals 25 years (1982 - 2007): From the foregoing, both Uhuru Kenyatta and Ruto have run KANU LONGER and at a higher position than Raila Odinga (who is your target).
I can add that both Ruto and Uhuru have each been in government LONGER than Raila (contrary to the propaganda you and other spread.
3. Kidero, how did he leave Mumias? I have no idea. How did he leave?
4. How has he performed at Nairobi County? How has he performed?
5. Every single one of the participants in this rally has a very verifiable history of what they've previously done, how well they accomplished it, whether or not they engaged in corruption, etc. I guess they do. I just don't get the point, if you are making it, that is...
6. On KPC: The section you quoted simply means KPC expected that the units given (30) should be used up in a given period or could not possibly exceed a certain length of time. When they seemed to exceed, they took steps to find out. Among the things they then discovered is that customers had been handed meters which remained uninstalled and therefore not in use. In other words they could not be buying more power units when they were not connected.
Yes in some cases they found theft. But theft can only be so if the meters are actually connected and working. Yes there are illegal connections (which cannot be counted as part of the achievements, can they?). Are you suggesting that those illegal connections should be counted as part of Jubilee's score card? I am interested to know.
Get it right: Whether someone is paying or not paying is immaterial if he is connected. Kenya Power internal audit (not Omollo) says the figures show people who were NOT connected. Maybe you should actually read the report instead of behaving like Trump (accusing people of what you are guilty of)
You can stand by anything you want - even those that make zero sense. It is your right. Just don't expect to be treated as a neutral observer when you are a Jubilee Whack.
Again, weasel words.
All these so-called opposition leaders were at one time or another all in KANU, the party we all know ruined Kenya. They were part and parcel of it. Kidero, how did he leave Mumias? How has he performed at Nairobi County? Every single one of the participants in this rally has a very verifiable history of what they've previously done, how well they accomplished it, whether or not they engaged in corruption, etc.
On the KP article you linked, did you even bother reading it or you just saw something negative about Jubilee and ran with it? Let me quote a very important piece you may have overlooked:
“The company observed that most of these customers took long to exhaust 30 units of electricity advanced to them at the point of installation with the bulk of them consuming less than 2 units per month,” the firm said.
Eng Mwichigi noted that cartels operating mainly in informal settlements were found to have provided customers with alternative illegal supply lines.
Most of the customers who received subsidized connections couldn't afford to pay for electricity so the continued using alternate means to steal power. Jubilee gave chargeable electricity to poor wanainchi who had no means to pay for it due to lack of jobs. Is that so hard to comprehend?
Omollo, I take it you're a smart person and if you simply can't see the connection between what NASA / Jubilee are preaching and what they've actually done / are doing, aside from every single one of them being embroiled in massive corruption scandals at one time or another, there's really nothing I can tell you.
I stand by my words: this pointless rally, just like Jubilee's, is all a matter of mine's-bigger-than-yours, using wanainchi as pawns.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Let me repeat that the responsibility of formulating and implementing policies that would create jobs and bring income to homes lies with the Government. When it fails (as it has clearly failed) we hope wanainchi can get rid of it and elect NASA which would do create jobs and put real money in the hands of the poor with policies that promote household economic independence.
That is true. But you have missed something fundamental: the Opposition is trying to get into power. So it behooves it to say what it would do differently and how. Even Trump, a very rough-and-ready candidate, had some ideas: people don't like Mexicans, he will build a wall; people complaining about offshoring of jobs, he will whack high tariffs on such and tear up trade deals; people don't like Obamacare, he will get rid of it; etc. It's not enough to merely point out what one doesn't like; one should also give some idea of what one would do about the situation.
Jubilee, on the other had, wishes to stay in power. It should state what which of its policies have been successful and how they will be continued. It should also state what it will do differently that will improve things from the current status.
Neither NASA nor Jubilee is doing what it should be doing: the former has not given anyone reason to believe that it would do better than Jubilee, and Jubilee has not given anyone reason to believe that it would do things differently in the next few years. So Empedocles is quite right that it is all a game of "mine's-bigger-than-yours".
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First of all, the fact that I have not posted here the contents of the rally in no way points at the issues you need to hear (lest you fail to get sleep) having been uttered or not.
I have no such responsibility to post "policies" articulated at rallies. I suggest you attend the next few and participate in the question and answer session. Try to sit at the front.
Secondly, I had no idea that there was such a requirement, namely no political rally shall be held unless the party holding it articulates policies that will help that party get rid of the ruling one. It is not written anywhere and is not part of the Kenyan political behavior.
It is up to the voters to accept or reject a political party. They have so far elected government after another since independence - sometimes without a manifesto. When FORD Kenya wrote a manifesto in 1992, whatever reached the people after the NIS (the Special Branch) broke into the printing press and took away printed copies waiting to be distributed was never read - either out of fear of "being found with a seditious publication", illiteracy or Kiingereza na Kiswahili mingi.. I just wonder why NASA should self bury by running a non conventional campaign.
MoonKi
When the official campaign period starts and NASA has a platform including a flag bearer you will be the first to know what NASA would do differently. There are several political parties in the alliance. The process of merging manifestos and coming out with a Common Manifesto is underway. It is not just the flag bearer that is the issue.
Note that neither Jubilee nor the any of its associate parties have published a manifesto or named a flag bearer. However I am pleased that people like Empedocles and Einstein want NASA to name its flag bearer before Jubilee does.
Summary (out of the goodness of my kind heart):
Kalonzo spoke of ending corruption, appealed for opposition unity .
Wetangula called for the implementation of the Kriegler recommendations before elections. Warned against danger of rigging elections
Let me repeat that the responsibility of formulating and implementing policies that would create jobs and bring income to homes lies with the Government. When it fails (as it has clearly failed) we hope wanainchi can get rid of it and elect NASA which would do create jobs and put real money in the hands of the poor with policies that promote household economic independence.
That is true. But you have missed something fundamental: the Opposition is trying to get into power. So it behooves it to say what it would do differently and how. Even Trump, a very rough-and-ready candidate, had some ideas: people don't like Mexicans, he will build a wall; people complaining about offshoring of jobs, he will whack high tariffs on such and tear up trade deals; people don't like Obamacare, he will get rid of it; etc. It's not enough to merely point out what one doesn't like; one should also give some idea of what one would do about the situation.
Jubilee, on the other had, wishes to stay in power. It should state what which of its policies have been successful and how they will be continued. It should also state what it will do differently that will improve things from the current status.
Neither NASA nor Jubilee is doing what it should be doing: the former has not given anyone reason to believe that it would do better than Jubilee, and Jubilee has not given anyone reason to believe that it would do things differently in the next few years. So Empedocles is quite right that it is all a game of "mine's-bigger-than-yours".
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First of all, the fact that I have not posted here the contents of the rally in no way points at the issues you need to hear (lest you fail to get sleep) were not uttered nor does it it mean they were. I have no such responsibility to post "policies" articulated at rallies.
If they were uttered, then tell us what they were; that should settle the matter quickly. Yes, but you have no responsibility, but if you keep getting worked up and writing pages on all sorts of things' then it is reasonable for people to ask a few questions.
Secondly, I had no idea that there was such a requirement, namely no political rally shall be held unless the party holding it articulates policies that will help that party get rid of the ruling one.
It is not a requirement. It is a matter of simple common sense that stating what one would do to help people is a good idea.
It is up to the voters to accept or reject a political party.
Thank you; that one never occurred to me.
Note that neither Jubilee nor the any of its associate parties have published a manifesto or named a flag bearer. However I am pleased that people like Empedocles want NASA to name its flag bearer before Jubilee does.
Another funny one. People don't know who Jubilee "flag-bearers" are?
Summary: Kalonzo spoke of ending corruption, appealed for opposition unity.
He did? Again? Did he have any ideas of how those might be done, or was he just speaking and appealing?
Wetangula called for the implementation of the Kriegler recommendations before elections.
Now? 4 months to the elections? What a comedian. Who does he have in mind to do that, and is he talking to them?
Warned against danger of rigging elections
Wow. That was a big one.
Corruption should be ended. Opposition should unite. Kreigler now! Rigging is bad. What a rally!!!
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You again betray your Jubilee sympathies by asking the same vexatious question that seeks assumes the Opposition is some kind of Government Think Tank: " to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for".
Why do you keep on wrongly assuming I'm a Jubilee sympathizer? Because I point out how shallow and dishonest NASA is? Well, Jubilee is also shallow and dishonest.
I'll try to be very clear and hope you'll finally understand me: in my opinion, there is absolutely no difference between Jubilee and NASA or whatever moniker these charlatans come up with.
Zero.
Try and think outside the box, wouldn't you?
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Summary (out of the goodness of my kind heart):
Kalonzo spoke of ending corruption, appealed for opposition unity .
Wetangula called for the implementation of the Kriegler recommendations before elections. Warned against danger of rigging elections
Hilarious summary. So Wetangula wants the Kriegler recommendations before elections? Yet when Wetangula was on the winning side (who blatantly rigged! :D :D), he wasn't interested in justice...at all:
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If they were uttered, then tell us what they were; that should settle the matter quickly. Yes, but you have no responsibility, but if you keep getting worked up and writing pages on all sorts of things' then it is reasonable for people to ask a few questions.
Like I said, there is a media with a declared responsibility to report on such. I have however out of the goodness of my very generous and kind heart provided a brief summary for you. I have also tried to explain that until there is a merged manifesto and the official campaign launched, NASA leaders are basically gathering opinion out there. The views they get from wanainchi will form the joint platform.
It is not a requirement. It is a matter of simple common sense that stating what one would do to help people is a good idea.
These rallies are filling up to capacity. I am sure they would be empty like Ruto's in Mumias, if NASA leaders kept returning without what the people want to hear. I urge you to attend a few. We have traditional dances, mashairi (some pillorying Uhuru and Ruto), criticism of government performance generally, outline of the general direction a NASA government would go. For instance in Tana River, Joho has promised to work hard to ensure that a Raila Odinga Government spread some Port roles from Mombasa and Lamu to Tana River. To get more please attend the rallies and do not be passive
It is up to the voters to accept or reject a political party.
Thank you; that one never occurred to me.
You are most welcome
The process of merging manifestors and coming out with a Common Manifesto is underway. It is not just the flag bearer that is the issue.
That's very funny. How can they merge what they don't have? What and where and the manifestos of the individual parties?
Who said individual parties in NASA have no manifestos?
Note that neither Jubilee nor the any of its associate parties have published a manifesto or named a flag bearer. However I am pleased that people like Empedocles want NASA to name its flag bearer before Jubilee does.
Another funny one. People don't know who Jubilee "flag-bearers" are?Are you trying some "editing" trickery? I said " named a flag bearer. " . If I am wrong please kindly refer me to the link where I can find the said name and when it was made, following what Party General meeting. Jubilee Party is a NEW Party. It has never existed before. It does not yet have ELECTED National Officials that would constitute legal decision making organs. Now do correct me if I am wrong. Jubilee has NOT named its flag bearer. I am at loss why you find it funny!!!
Summary: Kalonzo spoke of ending corruption, appealed for opposition unity.
He did? Again? Did he have any ideas of how those might be done, or was he just speaking and appealing?What difference does it make? He is not in government. He can only suggest or propose.
Wetangula called for the implementation of the Kriegler recommendations before elections.
Now? 4 months to the elections? What a comedian.
Especially NOW that the 5 months recommended by Kriegler have been eaten into...
Warned against danger of rigging elections
[quote="MoonKi]Wow. That was a big one.
I am pleased you are so impressed!
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I have had to waste my time watching and listening to this video.
I see no relevance. In it Wetangula is discussing US-Kenya relations. The journalist speculates that the Envoy handed Wetangula 15 names of Reform Opponents banned from US visits. Nowhere does Wetangula say he opposed "justice". There was no discussion of justice or the Kriegler Report.
So what is the relevance of this tape?
Summary (out of the goodness of my kind heart):
Kalonzo spoke of ending corruption, appealed for opposition unity .
Wetangula called for the implementation of the Kriegler recommendations before elections. Warned against danger of rigging elections
Hilarious summary. So Wetangula wants the Kriegler recommendations before elections? Yet when Wetangula was on the winning side (who blatantly rigged! :D :D), he wasn't interested in justice...at all:
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I have however out of the goodness of my very generous and kind heart provided a brief summary for you.
That little joke?
These rallies are filling up to capacity. I am sure they would be empty like Ruto's in Mumias, if NASA leaders kept returning without what the people want to hear.
Really? In a country where idle and bored people will gather at anything that offers "relief"---a road accident, a police killing, news that a couple is "stuck" in some room, etc.
I urge you to attend a few ... For instance in Tana River, Joho has promised to work hard to ensure that a Raila Odinga Government spread some Port roles from Mombasa and Lamu to Tana River.
Yes, hearing Joho promise to work hard is reason enough to attend one of these things.
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I am not obliged to provide an account of the political rallies. I used to text parliamentary proceedings from Kenya to RCB and TOP in those days when TV could not be seen outside the borders and the government was scared of the internet. I stopped the service. The things we do when idealists!
Believe it or not people can and do stay away from rallies. Just ask Ruto when he is hiring buses from Nandi and Uasin Gishu schools to ferry people to Mumias so he can scare GEMA with his "Luhya Support" and get more money for Luhya Bribes.
You asked for the details of the NASA policies. Obviously you won't like some like the promise by Joho. You may not even find any important. That is nature of a manifesto. If you don't like it I hope you then vote for the one you like. Perhaps Jubilee.l
I have however out of the goodness of my very generous and kind heart provided a brief summary for you.
That little joke?
These rallies are filling up to capacity. I am sure they would be empty like Ruto's in Mumias, if NASA leaders kept returning without what the people want to hear.
Really? In a country where idle and bored people will gather at anything that offers "relief"---a road accident, a police killing, news that a couple is "stuck" in some room, etc.
I urge you to attend a few ... For instance in Tana River, Joho has promised to work hard to ensure that a Raila Odinga Government spread some Port roles from Mombasa and Lamu to Tana River.
Yes, hearing Joho promise to work hard is reason enough to attend one of these things.
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I am convinced by the evidence that you are pro-Jubilee.
You do question NASA and before that CORD. I could never take away that from you. However it is limited to NASA / CORD. You do not subject Jubilee to the same scrutiny.
I have also noted that you extract your interrogation questions from Jubilee talking points.
You again betray your Jubilee sympathies by asking the same vexatious question that seeks assumes the Opposition is some kind of Government Think Tank: " to help poor wanainchi get jobs so we can pay for".
Why do you keep on wrongly assuming I'm a Jubilee sympathizer? Because I point out how shallow and dishonest NASA is? Well, Jubilee is also shallow and dishonest.
I'll try to be very clear and hope you'll finally understand me: in my opinion, there is absolutely no difference between Jubilee and NASA or whatever moniker these charlatans come up with.
Zero.
Try and think outside the box, wouldn't you?
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I am convinced by the evidence that you are pro-Jubilee.
You do question NASA and before that CORD. I could never take away that from you. However it is limited to NASA / CORD. You do not subject Jubilee to the same scrutiny.
I have also noted that you extract your interrogation questions from Jubilee talking points.
Whatever makes your day, amigo.
You're here 24/7 trying to flog product A as a superior replacement to product B. So why should I question you on product B, cause that ain't what you're trying to sell to us here? I'm questioning why you insist product A is what's best for us and why we should buy it. Defend your product.
Kapisch?
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I am not obliged to provide an account of the political rallies.
No, you are not obliged to. But when you come here all excited and spewing pages on how great NASA is, you should expect a few questions.
You asked for the details of the NASA policies. Obviously you won't like some like the promise by Joho.
A promise by Joho to "work hard to ensure that a Raila Odinga Government spread some Port roles from Mombasa and Lamu to Tana River" is an example of the details of NASA policies? Amazing. And Kalonzo will work hard on corruption, Wetangula on Kriegler report, etc., right?
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Empedocles
I hope how I spend my time does not unduly disturb your peace. As a matter of fact I have no idea if you waste it all in a bar drinking mugs of alcohol and still assume you spend it well. I really don't worry or care how you employ it. I hope we don't have to go there.
For the record I stayed out of the 2013 elections and a long period before and after. I am not even sure I ever logged in here for several years. I have never "sold" any political idea. I am sad and personally angered by the massive poverty I see in Kenya and would support anybody who I feel could do something about it. That is why though I did not support Uhuru, I stayed neutral and gave him time to show if he was serious about his manifesto. He proved he was a big LIAR.
If you think NASA (which is not and has never held government) is the same as Jubilee which is currently with government then I can only say cheat watu wengine that you are not a Jubilee supporter.
It is easy to make those statements about NASA being the same as Jubilee etc (what a huge benefit that bestows on Jubilee) but when asked to support it fail with inevitable matusi or declaratory dismissal.
I cannot even compare Jubilee to the Moi Regime. The amount of money stolen by Uhuru people makes Moi a pick pocket. That is the governmment you compare to NASA?
I am aware that the Jubilee line is Raila did nothing when he was in government. That is the sort of statement that is propagandist. It does not lend itself to interrogation nor does it provide any answers. Thzat is your starting point.
Did Raila run his own government? If he did, Uhuru was number two in that government. If he did not then he can't be held accountable but not Uhuru.
At the end of the day, it is what politicians are doing now that should count. The Moi era with its one-èarty dictatorship is kind of hard to use to gauge people. The Kibaki pre-New Katiba period is equally contaminated.
However such a nuanced view is inconvenient to Jubilee and its supporters - public ones and those in closets,
Whatever makes your day, amigo.
You're here 24/7 trying to flog product A as a superior replacement to product B. So why should I question you on product B, cause that ain't what you're trying to sell to us here? I'm questioning why you insist product A is what's best for us and why we should buy it. Defend your product.
Kapisch?