Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Simanova on August 17, 2016, 07:01:34 PM
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RIP.
This man was very awfully treated. He was surrounded by thieves and poachers and he wasn't allowed to take action against them. He did 6 months in a dirty prison for that.
I have great sympathy for him seeing how people treat my own property - helping themselves to whatever they find and believing they have the "right" to steal.
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If this is the same Cholmondeley who was in the news a few years ago, I don't feel much loss. This guy gratuitously murdered a poor guy trying to eke a living leaving behind a widow and kids. From what I know the man was a racist who had no qualms about killing any black African.
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That's odd, I heard something about him a couple days ago for an investment project... oh gosh what was it... so much on my mind right now... it'll come to me.
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I think he was shot... not heart failure.
.......odd. I thought the following company was Cholmondeley- Kenya owned
NGOMBE PTY LTD
ACN: 613141085
https://www.aus61business.com/company/-1795
Ngombe Pty Ltd was incorporated on 21 June 2016 (Tuesday)and as of 11 August 2016 (Thursday) is a Registered Australian Private Company.
This Australian Private Company have been operating for 57 days.
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Heart failure at age of 47. What caused it.
I believe he was fit before the operation. Maybe he developed lung clot after operation. Not uncommon after hip , knee or pelvic surgery. He should have flown to America , Britain or South Africa for the hip surgery. I would trust Kenya surgeon to touch my joints.
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You're right. Unless you have a good post op team, recovery is not certain.
Heart failure at age of 47. What caused it.
I believe he was fit before the operation. Maybe he developed lung clot after operation. Not uncommon after hip , knee or pelvic surgery. He should have flown to America , Britain or South Africa for the hip surgery. I would trust Kenya surgeon to touch my joints.
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If negligence is involved I would love to see manslaughter indictments and cancelled licenses. It is sad to see folks endorsing jungle rule... while decrying impunity in the banana republic elsewhere. We can't have our cake and eat it.
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unlikely a cardio-thoracic specialist was on standby.. per province there's like one of them and they come and go. what were they thinking opting for elective surgery in Kenya.
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MP Shah Hospital has allegedly refused to release the body of Naivasha ranch owner Thomas (Tom) Cholmondeley who died on Wednesday.
Reports received by the Star on Thursday indicated Cholmondeley's family members were turned away when they asked for his body.
The family wanted to transfer the body to Lee Funeral Home for an independent postmortem.
"Everyone wants to know why he was taken into ICU after a standard procedure that is normally under local/spinal anaesthetic," a family member told The Star.
When reached for a comment, Anup Das, CEO of the hospital in Nairobi, said: "Please ask their lawyers. They are the best people to answer."
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Cholmondeley a famous Kenyan farmer of British ancestry, died aged 48, after a hip replacement surgery
He was the son of the 5th Lord Delamere, one of the first and most influential British settlers in Kenya.
More on this : Aristocrat Tom Cholmondeley, accused twice of murder, dies aged 48
Tom was wheeled into one of the theatres at MP Shah on Wednesday morning and was looking forward to a routine two-hour hip replacement procedure.
Neeraj Krishna, his orthopaedic surgeon, was at hand with a team of doctors.
After all the British aristocrat and great grandson of Lord Delamere was no stranger to Krishna. He has been their family doctor for years and has carried out similar operations on Cholmondeley's mother.
The team of doctors prepared the patient for the operation without a hitch. In about two hours the operation was over and the new hip carefully rammed into place.
Out of the blue, the heart monitor screen sent doctors in the theatre into alarm. The readings were disturbing.
There was too much pressure on the heart. This happened soon after the process of getting the patient out of the coma induced by anaesthetic drugs.
By 10.30 am, what was a simple operation turned into a huge life-saving emergency, a doctor at the hospital told The Star. The heart had stopped.
The hospital scrambled some of its top cardiologists to save the patient.
But three hours of electric shock after electric shock and a myriad of procedures to get the heart beating again sadly produced no result.
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"Tom had met his wife in hospital after being attacked in the Masai Mara by a buffalo that had gored him, its horn piercing his thigh, ripping through his knee and coming out at his ankle."
"His great-grandfather was infamous for riding his horse through the Norfolk Hotel in Nairobi and shooting the lights out as he jumped over the tables. The imprisonment of Cholmondeley symbolised the declining power of wealthy white-settler families."
www.standard.co.uk/news/in-shock-the-girlfriend-who-was-sure-tom-would-go-free-6720693.html
I suspect fowl play here. Reading from above article, there's just too many people related people who have died along the way!
Traditional doctors could perform brain surgery many years ago, so I do not swallow anything that this was natural... Iko kitu.
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If negligence is involved I would love to see manslaughter indictments and cancelled licenses. It is sad to see folks endorsing jungle rule... while decrying impunity in the banana republic elsewhere. We can't have our cake and eat it.
I just have to clarify that my opinion of him as a person I won't miss is not to suggest he is not entitled to his due process.
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The Delamare have no business owning all that land from Naivasha to Nakuru . They need to ship out.
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over a 100 000 acres in the Rift Valley.. for one plot. They carry around hunting rifles and go hunting, yet complain about poachers. The folly of owning that much land is a testament to much needed modern-day land reforms. A science-based redistribution zoning out wildlife regions where there are nests, flocks etc. protected from land development.
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How many acres does kenya leading political families own, plus overseas companies such as uniliver?
If at all that land is nativised, it probably end up in politically connected individuals.
Does anyone have a clue on whose land Naivasha industrial zones will sit??
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It's already privately owned. It needs to be seized or donated for public use... like public housing, public land, conservation. I think in Kenya's case more like Cuba.. equitable land use. The very thing opposed by Jubilee and their white masters. Who are they trying to fool with that Cholmondeley incident. I think however in Kenya's case there's probably more to it. Like in the event Israel doesn't work out for the Zionists, I'm wondering whether they'll ship them out to the Rift Valley. Maybe that's why they want to retain land ownership. I mean when you think about it, if the world ends in the way of exhausted resources, over population etc. since 80% of the world's raw material comes from the continent Africa, Kenya would be the most sustainable continent.. I wonder if they've built underground bunkers on vacant land... or illegal facilities of all sorts.
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Land should be allocated to the most productive entity... not the poorest. Within a decade you would have slams in place of the picturesque farms and ranches.
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Public housing should be for poor people because they don't do anything with it except maybe grow lettuce or something. The govt can always add caveats it to it, like you must grow a certain amount of maize each year or you need to pay more tax or carry out more community service hours. If you give a rich guy land he'll turn it into factories, polluting the air with carcinogens. He's not going to just sit there marveling his picturesque ranches, and like hell he's going to pick up a hoe and plant a potato. He'll use it for hunting illegal game like the Cholmondeley's if he's already rich, if not too rich he'll build factories.
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The land should be placed in productive hands like Unilever. Or just remain with the Delameres. The plain- and hillscapes are panoramic. Just by the highway you have fresh aura of pure greenery...
Poor folks breed like roaches, truth be told. We know how it would look in a few years, while the Cholmondeleys have maintained the lovely scenery for a century.
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This is Kenya- predominantly agrarian, not some welfare providing urbanized nation.
Most Kenyans are farmers and the reason why urban slums even exist in Kenya is because those farmer's children have no land and have no choice but to scrape a living in urban regions while slumming it. The govt needs able bodies slumming it and providing cheap labor to run cities. If the govt gave away land, there's no need to slum anymore, with land- grow food, sell food, eat food, build mudhut, make babies, raise babies - bliss.
The Kenyan dream is saving up to purchase land and build a beloved shamba. You go to any Kenyan owned shamba from Western to Mombasa with povo owners and it's in absolute simbiosis harmony with flora/fauna even with overpopulated "roaches".
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OK. Let the distribution be done. Once the new owners cash out in tiny plots we see if there will be any haciendas. Even the current country sides are slowly degrading into slums with overdivision and overpopulation.
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PUBLIC provision with caveats. Caveats like keeping it well maintained so the land become theirs (private) in 10 years or something if they maintain it well. Smart distribution, so being mindful of conservation areas.
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OK. Let the distribution be done. Once the new owners cash out in tiny plots we see if there will be any haciendas. Even the current country sides are slowly degrading into slums with overdivision and overpopulation.
You don't like the sight of the poor. So better we keep them out of sight?
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OK. Let the distribution be done. Once the new owners cash out in tiny plots we see if there will be any haciendas. Even the current country sides are slowly degrading into slums with overdivision and overpopulation.
You don't like the sight of the poor. So better we keep them out of sight?
I like veritas's proposal - public housing with strings attached. No subdivision.
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Here we go again.
Needless to say I disagree with all of you on Delamare land. Let me put it this way: If any attempt is made to expropriate private land in Kenya such a Delamere's I shall oppose it. He is one of the few settlers who actually bought his land. He made a decision to stay in Kenya and continue farming. All that when he could have move to Rhodesia or South Africa. The Delamere's have earned the Kenyanship and shall be treated as any other Kenyan before the law.
I have not forgiven the government of Kenya for depriving Waitiki of his land in Mombasa. I will never forgive that. Never!
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he should've donated that land for public benefit, like build a museum, reserve, agriculture school etc. that's what respected land owners from that generation have done. My grandparents owned hoardes of land in Korea.. size of a large city passed down from centuries and they donated most it away to the public and to Americans (for military use). Hoarding land and doing nothing with it breeds poverty. It's not characteristic of conscionable land owners today. Respected land owners today in Kenya work with for instance the UN and grow crops for WFP, run conservation/tourist circuits. Only keep a a couple hundred acres for themselves. Hoarding over 100 000 acres and doing nothing with it like help the economy is downright criminal.
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Delamere land is the most utilized of all the mega estates in Kenya. U want idle land then start looking at the likes of The Late Bernard Hinga, Mwai Kibaki, Kenyatta and Moi.
he should've donated that land for public benefit, like build a museum, reserve, agriculture school etc. that's what respected land owners from that generation have done. My grandparents owned hoardes of land in Korea.. size of a large city passed down from centuries and they donated most it away to the public and to Americans (for military use). Hoarding land and doing nothing with it breeds poverty. It's not characteristic of conscionable land owners today. Respected land owners today in Kenya work with for instance the UN and grow crops for WFP, run conservation/tourist circuits. Only keep a a couple hundred acres for themselves. Hoarding over 100 000 acres and doing nothing with it like help the economy is downright criminal.
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The Naivasha one is utilized...the Gilgil all the way to Lake Nakuru is a game reserve. It time they sold the land.
Delamere land is the most utilized of all the mega estates in Kenya. U want idle land then start looking at the likes of The Late Bernard Hinga, Mwai Kibaki, Kenyatta and Moi.
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Chomi re-fenced that game reserve after the locals stole the poles. The so called KWS warders including the one shot were just poaching zebras and selling the meat in Nairobi. He tried to get help when it wasn't coming he armed himself and his people and managed to scare many away.
I fail to understand why a game reserve is not proper land use? Do you for example feel the same about Maasai mara? Shouldn't the land be used for farming wheat and barley?
Delamere needs support to improve that game reserve. Had he not owned the land you can sure there would be no single wild animal between Malaba and Mtito Andei. Most of the land which used to be home to elephants, lions, giraffes and so on was grabbed by one ethnic group as it expanded in to RV.
The Naivasha one is utilized...the Gilgil all the way to Lake Nakuru is a game reserve. It time they sold the land.
Delamere land is the most utilized of all the mega estates in Kenya. U want idle land then start looking at the likes of The Late Bernard Hinga, Mwai Kibaki, Kenyatta and Moi.
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Are wild animals now better than poor kenyans who don't have any other skills except to forage their land. Gov should acquire Delemare land and settle the landless there. The delamare have no right to own all that land. I don't know who they bought the land from. They certainly didn't buy from the Maasai who owned it. They acquired that land through dodgy deals and brought in many white settlers to grab more and more of Kenyan land. I have no sympathy for Delameres and they need to ship out pronto.
He can go to Zim - or RSA - where he will be kicked out eventually. Delemare should own now more than say 10 acres. That is the only consolation they should be granted. Owning more than 100,000 of acres acquired during colonial period is unjust in some many levels.
White large scale farmers claiming land due to some colonial rule should ship out pronto. I have no isssue with Asian or white owning lilttle plots in town, working in industries and companies. The very idea of a white large scale farmer who grabbed African land owning obnoxious land is very revolting.
Kenyattas,Watikis and Mois can own that land - they're kenyan heroes. Delamare is the reason we celebrate Jamhuri. He can pretend to be a kenyan ..but we certainly know they've got the British citizenship.
I totally support Mugabe restoring land back to Africans.
Chomi re-fenced that game reserve after the locals stole the poles. The so called KWS warders including the one shot were just poaching zebras and selling the meat in Nairobi. He tried to get help when it wasn't coming he armed himself and his people and managed to scare many away.
I fail to understand why a game reserve is not proper land use? Do you for example feel the same about Maasai mara? Shouldn't the land be used for farming wheat and barley?
Delamere needs support to improve that game reserve. Had he not owned the land you can sure there would be no single wild animal between Malaba and Mtito Andei. Most of the land which used to be home to elephants, lions, giraffes and so on was grabbed by one ethnic group as it expanded in to RV.
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Before we go any further I need some clarification from you. This will help streamline the discussion:
1. Is this new preference for "poor Kenyans" only relevant in the case of Delamere land or all idle land in Kenya
2. Does it (preference for "Poor Kenyans") extend to grabbed and stolen land?
Let me know your comments on how he "didn't buy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Cholmondeley,_3rd_Baron_Delamere) [his land] from the Maasai":
He received a 99-year lease on 100,000 acres (400 km2) of land that would be named 'Equator Ranch', requiring him to pay a £200 annual rent and to spend £5,000 on the land over the first five years of occupancy
I am assuming you know how to tell the difference between the British Government and private citizen Lord Delamere.
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There is nothing new in my stance.It relevant only to Delemare and the other colonialist who acquired land under doggy circumstances. These include those owning land in Kericho, Bomet, Nandi, Laikipia, Nakuru, Narok, Kajiado and coast. I am talking about British Colonial white settler who chose to stay around. I think Kenyatta made a mistake by giving the option to stay and own the land. They should have stayed but NOT own any land. Except those that they bought post 1963.
Delemare was given free land by the British Gov. Land that had been forcefully grabbed. Land that was illegal ab-initio.
I support the same land seizure in Kenya, South Africa and Zim. They are free to remain Kenyans but without the land. The gov should compensate them for all investment but the land should revert to the communities. In this case the whole of delemare land should be given back to Maasai or Nakuru county as a trustland for be managed for the benefit of those guys or even be subdivided and given to many maasai squattors living in Nairobi or elsewhere.
Delemare was the "prime minister" of settlers and was responsible for shipping many of them to Kenya. He deserve nothing. No respect.
Before we go any further I need some clarification from you. This will help streamline the discussion:
1. Is this new preference for "poor Kenyans" only relevant in the case of Delamere land or all idle land in Kenya
2. Does it (preference for "Poor Kenyans") extend to grabbed and stolen land?
Let me know your comments on how he "didn't buy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Cholmondeley,_3rd_Baron_Delamere) [his land] from the Maasai":
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So your position is based purely on RACISM.
I guess if a Luo seized Kipsigis land around Litein all the way deep past Mogogosiek and the hills above during the same time as Delamere was buying his piece from the British government, you Pundit will have no problem with that would you? The Luo would not be a colonist and certainly not white or British like Delamere.
The British government gave out cash (initially a loan which was written off) to purchase those farms / lands from the whites. Care to explain why Kenyatta did not buy it?
BTW there was no shortage of land to be purchased. In fact Uhuru Kenyatta's father was quoted as telling the Brits that they had bought back enough land to settle citizens. In fact on paper Uhuru's father's government did meet the targets set. Where did the land go brother Pundit so that we now want to take what we did not want on the grounds that we had "enough"?
Why can't we start with the largest land owner in Kenya - The Kenyatta family before stealing the "small" farm belonging to Delamere and which he ACTUALLY uses!!!
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Nope. It not based on racism. The land grab of course was based on racism...so it easy to misconstrue my stance as racism. It isn't. NLC & our court have investigate the historical injustice that racist british colonilial gov used to illegally grab land. Delemare was the head of that land grab for most of that period.
That is where it all started. Way back in 1900 to 1960. Maybe you feel nothing because the Land in Luo or Western was largely left intact. My great grandfather were evicted to create space in Kericho tea farms by Delamare and his goons.
We need to correct that before we go to Kenyatta. Kenyatta is a kenyan heroe who fought for independence. He deserve that land more than Delemare (a Kenya villain). Delamare have done what with the land...produce a few kilos of milk....compared to Kenyatta's brookside..arguably African biggest dairy company. What are you're smoking!
Delemare to their credit helped introduce modern agriclture to kenya but they've clearly lost it--started shooting locals - and cannot use that land --except as animal park. In the meantime you should see how Kikuyu people have build the whole of Naivasha-Nakuru corridor. The gov should simply buy him off - leave him with the one in Naivasha - and distribute the other ones to kenyans.
So your position is based purely on RACISM.
I guess if a Luo seized Kipsigis land around Litein all the way deep past Mogogosiek and the hills above during the same time as Delamere was buying his piece from the British government, you Pundit will have no problem with that would you? The Luo would not be a colonist and certainly not white or British like Delamere.
The British government gave out cash (initially a loan which was written off) to purchase those farms / lands from the whites. Care to explain why Kenyatta did not buy it?
BTW there was no shortage of land to be purchased. In fact Uhuru Kenyatta's father was quoted as telling the Brits that they had bought back enough land to settle citizens. In fact on paper Uhuru's father's government did meet the targets set. Where did the land go brother Pundit so that we now want to take what we did not want on the grounds that we had "enough"?
Why can't we start with the largest land owner in Kenya - The Kenyatta family before stealing the "small" farm belonging to Delamere and which he ACTUALLY uses!!!
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I still see racism in the whole thing.
Let me ask this: If a woman was walking home and say a guy - Mr. Original Ravisher - started raping her.
Then another guy say - Rapinator - came along and put a stop to and offered to take the poor girl to her home.
However on the way he too starts raping the girl. Which of these is more guilty
So please offer your best Solomonic Judgment on this case that I say does not require the gods to decipher.
Did I add that Rapinnator is actually related to the girl and he is a folk hero having killed the dangerous Black Bird and composed a song about it called "Song of the Black Bird"
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Can we not discuss Mr Original without bringing in other rapists? The issue here is about DELEMARE and whether he deserve to keep 100,000 acres. We will discuss Kenyatta, Moi and all the rest in another day. Keep it this about Delemare and whether he should keep the land he illegally acquired that stretches kms. I think he shouldn't, Maasai should sue him and get back their land.
I still see racism in the whole thing.
Let me ask this: If a woman was walking home and say a guy - Mr. Original Ravisher - started raping her.
Then another guy say - Rapinator - came along and put a stop to and offered to take the poor girl to her home.
However on the way he too starts raping the girl. Which of these is more guilty
So please offer your best Solomonic Judgment on this case that I say does not require the gods to decipher.
Did I add that Rapinnator is actually related to the girl and he is a folk hero having killed the dangerous Black Bird and composed a song about it called "Song of the Black Bird"
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OK. Let the distribution be done. Once the new owners cash out in tiny plots we see if there will be any haciendas. Even the current country sides are slowly degrading into slums with overdivision and overpopulation.
You don't like the sight of the poor. So better we keep them out of sight?
I like veritas's proposal - public housing with strings attached. No subdivision.
Sounds good. I still think the Cholmondeley crew should pack up and leave, just as a separate matter.
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Game reserve is what they put on paper to mean I don't have the money to invest in it.
When the Japanese colonialized Korea they stole a lot of land. They tried to grab all of my great grandparents land but soon realized it was way too much and the Japs didn't have the money, laborers and so forth to secure that much land. They couldn't weavle into the Korean chaste system because each aristocrat was like a monarchy, and had birth right loyalists with assistants ranging in the hundreds. Unlike under resourced Maasais in Kenya, the aristocrats/land owners in Korea were able to hold onto portions of their land. So the Japs stole what they could under the auspices of "game reserve" whatever.
To ensure those Japs didn't steal more land, my great grandparents gave land to the Americans, my grandparents more. The yankees naturally built airbases, military base etc. place where my mother and I was born.
Much or the North was dominated by Korea's aristocrats and to shut off the Japs, North Korea was formed. The South were poor farmers with sparse aristocratic families mostly land owning farmers with royal birth rights. Of course along the way, plebish Koreans took advantage of this foreign intrusion and rose to prominent govt positions, foreign favor etc. and like the Kenyattas killed foreign/Japanese land grabbers and stole the land for themselves. Cholmondeley's death was no accident.
Korea was thoroughly raped by small wars throughout history, many lives lost around the world during the Korean war etc. but what divides Korea today is the notion that those Japs/foreigners will colonialize Korea again. At the crux of it all, it's about land ownership, the fear of having one's motherland taken away. It's really what binds those aristocratic lineages in the North.
Poverty, corruption, stagnation persistent in Kenya today seems very much to do with unresolved land woes. Land is precious. It strengthens or weakens sovereignty. We forget that the inhabitants of long gone centuries are buried beneath that soil and truth, liberation and progress are mysteries revealed to the rightful descendants.
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Thanks veri. This is very illuminating post on Korea. I totally agree that Land is precious. Some countries even cap the amount a foreigner can own. For me I believe we should give poor peasant as much land as possible; as those with skills, education, resources and etc move up the economic ladder; and own buildings, industries, hotels, shares, equity etc. The poor peasant whose only skills is to forage land for food should be given land. Kenya is an example that output won't suffer just because the landholding is small. So we shouldn't worry.This delemare land is a low hanging fruit which gov should take....and set up say public institutions on it...build industries name it. The land is very prime now - Nakuru-Nairobi -is a place many companies would die to set up.
I hope the delemares read the writting on the wall and ship out.
Game reserve is what they put on paper to mean I don't have the money to invest in it.
When the Japanese colonialized Korea they stole a lot of land. They tried to grab all of my great grandparents land but soon realized it was way too much and the Japs didn't have the money, laborers and so forth to secure that much land. They couldn't weavle into the Korean chaste system because each aristocrat was like a monarchy, and had birth right loyalists with assistants ranging in the hundreds. Unlike under resourced Maasais in Kenya, the aristocrats/land owners in Korea were able to hold onto portions of their land. So the Japs stole what they could under the auspices of "game reserve" whatever.
To ensure those Japs didn't steal more land, my great grandparents gave land to the Americans, my grandparents more. The yankees naturally built airbases, military base etc. place where my mother and I was born.
Much or the North was dominated by Korea's aristocrats and to shut off the Japs, North Korea was formed. The South were poor farmers with sparse aristocratic families mostly land owning farmers with royal birth rights. Of course along the way, plebish Koreans took advantage of this foreign intrusion and rose to prominent govt positions, foreign favor etc. and like the Kenyattas killed foreign/Japanese land grabbers and stole the land for themselves. Cholmondeley's death was no accident.
Korea was thoroughly raped by small wars throughout history, many lives lost around the world during the Korean war etc. but what divides Korea today is the notion that those Japs/foreigners will colonialize Korea again. At the crux of it all, it's about land ownership, the fear of having one's motherland taken away. It's really what binds those aristocratic lineages in the North.
Poverty, corruption, stagnation persistent in Kenya today seems very much to do with unresolved land woes. Land is precious. It strengthens or weakens sovereignty. We forget that the inhabitants of long gone centuries are buried beneath that soil and truth, liberation and progress are mysteries revealed to the rightful descendants.
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Let me also add, I pay $1200 per quarterly in land tax, $5000 a year for quarter of an acre in Sydney, Australia. In 5 years that amounts to $25 000. In Delemare's case, he should be paying $10 billion dollars for 5 years in land tax, that's the kind of revenue the public till can be making on land alone. Owning land means having the revenue to keep that land. These are land reforms that should have been implements post-colonialism. That's something a Kenyatta presidency and his British counterparts will never endorse, and the very fundamental reason why Kenya is still so poor.
Before we go any further I need some clarification from you. This will help streamline the discussion:
1. Is this new preference for "poor Kenyans" only relevant in the case of Delamere land or all idle land in Kenya
2. Does it (preference for "Poor Kenyans") extend to grabbed and stolen land?
Let me know your comments on how he "didn't buy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Cholmondeley,_3rd_Baron_Delamere) [his land] from the Maasai":
He received a 99-year lease on 100,000 acres (400 km2) of land that would be named 'Equator Ranch', requiring him to pay a £200 annual rent and to spend £5,000 on the land over the first five years of occupancy
I am assuming you know how to tell the difference between the British Government and private citizen Lord Delamere.
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Thanks RVP.
Thanks veri. This is very illuminating post on Korea. I totally agree that Land is precious. Some countries even cap the amount a foreigner can own. For me I believe we should give poor peasant as much land as possible; as those with skills, education, resources and etc move up the economic ladder; and own buildings, industries, hotels, shares, equity etc. The poor peasant whose only skills is to forage land for food should be given land. Kenya is an example that output won't suffer just because the landholding is small. So we shouldn't worry.This delemare land is a low hanging fruit which gov should take....and set up say public institutions on it...build industries name it. The land is very prime now - Nakuru-Nairobi -is a place many companies would die to set up.
I hope the delemares read the writting on the wall and ship out.
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In kenya, you only pay land rate (land tax) if you own a commercial plot. So this happens in urban areas. I think the Brits had this kind of taxation (hut tax) but after independence it was abandoned coz it had bad reputation. The issue is more complex than taxing Kenyatta or Delemare - coz you'll have to ensare the very poor. They won't afford to pay taxes and soon their land will be auctioned.
The solution I see is for gov to compulisory acquire those land for public projects such as an airport or industrial park or university or resettling poor people.
Let me also add, I pay $1200 per quarterly in land tax, $5000 a year for quarter of an acre in Sydney, Australia. In 5 years that amounts to $25 000. In Delemare's case, he should be paying $10 billion dollars for 5 years in land tax, that's the kind of revenue the public till can be making on land alone. Owning land means having the revenue to keep that land. These are land reforms that should have been implements post-colonialism. That's something a Kenyatta presidency and his British counterparts will never endorse, and the very fundamental reason why Kenya is still so poor.
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I see. In Australia, your house to your office, it's the same amount determined by square footage. That's why investors build tall buildings to minimize land tax. The only difference is location, more opulent or more urban areas need to pay higher land tax. Kenya however, compared to Australia doesn't have a lot of land so land tax should be higher like Korea.
The type of housing matters. It would be unwise to give low-incomes families a house- more appropriate to build a public apartment block and make it affordable so everyone can pay a portion of that land tax. These are highly specialized, sciency economics calculations determined by lots of statistical factors- wage, location, employment rates, potential income etc.
I think there needs to be a balance of private and public. For instance a private park is usually better maintained than a public park. Because the govt still needs to find funds to maintain public sites. Sometimes half private, half public is a balanced alternative to plug those deficits. Like half public hospital for everyone, half private for those with medical insurance.
Just seizing land can cause a litany of lawsuits, the govt can't get away with that without paying sufficient compensation, not to mention costs to hire lawyers dragging up to 20 years for a settlement.
I think the best way is to implement land tax and let the owners decide. If they can afford to pay land tax like $10 billion dollars in 5 years then so be it. Highly unlikely though. The govt should focus on prime land locations where it urgently needs attention. Like building a public hospital in Busia because it has the highest HIV rate. Building an elephant conservation center on a portion of Delamare's land because elephants are at risk etc. etc.
Resettle low-income families or those unemployed in community based public housing/public employment projects. I've seen these in Lake Magadi for private housing projects, they have soda factories and workers housed in apartment blocks. More of that action happening at the national level. Offer public housing to those working on public projects. Designate a block of apartments for those working on conservation projects, construction projects, trade projects, keep Kenya clean projects etc. these things first and foremost need land.
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Chumley was NOT a foreigner was he?
Thanks veri. This is very illuminating post on Korea. I totally agree that Land is precious. Some countries even cap the amount a foreigner can own. For me I believe we should give poor peasant as much land as possible; as those with skills, education, resources and etc move up the economic ladder; and own buildings, industries, hotels, shares, equity etc. The poor peasant whose only skills is to forage land for food should be given land. Kenya is an example that output won't suffer just because the landholding is small. So we shouldn't worry.This delemare land is a low hanging fruit which gov should take....and set up say public institutions on it...build industries name it. The land is very prime now - Nakuru-Nairobi -is a place many companies would die to set up.
I hope the delemares read the writting on the wall and ship out.
Game reserve is what they put on paper to mean I don't have the money to invest in it.
When the Japanese colonialized Korea they stole a lot of land. They tried to grab all of my great grandparents land but soon realized it was way too much and the Japs didn't have the money, laborers and so forth to secure that much land. They couldn't weavle into the Korean chaste system because each aristocrat was like a monarchy, and had birth right loyalists with assistants ranging in the hundreds. Unlike under resourced Maasais in Kenya, the aristocrats/land owners in Korea were able to hold onto portions of their land. So the Japs stole what they could under the auspices of "game reserve" whatever.
To ensure those Japs didn't steal more land, my great grandparents gave land to the Americans, my grandparents more. The yankees naturally built airbases, military base etc. place where my mother and I was born.
Much or the North was dominated by Korea's aristocrats and to shut off the Japs, North Korea was formed. The South were poor farmers with sparse aristocratic families mostly land owning farmers with royal birth rights. Of course along the way, plebish Koreans took advantage of this foreign intrusion and rose to prominent govt positions, foreign favor etc. and like the Kenyattas killed foreign/Japanese land grabbers and stole the land for themselves. Cholmondeley's death was no accident.
Korea was thoroughly raped by small wars throughout history, many lives lost around the world during the Korean war etc. but what divides Korea today is the notion that those Japs/foreigners will colonialize Korea again. At the crux of it all, it's about land ownership, the fear of having one's motherland taken away. It's really what binds those aristocratic lineages in the North.
Poverty, corruption, stagnation persistent in Kenya today seems very much to do with unresolved land woes. Land is precious. It strengthens or weakens sovereignty. We forget that the inhabitants of long gone centuries are buried beneath that soil and truth, liberation and progress are mysteries revealed to the rightful descendants.
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Delemare was a foreigner was he not
Chumley was NOT a foreigner was he?
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Pundit,
Yes its going to hurt the poor if theres land tax but the common good will be realized to the extent that they'll become the new middle class. These monies should only be used to build schools. Even 100 shillings an acre is sufficient.
In kenya, you only pay land rate (land tax) if you own a commercial plot. So this happens in urban areas. I think the Brits had this kind of taxation (hut tax) but after independence it was abandoned coz it had bad reputation. The issue is more complex than taxing Kenyatta or Delemare - coz you'll have to ensare the very poor. They won't afford to pay taxes and soon their land will be auctioned.
The solution I see is for gov to compulisory acquire those land for public projects such as an airport or industrial park or university or resettling poor people.
Let me also add, I pay $1200 per quarterly in land tax, $5000 a year for quarter of an acre in Sydney, Australia. In 5 years that amounts to $25 000. In Delemare's case, he should be paying $10 billion dollars for 5 years in land tax, that's the kind of revenue the public till can be making on land alone. Owning land means having the revenue to keep that land. These are land reforms that should have been implements post-colonialism. That's something a Kenyatta presidency and his British counterparts will never endorse, and the very fundamental reason why Kenya is still so poor.