Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: gout on January 31, 2022, 02:38:51 PM
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Seems quite complex pursuing justice in Kenya.
Do you rush the cases and have them compromised as the parties have the cash and influence as is with Chitembwe case; or do you wait for cash to run out then strike as is with these cases which have been getting adjournments for decades.
Or just go ARA way. Assets freeze and then squeeze.
Today Moturi, through Lawyer Assa Nyakundi and Adan Mohamed, asked the court to take into account that he suffers from hypertension, diabetes, asthma, prostate enlargement and a history of disc herniation.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2022-01-31-ex-nssf-boss-francis-moturi-convicted-of-graft-to-be-sentenced-today/
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Generally all court cases take too long..we need to fix it
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Even murder cases like those of Jowie, Obado, Wairimu Cohen etc take decades. This is not tolerable in a society seeking justice.
People with blood in their hands are walking around free full of impunity.
Generally all court cases take too long..we need to fix it
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Yes it makes our justice system useless
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Why can't we triple judiciary budget n place high court every sub county..we can have 300 high courts and 900 magistrate courts... every division..we can then listen to court cases speedly and without compromising the quality..case should be dealt with non stop like in developed countries..you allow murder suspect free bail for 10yrs... instead of listening to such case non stop and be done in 3 weeks
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It is kept that way to milk money from unsuspecting individuals for decades. My brother's minor case of 2004 was concluded in 2016. In those years, a lawyer demanded a few thousand for adjournment and a cut for the judge every other few months. If you can't spit out anything arrest warrant is issued! Those like ngiritas, Obados, Jowie, etc., will see their cases drag for years, with occasional money flowing from lawyers to judges slowly until they are dry. In the end, they will cut the deal of either jail or lump sum payment! If you hear someone has walked free, or found not guilty, know that he/she paid lump sum. In Kenya, you don't want to be seriously sick or have a protracted court case. The lawyers/brokers surrounding courts in Kenya are just overwhelming! If you can avoid landing in the court system, do the necessary!
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The occasion we agree fully...!! Completely rotten system... have suffered immensely in those corridors with protracted adjournments... even the judges are happy to courtesy to that, nay, actively encourage adjournments. Always wonder what all these fellows went to school for if their business is to wantonly delay cases.
It is kept that way to milk money from unsuspecting individuals for decades. My brother's minor case of 2004 was concluded in 2016. In those years, a lawyer demanded a few thousand for adjournment and a cut for the judge every other few months. If you can't spit out anything arrest warrant is issued! Those like ngiritas, Obados, Jowie, etc., will see their cases drag for years, with occasional money flowing from lawyers to judges slowly until they are dry. In the end, they will cut the deal of either jail or lump sum payment! If you hear someone has walked free, or found not guilty, know that he/she paid lump sum. In Kenya, you don't want to be seriously sick or have a protracted court case. The lawyers/brokers surrounding courts in Kenya are just overwhelming! If you can avoid landing in the court system, do the necessary!
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You have all just described a classic banana republic.
Their business is not to delay cases. It's to make money through bribery and corruption.
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It's sickening.. personally I avoid court cases at all costs..I threaten with lawyer's demand letter but will not solve issues through court..I rather leave it or find resolution outside court.Quickest way to bankruptcy apart from Kenya bank is lawyer fees and hospital..at lease hospital insurance handle that.We simply don't have judiciary.Its totally incompetent.We need to triple the budget...so they have no excuses to delay cases..hire as many judges as possible..17B budget now is too miniscule to deal with 10 trillion ksh economy... recommendations is to spend even 2 percent on judiciary..we can try hit 1 percent by employing 4 times and see if we can truly move forward
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Quick solution..every constituency to have an high court..prison..every division to have magistrate court and a prison...we can ask cdf to fund it once they done with school if we cannot finance judiciary.Once this is done court delays will history as judges will have reasonable workloads... otherwise now it's both overworked and corrupt..we can deal with workload easily by throwing money..
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Apart from a few mutunga new courts .Kenya courts and prisons were built by the British...we are building school but nobody think about courts and prisons
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Court case in Kenya just a waste of time mostly. Increasing budget wont help. Judges magistrates already well paid. Requires CJ to demand more from judiciary staff and her own office. Japanese heading such institution would have harakiri many times.
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No it's not just corruption..we have too few judges and courts.. rarely expanded despite population increasing ten times since 1960s...when did you last hear new court or prison?
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Infact if court worked..many people would file cases but now people are sorting things outside courts.. judiciary budget need to be tripled
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The problem of Kenyan Judiciary system is the JSC and LSK. They run the system and have been classmates or collegues at one point. Even to a level of intermarying.
Now they are in NIS, DCI, DPP, EACC and In Judiciary. Now it even gets worse when they are in the same bed with Government of the day.
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The problem of Kenyan Judiciary system is the JSC and LSK. They run the system and have been classmates or collegues at one point. Even to a level of intermarying.
Now they are in NIS, DCI, DPP, EACC and In Judiciary. Now it even gets worse when they are in the same bed with Government of the day.
Boss but even useless cases like drunk n disordely take forever...I have been to magistrate court...their calendar is full...in some high courts you can only mention days years away...undercapacity is biggest and easiest to solve
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I think the problem is the people. The Kenyan population is unclean, corrupt, and brokers in masses. If lawyers, politicians, judges, and customers were clean, to begin with, the system would run smoothly, no matter what kind of system is in place. The same brokers are in KPLC, county offices, politics, relationships, and anywhere in between. Over the years, moral decay in Kenya has gone too deep red. Consistently doing the right thing/being honest is an alien concept in today's Kenya. Expect everything to rot with such masses of people confined in one geographical region. I have cousins in the army, and they cry of massive corruption there. Did you know to successfully join the army/military in Kenya, most people part with 300K to 600K? Kenya's Judiciary, executive, and legislature are utterly rotten to the core.
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Apart from a few mutunga new courts .Kenya courts and prisons were built by the British...we are building school but nobody think about courts and prisons
The traditional honest family needs to be built, and ethical citizens will be churned out. Never met an honest Kenyan even in my family! They sound legit as they position themselves to take you to the cleaners at the right time. Those same folks, friends, relatives, schoolmates are now lawyers, police officers, judges, teachers, pastors, workers, politicians, and folks in every aspect of society.
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No it's not just corruption..we have too few judges and courts.. rarely expanded despite population increasing ten times since 1960s...when did you last hear new court or prison?
Prisons problem separate from judiciary. many prisons reduced population to handle Covid. New court have been there. Few but there. More new judges new magistrates also.
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Apart from a few mutunga new courts .Kenya courts and prisons were built by the British...we are building school but nobody think about courts and prisons
The traditional honest family needs to be built, and ethical citizens will be churned out. Never met an honest Kenyan even in my family! They sound legit as they position themselves to take you to the cleaners at the right time. Those same folks, friends, relatives, schoolmates are now lawyers, police officers, judges, teachers, pastors, workers, politicians, and folks in every aspect of society.
Need to separate prison from courts. More prison does not mean more justice. You should sit in Farrakhan ccongregation.
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They are same side of the coin - output of justice system is to jail folks - judges and magistrates - inquire the capacity of the prison - before handing sentences - every const deserve a prison and a court to handle their wayward people right there.
We need to give judiciary funding to build 300 more courts and 300 new prisons - these prisons should be as good as developed world - each person on their own bed - etc etc.Prison should not be a death sentence - it should be a correctional services.
But nobody wants to think about such essential services.
Once you get a working judiciary - then we can start mending our broken society - because court system is the one to enforce law and order
Prisons problem separate from judiciary. many prisons reduced population to handle Covid. New court have been there. Few but there. More new judges new magistrates also.
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Why do judges still have "summer" holida in Jul for 6 weeks? Are we still Brits who require summer holidays? The judiciar should have like all other government 30 das leave in a year.
No it's not just corruption..we have too few judges and courts.. rarely expanded despite population increasing ten times since 1960s...when did you last hear new court or prison?
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There are some quick wins but to radical improve we need to makes radical changes - judiciary fund is needed. Ruto seem to understand this and will fix it. We have an underfunded judiciary - and we dont appreciate the needs to invest in courts, prisons and etc.
Why do judges still have "summer" holida in Jul for 6 weeks? Are we still Brits who require summer holidays? The judiciar should have like all other government 30 das leave in a year.
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You simply do not get it. Your idol Ruto is a direct beneficiary of this corrupt judicial system. You know very well where he would be today had Kenya a working judicial system.
There are some quick wins but to radical improve we need to makes radical changes - judiciary fund is needed. Ruto seem to understand this and will fix it. We have an underfunded judiciary - and we dont appreciate the needs to invest in courts, prisons and etc.
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Ruto was tried in ICC - donge?
And as incoming PORK - Ruto will have criminal immunity - Donge?
Ruto understand such broken court system is not good for everyone - even the politicians
Solution - triple judiciary budget
You simply do not get it. Your idol Ruto is a direct beneficiary of this corrupt judicial system. You know very well where he would be today had Kenya a working judicial system.
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Ruto was tried in ICC - donge?
And as incoming PORK - Ruto will have criminal immunity - Donge?
Ruto understand such broken court system is not good for everyone - even the politicians
Solution - triple judiciary budget
You simply do not get it. Your idol Ruto is a direct beneficiary of this corrupt judicial system. You know very well where he would be today had Kenya a working judicial system.
Under Maraga judiciary adopted online session due to covid restrictions. Saved a lot of time and logistics. Cannot work well in all circumstances but very good way to go. If improved and used more this system can reduce backlog substantially. Cases can be heard round the clock. Litigant can burn midnight oil waiting if its crucial case.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-07-01-cj-maraga-launches-e-filing-portal-as-judiciary-goes-digital/
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Yes Shollei really disappointed with her corruption - but she had good ideas on this. TECH will help judiciary deal with capacity issues. We need to realize this serious issues - and call for reforms.
It's really not about politician case - but dispute btw rest of us - 99 percent of cases have nothing to do with corruption - it's land disputes or petty crimes - this is where it hurt us the most.
Ruto was tried in ICC - donge?
And as incoming PORK - Ruto will have criminal immunity - Donge?
Ruto understand such broken court system is not good for everyone - even the politicians
Solution - triple judiciary budget
You simply do not get it. Your idol Ruto is a direct beneficiary of this corrupt judicial system. You know very well where he would be today had Kenya a working judicial system.
Under Maraga judiciary adopted online session due to covid restrictions. Saved a lot of time and logistics. Cannot work well in all circumstances but very good way to go. If improved and used more this system can reduce backlog substantially. Cases can be heard round the clock. Litigant can burn midnight oil waiting if its crucial case.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2020-07-01-cj-maraga-launches-e-filing-portal-as-judiciary-goes-digital/
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Small claims court is another winner.
Court deal with dispute of 1m and less.
Cases heard and determined in 3 days or so.
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I know the Judiciary has a long way to go and is a mess but things have MASSIVELY improved. Mutunga basically transformed the Kenyan judiciary to such a level that regionally, as bad as things are, we are much further ahead of others. Because of the SCOK presidential election petition, he's not remembered fondly, but he truly did a LOT. Just read this article from this Princeton fella way back in 2015 reviewing the Mutunga reforms between 2011-2015. He basically took us from a primitive, backwater joke of a judicial system to a modern one, albeit with problems.
https://www.opengovpartnership.org/wpcontent/uploads/2019/06/MG_OGP_Kenya.pdf
Maraga did a LOT to boost judicial independence but administratively, Mutunga is the man, and he started basically from scratch. He set the foundation. But unfortunately, these types of reforms are not as well known in the layman world as the big impact cases.
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Yes - we are on the mend - Uhuru didnt get over 2017 maraga decision (petulant kid)- otherwise judiciary deserve to be funded - so it can hire three times more - build more courts - and prison should do the same.
So we have small problem of scaling - otherwise judiciary is now truly independent and is also competently starved.
It just scaling the reforms - by opening more courts
I know the Judiciary has a long way to go and is a mess but things have MASSIVELY improved. Mutunga basically transformed the Kenyan judiciary to such a level that regionally, as bad as things are, we are much further ahead of others. Because of the SCOK presidential election petition, he's not remembered fondly, but he truly did a LOT. Just read this article from this Princeton fella way back in 2015 reviewing the Mutunga reforms between 2011-2015. He basically took us from a primitive, backwater joke of a judicial system to a modern one, albeit with problems.
https://www.opengovpartnership.org/wpcontent/uploads/2019/06/MG_OGP_Kenya.pdf
Maraga did a LOT to boost judicial independence but administratively, Mutunga is the man. But unfortunately, these types of reforms are not as well known in the layman world as the big impact cases.
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I agree on budget! We are not yet at the International standard, in terms of both capacity and budget, I believe. Judiciary with a still-small but much improved budget in the new constitutional dispensation, starting with Mutunga, has made huge reforms. They need an adequate budget to hire enough officers and build enough facilities and digitize even more (already Mutunga even back then was trying to digitize as much as possible to help with tracking cases and transparency as well as efficiency issues). They need a big enough budget. They will do the rest all on their own.
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Yes - executive should not tell them what to do - just allow judiciary to keep the fines - and add them small money - they can self-finances from the fines. Budget now is 17B - but it need to rise upto 50B. Once we have built 300 high courts in every const - then it become just hiring staff and recurrent expenditure.
Judiciary fund is required.
I agree on budget! We are not yet at the International standard, in terms of both capacity and budget, I believe. Judiciary with a still-small but much improved budget in the new constitutional dispensation, starting with Mutunga, has made huge reforms. They need an adequate budget to hire enough officers and build enough facilities and digitize even more (already Mutunga even back then was trying to digitize as much as possible to help with tracking cases and transparency as well as efficiency issues). They need a big enough budget. They will do the rest all on their own.
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I can see a small ethical problem with allowing them to directly benefit from the fines, (at least perception wise, like how the US for-profit prisons have ended up raising questions about whether those sentences are truly meted out fairly or to benefit this arrangement) but controlling a bigger budget is paramount. The Courts function much better administratively, and there are even citizen/public complaints mechanisms. Any backlog at this point is mostly due to fewer officers than the public needs. The solution is money. The Judiciary already how many more people they need. And yes, Shollei was very sharp. If only she didn't let her Kenyanness influence her so much. She was part of Mutunga's reforms.
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Shollei was technically running Judiciary and was brought down by Judges who wanted status quo. Her undoing was running to the media. If only she could have played her game politically.
All said and done Mutunga really tried. Being someone from Academia with limited Managerial skills he could identify the best Judicial officers and place them in the right positions.
From Ngugi as the one Running Judicial Training Institute to his advisors. Unfortunately time was not on his side.
Now we have Koome with 10 years but we expect Judicary to retrogress.
I can see a small ethical problem with allowing them to directly benefit from the fines, (at least perception wise, like how the US for-profit prisons have ended up raising questions about whether those sentences are truly meted out fairly or to benefit this arrangement) but controlling a bigger budget is paramount. The Courts function much better administratively, and there are even citizen/public complaints mechanisms. Any backlog at this point is mostly due to fewer officers than the public needs. The solution is money. The Judiciary already how many more people they need. And yes, Shollei was very sharp. If only she didn't let her Kenyanness influence her so much. She was part of Mutunga's reforms.
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Seems 2010 EACC had water tight cases unlike hii kamata kamata friday intimidation jokes. Bit by bit the system can work.
Haji also seems to be getting it right with the prosecutors.
James Omondi Ambuso, a former finance and administration manager at Water Resource Management Authority (Warma), was convicted of receiving a total of Sh910,000 from officers from Warma’s regional units ten years ago.
Anti-Corruption Court senior principal magistrate Eunice Nyutu gave Mr Ambuso the option to pay a fine of Sh7.6 million or serve 24 years in prison.
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/news/ex-warma-boss-fined-sh7-6m-for-taking-bribes-from-his-juniors-3701860
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They are same side of the coin - output of justice system is to jail folks - judges and magistrates - inquire the capacity of the prison - before handing sentences - every const deserve a prison and a court to handle their wayward people right there.
We need to give judiciary funding to build 300 more courts and 300 new prisons - these prisons should be as good as developed world - each person on their own bed - etc etc.Prison should not be a death sentence - it should be a correctional services.
But nobody wants to think about such essential services.
Once you get a working judiciary - then we can start mending our broken society - because court system is the one to enforce law and order
Prisons problem separate from judiciary. many prisons reduced population to handle Covid. New court have been there. Few but there. More new judges new magistrates also.
If judiciary budget allocation increase we hope no policy makers listening to such bad advice. Let ministry of Home Affairs like in Moi time of Moody Awori handle prison side. Awori reform gave conjugal rights with no budget increase to judiciary. Repeat. More prison is not more justice. Thin dividing line but important.