Nipate

Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Arcadian_Dreamer on October 31, 2021, 04:50:39 PM

Title: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on October 31, 2021, 04:50:39 PM
Quote
MP donates 250 motorbikes to empower youth

Kesses MP Swarup Mishra (pictured) has rolled out multi-million shilling projects to empower residents.

Under the initiative, Dr Mishra intends to reduce insecurity and create jobs for the youth in Kesses.

On Friday, the MP donated over 250 motorcycles to youth as part of the empowerment programme he started in 2017.

Dr Mishra said Sh30 million had been spent on the motorcycles. The first-term MP has also established an award scheme where 2,000 youth will own motorcycles for boda boda business.

He is not a one hit wonder mind you, he has been doing this consistently. He is an untouchable due to his track record.

What is the excuse of native MP?

Busy politicking, wasting time on affairs, drinking, causing a ruckus.

I believe a single committed person in leadership with a bit of resources can change the fortunes of a poor place. I really do, our problems are not insurmountable.

Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on October 31, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
Quote
MP donates 250 motorbikes to empower youth

Kesses MP Swarup Mishra (pictured) has rolled out multi-million shilling projects to empower residents.

Under the initiative, Dr Mishra intends to reduce insecurity and create jobs for the youth in Kesses.

On Friday, the MP donated over 250 motorcycles to youth as part of the empowerment programme he started in 2017.

Dr Mishra said Sh30 million had been spent on the motorcycles. The first-term MP has also established an award scheme where 2,000 youth will own motorcycles for boda boda business.

He is not a one hit wonder mind you, he has been doing this consistently. He is an untouchable due to his track record.

What is the excuse of native MP?

Busy politicking, wasting time on affairs, drinking, causing a ruckus.

I believe a single committed person in leadership with a bit of resources can change the fortunes of a poor place. I really do, our problems are not insurmountable.
All he has to do now is sing Hustler tune and be severely pro Ruto, and his seat will be guaranteed. Any little anti-Ruto talk in RV is guaranteed to make one loss big time. The former anti-Ruto brigade, Isaac Ruto and Alred Keter, are now literally beating and slapping anti-Ruto politicians through RV Savannah because they want to win. Ruto is the party!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 01, 2021, 04:25:51 PM
He already defected.I have been in RV this week.. kalenjin land is 99% William Ruto...maybe 100%
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 01, 2021, 05:56:42 PM
He already defected.I have been in RV this week.. kalenjin land is 99% William Ruto...maybe 100%
100%. Old KANU, for the first time, will be incinerated in the region!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 01, 2021, 09:41:26 PM
Yeah kanu little support evaporates.. kalenjin everywhere I have gone are singular determined on the top..it's going to be almost 100 percent.Ruto should not even waste a day in Kalenjin land
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 01, 2021, 11:10:19 PM
https://www.the-star.co.ke/counties/rift-valley/2021-11-01-baringo-mp-ditches-maendeleo-chap-chap-for-rutos-uda/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1635794907
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 02, 2021, 03:52:22 AM
https://www.the-star.co.ke/counties/rift-valley/2021-11-01-baringo-mp-ditches-maendeleo-chap-chap-for-rutos-uda/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1635794907
I hope Rustler Kamket is shown the door together with Gideon Moi
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 02, 2021, 09:50:10 AM
Gideon will only survive if he bows to Ruto - otherwise he should put his name in Raila's ODM to be nominated - then get massive shellshacking by Ruto or Raila - both will want to reduce the Kenyatta/Moi empires.

Kamket and Pokot are playing a different tune - they are not legit kalenjin - so they may do 70:30 - but with Uhuru/Gideon fighting them in Laikipia - this time round they wont blame Ruto.
I hope Rustler Kamket is shown the door together with Gideon Moi
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on November 02, 2021, 04:56:51 PM
Gideon will only survive if he bows to Ruto - otherwise he should put his name in Raila's ODM to be nominated - then get massive shellshacking by Ruto or Raila - both will want to reduce the Kenyatta/Moi empires.

Kamket and Pokot are playing a different tune - they are not legit kalenjin - so they may do 70:30 - but with Uhuru/Gideon fighting them in Laikipia - this time round they wont blame Ruto.

BS! Who are they?

Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 02, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Gideon will only survive if he bows to Ruto - otherwise he should put his name in Raila's ODM to be nominated - then get massive shellshacking by Ruto or Raila - both will want to reduce the Kenyatta/Moi empires.

Kamket and Pokot are playing a different tune - they are not legit kalenjin - so they may do 70:30 - but with Uhuru/Gideon fighting them in Laikipia - this time round they wont blame Ruto.

BS! Who are they?
They are Pokots, not Kalenjins. Joshua Cheptegei of Uganda is a Kalenjin, Governor Loyangapuo is not. RV pundit, Cheptegei and I and can converse in Kalenjin all day with no issue, but with Pokots we have to switch to Swahili,or English. Pokots and Kalenjins are like Okuyus and Kambas!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Nowayhaha on November 02, 2021, 06:16:11 PM

Told RV the same and he insisted West Pokot County is a Kalenjin County.

Gideon will only survive if he bows to Ruto - otherwise he should put his name in Raila's ODM to be nominated - then get massive shellshacking by Ruto or Raila - both will want to reduce the Kenyatta/Moi empires.

Kamket and Pokot are playing a different tune - they are not legit kalenjin - so they may do 70:30 - but with Uhuru/Gideon fighting them in Laikipia - this time round they wont blame Ruto.

BS! Who are they?
They are Pokots, not Kalenjins. Joshua Cheptegei of Uganda is a Kalenjin, Governor Loyangapuo is not. RV pundit, Cheptegei and I and can converse in Kalenjin all day with no issue, but with Pokots we have to switch to Swahili,or English. Pokots and Kalenjins are like Okuyus and Kambas!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 02, 2021, 06:29:41 PM
Pokot are kalenjin with lots of Turkana influence.. highlands pokot are close to other kalenjin
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 02, 2021, 07:40:13 PM
Pokot are kalenjin with lots of Turkana influence.. highlands pokot are close to other kalenjin
What is Kalenjin? Because honestly there is nothing like a kalenjin tribe but a polity. Would you say so called kalenjin,tugen,marakwet,kipsigis,nandi, etc are more intelligible to each other than GEMA. I would say Kikuyu,,Kamba,Meru,Embu  and all mountain kabilas would be more intellible language wise culture wise far more than kalenjin and luhyas
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 02, 2021, 08:17:18 PM
Kalenjin..it depends.. kipsigis n Nandi are 99% similar..other kalenjin also play around 90% percent..if there were major difference you would hear of Nandi fm, Keiyo fm...but nearly all kalenjin listen to same radio station..be it Kass or chamgei or many other stations...because the dialects are very close..the difference really is intonation...more like British and American English.

Of all the nilotics...kalenjin are sort of unique...because the language is only spoken by Kalenjin+Datooga of TZ.

Other nilotics language are related and spoken by many other tribes.

Luo is related to many tribes in Uganda, drc, ethiopia and south sudan - from dinkas, nuer, acholis, many tribes.
Maasai - is close to turkana, iteso, karamojong, many of tribes in sudan and ethiopia.

Kalenjin - ideally should be nilo-cushitic language.

Southern Nilotic languages appear to have been influenced considerably by Cushitic (Afro-Asiatic) languages.[1] The Kalenjin languages are spoken by the Kalenjin people
Rottland, Franz (1982) Die Südnilotischen Sprachen: Beschreibung, Vergleichung und Rekonstruktion (Kölner Beiträge zur Afrikanistik vol. 7). Berlin: Dietrich Reimer.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 02, 2021, 11:34:26 PM
Pokot are kalenjin with lots of Turkana influence.. highlands pokot are close to other kalenjin
What is Kalenjin? Because honestly there is nothing like a kalenjin tribe but a polity. Would you say so called kalenjin,tugen,marakwet,kipsigis,nandi, etc are more intelligible to each other than GEMA. I would say Kikuyu,,Kamba,Meru,Embu  and all mountain kabilas would be more intellible language wise culture wise far more than kalenjin and luhyas
Kikuyu, Kamba, and Meru are different distinct languages. Embu and Kikuyu are close like Keiyo and Tugen (80%). My wife is kikuyu and her friends Meru and Kamba ( for decades )and they don't understand each other, unless they are speaking Swahili and English! Kalenjins, mostly Kipsigis, Keiyo, Lembus tugen and Nandi (90%) of Kalenjins are 99-100% similar. Arror Tugen, other clans, Marakwet, Pokots and those in Uganda speak what I would call broken Kalenjin! here and there!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Nowayhaha on November 02, 2021, 11:42:43 PM

Merus speak fluent Kyuk. Kambas if they want can speak fluent Kyuk. Actually feom 60s to 90s majority used to speak fluent Kyuk. Kamba Nationalism came in the 2000s and hatred by 2013 after they felt they were betrayed by GEMA opting for Ruto to be Uhurus running mate instead of Kalonzo. 

Pokot are kalenjin with lots of Turkana influence.. highlands pokot are close to other kalenjin
What is Kalenjin? Because honestly there is nothing like a kalenjin tribe but a polity. Would you say so called kalenjin,tugen,marakwet,kipsigis,nandi, etc are more intelligible to each other than GEMA. I would say Kikuyu,,Kamba,Meru,Embu  and all mountain kabilas would be more intellible language wise culture wise far more than kalenjin and luhyas
Kikuyu, Kamba, and Meru are different distinct languages. Embu and Kikuyu are close like Keiyo and Tugen (80%). My wife is kikuyu and her friends Meru and Kamba ( for decades )and they don't understand each other, unless they are speaking Swahili and English! Kalenjins, mostly Kipsigis, Keiyo, Lembus tugen and Nandi (90%) of Kalenjins are 99-100% similar. Arror Tugen, other clans, Marakwet, Pokots and those in Uganda speak what I would call broken Kalenjin! here and there!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 03, 2021, 06:33:02 AM
Pokot are kalenjin with lots of Turkana influence.. highlands pokot are close to other kalenjin
What is Kalenjin? Because honestly there is nothing like a kalenjin tribe but a polity. Would you say so called kalenjin,tugen,marakwet,kipsigis,nandi, etc are more intelligible to each other than GEMA. I would say Kikuyu,,Kamba,Meru,Embu  and all mountain kabilas would be more intellible language wise culture wise far more than kalenjin and luhyas
Kikuyu, Kamba, and Meru are different distinct languages. Embu and Kikuyu are close like Keiyo and Tugen (80%). My wife is kikuyu and her friends Meru and Kamba ( for decades )and they don't understand each other, unless they are speaking Swahili and English! Kalenjins, mostly Kipsigis, Keiyo, Lembus tugen and Nandi (90%) of Kalenjins are 99-100% similar. Arror Tugen, other clans, Marakwet, Pokots and those in Uganda speak what I would call broken Kalenjin! here and there!
I doubt. Is that supported by any linguistic evidence?? You see Kalenjin was created by Moi during the 1950s,at thats same time Merus,Embus were simply was called Kikuyus but now the Bazungu broke it up for political reasons and separated them into Meru land unit etc then the languages were very similar then bazungu used kambas and kikuyus as translators when meeting merus as no merus spoke English back then.
You can say now there us a rift as Kikuyu embu and Meru have developed separately however the basic structure of all those language  is 70,% same. Merus have little problem understanding speech of embu or kikuyu even without intermingling with them go to rural areas in meru they will set their radio on any radio station whether Kikuyu or Meru etc. However Meru is more difficult for a kikuyu to understand straight up without have intermingled.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/places/africa/kenyan-political-geography/meru
I still think Kalenjin is just a polity really not a cohesive tribe in language, culture naming system etc like GEMA.

Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 03, 2021, 08:57:14 AM
Kalenjin ( at least 4 substribes of Nandi, Kipsigis, Tugen (not Aror), Keiyo) are not only close by language, they have kinship ties, always knew they were sons of one family, and were one people.Kalenjin are more like Kikuyu dialect of Kiambu, Muranga, Kindia, Gichugu, Nyeri....than Meru/Embu.I can tell you btw Nandi and Kipsigis - they similar clans - and I think you cannot intermarry even accross - previously a nandi or kipisigs would move to either land - and settle down.

Language wise - I think btw Nandi and Kipisigs - I saw maybe 1-2 root words are different - to see (ker, Iro) - the rest are similar.

You can tell that Pokot split up earlier from rest of Kalenjin, then followed by marakwet, the rest split up recently, with nandi-kipsigis essentially the same people.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234673223.pdf

I doubt. Is that supported by any linguistic evidence?? You see Kalenjin was created by Moi during the 1950s,at thats same time Merus,Embus were simply was called Kikuyus but now the Bazungu broke it up for political reasons and separated them into Meru land unit etc then the languages were very similar then bazungu used kambas and kikuyus as translators when meeting merus as no merus spoke English back then.
You can say now there us a rift as Kikuyu embu and Meru have developed separately however the basic structure of all those language  is 70,% same. Merus have little problem understanding speech of embu or kikuyu even without intermingling with them go to rural areas in meru they will set their radio on any radio station whether Kikuyu or Meru etc. However Meru is more difficult for a kikuyu to understand straight up without have intermingled.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/places/africa/kenyan-political-geography/meru
I still think Kalenjin is just a polity really not a cohesive tribe in language, culture naming system etc like GEMA.


Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 03, 2021, 09:03:25 AM
Yes the split btw Kispigis and Nandis is just 200yrs old -  Nandis would steal cattle from other kalenjin but never from kipsigis nor would either ever wage a war - against the other - even as late as 1880 - some Koitalel sons moved to kipsigis to become their orkoiyot - after being edged out by  Koitalel Samoei. Kipchomber Arap Koilege- Koitalel bro - became Kipsigis orkoiyot - and later a British collaborator - and was Kericho first paramount chief - but later fell out with Brits after they massacred his nandi family - and was subsequently arrested and kept in prison for 27yrs - longer than fake Jesus Raila. Kipsigis would move to Nandi and Nandi to kipisgis - settle down - no question asked.

There is a study of the root words - I cant find the link - but from it 99 percent of words are similar - except Nandi say Iro - for see - which Kipsigis use a different word -- the rest are similar.

The Kipsigis were initially a single group and identity with the Nandi until 1800 when the Nandi community was separated by a wedge of Uas Nkishu Maasai in Kipchorian River (River Nyando); the resulting community south of Nandi hills (Kipkelion) became Kipsgis.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 03, 2021, 11:08:38 AM
The Kalenjin word has nothing to do with Moi. It was coined to replace Nandi-speaking people (which was term used before) - as it was more represenative.

"Beginning in the 1940s, individuals from these groups who were going off to fight in World War II used the term kale or kole (the process of scarring the breast or arm of a warrior who had killed an enemy in battle) to refer to themselves. During wartime radio broadcasts, an announcer, John Chemallan, used the phrase kalenjok (“I tell you,” plural). Later, individuals from these groups who were attending Alliance High School formed a “Kalenjin” club. Fourteen in number, they constituted a distinct minority in this prestigious school in a Kikuyu area. This affected their desire for some sort of outward manifestation of identity and solidarity, as the Kikuyu are not only much more numerous but also culturally and linguistically very different from the Kalenjin. These young high school students would form the future Kalenjin elite. The next step in the consolidation of Kalenjin identity was the founding of a Kalenjin Union in Eldoret in 1948, and the publication of a monthly magazine called Kalenjin in the 1950s."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/kalenjin


Three Kalenjin dialect clusters have been identified:
one consists of the Sabaot, along with the Sebei and Kony;  - lots of Bantu (Bukusu) influence
another is made up of Pokot, northern Marakwet, and northern Tugen;  - Lots of Turkana Influence.
while the third dialect includes the Nandi, Kipsigis, Keiyo, Terik, and southern Tugen and Marakwet - Kalenjin core or proper.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 03, 2021, 11:55:32 AM
I don't disagree their is tribal affiliation ,what am more curious about is the level of mutual intelligibility between languages among others. Have heard from  a marakwet say he can't understand kipsigis and vice versa. Have also heard some kipsigis also complain thye can't understand tone of the Nandi.So obviously it can't be 99% maybe 50% exist in intelligibility
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 03, 2021, 12:09:59 PM
Meru has 7 or 9 sub tribes. No kipsigis will say they cannot understand Nandi. The difference in words is 1 percent. The rest is accent. Yes Pokot, Sabaot, Arror and Marakwet - conversation will be 50-50 in kiswahili or so.

But Nandi, Tugen (Eldama Ravine), Kipsigis and Keiyo are very similar.

In fact Kipisigis and Tugen of Eldama Ravine (Lembus) accent wise are very close to be almost similar.  Keiyo and Nandi are close accent wise.

When it get to Moi (arror) - then it start sounding like Pokot - way too much turkana in there.

I don't disagree their is tribal affiliation ,what am more curious about is the level of mutual intelligibility between languages among others. Have heard from  a marakwet say he can't understand kipsigis and vice versa. Have also heard some kipsigis also complain thye can't understand tone of the Nandi.So obviously it can't be 99% maybe 50% exist in intelligibility

Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 04, 2021, 06:15:07 AM
Meru has 7 or 9 sub tribes. No kipsigis will say they cannot understand Nandi. The difference in words is 1 percent. The rest is accent. Yes Pokot, Sabaot, Arror and Marakwet - conversation will be 50-50 in kiswahili or so.

But Nandi, Tugen (Eldama Ravine), Kipsigis and Keiyo are very similar.

In fact Kipisigis and Tugen of Eldama Ravine (Lembus) accent wise are very close to be almost similar.  Keiyo and Nandi are close accent wise.

When it get to Moi (arror) - then it start sounding like Pokot - way too much turkana in there.

I don't disagree their is tribal affiliation ,what am more curious about is the level of mutual intelligibility between languages among others. Have heard from  a marakwet say he can't understand kipsigis and vice versa. Have also heard some kipsigis also complain thye can't understand tone of the Nandi.So obviously it can't be 99% maybe 50% exist in intelligibility

I think you are intentionally avoiding the main argument. It doesn't matter Meru having 9 subtribes actually it could have even 50 the FACT is that they are all MUTUALLY intelligible. And when you bring Kambas,Kikuyu,Embus,Kirinyaga name them the intelligibility between these languages is 70% at the minimum all across this is a linguistic fact furthermore they constitute a language continuum that lacks in other groupings like baluhya mijikenda,kalenjin.You have stated marakwet pokot are about 50% intelligible with Nandi-Kipsigis. So this clearly means easily Kikuyu,Kamba,Meru,Embu,kirinyaga,mbeere can be easily be constituted in one Tribe going by the definitions that constituted Kalenjin,Miji kenda and Luhya simply on the basis of them having a superior percentage of intelligibility alone even without pulling other obvious factors. Tell me am wrong on this very simple FACT??
Its clear pundit you have a layman understanding of linguistics you are really struggling to explain simple point s. But I guess even Mr. know it all has his limits :)
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2021, 07:28:21 AM
There is more to a tribe than just language intelligibility; there is culture, kinship, their is language dna, etc. There is no denying that all bantu languages are related. How much of Kiswahili is a meru whose never been to school able to understand - a lot.

But Merus and Kikuyus cannot be one tribe because there is no kinship ties..even your own theory of origin is different from kikuyus.

Pokot and Kipsigis are related for example - because they trace their common ancestry to Mt elgon - all kalenjin sub tribes can traces their lineage as sons of one father - just like kikuyu claim to be daughters of Mumbi - nearly all kalenjin names are similar - a Meru M'Mukindia and a Karanja from Kiambu is totally different..but Kipchumba or Kiplangat or cherono or name it exist in all kalenjin. Kalenjin religion the same. Kalenjin culture the same. Kalenjin rites of passages the same. Name it - all kalenjin sub tribes are very similar.

You got to Kalenjin clans - they are almost common in all sub-tribes. For example, Talai clan exist in Pokot, Nandi, Tugen, Kipsigis, name it - and all nearly have the same totem or animal - Lion. The clans indicate common lineage...

There is no denying Kalenjin sub tribe have had difference based on intermarriages with other tribes - Kipsigis for example have some gusii/maasia/okiek blood...Nandi has luhya and maasai blood...Pokot has lots of turkana and maasai blood..all these things influence the language...kipsigis of Bomet has some gusii language influence....same way Pokot has turkana influence.

I think you are intentionally avoiding the main argument. It doesn't matter Meru having 9 subtribes actually it could have even 50 the FACT is that they are all MUTUALLY intelligible. And when you bring Kambas,Kikuyu,Embus,Kirinyaga name them the intelligibility between these languages is 70% at the minimum all across this is a linguistic fact furthermore they constitute a language continuum that lacks in other groupings like baluhya mijikenda,kalenjin.You have stated marakwet pokot are about 50% intelligible with Nandi-Kipsigis. So this clearly means easily Kikuyu,Kamba,Meru,Embu,kirinyaga,mbeere can be easily be constituted in one Tribe going by the definitions that constituted Kalenjin,Miji kenda and Luhya simply on the basis of them having a superior percentage of intelligibility alone even without pulling other obvious factors. Tell me am wrong on this very simple FACT??
Its clear pundit you have a layman understanding of linguistics you are really struggling to explain simple point s. But I guess even Mr. know it all has his limits :)
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 04, 2021, 08:26:28 AM
There is more to a tribe than just language intelligibility; there is culture, kinship, their is language dna, etc. There is no denying that all bantu languages are related. How much of Kiswahili is a meru whose never been to school able to understand - a lot.

But Merus and Kikuyus cannot be one tribe because there is no kinship ties..even your own theory of origin is different from kikuyus.

Pokot and Kipsigis are related for example - because they trace their common ancestry to Mt elgon - all kalenjin sub tribes can traces their lineage as sons of one father - just like kikuyu claim to be daughters of Mumbi - nearly all kalenjin names are similar - a Meru M'Mukindia and a Karanja from Kiambu is totally different..but Kipchumba or Kiplangat or cherono or name it exist in all kalenjin. Kalenjin religion the same. Kalenjin culture the same. Kalenjin rites of passages the same. Name it - all kalenjin sub tribes are very similar.

You got to Kalenjin clans - they are almost common in all sub-tribes. For example, Talai clan exist in Pokot, Nandi, Tugen, Kipsigis, name it - and all nearly have the same totem or animal - Lion. The clans indicate common lineage...

There is no denying Kalenjin sub tribe have had difference based on intermarriages with other tribes - Kipsigis for example have some gusii/maasia/okiek blood...Nandi has luhya and maasai blood...Pokot has lots of turkana and maasai blood..all these things influence the language...kipsigis of Bomet has some gusii language influence....same way Pokot has turkana influence.

I think you are intentionally avoiding the main argument. It doesn't matter Meru having 9 subtribes actually it could have even 50 the FACT is that they are all MUTUALLY intelligible. And when you bring Kambas,Kikuyu,Embus,Kirinyaga name them the intelligibility between these languages is 70% at the minimum all across this is a linguistic fact furthermore they constitute a language continuum that lacks in other groupings like baluhya mijikenda,kalenjin.You have stated marakwet pokot are about 50% intelligible with Nandi-Kipsigis. So this clearly means easily Kikuyu,Kamba,Meru,Embu,kirinyaga,mbeere can be easily be constituted in one Tribe going by the definitions that constituted Kalenjin,Miji kenda and Luhya simply on the basis of them having a superior percentage of intelligibility alone even without pulling other obvious factors. Tell me am wrong on this very simple FACT??
Its clear pundit you have a layman understanding of linguistics you are really struggling to explain simple point s. But I guess even Mr. know it all has his limits :)
So there is no kinship ties among Meru and Kikuyu and also names are lacking between both? You sound like Abiy Ahmed himself. Pundit i think you going bonkers nowadays bana. I saw you say Kalenjin are even Nilo-Cushitic(Lunacy )
All mountain kabilas have some level of kinship ties and share again like 80% of names but not all. Are you saying all kalenjin kabilas share all names?
Abdi Pundit even among speakers of a same language differences exit in names for example Kikuyu there are names typical of Nyeri but not Kiambu and viceversa in kirinyaga,Muranga and so on am I wrong???. Same to Meru ,kamba even among English speakers they will tell you that a specific name is from a specific region And in spain france etc
Your points are invalid and you hereby dismissed concentrate on  mathematics and numbers otherwise hapa nitakupiga kama mburukenge.
And to leave you with just a tiny of names shared across mountain include ,karimi,murimi,gitonga,muchiri,kobia,mugambi,munene,kinyua,kiambi,mukami,muthoni,wanja,Njuki,muthomi,muriuki,kariuki The names are hundreds.
Mark you some names are so common among the kabilas unless you chcek where someone was born you will never tell if they are Meru kikuyu,embu or kamba.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2021, 08:41:30 AM
The GEMA is a political association - the tribal identity is tenuous.
Yes Kalenjin is nilo-cushitic or nilo-hamitic - there is enough evidence from language, dna,history - to back that.
This is not something new - this something that researchers noticed as early 18th century.
Kalenjin language was controversially identified as nilotic by Greenbag (American-Jewish scholar)- but other linguistist disagree.
Half Kalenjin root words are Nilotic. Half of them cushitic.
For example Tree in Kalenjin and Somali is Ketit. Rain in kalenjin and Somali is rop. Goat in kalenjin and Somali is artet.
Nilo-cushitic include Kalenjin - and to some extent Maasai, Turkanas and Samburus.
So there is no kinship ties among Meru and Kikuyu and also names are lacking between both? You sound like Abiy Ahmed himself. Pundit i think you going bonkers nowadays bana. I saw you say Kalenjin are even Nilo-Cushitic(Lunacy )
All mountain kabilas have some level of kinship ties and share again like 80% of names but not all. Are you saying all kalenjin kabilas share all names?
Abdi Pundit even among speakers of a same language differences exit in names for example Kikuyu there are names typical of Nyeri but not Kiambu and viceversa in kirinyaga,Muranga and so on am I wrong???. Same to Meru ,kamba even among English speakers they will tell you that a specific name is from a specific region in spain france etc
Your points are invalid and you hereby dismissed concentrate on  mathematics and numbers otherwise hapa nitakupiga kama mburukenge.
And to leave you with just a tiny of names shared across mountain include ,karimi,murimi,gitonga,muchiri,kobia,mugambi,munene,kinyua,kiambi,mukami,muthoni,wanja,Njuki,muthomi,muriuki,kariuki The names are hundreds.
Mark you some names are so common among the kabilas unless you chcek where someone was born you will never tell if they are Meru kikuyu,embu or kamba.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 04, 2021, 09:16:01 AM
The GEMA is a political association - the tribal identity is tenuous.
Yes Kalenjin is nilo-cushitic or nilo-hamitic - there is enough evidence from language, dna,history - to back that.
This is not something new - this something that researchers noticed as early 18th century.
Kalenjin language was controversially identified as nilotic by Greenbag (American-Jewish scholar)- but other linguistist disagree.
Half Kalenjin root words are Nilotic. Half of them cushitic.
For example Tree in Kalenjin and Somali is Ketit. Rain in kalenjin and Somali is rop. Goat in kalenjin and Somali is artet.
Nilo-cushitic include Kalenjin - and to some extent Maasai, Turkanas and Samburus.
So there is no kinship ties among Meru and Kikuyu and also names are lacking between both? You sound like Abiy Ahmed himself. Pundit i think you going bonkers nowadays bana. I saw you say Kalenjin are even Nilo-Cushitic(Lunacy )
All mountain kabilas have some level of kinship ties and share again like 80% of names but not all. Are you saying all kalenjin kabilas share all names?
Abdi Pundit even among speakers of a same language differences exit in names for example Kikuyu there are names typical of Nyeri but not Kiambu and viceversa in kirinyaga,Muranga and so on am I wrong???. Same to Meru ,kamba even among English speakers they will tell you that a specific name is from a specific region in spain france etc
Your points are invalid and you hereby dismissed concentrate on  mathematics and numbers otherwise hapa nitakupiga kama mburukenge.
And to leave you with just a tiny of names shared across mountain include ,karimi,murimi,gitonga,muchiri,kobia,mugambi,munene,kinyua,kiambi,mukami,muthoni,wanja,Njuki,muthomi,muriuki,kariuki The names are hundreds.
Mark you some names are so common among the kabilas unless you chcek where someone was born you will never tell if they are Meru kikuyu,embu or kamba.
As usual avoiding main topic and good at beating around the bush. Why don't you answer me on the names and kinship issue that I answered you on before moving the goal post again.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2021, 10:30:19 AM
What was name of Meru, Kikuyu, Kamba and Embu in the old days when they were one. I dont deny they are closely related. But It also tenous to call them one tribe.
As usual avoiding main topic and good at beating around the bush. Why don't you answer me on the names and kinship issue that I answered you on before moving the goal post again.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on November 04, 2021, 12:30:17 PM
What was name of Meru, Kikuyu, Kamba and Embu in the old days when they were one. I dont deny they are closely related. But It also tenous to call them one tribe.
As usual avoiding main topic and good at beating around the bush. Why don't you answer me on the names and kinship issue that I answered you on before moving the goal post again.
Asante sana to close this topic once and for all. THAGICU that was the common name for kikuyu kamba tigania cuka tharaka mwimbi igoji mbeere embu kirinyaga ndia etc people. That was our mother tribe. The current tribal names are maybe 150-200 years old.

https://discover.hubpages.com/education/Who-were-the-ancient-Thagichu-people-in-Kenya

Read below Kikuyu Meru were same known as Thagicu and split into 2 different groups.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Kikuyu_People/

Pundit I have treasure troves to reinforce my arguments but lack the time and patient you have to post them.

https://www.everyculture.com/Africa-Middle-East/Kikuyu-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

Kubali yaishe brother hapa you cornered kama Abiy na Gatheca
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 04, 2021, 12:32:56 PM
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 05, 2021, 06:29:30 AM
What was name of Meru, Kikuyu, Kamba and Embu in the old days when they were one. I dont deny they are closely related. But It also tenous to call them one tribe.
As usual avoiding main topic and good at beating around the bush. Why don't you answer me on the names and kinship issue that I answered you on before moving the goal post again.
Asante sana to close this topic once and for all. THAGICU that was the common name for kikuyu kamba tigania cuka tharaka mwimbi igoji mbeere embu kirinyaga ndia etc people. That was our mother tribe. The current tribal names are maybe 150-200 years old.

https://discover.hubpages.com/education/Who-were-the-ancient-Thagichu-people-in-Kenya

Read below Kikuyu Meru were same known as Thagicu and split into 2 different groups.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Kikuyu_People/

Pundit I have treasure troves to reinforce my arguments but lack the time and patient you have to post them.

https://www.everyculture.com/Africa-Middle-East/Kikuyu-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html

Kubali yaishe brother hapa you cornered kama Abiy na Gatheca
Since the conversation has been going on, I managed to pair a real Nyeri Kikuyu woman and a Meru woman linguistically. I found out that a Meru woman can understand the Kikuyu language by about 30%. On the other hand, Kikuyu woman understands Meru by 5%. There is a possibility a lot of Merus can understand Kikuyu to some minor extent. Still, the Majority of Kikuyu going by this one-on-one experiment don't understand the Meru language, and if they do, it is on a minimal scale. I prefer reality to guesswork.
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on November 05, 2021, 06:47:55 AM
Kalenjin ( at least 4 substribes of Nandi, Kipsigis, Tugen (not Aror), Keiyo) are not only close by language, they have kinship ties, always knew they were sons of one family, and were one people.Kalenjin are more like Kikuyu dialect of Kiambu, Muranga, Kindia, Gichugu, Nyeri....than Meru/Embu.I can tell you btw Nandi and Kipsigis - they similar clans - and I think you cannot intermarry even accross - previously a nandi or kipisigs would move to either land - and settle down.

Language wise - I think btw Nandi and Kipisigs - I saw maybe 1-2 root words are different - to see (ker, Iro) - the rest are similar.

You can tell that Pokot split up earlier from rest of Kalenjin, then followed by marakwet, the rest split up recently, with nandi-kipsigis essentially the same people.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234673223.pdf

I doubt. Is that supported by any linguistic evidence?? You see Kalenjin was created by Moi during the 1950s,at thats same time Merus,Embus were simply was called Kikuyus but now the Bazungu broke it up for political reasons and separated them into Meru land unit etc then the languages were very similar then bazungu used kambas and kikuyus as translators when meeting merus as no merus spoke English back then.
You can say now there us a rift as Kikuyu embu and Meru have developed separately however the basic structure of all those language  is 70,% same. Merus have little problem understanding speech of embu or kikuyu even without intermingling with them go to rural areas in meru they will set their radio on any radio station whether Kikuyu or Meru etc. However Meru is more difficult for a kikuyu to understand straight up without have intermingled.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/places/africa/kenyan-political-geography/meru
I still think Kalenjin is just a polity really not a cohesive tribe in language, culture naming system etc like GEMA.


The table crafted by white folks gave 91% and 85% to Keiyo and Tugen because they did not factor in mini clans/tribes within Tugen and Keiyo. If you take out Arror Tugens and 5% of Keiyos boarderline with Marakwets 100% can be achieved. Lembus Tugens in Eldama Ravine, Keiyos, Nandi, and Kipsigis are about 100% similar except for accents and may be 2 or 5 words. Between Keiyo and Nandi, it is only one word (Vagina). No other word has ever been Identified as different. With Kipsigis, I think Unga and a few other words!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2021, 09:16:03 AM
The Mzungu who did Nandi-Kipsigis found 97 percent similarity. When a Kalenjin did comparison - it was 99 percent. There very few different words - one I can recall is Iro/Ker - for to see. Vagina and such - are euphemism words. Accent wise Kipsigis especially from Bomet has Gusii influence (Bantus try to vowelize the ending words - producing a sing-song effect - no bantu word end with a constant almost) - while Nandi, Keiyo and Lembus - are essentially very close.
Pokot, Aror, Northern Keiyo/Marakwet - and Sebie/Sabaot - speak a wierd kalenjin - with lots of turkana and bukusu influence - I get impression they speak like small kids in our place - like they were about to lose the language?
The table crafted by white folks gave 91% and 85% to Keiyo and Tugen because they did not factor in mini clans/tribes within Tugen and Keiyo. If you take out Arror Tugens and 5% of Keiyos boarderline with Marakwets 100% can be achieved. Lembus Tugens in Eldama Ravine, Keiyos, Nandi, and Kipsigis are about 100% similar except for accents and may be 2 or 5 words. Between Keiyo and Nandi, it is only one word (Vagina). No other word has ever been Identified as different. With Kipsigis, I think Unga and a few other words!
Title: Re: Most pro hasola MP is an Injun, go figure!
Post by: RV Pundit on November 05, 2021, 09:35:47 AM
Merus or Embu like my wife - can speak Kikuyus (sort of learn it easily and speak it) - for Kalenjin - a kipsigis  -  can speak like Nandi or Keiyo - I dont need to learn Keiyo or Nandi - I just need to sound like them
Since the conversation has been going on, I managed to pair a real Nyeri Kikuyu woman and a Meru woman linguistically. I found out that a Meru woman can understand the Kikuyu language by about 30%. On the other hand, Kikuyu woman understands Meru by 5%. There is a possibility a lot of Merus can understand Kikuyu to some minor extent. Still, the Majority of Kikuyu going by this one-on-one experiment don't understand the Meru language, and if they do, it is on a minimal scale. I prefer reality to guesswork.