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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 04:23:26 PM

Title: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 04:23:26 PM
Some how GEMA acts in unison and exclusive of all other values other than collective good. Whether it is Kamanda writing an unintelligible "report" clearing SGR (Railway); Or a tribal council coming together to clear Equity vs Safaricom - the actions are concerted and aimed at the betterment of the GEMA community.

That is what makes other Kenyans extremely suspicious of GEMA.
Quote
The Federation of Kenyan Employers (FKE) has said calls for a referendum are creating an environment that may dent investor confidence.

The employers also criticised the impending government move to implement new National Health Insurance Fund (NHIF) rates.

The FKE said in a statement that it was improper for the NHIF to announce a major change touching on employees without engaging their employers as key stakeholders.

"Whereas employers do not contribute to this fund, their role in collection, remittance and compliance must not be downplayed," said FKE.

LACK OF DIRECTION

The employers argued that health care is a complex national issue for which adequate and effective consultations are key.

They said such actions show lack of clear direction on how to implement the government's plan for universal health care.

"Further, making such unilateral decisions could bring to question the capacity of NHIF to handle the intended changes in a well-thought-out manner," said the employers.

On the clamour for a national referendum by both the opposition and the Council of Governors, FKE said that the effects of the referendum should be properly gauged to the already high cost of doing business in the country.

They said it was not yet time for the country to be engulfed in yet another political duel just a year after the hotly contested general election besides the country trying to crawl from other hostile challenges posed by insecurity and terrorism.

"Kenya is on the right path to economic prosperity and whilst devolution is also set to transform the outlook of Kenya, this depends on how we are quickly able to get all structures working effectively and ensure that time and resources are not wasted on unnecessary sideshows," argue the employers.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Referendum-push-scaring-investors/-/1056/2466004/-/1vc3lrz/-/index.html
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:00:52 PM
Negro,
yours is a self-fulfilling prophecy
Take Equity. Is it really GEMA? Break down its shareholdings and revert asap

On Referendum, and I think Njue was being the idiot i have always thought him to be, what makes you think that ONLY GEMA is against Referendum? That appears to be the cheapest slur you can hurl at those who oppose Rayirla.

So you will see GEMA whenever and wherever and you will see self-interest whenever and wherever. And when there is no GEMA like in Duale, you will see bribery.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:14:25 PM
Negro,
yours is a self-fulfilling prophecy
Take Equity. Is it really GEMA? Break down its shareholdings and revert asap

On Referendum, and I think Njue was being the idiot i have always thought him to be, what makes you think that ONLY GEMA is against Referendum? That appears to be the cheapest slur you can hurl at those who oppose Rayirla.

So you will see GEMA whenever and wherever and you will see self-interest whenever and wherever. And when there is no GEMA like in Duale, you will see bribery.
You picked out one example to prosecute. I cited Equity case as an example of GEMA acting in concert. You have gone ahead of me to state what I had not yet considered seriously.

1. Who else has a motive for opposing the referendum
2. Do you happen to know who the "others" are?

Here is what I found on Equity. Note it is not my focus.
Equity Bank Group Stock Ownership
Rank   ---Name of Owner----------------------------------------Percentage Ownership

1   Helios Investment Partners of the United Kingdom-----------24.45
2   British-American Investments Company--------------------------7.66
3   Equity Bank Employees’ Share Ownership Plan-----------------3.86
4   James Njuguna Mwangi----------------------------------------------3.45
5   Equity Nominees Limited A/C 00104-------------------------------2.97
6   Fortress Highlands Limited------------------------------------------2.73
7   Others-------------------------------------------------------------------54.88
Total------------------------------------------------------------------------100.00
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:19:21 PM
Quote
Who Actually Owns Equity Bank?
By a Guest writer (Mark)

Besides the fact that Transcentury holds a direct stake in Equity bank, it also holds a stake through Britak which in turn has a large shareholding of Equity Bank.

Recently, Transcentury also bought the maximum stake allowable for one shareholder of a bank in Kenya (24.9%) though their holding in Helios EB Partners. Helios Partners is a foreign incorporated company that recently got new investors in the form of Transcentury and more than half the money invested by Transcentury ($300M = Ksh 19.5B) came in to increase the capital of Equity Bank (This amount was approx Ksh 11B). The Finance Minster decided to look the other side as this transaction happened right under his nose. He even gave this group the exception from any scrutiny of who the shareholders are for 9 years.

Essentially, we will never know who the investors are for 9 years in this bank. Why would the government official make an unprecedented decision to exclude them from a regulation to protect consumers in such a sensitive sector? The reason could be to be to hide the fact that the ‘foreign investment’ is actually local investors and the fact that the same local investors have violated the max. Shareholding rules for banks. Picture this…

• Maximum Shareholding allowable to a shareholder who is not an executive = 24.9%

• Equity bank holding through Britak = 10%

• Equity Bank holding as Transcentury directly = aprox 3+%
Clearly, Transcentury now holds more that 38% of Equity Bank!

Proof of this available on: http://www.transcentury.co.ke/transcentury/portfolio.asp

For the government officer involved… what was in it for him? For the government? Think of Equity bank chairman in London with PNU chaps openly campaigning for PNU and rubbishing ODM… do you start to get the answers?

Issue with Diversity at Equity Bank:

We have established that the majority shareholder is Transcentury, now other issue is almost all senior managers of the bank are from one community. Over 85% of the employees in the bank are from the same community. The converse is that more than 50% of the banks customers are drawn from all the ethnic communities of this country. How do you support a company that does not promote diversity? There are multitudes of Private companies that do not promote diversity, but the duty for a listed company is to represent all Kenyans in its workforce and Equity is not exempted. If they exempt themselves, then we tell their customers so they can choose if that’s acceptable.

Business Model:

Most people defending Equity bank never fail to mention that it has helped the poor and I support that, but this particular business model targeting the millions at the bottom of the pyramid is no longer unique to Equity Bank. We have leading financial institutions like Barclays, KCB following suit and doing it well with their deep pockets. KCB as a local bank and deserves our support, Barclays too because in as much as it’s about capitalism for its shareholders, they promote diversity internally in their recruiting.

IPO (initial Public offer)

Please note that Equity bank is the only listed company that got listed on the NSE without selling any new shares, so it wasn’t an initial public offer per se but a listing. The difference is it retains the exact shareholding when on the NSE as before with no dilution at all. These and only these shareholders were able to benefit with this listing, and later, the secondary buyers and sellers on the NSE. The best way to say this is they got credibility out of the listing without offering anything to the public.

Tell tale signs of the success of the Boycott:

• A day after word spread around on this, I had a chat with some staff members and one mentioned that they stopped 2 days ago paying cash against uncleared cheques even for a fee.
• Share starts the downward trend and will be a good sign that ODMs strategy is working.
• Few to no deposits in Equities branches in Western and Rift Valley. The first sign of a run on the bank and I am sure the CBK will come and rescue them by closing these branches due to the ethnic connections they have.
• Equity bank website www.equitybank.co.ke is now down. Reason? You and I can speculate that they have something to hide… I was looking for the IPO briefing document that listed the largest shareholders, but doubt you will find it again. I had to revert to an earlier download.

Eventually really, if they can balance the staff and hiring to represent the face of Kenya without bias, and I am sure they can find skilled talent from all ethnic communities, though they choose otherwise, then the boycott should be re-considered.


-Mark-
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:19:37 PM
I don't and neither are you but NOBODY holds anything more than the quoted ratios. Recall the company listed at NSE, I have no idea how many shares was listed but they was oversubscribed. Does that prove anything? Why would GEMA act in concert over Equity?

Jubirlee gavaa is against the referendum for one
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Kichwambaya on September 26, 2014, 05:20:07 PM
How can a people exercising their constitutionally sanctioned democratic rights dent investor confidence. Even if it were, what is more important, investors confidence or wanaichi's democratic rights.  Only in Kenya can people make such idiotic statements and get away with it.  Contrast. Whe Mayor Di Blasio of NYC was asked whether the protesters caused traffic jam, he retorted, "1ST Amendment is more important than traffic jams".
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
How much stake does Trancentury hold in Helios?
This is bartalk my broda
And am sure you have no idea Helio almost exited
Quote
Who Actually Owns Equity Bank?
By a Guest writer (Mark)

Besides the fact that Transcentury holds a direct stake in Equity bank, it also holds a stake through Britak which in turn has a large shareholding of Equity Bank.

Recently, Transcentury also bought the maximum stake allowable for one shareholder of a bank in Kenya (24.9%) though their holding in Helios EB Partners. Helios Partners is a foreign incorporated company that recently got new investors in the form of Transcentury and more than half the money invested by Transcentury ($300M = Ksh 19.5B) came in to increase the capital of Equity Bank (This amount was approx Ksh 11B). The Finance Minster decided to look the other side as this transaction happened right under his nose. He even gave this group the exception from any scrutiny of who the shareholders are for 9 years.

Essentially, we will never know who the investors are for 9 years in this bank. Why would the government official make an unprecedented decision to exclude them from a regulation to protect consumers in such a sensitive sector? The reason could be to be to hide the fact that the ‘foreign investment’ is actually local investors and the fact that the same local investors have violated the max. Shareholding rules for banks. Picture this…

• Maximum Shareholding allowable to a shareholder who is not an executive = 24.9%

• Equity bank holding through Britak = 10%

• Equity Bank holding as Transcentury directly = aprox 3+%
Clearly, Transcentury now holds more that 38% of Equity Bank!

Proof of this available on: http://www.transcentury.co.ke/transcentury/portfolio.asp

For the government officer involved… what was in it for him? For the government? Think of Equity bank chairman in London with PNU chaps openly campaigning for PNU and rubbishing ODM… do you start to get the answers?

Issue with Diversity at Equity Bank:

We have established that the majority shareholder is Transcentury, now other issue is almost all senior managers of the bank are from one community. Over 85% of the employees in the bank are from the same community. The converse is that more than 50% of the banks customers are drawn from all the ethnic communities of this country. How do you support a company that does not promote diversity? There are multitudes of Private companies that do not promote diversity, but the duty for a listed company is to represent all Kenyans in its workforce and Equity is not exempted. If they exempt themselves, then we tell their customers so they can choose if that’s acceptable.

Business Model:

Most people defending Equity bank never fail to mention that it has helped the poor and I support that, but this particular business model targeting the millions at the bottom of the pyramid is no longer unique to Equity Bank. We have leading financial institutions like Barclays, KCB following suit and doing it well with their deep pockets. KCB as a local bank and deserves our support, Barclays too because in as much as it’s about capitalism for its shareholders, they promote diversity internally in their recruiting.

IPO (initial Public offer)

Please note that Equity bank is the only listed company that got listed on the NSE without selling any new shares, so it wasn’t an initial public offer per se but a listing. The difference is it retains the exact shareholding when on the NSE as before with no dilution at all. These and only these shareholders were able to benefit with this listing, and later, the secondary buyers and sellers on the NSE. The best way to say this is they got credibility out of the listing without offering anything to the public.

Tell tale signs of the success of the Boycott:

• A day after word spread around on this, I had a chat with some staff members and one mentioned that they stopped 2 days ago paying cash against uncleared cheques even for a fee.
• Share starts the downward trend and will be a good sign that ODMs strategy is working.
• Few to no deposits in Equities branches in Western and Rift Valley. The first sign of a run on the bank and I am sure the CBK will come and rescue them by closing these branches due to the ethnic connections they have.
• Equity bank website www.equitybank.co.ke is now down. Reason? You and I can speculate that they have something to hide… I was looking for the IPO briefing document that listed the largest shareholders, but doubt you will find it again. I had to revert to an earlier download.

Eventually really, if they can balance the staff and hiring to represent the face of Kenya without bias, and I am sure they can find skilled talent from all ethnic communities, though they choose otherwise, then the boycott should be re-considered.


-Mark-
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:29:31 PM
I don't and neither are you but NOBODY holds anything more than the quoted ratios. Recall the company listed at NSE, I have no idea how many shares was listed but they was oversubscribed. Does that prove anything? Why would GEMA act in concert over Equity?

Jubirlee gavaa is against the referendum for one
Now you are where you should I have been before pointing a finger at me. I never established the motive for the evidently concerted actions. My speculation is as good as yours. A friend says GEMA by some method has majority shareholding. I have nothing to support that as you know mercantile issues are uninteresting to me.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:34:32 PM
How much stake does Trancentury hold in Helios?
This is bartalk my broda
And am sure you have no idea Helio almost exited
Could repeating help? I have no idea who owns Equity. I cited the ACTIONS of GEMA on this matter. I have no idea what the motive is and perhaps a deeper understanding of the ownership could explain. It is speculative.

If Equity is not a good example of GEMA acting in concert, I can well withdraw it and replace it with twenty other examples. We can look at the National Security Advisory Council. There are many examples of the Central Bank (NJuguna Ndungu); KRA (Njiraini); KPA (GEMA) acting in concert. I think you are deliberately missing the point.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:35:11 PM
Parliament(Jubirlee/GEMA) is certainly [pulling in the opposite direction and Wangusi is no GEMA but of course he was bribed


Now you are where you should I have been before pointing a finger at me. I never established the motive for the evidently concerted actions. My speculation is as good as yours. A friend says GEMA by some method has majority shareholding. I have nothing to support that as you know mercantile issues are uninteresting to me.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:37:25 PM

There are NO GEMA actions behind Equity, you just see what you want. Let's drop bartalk and stick to a SINGLE example

Could repeating help? I have no idea who owns Equity. I cited the ACTIONS of GEMA on this matter. I have no idea what the motive is and perhaps a deeper understanding of the ownership could explain. It is speculative.

If Equity is not a good example of GEMA acting in concert, I can well withdraw it and replace it with twenty other examples. We can look at the National Security Advisory Council. There are many examples of the Central Bank (NJuguna Ndungu); KRA (Njiraini); KPA (GEMA) acting in concert. I think you are deliberately missing the point.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:38:36 PM
Parliament is simply seeking rent bro. You know it and they have just got freezing cold water in the lap. Wangusi is a window dressing. Now is your turn to look at the composition of the CCK Board.

Parliament(Jubirlee/GEMA) is certainly [pulling in the opposite direction and Wangusi is no GEMA but of course he was bribed


Now you are where you should I have been before pointing a finger at me. I never established the motive for the evidently concerted actions. My speculation is as good as yours. A friend says GEMA by some method has majority shareholding. I have nothing to support that as you know mercantile issues are uninteresting to me.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:42:25 PM
I called it
Either there be one too many GEMA or non-GEMA was bribed
Pundit can't stomach PORK-In-Waiting opposing referendum. He is an oddity and must be Ouru's poodle or something
Parliament is simply seeking rent bro. You know it and they have just got freezing cold water in the lap. Wangusi is a window dressing. Now is your turn to look at the composition of the CCK Board.

Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 26, 2014, 05:44:58 PM
Nope. I can't stomach DPORK opposing devolution. Something dear to RVs.
Pundit can't stomach PORK-In-Waiting opposing referendum. He is an oddity and must be Ouru's poodle or something
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:47:35 PM
--- image removed----

There are NO GEMA actions behind Equity, you just see what you want. Let's drop bartalk and stick to a SINGLE example
vooke

You got amusing jokes:

1. CCK - Gema dominated - approves
2. Central Bank - Gema - Approves
3. Note that it is not even Wangusi who announced the decision but the Chairman (which is NOT his mandate)
Quote
The Authority has today allowed Finserve Africa Limited, a subsidiary of Equity Bank to roll-out its services using the thin SIM technology, for a one year trial period.

This follows contention by Mobile Service Provider, Safaricom over the use of the technology in the Kenyan market, citing possible security flaws.

Addressing the press today, CA Chairman Ngene Gituku said, the Authority, jointly with the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) had reviewed Safaricom’s complaints arriving at the conclusion that the technology is safe for use in the country.

 ‘‘The two regulators engaged both Safaricom Limited and Finserve Kenya Limited for separate hearings on the matter. The two regulators also sought representations from Taisys SIMoME®, who is the manufacturer of the thin SIM in question. Opinion on the use of overlay SIM was also sought from GSMA, the association of GSM service providers and manufacturers of various products used in the provision of GSM services,’’ said Mr. Gituku.

Safaricom argued that the use of the overlay SIM alongside other GSM handsets may cause interruption and interception of communication. Additionally, the operator claimed that the technology would likely introduce vulnerabilities in the network as well as infringing on intellectual property rights.

After engaging various parties, the two regulators found that the technology meets all minimum mandatory international standards pertaining to the manufacturing of the thin SIM. “No major complaints and particularly on interception of traffic of the primary SIM card has been reported so far. According to GSMA, save for the inherent vulnerabilities of all SIM cards, there are no specific and confirmed vulnerabilities arising from the use of the thin SIM,” added Mr. Gituku.

During the one year trial period, the Authority will engage the services of an internationally reputable firm to conduct a security audit on all SIM cards, and in particular the use of the thin SIM in mobile transfer services, and recommend a framework for regulating the use of SIM cards in Kenya.

Should any vulnerability occur from the use of Taisys thin SIM card within this one year testing period, then operations of the SIM card in the Kenyan market will cease forthwith pending the final recommendations from the security report.

CBK Governor Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u said the Kenyan market is ready for new frontiers that will ensure that all Kenyans have access to mobile money and other banking services.

CA Director General Francis Wangusi was optimistic that the coming in of new players in the sector, especially MVNOs, would provide consumers with a variety of services and open up space for greater innovation in the sector
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 05:53:01 PM
I called it
Either there be one too many GEMA or non-GEMA was bribed
Pundit can't stomach PORK-In-Waiting opposing referendum. He is an oddity and must be Ouru's poodle or something
Parliament is simply seeking rent bro. You know it and they have just got freezing cold water in the lap. Wangusi is a window dressing. Now is your turn to look at the composition of the CCK Board.

I think your analogy is wrong. You should look at the facts but also the circumstances and apply your knowledge of the special country Kenya.

1. It raised eyebrows that the Chairman of the Board sidelined the CEO (Isaac Hassan style) and took over the decision making;
2. Did CBK governor recuse himself from the decision-making process owing to his interests in Equity, his role as the CBK governor etc. Instead he joined the CA Chairman as he announced the waiver.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 26, 2014, 05:58:30 PM
Negro,
Please let me go relax, I have a loooong trip ahead tomorrow. I will respond accordingly when am free
My two cents is you reading Okoyuism (a bad thing) too hard even where it is not the case. You have a weakness; you exaggerate too much and this makes one ignore your points which are usually right and focus on debunking your 'excesses'

I think your analogy is wrong. You should look at the facts but also the circumstances and apply your knowledge of the special country Kenya.

1. It raised eyebrows that the Chairman of the Board sidelined the CEO (Isaac Hassan style) and took over the decision making;
2. Did CBK governor recuse himself from the decision-making process owing to his interests in Equity, his role as the CBK governor etc. Instead he joined the CA Chairman as he announced the waiver.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Robina on September 26, 2014, 08:41:11 PM
Gema runs a cabal. It's called self preservation. Not different from other groups with some intelligence. How else do you suppose they should act?
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Kichwambaya on September 26, 2014, 08:48:57 PM
Robina, we know why they act the way they do but that does not make it right or acceptable. In law they allow self-defense as a justification defense but not self-preseavation. In other words, if you are stranded in an Island with another indvidual without food and water, you cannot kill her and eat her to self-presearve.


Gema runs a cabal. It's called self preservation. Not different from other groups with some intelligence. How else do you suppose they should act?
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 26, 2014, 08:56:19 PM
What is remarkable is the simple fact that having taken over state institutions that are supposed to curb such behavior, they proceeded to emasculate the institutions and bend them to allow, facilitate and support the very acts those institutions are supposed to be fighting. That appears to be the way around the institutions. While in the Kenyatta I Era, they would kill the institution and in Kibaki Era they would sideline it, under Uhuru they subjugate the institution.

It is the same whether you are thinking of the National Security Advisory Council which issues statements banning CORD rallies; Or The Central Bank taking partisan decisions favoring Equity and Nyooba owned businesses; Or KRA, Communication Authority and County Commissioners, etc.

Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Robina on September 26, 2014, 09:46:35 PM
Omollo, on Gemanistan, are we hopeless now that they have found a way around Chapter 6, etc? I rarely hear of NCIC anymore :-(

On a separate note, Safaricom's mobile money monopoly is a bad thing. Zero innovation for years. Time they stepped up.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: bryan275 on September 27, 2014, 02:32:28 PM
What is remarkable is the simple fact that having taken over state institutions that are supposed to curb such behavior, they proceeded to emasculate the institutions and bend them to allow, facilitate and support the very acts those institutions are supposed to be fighting. That appears to be the way around the institutions. While in the Kenyatta I Era, they would kill the institution and in Kibaki Era they would sideline it, under Uhuru they subjugate the institution.

It is the same whether you are thinking of the National Security Advisory Council which issues statements banning CORD rallies; Or The Central Bank taking partisan decisions favoring Equity and Nyooba owned businesses; Or KRA, Communication Authority and County Commissioners, etc.



Hear hear.  Now wait for those that call a cold description of their tribalistic ways as hate... Who's kidding who?  I'm looking at you Lamming and other lazy thinkers.

Dunia no duara, the best advice is that make sure you hang onto the instruments of power forever.  You never sideline a whole nation and then in the same breath call them lazy and haters.

What a hateful brainwashed community...
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 27, 2014, 02:49:01 PM
Omollo, on Gemanistan, are we hopeless now that they have found a way around Chapter 6, etc? I rarely hear of NCIC anymore :-(

On a separate note, Safaricom's mobile money monopoly is a bad thing. Zero innovation for years. Time they stepped up.
Robina

During the Moi Era, mandarins and sycophants around him would target existing wealth and take it from the owner instead of creating new wealth. This predatory behavior did not die under Kibaki but became rather subdued - more like a black / white recessive gene lies low and in wait for years in a seemingly white/ black man. While Kibaki saw raw scavenging (Kenya Railways), we are seeing a resurgence of predatory behavior in full.

I blame Safaricom for the failure of the internet to take off in Kenya. While Uganda and Rwanda networked fibre cables around the country, Safaricom sold something called "Bundles" in some extremely unreliable, slow and clumsy wireless system. The Landline died (Remember Safaricom was created from the rib of Telekom to help improve communication). Now it has veered from its core business practically abandoning voice services to dwell on Mpesa and enter the lucrative Corruption Sector.

Is the answer a messy scavenging attack? How about the regulator doing his job? How about the Monopolies Whatever ordering the break up and separation of Mpesa and Data from Voice services?

This can't be done because GEMA controls those institutions for the purpose of making sure they do not function.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 27, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
Omollo,

i beg to differ. Safaricom has been one of the most innovative company around (and so has Equity).

Internet in kenya is far superior to most of africa countries including even RSA.

CBK too has been pro-innovation..allowing mpesa and agent banking....abd banking in kenya is definitely more superior than any country in Africa...i think we have about 80% of folks holding bank accounts.

And Safaricom is not a monopoly because we have 3 (now 5) more competitors.

CA have done well to allow Equity to compete...security fears can be dealt with as we go on.


I blame Safaricom for the failure of the internet to take off in Kenya. While Uganda and Rwanda networked fibre cables around the country, Safaricom sold something called "Bundles" in some extremely unreliable, slow and clumsy wireless system. The Landline died (Remember Safaricom was created from the rib of Telekom to help improve communication). Now it has veered from its core business practically abandoning voice services to dwell on Mpesa and enter the lucrative Corruption Sector.

Is the answer a messy scavenging attack? How about the regulator doing his job? How about the Monopolies Whatever ordering the break up and separation of Mpesa and Data from Voice services?

This can't be done because GEMA controls those institutions for the purpose of making sure they do not function.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: anarchista on September 27, 2014, 08:19:59 PM
Safaricom is a monopoly , there's no doubt about that. Is safaricom an innovative company? I don't think so. Mpesa, which they claim, was never their idea. The were merely guinea pigs running a trial. So what have they innovated? Having mpesa agents was simply copying the sales book of vodacom india or vodacom uk where they have corner shops selling top-ups.

As for the internet Ndemo and that other ICT body they scrapped did the country a huge disservice by failing to properly plan the trajectory of internet use. Its not like they had to scratch their heads too hard- they could just copy any of a million countries. But they went to bed with safaricom and decided that because people were posting crap on facebook, we were fully wired.

Cables were landing in Mombasa every month yet speeds never rose and and rates never fell and in any case they had moved on to Konza City aka silicon savannah aka just another scam. How's that going?

Like Omollo, my take is that we should have focused on getting internet to the home. Gilgil could assemble computers given that you can get a used p4 for under 5k- thats still less than the cost of a cheapo chinese smartphone. Stick Linux on it and let the kids take over. There would have been a far greater economic benefit. And far more useful local content being developed and used.

As it is ihub is still trying to sell farmers milk where brookside has a monopoly or remind mothers of hospital appointments when the fact is she doesn't care about that appointment because she's feeling better and the hospital never has any medicines anyway.

Equity will give mpesa a run for their money- safaricom have already reduced their shylock rates. But last I heard MPs have put the CAK ruling on hold. You pays the piper...
Personally I think the onus is on safaricom to secure their system. FFS millions of chinese use thin sims. No tears there.

http://www.nation.co.ke/news/MPs-switch-off-Equity-SIM-card-to-await-probe/-/1056/2464448/-/vkxxgc/-/index.html
 (http://www.nation.co.ke/news/MPs-switch-off-Equity-SIM-card-to-await-probe/-/1056/2464448/-/vkxxgc/-/index.html)

I think the gamechanger may well be the cashless fare system. If they? can come up with a system that can be transferred to say the local kiosk, mpesa is dead.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: bryan275 on September 28, 2014, 07:59:07 PM
Omollo,


The collective push includes modern day "prophets" (http://www.kenyan-post.com/2014/09/city-prophetess-foresees-2-deaths-of-2.html) too...
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Georgesoros on September 28, 2014, 08:10:11 PM
This should done on a trial basis.

Omollo,

i beg to differ. Safaricom has been one of the most innovative company around (and so has Equity).

Internet in kenya is far superior to most of africa countries including even RSA.

CBK too has been pro-innovation..allowing mpesa and agent banking....abd banking in kenya is definitely more superior than any country in Africa...i think we have about 80% of folks holding bank accounts.

And Safaricom is not a monopoly because we have 3 (now 5) more competitors.

CA have done well to allow Equity to compete...security fears can be dealt with as we go on.


I blame Safaricom for the failure of the internet to take off in Kenya. While Uganda and Rwanda networked fibre cables around the country, Safaricom sold something called "Bundles" in some extremely unreliable, slow and clumsy wireless system. The Landline died (Remember Safaricom was created from the rib of Telekom to help improve communication). Now it has veered from its core business practically abandoning voice services to dwell on Mpesa and enter the lucrative Corruption Sector.

Is the answer a messy scavenging attack? How about the regulator doing his job? How about the Monopolies Whatever ordering the break up and separation of Mpesa and Data from Voice services?

This can't be done because GEMA controls those institutions for the purpose of making sure they do not function.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: gout on September 29, 2014, 01:00:15 PM
will never understand cost of safricom internet bundles.... despite having your device the cost of mbs is crazy yet cybers where you use cyber's computers you get internet for 50 cents per minute ...10 shillings in most cybers will get you good internet experience compare that to available mobile data offers
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 29, 2014, 02:37:02 PM
I haven't seen much of that Safaricom innovation. I have been to countries where there is real innovation. Leading telecom companies are also leaders in laying out fibre optic networks and providing improved (faster) internet services to homes and businesses.

The much hyped Mpesa is not that unique. It is a poor man's "innovation". I have been using my mobile to pay for goods and services long before Mpesa appeared in Kenya. Mpesa is not picking up in Developed countries because they can't go back to the pre-cambrian age just to make use of it. There is plastic and direct access to bank accounts by mobile phones which has been working quite well over the years. I think Mpesa itself must progress and improve to avoid holding back Kenyans away from progress.

Safaricom has belatedly been laying cables in Nairobi long after it destroyed the appetite for it with the so called "bundles". Nothing annoys me more than that word.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 29, 2014, 02:50:00 PM
Safaricom has been an engine of innovation and it's been rewarded by revenues and solid customers numbers. If you deride MPESA in this day and age then how can somebody begin to have conversation with you. It plain hopeless.
I haven't seen much of that Safaricom innovation. I have been to countries where there is real innovation. Leading telecom companies are also leaders in laying out fibre optic networks and providing improved (faster) internet services to homes and businesses.

The much hyped Mpesa is not that unique. It is a poor man's "innovation". I have been using my mobile to pay for goods and services long before Mpesa appeared in Kenya. Mpesa is not picking up in Developed countries because they can't go back to the pre-cambrian age just to make use of it. There is plastic and direct access to bank accounts by mobile phones which has been working quite well over the years. I think Mpesa itself must progress and improve to avoid holding back Kenyans away from progress.

Safaricom has belatedly been laying cables in Nairobi long after it destroyed the appetite for it with the so called "bundles". Nothing annoys me more than that word.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 29, 2014, 02:59:27 PM
Omorlo should give his examples of innovation in Kenia

MPesa failure to flourish abroad don't take nothing from the fact that it has here in Kenia

Safaricom has been an engine of innovation and it's been rewarded by revenues and solid customers numbers. If you deride MPESA in this day and age then how can somebody begin to have conversation with you. It plain hopeless.
I haven't seen much of that Safaricom innovation. I have been to countries where there is real innovation. Leading telecom companies are also leaders in laying out fibre optic networks and providing improved (faster) internet services to homes and businesses.

The much hyped Mpesa is not that unique. It is a poor man's "innovation". I have been using my mobile to pay for goods and services long before Mpesa appeared in Kenya. Mpesa is not picking up in Developed countries because they can't go back to the pre-cambrian age just to make use of it. There is plastic and direct access to bank accounts by mobile phones which has been working quite well over the years. I think Mpesa itself must progress and improve to avoid holding back Kenyans away from progress.

Safaricom has belatedly been laying cables in Nairobi long after it destroyed the appetite for it with the so called "bundles". Nothing annoys me more than that word.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 29, 2014, 03:05:47 PM
Safaricom has been an engine of innovation and it's been rewarded by revenues and solid customers numbers. If you deride MPESA in this day and age then how can somebody begin to have conversation with you. It plain hopeless.
No. You have missed the point. Mpesa is an innovation. But it is over hyped. I am saying that other countries and networks have been responding to the needs of their customer base with equally encompassing solutions. I pointed out that mobile phones have been used to make payments over a long period of time and before Mpesa. I am not diluting the importance of Mpesa in the developing economies. I am putting this in context.

I have misgivings about how Safaricom came to reach it level of monopoly. True, it earliest competition was a joke. I remember complaining to them (Kencell) that any call would be charged even if it fell / failed to connect and they went ballistic. But at the same time Safaricom was using the facilities of Telkom. Masts were erected at post offices and telkom properties. It moved forward with a lot of government support.

You can't overlook the anti-trust activities it has engaged in over the years. Ndemo became their point man overruling the regulator to allow them to keep fleecing customers with high tariffs.

Why have all the mobile companies not opened up their networks for use by their rivals? I had some work in Shimba hills and though there were masts, I could not make a call because they belonged to a different network. While all networks have done this, Safaricom is the leading culprit.

Customers can easily flee Safaricom except that the company with the help of the biased regulator and ministry (especially under Ndemo) have made it very inconvenient to contemplate.
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 29, 2014, 03:07:41 PM
Omorlo should give his examples of innovation in Kenia

MPesa failure to flourish abroad don't take nothing from the fact that it has here in Kenia
It has reached Romania. My point is not that at all. I just want us to curb our exuberance and understand that there are other innovations similar or better than Mpesa. 
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 29, 2014, 03:24:03 PM
This is no exuberance negro, it is where we @ and it is working for EVERYONE, else explain the 25B revenues from MPesa and the trillions worth of transactions. Negroes are dying to transfer. Remember their epic fail with Simu Ya Jamii?

So there are others ahead of Safcon in innovation? It don't matter, Safcon is not done yet, they now have merchants in it. MShwari is also riding on MPesa success. It is steps in the right direction that we salute not belittling their size
Omorlo should give his examples of innovation in Kenia

MPesa failure to flourish abroad don't take nothing from the fact that it has here in Kenia
It has reached Romania. My point is not that at all. I just want us to curb our exuberance and understand that there are other innovations similar or better than Mpesa. 
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 29, 2014, 03:30:11 PM
This argument is so much overused, you would think it is valid. Erecting masts on gavaa property is no advantage as such. There has NEVER been a shortage of areas to erect masts and providers pays next to peanuts for them. If Safcon used Telkom's non-existent infrastructure in any way, I'd listen to this argument.

Safcon like Equity bewilders many because of its frightening super fast growth and profitability. There is almost a Marxist tinge, aftertaste to these arguments. It goes like, 'if it is making all this money, it MUST be swindling us'.

Safaricom has been an engine of innovation and it's been rewarded by revenues and solid customers numbers. If you deride MPESA in this day and age then how can somebody begin to have conversation with you. It plain hopeless.
No. You have missed the point. Mpesa is an innovation. But it is over hyped. I am saying that other countries and networks have been responding to the needs of their customer base with equally encompassing solutions. I pointed out that mobile phones have been used to make payments over a long period of time and before Mpesa. I am not diluting the importance of Mpesa in the developing economies. I am putting this in context.

I have misgivings about how Safaricom came to reach it level of monopoly. True, it earliest competition was a joke. I remember complaining to them (Kencell) that any call would be charged even if it fell / failed to connect and they went ballistic. But at the same time Safaricom was using the facilities of Telkom. Masts were erected at post offices and telkom properties. It moved forward with a lot of government support.

You can't overlook the anti-trust activities it has engaged in over the years. Ndemo became their point man overruling the regulator to allow them to keep fleecing customers with high tariffs.

Why have all the mobile companies not opened up their networks for use by their rivals? I had some work in Shimba hills and though there were masts, I could not make a call because they belonged to a different network. While all networks have done this, Safaricom is the leading culprit.

Customers can easily flee Safaricom except that the company with the help of the biased regulator and ministry (especially under Ndemo) have made it very inconvenient to contemplate.

Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 29, 2014, 03:39:28 PM
You're confusing your personal feelings with your technical analysis of safaricom business (mainly in ICT+extra services). I am not a customer of safaricom myself; never owned mpesa account; i use orange mostly;

Let just say you're ignorant of the issues at hand and you're just complaining about quality of services, overcharged buddles and combined with personal diatribe.

No. You have missed the point. Mpesa is an innovation. But it is over hyped. I am saying that other countries and networks have been responding to the needs of their customer base with equally encompassing solutions. I pointed out that mobile phones have been used to make payments over a long period of time and before Mpesa. I am not diluting the importance of Mpesa in the developing economies. I am putting this in context.

I have misgivings about how Safaricom came to reach it level of monopoly. True, it earliest competition was a joke. I remember complaining to them (Kencell) that any call would be charged even if it fell / failed to connect and they went ballistic. But at the same time Safaricom was using the facilities of Telkom. Masts were erected at post offices and telkom properties. It moved forward with a lot of government support.

You can't overlook the anti-trust activities it has engaged in over the years. Ndemo became their point man overruling the regulator to allow them to keep fleecing customers with high tariffs.

Why have all the mobile companies not opened up their networks for use by their rivals? I had some work in Shimba hills and though there were masts, I could not make a call because they belonged to a different network. While all networks have done this, Safaricom is the leading culprit.

Customers can easily flee Safaricom except that the company with the help of the biased regulator and ministry (especially under Ndemo) have made it very inconvenient to contemplate.

Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 29, 2014, 03:45:07 PM
Well then, I will step back and let others debate until my personal feelings are separated from my person
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: Omollo on September 29, 2014, 03:48:55 PM
1. Mobile companies started rolling out their services in urban areas with Nairobi at the top. Is it true that it is that cheap to put up masts on private property in Nairobi? I do not agree. Not Mombasa either!

2. I think you are biased and not at all objective
This argument is so much overused, you would think it is valid. Erecting masts on gavaa property is no advantage as such. There has NEVER been a shortage of areas to erect masts and providers pays next to peanuts for them. If Safcon used Telkom's non-existent infrastructure in any way, I'd listen to this argument.

Safcon like Equity bewilders many because of its frightening super fast growth and profitability. There is almost a Marxist tinge, aftertaste to these arguments. It goes like, 'if it is making all this money, it MUST be swindling us'.

Safaricom has been an engine of innovation and it's been rewarded by revenues and solid customers numbers. If you deride MPESA in this day and age then how can somebody begin to have conversation with you. It plain hopeless.
No. You have missed the point. Mpesa is an innovation. But it is over hyped. I am saying that other countries and networks have been responding to the needs of their customer base with equally encompassing solutions. I pointed out that mobile phones have been used to make payments over a long period of time and before Mpesa. I am not diluting the importance of Mpesa in the developing economies. I am putting this in context.

I have misgivings about how Safaricom came to reach it level of monopoly. True, it earliest competition was a joke. I remember complaining to them (Kencell) that any call would be charged even if it fell / failed to connect and they went ballistic. But at the same time Safaricom was using the facilities of Telkom. Masts were erected at post offices and telkom properties. It moved forward with a lot of government support.

You can't overlook the anti-trust activities it has engaged in over the years. Ndemo became their point man overruling the regulator to allow them to keep fleecing customers with high tariffs.

Why have all the mobile companies not opened up their networks for use by their rivals? I had some work in Shimba hills and though there were masts, I could not make a call because they belonged to a different network. While all networks have done this, Safaricom is the leading culprit.

Customers can easily flee Safaricom except that the company with the help of the biased regulator and ministry (especially under Ndemo) have made it very inconvenient to contemplate.

Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 29, 2014, 03:57:26 PM
There is nothing to debate about feelings. We can only debate facts. Otherwise if we debate who got overcharged or had his calls terminated...we would need huge thread for that.
Well then, I will step back and let others debate until my personal feelings are separated from my person
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: RV Pundit on September 29, 2014, 04:02:31 PM
Safaricom began as gov parastal if you will...gov owned 60% of it..with vodafone coming in with 40%...so in an essence it was parastal..owned by Telkom Kenya. It began as dept in Extelecom. They therefore piggybacked on Telkom and public property.

And for that...the gov got paid...kshs 50b...for it's 25% shareholding.

And now the gov remaining 35% shareholding..is worth nearly kshs 200B.

Tell me any other gov investment that has been profitable. Let not about taxes..where safcom is now giving gov nearly 30B annually.

Safcom has repaid the tax payers 100 times.

Omollo quit hating (safcom or equity); step back and being objective.

1. Mobile companies started rolling out their services in urban areas with Nairobi at the top. Is it true that it is that cheap to put up masts on private property in Nairobi? I do not agree. Not Mombasa either!

2. I think you are biased and not at all objective
Title: Re: vooke explain: The Collective GEMA Push
Post by: vooke on September 29, 2014, 05:08:33 PM
I was about to type that the leasing charges for a mast are negligible especially the older ones
How much did Safaricom save by riding on Telkom property? How sure are you they never paid for them?
Safaricom got off with negligible to zero favors just like Equity
Negroes are self-hating. If it succeeds, it must have taken shortcuts is the thinking here. It don't matter if I can't see it. That is so Puakal-esque
Safaricom began as gov parastal if you will...gov owned 60% of it..with vodafone coming in with 40%...so in an essence it was parastal..owned by Telkom Kenya. It began as dept in Extelecom. They therefore piggybacked on Telkom and public property.

And for that...the gov got paid...kshs 50b...for it's 25% shareholding.

And now the gov remaining 35% shareholding..is worth nearly kshs 200B.

Tell me any other gov investment that has been profitable. Let not about taxes..where safcom is now giving gov nearly 30B annually.

Safcom has repaid the tax payers 100 times.

Omollo quit hating (safcom or equity); step back and being objective.

1. Mobile companies started rolling out their services in urban areas with Nairobi at the top. Is it true that it is that cheap to put up masts on private property in Nairobi? I do not agree. Not Mombasa either!

2. I think you are biased and not at all objective