Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on April 27, 2018, 05:16:50 PM
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Has me confused.
He wants 14 new units on top of the counties. The closest I come to understanding it is, he wants the counties to be contained within these 14 units. But he says nothing about what happens to county governors etc.
My preference would be, if you devolve into 14 units, let's call them states, they should decide how to partition themselves into smaller units. In the US, states most often have counties, but these can be parishes in others like Louisiana. And the Federal government or constitution has no say on how the individual states decide to partition themselves.
I think for devolution to work, real autonomy has to be considered. People tend to make better decisions when they feel they have some skin in the game.
Raila told the Devolution Conference on Wednesday that Kenya should now adopt three tiers of government, a proposal that was shelved before the 2010 referendum.
"As a matter of lasting solution to the problem posed by sizes of devolved units, we need to bite the bullet and revisit the structure of devolution," Raila said.
"... the Bomas draft divided Kenya into 14 regions, it is time to look at how to recover this original spirit.. my proposal is we adopt a three-tier system of government."
Raila said Kenya should retain the current Counties but establish 14 regional or provincial blocks as units of disbursement of resources and the National government.
https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2018/04/25/raila-proposes-three-tier-government-to-enhance-devolution_c1749354
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It's indeed confusing. Ruto interpreted it in the same way you do. Asking why should we pile more trouble on Kenyans when counties are already in place? Methinks Raila needs to explain it further. I thought he meant 14 regional governments and 47 counties under them. Perhaps then we have 14 governors and 47 counties under them, sort of like districts of them days under a PC. Since financial viability is the big question, it means the issues of revenue collection and allocation then go to the 14 units rather than 47 unmanageable, corrupt and tribal enclaves that we have today. Then administratively, we have a parliamentary system rather than a presidential one. The proposal was mainly on a financial basis, but it seems he's also speaking on the parliamentary system. That is what gets Ruto really worked up. He opposed it last time and succeeded because Kibaki's PNU wanted a strongman for president.
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It's indeed confusing. Ruto interpreted it in the same way you do. Asking why should we pile more trouble on Kenyans when counties are already in place? Methinks Raila needs to explain it further. I thought he meant 14 regional governments and 47 counties under them. Perhaps then we have 14 governors and 47 counties under them, sort of like districts of them days under a PC. Since financial viability is the big question, it means the issues of revenue collection and allocation then go to the 14 units rather than 47 unmanageable, corrupt and tribal enclaves that we have today. Then administratively, we have a parliamentary system rather than a presidential one. The proposal was mainly on a financial basis, but it seems he's also speaking on the parliamentary system. That is what gets Ruto really worked up. He opposed it last time and succeeded because Kibaki's PNU wanted a strongman for president.
My preference would be to forego the 47 counties altogether and go with 14 or less regions in real Federal system. The regions then get to decide their governing structures, how they choose their leadership etc. Some regions will go with the bloated governments, others might see sense in going leaner. But it should be left to those levels to make this call.
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14 counties - how would you split kenya into arbitrary 14 states? Big tribes will dominate the 14 States and lord off the small tribes. 47 counties is the magic. It just about 42 tribes - with each county bar a few homegenous - with about 5 city counties that are cosmopolitan.In principal - federalism can be done on the 47 counties - and roughly we are around 50M - so each county is roughly 1M people. That is not a small unit.
What we need is to increasingly add more responsibilities to counties until it become federalism - slowly and responsibly.
We also need to redraw the boundaries after census to make sure each county is at least 1M people.
And 47 counties didn't just come out of nowhere...kenyans were asked by British in 1962..where they wanted to belong..and they chose around 40 district with borders strictly along tribal lines...Moi+Kenyatta added a few...but overally Kenya should be split into 42 tribal regions....at least any tribe that has 500K people deserve a county...and those should eventually become states or federal republic.
My preference would be to forego the 47 counties altogether and go with 14 or less regions in real Federal system. The regions then get to decide their governing structures, how they choose their leadership etc. Some regions will go with the bloated governments, others might see sense in going leaner. But it should be left to those levels to make this call.
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Good argument for the 47 but I would like to hear more about the 14 and the three tier system. I think the debate on how we govern ourselves is overdue and should not be stifled.
14 counties - how would you split kenya into arbitrary 14 states? Big tribes will dominate the 14 States and lord off the small tribes. 47 counties is the magic. It just about 42 tribes - with each county bar a few homegenous - with about 5 city counties that are cosmopolitan.In principal - federalism can be done on the 47 counties - and roughly we are around 50M - so each county is roughly 1M people. That is not a small unit.
What we need is to increasingly add more responsibilities to counties until it become federalism - slowly and responsibly.
We also need to redraw the boundaries after census to make sure each county is at least 1M people.
And 47 counties didn't just come out of nowhere...kenyans were asked by British in 1962..where they wanted to belong..and they chose around 40 district with borders strictly along tribal lines...Moi+Kenyatta added a few...but overally Kenya should be split into 42 tribal regions....at least any tribe that has 500K people deserve a county...and those should eventually become states or federal republic.
My preference would be to forego the 47 counties altogether and go with 14 or less regions in real Federal system. The regions then get to decide their governing structures, how they choose their leadership etc. Some regions will go with the bloated governments, others might see sense in going leaner. But it should be left to those levels to make this call.
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3 tier system is bullshit, either merge the counties or leave them as is, this just looks like a ploy to create position for the likes of joho so they can continue supporting Raila
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2 tier system is not a true devolution. We need bigger self-sustaining units that can then be subdivided into counties or municipalities. Kenya is the size of Texas and yet Kenya has 47 devolved units while Texas is one of 50 states in the USA. What we really have in Kenya is not devolution but 47 counties under one government. We need to decide whether we want a true devolution or keep the almighty central government. Ruto's dream is to be Kenya's strong-man and that is why he is opposed to bigger self-sustaining units and a third tier of governance.
3 tier system is bullshit, either merge the counties or leave them as is, this just looks like a ploy to create position for the likes of joho so they can continue supporting Raila
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Nobody is going to give up their counties. We had long debate in 2010 and eventually settle at what we have.
2 tier system is not a true devolution. We need bigger self-sustaining units that can then be subdivided into counties or municipalities. Kenya is the size of Texas and yet Kenya has 47 devolved units while Texas is one of 50 states in the USA. What we really have in Kenya is not devolution but 47 counties under one government. We need to decide whether we want a true devolution or keep the almighty central government. Ruto's dream is to be Kenya's strong-man and that is why he is opposed to bigger self-sustaining units and a third tier of governance.
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Its going to require persuasion with details. Most people wanted to cling to the central government and the old administrative system. Counties could still remain intact as the first tier of devolution.
Nobody is going to give up their counties. We had long debate in 2010 and eventually settle at what we have.
2 tier system is not a true devolution. We need bigger self-sustaining units that can then be subdivided into counties or municipalities. Kenya is the size of Texas and yet Kenya has 47 devolved units while Texas is one of 50 states in the USA. What we really have in Kenya is not devolution but 47 counties under one government. We need to decide whether we want a true devolution or keep the almighty central government. Ruto's dream is to be Kenya's strong-man and that is why he is opposed to bigger self-sustaining units and a third tier of governance.
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Why are large units - more viable. Seem the ant-thesis of devolution. Those 14 counties will only make sense if we are going federal...not devolution. But knowing our tribal tapestry it's going to be hard splitting kenya into 24 units.
Anyway I think both ideas - executive pm elected by PM (parliamentary systems) and 14 counties will fail like it did in 2010!
Its going to require persuasion with details. Most people wanted to cling to the central government and the old administrative system. Counties could still remain intact as the first tier of devolution.
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Kenya is devolved not federal. We copied our "devolution" from the UK which has only 3 devolved units plus a big central English country. Unlike the US or German federalism which is about the economy, the UK is about political accomodation of autonomous tribes. The English majority, the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish.
Kenya's devolution is first about tribalism - due to domination by Kalenjin and GEMA - so in this sense it's better to just shift the Kuria to Kisii, etc.
The regionalism is about economics and should be carefully crafted along these lines. Not the supraethnic "Ukambani" or "Coast" which we scrapped recently. SA has a 3-tier system and parliamentary. How has it worked out? I think it's too early to tell? Also SA and the countries with national-state-municipal layers have much bigger economies than ours.
Personally I support parliamentary with the present counties. But the new system is only 5years old. Give it 20years otherwise on what basis is the debate now?
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This is not 2010-things have changed. There will be a compromise but things will have to change. This is not all about Kalenjins and Ruto. There are other Kenyans too and the upende usipende Ruto/kalenjin attitude is not going to work any more.
Why are large units - more viable. Seem the ant-thesis of devolution. Those 14 counties will only make sense if we are going federal...not devolution. But knowing our tribal tapestry it's going to be hard splitting kenya into 24 units.
Anyway I think both ideas - executive pm elected by PM (parliamentary systems) and 14 counties will fail like it did in 2010!
Its going to require persuasion with details. Most people wanted to cling to the central government and the old administrative system. Counties could still remain intact as the first tier of devolution.
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Kenyans must find what works for them regardless of what other systems have.
Kenya is devolved not federal. We copied our "devolution" from the UK which has only 3 devolved units plus a big central English country. Unlike the US or German federalism which is about the economy, the UK is about political accomodation of autonomous tribes. The English majority, the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish.
Kenya's devolution is first about tribalism - due to domination by Kalenjin and GEMA - so in this sense it's better to just shift the Kuria to Kisii, etc.
The regionalism is about economics and should be carefully crafted along these lines. Not the supraethnic "Ukambani" or "Coast" which we scrapped recently. SA has a 3-tier system and parliamentary. How has it worked out? I think it's too early to tell? Also SA and the countries with national-state-municipal layers have much bigger economies than ours.
Personally I support parliamentary with the present counties. But the new system is only 5years old. Give it 20years otherwise on what basis is the debate now?
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I agree yet experiments are costly in time and resources. The 2010 experiment needs time to yield results before we declare it a failure or a success. 5 years is just too short to test a governance system.
Kenyans must find what works for them regardless of what other systems have.
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When it come constitutions, everything is an experiment even when it has worked/failed in the neighboring country. There is therefore no way around experimenting unless you do not want to be better for fear of change.
I agree yet experiments are costly in time and resources. The 2010 experiment needs time to yield results before we declare it a failure or a success. 5 years is just too short to test a governance system.
Kenyans must find what works for them regardless of what other systems have.
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I just suggest 20 years for a governance system. It's premature to try 3rd tier when 2-tier outcome is unknown.
When it come constitutions, everything is an experiment even when it has worked/failed in the neighboring country. There is therefore no way around experimenting unless you do not want to be better for fear of change.
I agree yet experiments are costly in time and resources. The 2010 experiment needs time to yield results before we declare it a failure or a success. 5 years is just too short to test a governance system.
Kenyans must find what works for them regardless of what other systems have.
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Raila's proposal is nothing but a way to create a more bloated system where big tribes will have more say and the largest share of resources. small tribes like mine prefer smaller units like counties where we can manage our own resources. So far devolution is really working except that corruption is still hampering progress; but this is also happening at the national government. What parliament needs to do is establish strong anti corruption network targeting the use of resources in counties. Instead of bigger governance blocks we need to send more power and money to the wards like Ruto is proposing. I may disagree with some of Ruto politics but I am with him on this. We can however have a parliamentary system of government.
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Exactly.
Raila's proposal is nothing but a way to create a more bloated system where big tribes will have more say and the largest share of resources. small tribes like mine prefer smaller units like counties where we can manage our own resources. So far devolution is really working except that corruption is still hampering progress; but this is also happening at the national government. What parliament needs to do is establish strong anti corruption network targeting the use of resources in counties. Instead of bigger governance blocks we need to send more power and money to the wards like Ruto is proposing. I may disagree with some of Ruto politics but I am with him on this. We can however have a parliamentary system of government.
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Its three levels, that means the third level of government will still be controlled by the smaller tribes and enjoy economies of scale at the same time. We should have kept the provinces and maybe split Rift Valley and a few more to get to 14 jimbos.
Exactly.
Raila's proposal is nothing but a way to create a more bloated system where big tribes will have more say and the largest share of resources. small tribes like mine prefer smaller units like counties where we can manage our own resources. So far devolution is really working except that corruption is still hampering progress; but this is also happening at the national government. What parliament needs to do is establish strong anti corruption network targeting the use of resources in counties. Instead of bigger governance blocks we need to send more power and money to the wards like Ruto is proposing. I may disagree with some of Ruto politics but I am with him on this. We can however have a parliamentary system of government.
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I trust you don't all believe Raila is genuine in his push for "inclusion" and regional government. This is just a ploy to upstage Ruto's 2022 plans. The small tribes will all line up in Raila's corner as we can already see with Kalonzo. While also regionalism appeals to subpar kingpins Madvds, Weta, Joho, etc. Ruto is being seen as selfish wanting to keep all the power to himself. In case of any negotiations Raila will "compromise" and drop the regions, leaving PM as the red line.
This is just 2022, not reforms or inclusion. Ruto is damned if he does, damned if he does not.
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It’s time to restructure the presidency, it’s the cause of our problems
By RAILA ODINGA
On August 27, 2010, President Mwai Kibaki and I led the nation in promulgating the new Constitution. This, our third post-independence constitution and the fifth in total (including the Lyttleton (1954) and Lennox-Boyd 1957-8 constitutions), was 20 years in the making, one of the longest constitution making processes in history.
In 2002, we had pledged as the National Rainbow Coalition to restart the aborted constitution and enact a new one within 100 days. We failed. That failure contributed to the 2007-8 post-election crisis that brought the country to the brink of civil war and State failure. It took flirting with disaster for us to come to our senses and give ourselves a new constitution.
BOMAS DRAFT
But why did we need a new constitution in the first place, and why is it necessary to amend it now? I have expounded on this subject at length in my book, The Quest for Nationhood: A Roadmap to Our Future, published in June last year. Here I will focus only on two proposals that are the subject of political debate today, namely, restructuring the national executive or presidency and the proposal for a third (regional) tier of devolved government, both of these along the lines of the Bomas Draft Constitution.
That said, a brief historical context is helpful. For three decades, we were governed by an authoritarian constitution that was imposed on the country by Kanu using its overwhelming victory (84 out of 124 seats) in the independence elections. This constitution abrogated the political bargain that our founding fathers struck in Lancaster House, in which they agreed that Kenya would be a federal, parliamentary democracy. The independence, Lancaster House constitution only lasted 18 months from attainment of self-rule on June 1 1963 to the first Jamhuri Day on December 12, 1964.
In the years that followed, all the structures that had been put in place in the independence constitution to entrench freedom, democracy, rule of law and good governance were discarded. Within a decade, we were a single party dictatorship, with a presidency more powerful than colonial governors.
HANDSHAKE
The regional governments which would have provided political counterweight to the centre were dismantled and even local authorities, which enjoyed considerable autonomy during the colonial era, were progressively brought under the control of the central government.
In the Memorandum of Understanding titled Building Bridges to a New Kenyan Nation that President Uhuru Kenyatta and I signed on March 9, that Kenyans have given the name “Handshake” we identified nine issues. One of these is divisive elections. We have held six general elections since the re-adoption of multiparty politics in 1991, which is one more than the single party era (1969-1991) general elections. Of these elections, only one presidential election, the 2002 one, was unanimously upheld as free and fair.
We hoped that a constitutional dispensation would propel our democracy forward and put the era of election crises and violence behind us. It has not. In effect, we have been a multiparty state longer than we were under single party rule, but we seem no closer to a democratic transition than when we began.
PARLIAMENTARY
Not all elections in Kenya are divisive. This moniker speaks to only one — the presidential election. Throughout the constitution making debate, it was recognized that the centralization of power in the presidency was one of the things we needed to change — we characterized it as the problem of the “imperial presidency.” The only question was what to change it to.
The obvious alternative is a parliamentary system in which the functions of head of state and head of government are separate, with the former bestowed on a president, typically elected indirectly, and the latter exercised by a prime minister who is the leader of the majority party or coalition in parliament.
Political scientists who have studied the merits of the two systems conclude that parliamentary systems are more stable, and better suited for culturally diverse societies. Indeed, it is often observed that the US is the only pure presidential system that has stood the test of time. Many Kenyans were reluctant to give up directly electing their president, a power they had only just regained. We compromised on a dual executive system, similar to France, where executive authority is shared between an elected president and a prime minister and cabinet appointed from the majority party or coalition in parliament.
HYBRID SYSTEM
We also agreed on a devolved system of government with four tiers, namely, the national, regional, district and location. I have elaborated on the case for revisiting these provisions in my book. In any case, we all agreed that the Bomas constitution conference left some pending business around the issues of Devolution and the Executive. As we campaigned for the draft constitution which we later promulgated in 2010, there was agreement that there was a small percentage of the document especially on devolution and executive that would have to be revisited.
On the question of the presidency, I wrote: “The Bomas Draft Constitution had proposed a hybrid system, with executive power shared between a president and a prime minister. The ultimate draft produced by the Committee of Experts had retained this. It was unexpected because, in the entire history of the Constitution-making process, this system had not been a strong contender. The proposal for the more unusual hybrid system had been largely informed by the recognition that, while the pure parliamentary system was more suitable, we had to take into account the political reality of an existing presidency.”
In fact, the presidential system as currently exercised in Kenya, is still a strong tool for exclusion. There is simply no way small tribes like the El Molo, the Turkana, the Digo, among others can ever produce a president under the current system.
180 MILLION
On devolution I wrote: “Devolution is now a reality and Kenyans have embraced it enthusiastically. But I believe that the 15 units proposed by the Bomas Draft would have made for stronger devolution on both political and economic grounds. The 15 regions proposed in the Bomas draft were in line with devolved political systems around the world. South Africa has nine provinces, Mozambique has 10 regions, Canada has 13 provinces and Germany has 16 states. Nigeria has 180 million people and land size several times the size of Kenya and has only 36 states. Most other countries are in this range.
I believe we have now reached a point where we can usefully revisit and re-examine the devolution issue. In every part of the country, we have seen county governments coming together to form regional blocs. These are an indication that the leaders have begun to feel the limitations of being divided up into 47 counties, particularly in the area of economic development initiatives.”
ABYSS
It is self-evident that these realities are not the many things that detractors and naysayers are suggesting. They are principled and considered positions that are faithful to the spirit of our Constitution. I am confident that the proposals we will put forward in the coming days will allay some of the concerns.
In conclusion, I request Kenyans to take a moment today to reflect on our journey as a country so far. Of what value is a powerful office if its pursuit must cost lives and tear the country apart every five years? The Bible tells us, in the book of Mathew 5.19 that “if your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of the body than for your whole body to be thrown in hell.” I believe it is time to gather the courage and gouge this problematic institution from our system, lest it lead us into the abys
I trust you don't all believe Raila is genuine in his push for "inclusion" and regional government. This is just a ploy to upstage Ruto's 2022 plans. The small tribes will all line up in Raila's corner as we can already see with Kalonzo. While also regionalism appeals to subpar kingpins Madvds, Weta, Joho, etc. Ruto is being seen as selfish wanting to keep all the power to himself. In case of any negotiations Raila will "compromise" and drop the regions, leaving PM as the red line.
This is just 2022, not reforms or inclusion. Ruto is damned if he does, damned if he does not.
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Jesus H. Christ on a bicycle! no speech has not been drafted nor words spoken to justify political expediency. The lengths people will go to to hoodwink gullible Kenyans.
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And Kichwa I'm not defending Ruto from the chopping block; I don't agree with pedestrian reforms. I doubt Raila does too - no changes will actually occur, just Ruto will loose his coalition by the time the clamor is over. That's the true reason for his panic: amechorewa.
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You do not know what will happen. You just say stuff because you think its smart to say them. How do you know change will never occur when change is the only thing that you can always bet on. Stop being a smart ass.
And Kichwa I'm not defending Ruto from the chopping block; I don't agree with pedestrian reforms. I doubt Raila does too - no changes will actually occur, just Ruto will loose his coalition by the time the clamor is over. That's the true reason for his panic: amechorewa.
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He is excusing the thieving bastards like Jomo, Moi and Kibaki. Blaming the constitution. Baba must be smoking some really expensive stuff. :D. Handshake is not a joke.
You can have the best constitution on paper and nothing will change. The 2010 constitution and its implementation should make this obvious. It has explicit provisions forbidding tribalism, corruption etc but nothing has changed - actually it's gotten worse.
I thought they were going to use the handshake to deal with some of the more dangerous problems like at least tribalism. Corruption will require divine intervention and it does not really threaten total collapse like tribalism. But it looks like it's back to jockeying for positions and opportunities to feast.
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Exactly bitmask. Raila's and Kichwa's principles have gone to the dogs.
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Dead on Arrival.
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That's not true. You need good will and the laws to work together. Sometimes closing loopholes in law can cause compliance. Raila cannot be made to be the one to correct all the ills of Kenya. When Kenyans want change they will do so but it cannot be Raila's job. Why is Ouru and Ruto getting the pass and Raila is the one who must rain them in. My advise to Raila is to stop carrying the burdern of good governance, and stopping corruption like corruption around his neck. Let Kenyans deal with it when they are ready.
He is excusing the thieving bastards like Jomo, Moi and Kibaki. Blaming the constitution. Baba must be smoking some really expensive stuff. :D. Handshake is not a joke.
You can have the best constitution on paper and nothing will change. The 2010 constitution and its implementation should make this obvious. It has explicit provisions forbidding tribalism, corruption etc but nothing has changed - actually it's gotten worse.
I thought they were going to use the handshake to deal with some of the more dangerous problems like at least tribalism. Corruption will require divine intervention and it does not really threaten total collapse like tribalism. But it looks like it's back to jockeying for positions and opportunities to feast.
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That's not true. You need good will and the laws to work together. Sometimes closing loopholes in law can cause compliance. Raila cannot be made to be the one to correct all the ills of Kenya. When Kenyans want change they will do so but it cannot be Raila's job. Why is Ouru and Ruto getting the pass and Raila is the one who must rain them in. My advise to Raila is to stop carrying the burdern of good governance, and stopping corruption like corruption around his neck. Let Kenyans deal with it when they are ready.
He is excusing the thieving bastards like Jomo, Moi and Kibaki. Blaming the constitution. Baba must be smoking some really expensive stuff. :D . Handshake is not a joke.
You can have the best constitution on paper and nothing will change. The 2010 constitution and its implementation should make this obvious. It has explicit provisions forbidding tribalism, corruption etc but nothing has changed - actually it's gotten worse.
I thought they were going to use the handshake to deal with some of the more dangerous problems like at least tribalism. Corruption will require divine intervention and it does not really threaten total collapse like tribalism. But it looks like it's back to jockeying for positions and opportunities to feast.
I agree that Raila cannot and should not shoulder Kenya's problems. It's not a one man kind of problem. The mess we are talking about is woven into the fabric of Kenya.
Still, I got the impression that he and Kenyatta would go all out and eliminate or minimize the brinkmanship that leaves the country teetering on the edge disaster every five years. That's what they said. But it already looks like the beginning of another cycle of the same, perhaps with a few actors changing sides.
I thought Ouruto's complicity was so obvious it did not warrant discussion. I am not giving them a pass.
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It appears Uhuru may have to abandoned Raila and his council of elders. Jubilee rank & file just don't trust Raila & don't see the need of hand-shake. It question of when to pull the plug. It appears Ruto want it done as soon as possible aware that conceding an inch to Raila could be dangerous. Meanwhile Raila is so desperate he has had to recant his 2022 bid :).
If Uhuru throw Raila under the bus....NASA groupies will be waiting to get even with him. Well - he can form alliance with Gideon Moi - quite some bedfellows.
I doubt the hand-shake will last another 3 months of relentless onslaught by Ruto.
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/Premature-jostling-could-make-Uhuru-Kenyatta-early-lame-duck-/1949942-4549568-item-1-918k3b/index.html
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Pundit - Uhuru and GEMA are served well by the handshake - especially the squabbles in non-GEMA - and are not under any pressure to pull the plug. Usually, like in the Kibaki sunset days, Kenyans would be fed up with the thought of GEMA continued hegemony. Same thing as Moi last days - noone wanted to hear about Kalenjin. Today you have Atwoli asking for a soft landing for Uhuru. This is the handshake effect where everyone sucks up to GEMA and claim to front Uhuru Big 4 Agenda.
This is a very smart play for Uhuru. Tighten your seatbelt.
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You got this one right. Ouru needs the handshake than he needs the Ruto sponsored noise makers from Mt. Kenya. Most of those noisemakers are first time MP’s that Ruto forced in and can be replaced or told to tone down. Both Ouru and Raila must have thought long and hard about this handshake because each knew what they had. Ouru is not leaving Ruto for nothing. His conscience seems to be clear and Ruto knows it. Also the important people that Ouru listen to must have been on board before the hand shake. I do not see Ouru or Raila walking away soon after making such a major political move. Ruto is spending a lot of resources to kill the handshake and that shows you that it’s significant. I think Ruto panicked and that’s not good in politics. He is scaring a lot of people with his moves and acting as if the presidency belongs to him. Imagine if he were to be president. His goons will scare anybody who disagrees with him. We will be back to Nyayo days. Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
Pundit - Uhuru and GEMA are served well by the handshake - especially the squabbles in non-GEMA - and are not under any pressure to pull the plug. Usually, like in the Kibaki sunset days, Kenyans would be fed up with the thought of GEMA continued hegemony. Same thing as Moi last days - noone wanted to hear about Kalenjin. Today you have Atwoli asking for a soft landing for Uhuru. This is the handshake effect where everyone sucks up to GEMA and claim to front Uhuru Big 4 Agenda.
This is a very smart play for Uhuru. Tighten your seatbelt.
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Pundit imagines Ruto is in control of GEMA; he's not. Ruto knows this and is careful not to attack Uhuru. So the guns are trained on Raila and "a powerful clique of Kibaki-era politicians" which is the new code for GEMA.
In the meantime, Mr Ruto might be advised that those vows of undying loyalty from central Kenya politicians might not be worth the spittle they came out with.
You got this one right. Ouru needs the handshake than he needs the Ruto sponsored noise makers from Mt. Kenya. Most of those noisemakers are first time MP’s that Ruto forced in and can be replaced or told to tone down. Both Ouru and Raila must have thought long and hard about this handshake because each knew what they had. Ouru is not leaving Ruto for nothing. His conscience seems to be clear and Ruto knows it. Also the important people that Ouru listen to must have been on board before the hand shake. I do not see Ouru or Raila walking away soon after making such a major political move. Ruto is spending a lot of resources to kill the handshake and that shows you that it’s significant. I think Ruto panicked and that’s not good in politics. He is scaring a lot of people with his moves and acting as if the presidency belongs to him. Imagine if he were to be president. His goons will scare anybody who disagrees with him. We will be back to Nyayo days. Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
Pundit - Uhuru and GEMA are served well by the handshake - especially the squabbles in non-GEMA - and are not under any pressure to pull the plug. Usually, like in the Kibaki sunset days, Kenyans would be fed up with the thought of GEMA continued hegemony. Same thing as Moi last days - noone wanted to hear about Kalenjin. Today you have Atwoli asking for a soft landing for Uhuru. This is the handshake effect where everyone sucks up to GEMA and claim to front Uhuru Big 4 Agenda.
This is a very smart play for Uhuru. Tighten your seatbelt.
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You like projecting. I think Uhuru control GEMA - the powerful clique is a joke. However I just don't see how Uhuru can say walk out of his pledge with Ruto without serious consequences. And I don't infact why he should even attempt to walk away. I don't think anybody can trust Raila.
Pundit imagines Ruto is in control of GEMA; he's not. Ruto knows this and is careful not to attack Uhuru. So the guns are trained on Raila and "a powerful clique of Kibaki-era politicians" which is the new code for GEMA.
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Ruto needs to take time and study the Trojan horse. Instead of kneejerk ups and downs he's upto now. Ask yourself: did Raila orchestrate the handshake alone? What makes you think he even originated the idea? When was it hatched - now or years ago?
The 48 Laws of Power
Law 12: Use Selective Honesty and Generosity to Disarm Your Victim
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OQgYQ9CsO80/Tc17XN8EJNI/AAAAAAAABio/T14bHftZKB0/image7.png?imgmax=800)
One sincere and honest move will cover over dozens of dishonest ones. Open-hearted gestures of honesty and generosity bring down the guard of even the most suspicious people. Once your selective honesty opens a hole in their armor, you can deceive and manipulate them at will. A timely gift—a Trojan horse—will serve the same purpose.
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Yes that make sense. Uhuru basically got himself a leverage from white-flag waving Raila. But I think he knows when to play jokes (Raila) and when to act serious.
Pundit - Uhuru and GEMA are served well by the handshake - especially the squabbles in non-GEMA - and are not under any pressure to pull the plug. Usually, like in the Kibaki sunset days, Kenyans would be fed up with the thought of GEMA continued hegemony. Same thing as Moi last days - noone wanted to hear about Kalenjin. Today you have Atwoli asking for a soft landing for Uhuru. This is the handshake effect where everyone sucks up to GEMA and claim to front Uhuru Big 4 Agenda.
This is a very smart play for Uhuru. Tighten your seatbelt.
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It appears Uhuru may have to abandoned Raila and his council of elders. Jubilee rank & file just don't trust Raila & don't see the need of hand-shake. It question of when to pull the plug. It appears Ruto want it done as soon as possible aware that conceding an inch to Raila could be dangerous. Meanwhile Raila is so desperate he has had to recant his 2022 bid :).
If Uhuru throw Raila under the bus....NASA groupies will be waiting to get even with him. Well - he can form alliance with Gideon Moi - quite some bedfellows.
I doubt the hand-shake will last another 3 months of relentless onslaught by Ruto.
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/blogs/Premature-jostling-could-make-Uhuru-Kenyatta-early-lame-duck-/1949942-4549568-item-1-918k3b/index.html
If uhuru tries to abandon ruto or shaft him, there'll be a rebellion in GEMA. The joke doing rounds in mt.kenya is that the dynasties might have the money but hustlers have the votes. It's not like gema has made out like bandits in uhuru administration to the point of not revolting. This will be like when uhuru and kibaki tried to front mudavadi , gema rebelled, uhuru was told even him he has one vote.
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I have never bought into The Prince and all those theories. That is just vodoo. What works every-time is to study political personal interests and the options available for them to actualize them.
Ruto needs to take time and study the Trojan horse. Instead of kneejerk ups and downs he's upto now. Ask yourself: did Raila orchestrate the handshake alone? What makes you think he even originated the idea? When was it hatched - now or years ago?
The 48 Laws of Power
Law 12: Use Selective Honesty and Generosity to Disarm Your Victim
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_OQgYQ9CsO80/Tc17XN8EJNI/AAAAAAAABio/T14bHftZKB0/image7.png?imgmax=800)
One sincere and honest move will cover over dozens of dishonest ones. Open-hearted gestures of honesty and generosity bring down the guard of even the most suspicious people. Once your selective honesty opens a hole in their armor, you can deceive and manipulate them at will. A timely gift—a Trojan horse—will serve the same purpose.
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Yeah Kalenjin as a group are very single-minded when it comes to their interests - and there is not let up. I think you saw that in Mau. If Uhuru was to threaten the 2022 deal - he better be ready for a big war coming his way. Raila is a joke who cannot sustain a war of attrition.Ruto & RVs would definitely bring war from all fronts..land, sea and air! every day till cows come home.
Whoever want to stop Ruto in 2022 has big impossible job ahead of him.
Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
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I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
If things were kosher in Uhurutopia there would be no handshake and Murkomen et al would not be barking so fiercely.
You like projecting. I think Uhuru control GEMA - the powerful clique is a joke. However I just don't see how Uhuru can say walk out of his pledge with Ruto without serious consequences. And I don't infact why he should even attempt to walk away. I don't think anybody can trust Raila.
Pundit imagines Ruto is in control of GEMA; he's not. Ruto knows this and is careful not to attack Uhuru. So the guns are trained on Raila and "a powerful clique of Kibaki-era politicians" which is the new code for GEMA.
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It very rich to imagine Uhuru can act alone without Ruto. That would mean Uhuru got a political brain transplant. I don't think Ruto would object to Putin-Medved - as long as Uhuru delivers GEMA - then it doesn't matter.
I think all these is part of choreographed move by UhuRuto to destroy Raila.This is just like Mau - where GEMA were edging Raila to evict Kalenjin and when d-day come- they abandoned Raila. The ultimate aim is to neuter Raila and destroy NASA.Now that Raila has been so neutured and NASA is dead - I think Ruto just want to pull the plug in few months - hence all these "pressure" on Uhuru to go slow.
Raila can keep this going by allowing Uhuru to enter all his orifices without any resistance :) and with little pay. Ruto is basically not going to give an INCH Raila....so Raila had better prepare to fight for every inch.
Uhuru immediate gain is that economy is back on the sail and he is governing bila wasi wasi of opposition. Ruto gain is destruction of Raila prospect in 2022.
I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
If things were kosher in Uhurutopia there would be no handshake and Murkomen et al would not be barking so fiercely.
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Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
Yeah Kalenjin as a group are very single-minded when it comes to their interests - and there is not let up. I think you saw that in Mau. If Uhuru was to threaten the 2022 deal - he better be ready for a big war coming his way. Raila is a joke who cannot sustain a war of attrition.Ruto & RVs would definitely bring war from all fronts..land, sea and air! every day till cows come home.
Whoever want to stop Ruto in 2022 has big impossible job ahead of him.
Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
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I think nobody want Raila to be allowed inside Jubilee - because Ruto is very aware of what he did to Uhuru in 2002. Raila dream is to mingle and mix things up - and then try to splinter Jubilee like he did with KANU. Therefore the idea is to kick him out early. Or to make sure he never gets comfortable.
Raila is basically running from NASA because he has to hand over to Kalonzo/MaDvd and trying to present Uhuru with a deal that will see him extending his rule - as long as Raila is the PM or something like that. Uhuru might start entertaining the idea if it's allowed to take root and work...so Ruto has to frustrate and make it impossible for Raila to settle.
Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
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Seriously I read the mademoni debacle as an act. "Fools" are acceptable to many. Foxes are polarizing. So poor Uhuru becomes PORK while smart Ruto becomes the deputy.
Also, are you calling the Trojan inventor Raila stupid?
It very rich to imagine Uhuru can act alone without Ruto. That would mean Uhuru got a political brain transplant. I don't think Ruto would object to Putin-Medved - as long as Uhuru delivers GEMA - then it doesn't matter.
I think all these is part of choreographed move by UhuRuto to destroy Raila.This is just like Mau - where GEMA were edging Raila to evict Kalenjin and when d-day come- they abandoned Raila. The ultimate aim is to neuter Raila and destroy NASA.Now that Raila has been so neutured and NASA is dead - I think Ruto just want to pull the plug in few months - hence all these "pressure" on Uhuru to go slow.
Raila can keep this going by allowing Uhuru to enter all his orifices without any resistance :) and with little pay. Ruto is basically not going to give an INCH Raila....so Raila had better prepare to fight for every inch.
Uhuru immediate gain is that economy is back on the sail and he is governing bila wasi wasi of opposition. Ruto gain is destruction of Raila prospect in 2022.
I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
If things were kosher in Uhurutopia there would be no handshake and Murkomen et al would not be barking so fiercely.
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Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
I agree with this. If uhuru tries to abandon ruto or shaft him, there'll be a rebellion in GEMA. The joke doing rounds in mt.kenya is that the dynasties might have the money but hustlers have the votes. It's not like gema has made out like bandits in uhuru administration to the point of not revolting. This will be like when uhuru and kibaki tried to front mudavadi , gema rebelled, uhuru was told even him he has one vote.
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Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
I agree with this. If uhuru tries to abandon ruto or shaft him, there'll be a rebellion in GEMA. The joke doing rounds in mt.kenya is that the dynasties might have the money but hustlers have the votes. It's not like gema has made out like bandits in uhuru administration to the point of not revolting. This will be like when uhuru and kibaki tried to front mudavadi , gema rebelled, uhuru was told even him he has one vote.
I see you're attempting some non-economy thinking. Albeit by copy-pasting texts.
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I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
But no. That is why the hustler is running around gatecrashing into compounds like a decapitated chicken. :D
Seriously though. Of course. How can anyone not see this? And I could be wrong. Maybe there is something kamwana still needs from the hustler.
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Right again: Something must have happened prior to handshake before Ouru could even entertain the idea of a handshake and leaving Ruto out of the loop. As for Mt. Kenya Mp's who are making noise for Ruto, you have to realize that Kiboko yao is their rivals who want to unseat them. That is why you cannot ignore kikuyu old money. Their rivals can be funded and they will start campaigning hard for the handshake and to unseat the Ruto munions. Nobody likes an outside funding his people against them. All the Kenyan tribes have a history of rallying around their tribal kingpins in the end.
If Ruto wants to kill the handshake, he should flip Ouru but if he believes he can force Ouru to flip by creating a rebellion in Nyomba then that is a tall order and may annoy Ouru more. Kikuyus rallied around Ouru in defiance of Kibaki because Ouru is not only a kikuyu but a royalty. Ruto would be presumptuous to expect Kikuyus to abandone Ouru and rally around him. The best Ruto can get out of that conflict is a divided Mt. Kenya and that is all his rival needs to win.
I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
If things were kosher in Uhurutopia there would be no handshake and Murkomen et al would not be barking so fiercely.
You like projecting. I think Uhuru control GEMA - the powerful clique is a joke. However I just don't see how Uhuru can say walk out of his pledge with Ruto without serious consequences. And I don't infact why he should even attempt to walk away. I don't think anybody can trust Raila.
Pundit imagines Ruto is in control of GEMA; he's not. Ruto knows this and is careful not to attack Uhuru. So the guns are trained on Raila and "a powerful clique of Kibaki-era politicians" which is the new code for GEMA.
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PM and inclusion politics are not going away. They are already imbedded in the Kenyan political psyche/lexicon. Because of historical political abuse/marginalization, etc. Kenyans do not want to be in the opposition or out of government anymore because its a curse and there is no way to climb out because of corruption and rigged elections. The only way to create political stability is therefore inclusion. This is a backlash of the kikuyu/kalenjin-ouruto, "tyranny of numbers" political scam . The only way Ouru will achieve his goals and complete his term in peace is through inclusion. If Ruto think he can again form a winner take all government that will only have two tribes and exclude a huge chunk of this country then he is in for the fight of his life which he may not survive.
Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
Yeah Kalenjin as a group are very single-minded when it comes to their interests - and there is not let up. I think you saw that in Mau. If Uhuru was to threaten the 2022 deal - he better be ready for a big war coming his way. Raila is a joke who cannot sustain a war of attrition.Ruto & RVs would definitely bring war from all fronts..land, sea and air! every day till cows come home.
Whoever want to stop Ruto in 2022 has big impossible job ahead of him.
Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
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I think Uhuru is entertaining the idea of walking out on Ruto. At least Ruto must have refused the Putin-Medvedev arrangement so Uhuru has resorted to this. How else would the handshake happen? Ruto is actually attacking Uhuru as "powerful clique".
But no. That is why the hustler is running around gatecrashing into compounds like a decapitated chicken. :D
Seriously though. Of course. How can anyone not see this? And I could be wrong. Maybe there is something kamwana still needs from the hustler.
Uhuru has two stakes which make him need both Raila and Ruto:
Legacy - this he gets by handshake grand coalition. Almost guaranteed... Ruto is threatening to scuttle this if 2022 is unraveled.
Continuity - he wants to continue calling the shots after 2022. It's greedy, illegal, undemocratic... this he won't get.
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I think "inclusion" in the form of PM and regional government will fail due to fierce Ruto resistance and popular lethargy. Kenyans know enough about ugali and it's relation to politics. Zero. Saa za kazi. However the mud fights for it will leave Ruto in dire straits. If the stars are lined up for you it's in your interest to maintain the peace. Because you can't control the outcome of war.
PM and inclusion politics are not going away. They are already imbedded in the Kenyan political psyche/lexicon. Because of historical political abuse/marginalization, etc. Kenyans do not want to be in the opposition or out of government anymore because its a curse and there is no way to climb out because of corruption and rigged elections. The only way to create political stability is therefore inclusion. This is a backlash of the kikuyu/kalenjin-ouruto, "tyranny of numbers" political scam . The only way Ouru will achieve his goals and complete his term in peace is through inclusion. If Ruto think he can again form a winner take all government that will only have two tribes and exclude a huge chunk of this country then he is in for the fight of his life which he may not survive.
Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
Yeah Kalenjin as a group are very single-minded when it comes to their interests - and there is not let up. I think you saw that in Mau. If Uhuru was to threaten the 2022 deal - he better be ready for a big war coming his way. Raila is a joke who cannot sustain a war of attrition.Ruto & RVs would definitely bring war from all fronts..land, sea and air! every day till cows come home.
Whoever want to stop Ruto in 2022 has big impossible job ahead of him.
Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
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It interesting to note that Raila and his ODM (what is left of it) are now referring to handshake agreement as MOU :) with Uhuru. I tell you, Raila get an inch (hand-shake) and he wants a mile (MOU).
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I believe a document was also signed before the handshake.
It interesting to note that Raila and his ODM (what is left of it) are now referring to handshake agreement as MOU :) with Uhuru. I tell you, Raila get an inch (hand-shake) and he wants a mile (MOU).
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That maybe so but we will keep on coming back to PM. Its better to try the parliamentary system now because we know the presidential system does not work. If Ruto tries to bulldoze his way to the presidency as it is by dividing this country along tribal lines then we will come back to PM again and again because the country will be even more divided.
Ruto cannot get 100% GEMA if Ouru is not on board. Man Gidi handled himself very well the other day under withering attack and got a lot of sympathy. You saw a man who is bracing himself for the long haul while Ruto seems to be looking for an quick knock out of his opponents like he is used to doing in Kalenjin politic. God, I hope he does not believe he has the whole Mt. Kenya wrapped up under his fingers just because some tumbocrats told him so.
Ruto should go easy on Gidi, because while Gidi may not look presidential material but he can be very lethal if Ruto makes him a mortal enemy. This is the first time Ruto will be at the head of a ticket, and running a national political party. He has seen nothing yet. There will be betrayals, turncoats, disagreements, splits, back bitting, divisions, regional interests, money seeking missiles, conmen,-you name it. Let's see how he handles them with his short temper and dictatorial tendancies.
I think "inclusion" in the form of PM and regional government will fail due to fierce Ruto resistance and popular lethargy. Kenyans know enough about ugali and it's relation to politics. Zero. Saa za kazi. However the mud fights for it will leave Ruto in dire straits. If the stars are lined up for you it's in your interest to maintain the peace. Because you can't control the outcome of war.
PM and inclusion politics are not going away. They are already imbedded in the Kenyan political psyche/lexicon. Because of historical political abuse/marginalization, etc. Kenyans do not want to be in the opposition or out of government anymore because its a curse and there is no way to climb out because of corruption and rigged elections. The only way to create political stability is therefore inclusion. This is a backlash of the kikuyu/kalenjin-ouruto, "tyranny of numbers" political scam . The only way Ouru will achieve his goals and complete his term in peace is through inclusion. If Ruto think he can again form a winner take all government that will only have two tribes and exclude a huge chunk of this country then he is in for the fight of his life which he may not survive.
Ruto should stick to the hustler tune, war would not serve him well at this point. Trouble is that he's not the kingmaker this round, he's in the glass house. Groom a GEMA upstart maybe... while singing Uhuru Big 4 Agenda (Nyayo). You're right this is 1976-77 redux.
Personally I am against any PM or such "inclusion". Whether Ruto wins or not the losers and retirees should go home. Moi and Kibaki - and Mbekis and Obasanjos - are doing fine. There's a big club of retirees to join.
Yeah Kalenjin as a group are very single-minded when it comes to their interests - and there is not let up. I think you saw that in Mau. If Uhuru was to threaten the 2022 deal - he better be ready for a big war coming his way. Raila is a joke who cannot sustain a war of attrition.Ruto & RVs would definitely bring war from all fronts..land, sea and air! every day till cows come home.
Whoever want to stop Ruto in 2022 has big impossible job ahead of him.
Maybe it’s a Kalenjin thing.
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In a Nairobi political minute, Raila now drives the agenda while Ruto is the resistor. :)
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Predictions of Raila Kwisha are made every political season just to be revised. Ruto has no ideas to offer the country. He just want to be president so that he can fulfill he can take his rugs to riches to another level. If he becomes president, he and his cronies will loot this country back to stone age and eliminate any semblance of opposition. Ruto liked this country the way it was during Moi and that is why he has always opposed any that has been proffered since section 2A was repealed. He is a natural dictator.
In a Nairobi political minute, Raila now drives the agenda while Ruto is the resistor. :)
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Predictions of Raila Kwisha are made every political season just to be revised. Ruto has no ideas to offer the country. He just want to be president so that he can fulfill he can take his rugs to riches to another level. If he becomes president, he and his cronies will loot this country back to stone age and eliminate any semblance of opposition. Ruto liked this country the way it was during Moi and that is why he has always opposed any that has been proffered since section 2A was repealed. He is a natural dictator.
In a Nairobi political minute, Raila now drives the agenda while Ruto is the resistor. :)
Those predictions are not tenable currently. So it is now just a joke kamwana is playing on Raila. Kamwana will drop fresh steaming turds on the hustler's head and we will be told it's a joke :biglol:
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The reason why Ruto is panicking is because he knows that his relationship with Kamwana will not be the same again. This deal was not just between Kamwana and Raila alone, the donors were heavily involved and even the UK PM endorsed it. This is not something Kamwana can just walk out- of whenever he feels like it. I am sure he has explained everything to Ruto and told him that he has to hustle to get the presidency on his own but it will not be handed in a silver platter like was promised earlier when they went to bed together.
Predictions of Raila Kwisha are made every political season just to be revised. Ruto has no ideas to offer the country. He just want to be president so that he can fulfill he can take his rugs to riches to another level. If he becomes president, he and his cronies will loot this country back to stone age and eliminate any semblance of opposition. Ruto liked this country the way it was during Moi and that is why he has always opposed any that has been proffered since section 2A was repealed. He is a natural dictator.
In a Nairobi political minute, Raila now drives the agenda while Ruto is the resistor. :)
Those predictions are not tenable currently. So it is now just a joke kamwana is playing on Raila. Kamwana will drop fresh steaming turds on the hustler's head and we will be told it's a joke :biglol:
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October 2017...
(https://i.onthe.io/0fgjhs1870em0eo03o.r900.63efb782.jpg)
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October 2017...
(https://i.onthe.io/0fgjhs1870em0eo03o.r900.63efb782.jpg)
Hehehe...baba will be doing it until he drops. At this point, nothing will tickle the hustler like kamwana kicking the bucket.
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October 2017...
(https://i.onthe.io/0fgjhs1870em0eo03o.r900.63efb782.jpg)
Hehehe...baba will be doing it until he drops. At this point, nothing will tickle the hustler like kamwana kicking the bucket.
Lol. Never thought of that. Do not give the hustler ideas. That would definitely be a game changer. Even RAO would have to go back to the drawing boards.
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Hehehe...baba will be doing it until he drops. At this point, nothing will tickle the hustler like kamwana kicking the bucket.
Lol. Never thought of that. Do not give the hustler ideas. That would definitely be a game changer. Even RAO would have to go back to the drawing boards.
I think the temptation is very real. The constitution allows the grifter to take over for the rest of the term. Which is far more than the 90 days Moi was allowed in the Kenyatta era. He would take over and try to turn back the clock on building bridges with the attendant instability that follows.
Among the urgent amendments to the constitution, this should be one that enjoys pride of place near the top.
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The hustler image is an indicator that Ruto is walking on eggshells. How do you insult Gideon Moi as a good for nothing screwball who is nobody without the Moi name, without implying it on Uhuru?
I have heard the likes of Kang'atas/Ichung'was talk of 'mtoto wa nyoka' in reference to Gideon, implying Kikuyus should not forget 'what Moi did to them'? Implying it is okay to forget the more recent 2007/08 and the 2022 threat but not forgive Moi???
The prospect of a Moi getting a million votes across Kenya is not a far fetched reality. With likes of Mutuas, Munyas, Mudavadis chipping away hundred of thousands of votes achieving 50 + 1 is a nightmare Ruto is alive to. How political heavy handedness in crushing his threats will be interesting to see how it pays off.
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Gideon Moi is a joke. Munyas is DOA in national politics and is looking forward to go back to being Meru governor. Mutua has to fight Kalonzo and stand in the ballot to get votes - he cannot sway many votes to someone. MaDVD just doesn't get politics - right now it would have been an opportunity to build his base but he is allowed Raila to stay alive in western - so he'll just remain a maragoli - who can't even convince his two senators..malala and khaniri to follow his directions.
The hustler image is an indicator that Ruto is walking on eggshells. How do you insult Gideon Moi as a good for nothing screwball who is nobody without the Moi name, without implying it on Uhuru?
I have heard the likes of Kang'atas/Ichung'was talk of 'mtoto wa nyoka' in reference to Gideon, implying Kikuyus should not forget 'what Moi did to them'? Implying it is okay to forget the more recent 2007/08 and the 2022 threat but not forgive Moi???
The prospect of a Moi getting a million votes across Kenya is not a far fetched reality. With likes of Mutuas, Munyas, Mudavadis chipping away hundred of thousands of votes achieving 50 + 1 is a nightmare Ruto is alive to. How political heavy handedness in crushing his threats will be interesting to see how it pays off.
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On political jokes.
Kenyatta was always a joke to the Kaggias and Koinanges. He was not allowed to even sit in the Mau Mau deliberations by the 'council'. He was even put on hit list by the men who were in control for the Ruring'u Mau Mau insult. Chotara was listed to take him out in Kapenguria for selling out .
Moi - Njonjos, Mungais never gave the Sacho peasantry joke a chance.
Kibaki was even referred to a General Kiguoya by likes of late cabbage Matiba!! Till the tosha thing changed things in few weeks.
Uhuru - joke of the century had given it to madimoni
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Now this is a joke.
On political jokes.
Kenyatta was always a joke to the Kaggias and Koinanges. He was not allowed to even sit in the Mau Mau deliberations by the 'council'. He was even put on hit list by the men who were in control for the Ruring'u Mau Mau insult. Chotara was listed to take him out in Kapenguria for selling out .
Moi - Njonjos, Mungais never gave the Sacho peasantry joke a chance.
Kibaki was even referred to a General Kiguoya by likes of late cabbage Matiba!! Till the tosha thing changed things in few weeks.
Uhuru - joke of the century had given it to madimoni
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In another country I would agree with you that Gideon is a joke but in Kenyan politics-one cannot dismiss Gideon simpley because he is Moi's son and he has a lot of money. Ruto should therefore be more tactful when dealing with Gidi. He even looked presidential in the way he handled himself in the face of unfair blistering attack by Ruto minions at the funeral. Gidi was seen as protecting his 93 year old Dad from political exploitation by an overbearing ruthless hustler.
Gideon Moi is a joke. Munyas is DOA in national politics and is looking forward to go back to being Meru governor. Mutua has to fight Kalonzo and stand in the ballot to get votes - he cannot sway many votes to someone. MaDVD just doesn't get politics - right now it would have been an opportunity to build his base but he is allowed Raila to stay alive in western - so he'll just remain a maragoli - who can't even convince his two senators..malala and khaniri to follow his directions.
The hustler image is an indicator that Ruto is walking on eggshells. How do you insult Gideon Moi as a good for nothing screwball who is nobody without the Moi name, without implying it on Uhuru?
I have heard the likes of Kang'atas/Ichung'was talk of 'mtoto wa nyoka' in reference to Gideon, implying Kikuyus should not forget 'what Moi did to them'? Implying it is okay to forget the more recent 2007/08 and the 2022 threat but not forgive Moi???
The prospect of a Moi getting a million votes across Kenya is not a far fetched reality. With likes of Mutuas, Munyas, Mudavadis chipping away hundred of thousands of votes achieving 50 + 1 is a nightmare Ruto is alive to. How political heavy handedness in crushing his threats will be interesting to see how it pays off.
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Gideon Moi is guy who struggle to win senate...
In another country I would agree with you that Gideon is a joke but in Kenyan politics-one cannot dismiss Gideon simpley because he is Moi's son and he has a lot of money. Ruto should therefore be more tactful when dealing with Gidi. He even looked presidential in the way he handled himself in the face of unfair blistering attack by Ruto minions at the funeral. Gidi was seen as protecting his 93 year old Dad from political exploitation by an overbearing ruthless hustler.
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But he won. Remember ouru? You used to be the pragmatist.
Gideon Moi is guy who struggle to win senate...
In another country I would agree with you that Gideon is a joke but in Kenyan politics-one cannot dismiss Gideon simpley because he is Moi's son and he has a lot of money. Ruto should therefore be more tactful when dealing with Gidi. He even looked presidential in the way he handled himself in the face of unfair blistering attack by Ruto minions at the funeral. Gidi was seen as protecting his 93 year old Dad from political exploitation by an overbearing ruthless hustler.
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Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Ruto is not immune to the Samson and Goliath phenomenon.
Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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I agree Ruto is in alot of trouble the way Sonko and other allies are being hounded like swara. Gideon can be a lethal proxy.
Ruto is not immune to the Samson and Goliath phenomenon.
Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Ruto will realize what Raila did already-Its easier to be a king maker than to be a king. Raila looked like a genius when he was making other people king but when it came time for him to ascend to the throne then the rain started coming down hard on him. Everybody agrees he won the 2007 and would have retired to Bondo in 2013 or 2017 but because of the blatant-in-your face, taking candy from a baby kind of rigging, he is still wondering in the wilderness. In those days when Raila was being shaved with broken glass and no water, Ruto laughed and called him names-"yule jamaa wa vitendawili". Ruto better hope his journey to the throne is much smoother than RAO's because WSR stepped on a lot of toes on his way up and he should not expect too much sympathy in case he runs into rough winds.
I agree Ruto is in alot of trouble the way Sonko and other allies are being hounded like swara. Gideon can be a lethal proxy.
Ruto is not immune to the Samson and Goliath phenomenon.
Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Ruto's head is spinning. He is buffled that talks of betrayal were happening long before 2017... when he was uttering "yule jamaa wa vitendawili." He gave the deport Miguna orders and now cannot countermand Kibicho. In a way he's exactly like Miguna. He can't even figure if the GEMA MPs are real or fake in their praise. The Ides of March are come...
How long did Uhuru plan the betrayal? Hicho ni kitendawili.
Uhuru and GEMA are up to no good. They are giving Raila the right to revenge on Ruto. Changing the constitution to extend Uhuru's term is unacceptable. That's how real dictatorships are made, not the imaginary Ruto dictatorship.
Ruto is the merit and democracy candidate. The dynasties are opaque in packing their man.
Ruto will realize what Raila did already-Its easier to be a king maker than to be a king. Raila looked like a genius when he was making other people king but when it came time for him to ascend to the throne then the rain started coming down hard on him. Everybody agrees he won the 2007 and would have retired to Bondo in 2013 or 2017 but because of the blatant-in-your face, taking candy from a baby kind of rigging, he is still wondering in the wilderness. In those days when Raila was being shaved with broken glass and no water, Ruto laughed and called him names-"yule jamaa wa vitendawili". Ruto better hope his journey to the throne is much smoother than RAO's because WSR stepped on a lot of toes on his way up and he should not expect too much sympathy in case he runs into rough winds.
I agree Ruto is in alot of trouble the way Sonko and other allies are being hounded like swara. Gideon can be a lethal proxy.
Ruto is not immune to the Samson and Goliath phenomenon.
Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Ruto rode on ouru's uthamaki and even paraded ouru's son to entice uthamaki with the continuation of the dynasty if only they let him pass in between. Now that the dynasties is working against him, he wants to cry victimhood and betrayal. Ruto has a tough fight on his hands especially the more distance opens between him and Ouru as this Sonko/Miguna saga suggests. Luo politics has definitely changed with the handshake and the fact that Raila's presidency is no longer necessary/important. The burden that the luos had carried when Raila was hunting for the presidency is now on the Kalenjin. Let us see how they handle it.
Ruto's head is spinning. He is buffled that talks of betrayal were happening long before 2017... when he was uttering "yule jamaa wa vitendawili." He gave the deport Miguna orders and now cannot countermand Kibicho. In a way he's exactly like Miguna. He can't even figure if the GEMA MPs are real or fake in their praise. The Ides of March are come...
How long did Uhuru plan the betrayal? Hicho ni kitendawili.
Uhuru and GEMA are up to no good. They are giving Raila the right to revenge on Ruto. Changing the constitution to extend Uhuru's term is unacceptable. That's how real dictatorships are made, not the imaginary Ruto dictatorship.
Ruto is the merit and democracy candidate. The dynasties are opaque in packing their man.
Ruto will realize what Raila did already-Its easier to be a king maker than to be a king. Raila looked like a genius when he was making other people king but when it came time for him to ascend to the throne then the rain started coming down hard on him. Everybody agrees he won the 2007 and would have retired to Bondo in 2013 or 2017 but because of the blatant-in-your face, taking candy from a baby kind of rigging, he is still wondering in the wilderness. In those days when Raila was being shaved with broken glass and no water, Ruto laughed and called him names-"yule jamaa wa vitendawili". Ruto better hope his journey to the throne is much smoother than RAO's because WSR stepped on a lot of toes on his way up and he should not expect too much sympathy in case he runs into rough winds.
I agree Ruto is in alot of trouble the way Sonko and other allies are being hounded like swara. Gideon can be a lethal proxy.
Ruto is not immune to the Samson and Goliath phenomenon.
Gideon is actually a leader already as Baringo Senator. All we are doubting is his capacity to take on Ruto given the vast difference in followership as an example. Uhuru could not take on Kibaki either and had to join the old man instead.
Gideon is a good dynasty proxy that could cause Ruto a big headache if the dynasties were to say pair him up with Madvd or a GEMA.
There were times when Ouru could not even win his father's Gatundu.
Gideon's lack of followership is buffling. Not even a single MCA backs the guy in his own home county. Save for Kamket the sole Kanu MP, everyone else supports Ruto. That's very disappointing for a man who fancies himself as presidential material.
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Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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Precisely.
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
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That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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What do we really have to loose?. Let us force them tell us if they support the concepts of liberty in our constitutions and explain how they will uphold the rule of law and the democratic values in our constitution and then let see them become dictators before we declare that it will not work.
This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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okay uhuru say no to raila nonsense..get the drift
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It's okay for you to do that if you wish. Their responses would not in any way affect my choice for the reasons I have explained. Such ideology or beliefs are not important to me.
What do we really have to loose?. Let us force them tell us if they support the concepts of liberty in our constitutions and explain how they will uphold the rule of law and the democratic values in our constitution and then let see them become dictators before we declare that it will not work.
This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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If we are trying to make Kenya a modern Democratic state then I cannot see why we should disagree as to whether presidential candidates should be required to articulate not only their economic, political agenda but also their political philosophies and beliefs. I find it quit buffling for someone who seems to have received a good western liberal education and seems to enjoy residing in the west to all of a sudden insinuate that such values are not good for Africans because they are not mature. If a white person expressed those same views as you are we would all be besides ourselves screaming "racism", "colonialism" etc.
It's okay for you to do that if you wish. Their responses would not in any way affect my choice for the reasons I have explained. Such ideology or beliefs are not important to me.
What do we really have to loose?. Let us force them tell us if they support the concepts of liberty in our constitutions and explain how they will uphold the rule of law and the democratic values in our constitution and then let see them become dictators before we declare that it will not work.
This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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Part of freedom and liberalism includes accepting that others do not share our values. I have no problem if you want candidates grilled about their philosophies. Some Kenyans like you will be interested and informed to make their choices. Others like me will not be bothered. Performance track records of leaders are more useful to us.
If we are trying to make Kenya a modern Democratic state then I cannot see why we should disagree as to whether presidential candidates should be required to articulate not only their economic, political agenda but also their political philosophies and beliefs. I find it quit buffling for someone who seems to have received a good western liberal education and seems to enjoy residing in the west to all of a sudden insinuate that such values are not good for Africans because they are not mature. If a white person expressed those same views as you are we would all be besides ourselves screaming "racism", "colonialism" etc.
It's okay for you to do that if you wish. Their responses would not in any way affect my choice for the reasons I have explained. Such ideology or beliefs are not important to me.
What do we really have to loose?. Let us force them tell us if they support the concepts of liberty in our constitutions and explain how they will uphold the rule of law and the democratic values in our constitution and then let see them become dictators before we declare that it will not work.
This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
Part of freedom and liberalism includes accepting that others do not share our values. I have no problem if you want candidates grilled about their philosophies. Some Kenyans like you will be interested and informed to make their choices. Others like me will not be bothered. Performance track records of leaders are more useful to us.
If we are trying to make Kenya a modern Democratic state then I cannot see why we should disagree as to whether presidential candidates should be required to articulate not only their economic, political agenda but also their political philosophies and beliefs. I find it quit buffling for someone who seems to have received a good western liberal education and seems to enjoy residing in the west to all of a sudden insinuate that such values are not good for Africans because they are not mature. If a white person expressed those same views as you are we would all be besides ourselves screaming "racism", "colonialism" etc.
It's okay for you to do that if you wish. Their responses would not in any way affect my choice for the reasons I have explained. Such ideology or beliefs are not important to me.
What do we really have to loose?. Let us force them tell us if they support the concepts of liberty in our constitutions and explain how they will uphold the rule of law and the democratic values in our constitution and then let see them become dictators before we declare that it will not work.
This is exactly my point: anyone can answer these questions excellently without butting an eyelid yet become dictatorial once elected. Every leader and party promises zero tolerance to corruption yet Kenya is as corrupt as ever. Words mean nothing. Same as everyone claiming to be a performer. The latter cannot be faked unlike the former. It's much smarter to bet on performance.
That's a silly copout just because you support Ruto.
Those values cannot be faked if people are forced to express them and held accountable.
The reason why people like Ruto do not want to publicly talk about these values is because they are not forced to by the media and the public and because they do want to volunteer and be held accountable since they want to leave open the option of becoming a dictator
Our presidential debates and media interviews for presidential candidates should begin with such questions when the candidates debut.
Host: If you are elected president, you will be required to take the oath office to protect the constitution of Kenya. The constitution of Kenya is arguably one of the most liberal constitutions in the world. Do you believe in those liberal values upon which this constitution is based upon and which you will not only be required to uphold but to also protect.
Follow-up question. If you believe in those values, could you please list/recite those values as you understand them and tell us why you believe in them and how you intend to uphold them.
Another good Follow-up question: Do you agree that someone who do not believe in those values should be disqualified from running for this office because one cannot be expected to uphold and protect values which one do not believe in or disagree with?
My issue with these values or principles is they can be faked. People turn into dictators once they have power Moi-style.
Performance and laziness cannot be faked. Raila the disorganized slaggard would infect us with indolence and sloth. Ruto would ensure efficiency and seamless delivery.
The problem with Sub Sahara is not just corruption and the vices you note but incompetence is the big elephant. Ruto leads by a stretch in solving incompetence. We contrast Ruto with Meles or Kagame for this reason. Raila can be contrasted with Hugo Chavez and other ideologues.
The biggest problems in Kenya are corruption, impunity, tribalism, inclusivity and economic justice. This is why some of us are interesting in knowing whether Ruto is committed to the principles upon which our constitution is based upon, civil liberties, free market, the rule of law, equality, democracy, freedoms of speech, et all. I am disappointed/surprised that none of these principles/values appear in your list of reasons why you support Ruto. That Kenya is not mature yet for us to demand leaders to adhere to these principles is hogwash.
Ruto is in trouble. Things are not as smooth as he thought. His allies are being silenced not just Sonko. Murkomen and Duale too. Or perhaps he has anticipated all the troubles and will milk them for sympathy. It's his turn to walk on eggs around GEMA like Moi in the 70s. The road to heaven is very narrow and thorny so he should take heart.
I don't support candidates because they are guaranteed victory but rather my confidence in them. Just like I stuck with Raila in 2017 despite Omollo's MOAS not adding up. Ruto has a fair chance. 50-50.
I support Ruto because he is ambitious and man enough to perform complete with a track record. Unlike the competitors kina Mdvd and Gideon who have nothing to show. I also don't believe in the dynasty system which is the opposite of inclusion, merit and democracy contrary to Raila's lies.
I am not Kalenjin. I think most of the people here are driven by tribe in their choices which is a shame.
Robina you oscillate like a pendulum.When did Ruto get into trouble.Or coz Sonko is in trouble then Ruto is also in trouble.Ruto has nearly 30yrs experience in politics so relax n watch him score the final goal.
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whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
Essentially a social contract. I think that matters at a fundamental level. As far as I can tell, Ruto wants the continuation of scorched earth ethnicized politics, the tribal census where you line up to vote for your "our man". I am increasingly convinced he does not lack an ideology. He just has a bad one.
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Since independence from mkoloni our key goals are to eliminate ignorance, disease and poverty. We are still aiming for a middle class economy to end squalor. The "ground rules" cannot be based on some alien principles acquired via plagiary where a committee of quacks copy-pasted the US constitution. That's why you have such a disconnect when a tree-hugging liberal like Obama or Clinton attempts to impose gay rights on Africa and is met with protests. If Kenyans or Africans are so happy with western freedoms why are they so vehement against gayism?
Competence and performance - the ability to turn vision into reality - must be the basic principle underlying our leadership. Peddlers of empty rhetoric should be automatically disqualified. That or let people square off at the ballot. Sorry your liberal ideologies don't impress me at all. You know me really - I have been pushing for benevolent dictatorship and this should tell you how much worth I attach to ideology especially the utopian "social justice" kind.
People can never agree on what's most important. That is why you have the ballot - so the majority can rule - in place of the bullet.
The "ground rules" are actually the constitution you are trying to change. Please respect the current rules. It's all in the constitution and the law. Just get ready to be whacked by Star Performer William Ruto as you hanker for new rules cause you don't like the current ones.
whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
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And instead of electoral reforms - which is voodoo - we are being told we need a PM and his 2 deputies - and Uhuru is the main contender for the new post! Cause this will cause "inclusion". This is resoundingly supported by the dynasties - families that have dominated Kenya politically and economically since independence. These are basically overlords who have bullied and looted the country into submission. And Kichwa supporting this lunacy can also lecture us on freedom sijui liberal values. Ukistaajabu ya Musa kweli :D
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whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
Essentially a social contract. I think that matters at a fundamental level. As far as I can tell, Ruto wants the continuation of scorched earth ethnicized politics, the tribal census where you line up to vote for your "our man". I am increasingly convinced he does not lack an ideology. He just has a bad one.
The ground rules are the constitution and the law. Chapter six, 50%+1, 24 counties, 35+ years, bla bla. You may want to change it to include "ideology" or something like that. Sadly all I hear is PM and regional government. And "inclusion" :)
What do you suggest exactly - a new clause about ideology in the Elections Act? Or a new clause in Chapter Six? How exactly would candidates ideology be verified? How about the voters' freedom of choice?
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Singapore is what happens when vision and performance prevail. Venezuela is what happens when ideologues take over the country. Civil and economic strife. 4000% inflation.
Mr Nicolas "social justice" Maduro now has resorted to strong-arm tactics where noone has a job anymore. Everyone is "equal" in squalor.
Nicolas Maduro wins as rivals call for new Venezuela elections
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/world/Nicolas-Maduro-wins-as-rivals-call-for-new-Venezuela-elections/3126396-4572064-gv22rez/index.html (https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/world/Nicolas-Maduro-wins-as-rivals-call-for-new-Venezuela-elections/3126396-4572064-gv22rez/index.html)
(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4572068/medRes/1980176/-/q5uby0/-/1.jpg)
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bitmask and Kichwa I have an excellent suggestion. As part of the referendum we can have a new ideological clause.
Clause 806. The candidate's ideology shall be liberal in the mold of Western democracy. They shall absolutely embrace democracy, freedom of choice, worship, gayism, socialism, equality, etc - as certified by western NGOs. These shall be exemplified by candidates own visions and manifestoes, personal ethos and vows, party rules, speeches and lectures before global audiences....
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whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
Essentially a social contract. I think that matters at a fundamental level. As far as I can tell, Ruto wants the continuation of scorched earth ethnicized politics, the tribal census where you line up to vote for your "our man". I am increasingly convinced he does not lack an ideology. He just has a bad one.
The ground rules are the constitution and the law. Chapter six, 50%+1, 24 counties, 35+ years, bla bla. You may want to change it to include "ideology" or something like that. Sadly all I hear is PM and regional government. And "inclusion" :)
What do you suggest exactly - a new clause about ideology in the Elections Act? Or a new clause in Chapter Six? How exactly would candidates ideology be verified? How about the voters' freedom of choice?
The constitution is indeed a reflection of the social contract. The politician would ordinarily indicate how his worldview best promotes that contract.
It need not be said that performance and track record are not points of contention. I don’t know anybody who doesn’t want performance and a good track record. But you bring it up repeatedly as if someone has disagreed with it.
By now it’s obvious many crucial parts of Kenya’s constitution have been either abandoned or watered down. I think this is a reflection of the ideology of those entrusted with implementing it.
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Precisely.
Singapore is what happens when vision and performance prevail. Venezuela is what happens when ideologues take over the country. Civil and economic strife. 4000% inflation.
Mr Nicolas "social justice" Maduro now has resorted to strong-arm tactics where noone has a job anymore. Everyone is "equal" in squalor.
Nicolas Maduro wins as rivals call for new Venezuela elections
https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/world/Nicolas-Maduro-wins-as-rivals-call-for-new-Venezuela-elections/3126396-4572064-gv22rez/index.html (https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/world/Nicolas-Maduro-wins-as-rivals-call-for-new-Venezuela-elections/3126396-4572064-gv22rez/index.html)
(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4572068/medRes/1980176/-/q5uby0/-/1.jpg)
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whether it is democracy or capitalism, we must agree on the ground rules first before we can compete. We must all agree that all our candidates must embrace the core concepts of the modern liberal traditions and to uphold the constitution which is based on those principles. Requiring leaders to declare their position on the ground rules for engagement is critical and crucial and therefore not a matter of opinion. Its like any other game-there must be an agreement on the ground rules and rules of engagement.
Essentially a social contract. I think that matters at a fundamental level. As far as I can tell, Ruto wants the continuation of scorched earth ethnicized politics, the tribal census where you line up to vote for your "our man". I am increasingly convinced he does not lack an ideology. He just has a bad one.
The ground rules are the constitution and the law. Chapter six, 50%+1, 24 counties, 35+ years, bla bla. You may want to change it to include "ideology" or something like that. Sadly all I hear is PM and regional government. And "inclusion" :)
What do you suggest exactly - a new clause about ideology in the Elections Act? Or a new clause in Chapter Six? How exactly would candidates ideology be verified? How about the voters' freedom of choice?
The constitution is indeed a reflection of the social contract. The politician would ordinarily indicate how his worldview best promotes that contract.
It need not be said that performance and track record are not points of contention. I don’t know anybody who doesn’t want performance and a good track record. But you bring it up repeatedly as if someone has disagreed with it.
By now it’s obvious many crucial parts of Kenya’s constitution have been either abandoned or watered down. I think this is a reflection of the ideology of those entrusted with implementing it.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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The constitution is indeed a reflection of the social contract. The politician would ordinarily indicate how his worldview best promotes that contract.
It need not be said that performance and track record are not points of contention. I don’t know anybody who doesn’t want performance and a good track record. But you bring it up repeatedly as if someone has disagreed with it.
By now it’s obvious many crucial parts of Kenya’s constitution have been either abandoned or watered down. I think this is a reflection of the ideology of those entrusted with implementing it.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
I think they already have the ideologies wired in. I brought up Ruto's because I have never heard him articulate it. But I think I have an idea what it is and maybe why he has not articulated it. IMO the metric for performance and track record is the social contract.
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Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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BS. Look up the word objective in the dictionary and then stop misusing the word. You just want to be on the "winning" side for a change because Ruto looks like he is Ouru's heir apparent. Do not underestimate the people who are against Ruto's presidency. They are a diverse group of Kenyans and outsiders who strongly believe he should not be anywhere near the presidency. I know you are basing all your prediction on Raila and Ruto running against each other but you could be surprised that Raila may not run and a kikuyu may run again. There are so many ways to stop Ruto's presidency but its too early in the game for you to be jumping up and down as if Ruto is already president and we should be discussing 2027 instead of 2022.
Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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Indeed we don't put it beyond Raila to do abracadabra. With the dynasties backing his scheme I expect a Gidi-Madvd combo with Uhuru as PM-designate and himself as campaign manager - or a thing like it. Faced with formidable Ruto, running for the upteenth time at 80 is not smart. He needs all the trickery he can master.
BS. Look up the word objective in the dictionary and then stop misusing the word. You just want to be on the "winning" side for a change because Ruto looks like he is Ouru's heir apparent. Do not underestimate the people who are against Ruto's presidency. They are a diverse group of Kenyans and outsiders who strongly believe he should not be anywhere near the presidency. I know you are basing all your prediction on Raila and Ruto running against each other but you could be surprised that Raila may not run and a kikuyu may run again. There are so many ways to stop Ruto's presidency but its too early in the game for you to be jumping up and down as if Ruto is already president and we should be discussing 2027 instead of 2022.
Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4573632/medRes/1981190/-/15qj136/-/CART-22-5-2018.jpg)
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That dynasty crap is not going anywhere. If you say Kenyans cannot understand ideology politics, how do you expect them to understand dynasty politics? Raila is no longer the face of opposition politics and Ruto will not succeed in making him one.
Indeed we don't put it beyond Raila to do abracadabra. With the dynasties backing his scheme I expect a Gidi-Madvd combo with Uhuru as PM-designate and himself as campaign manager - or a thing like it. Faced with formidable Ruto, running for the upteenth time at 80 is not smart. He needs all the trickery he can master.
BS. Look up the word objective in the dictionary and then stop misusing the word. You just want to be on the "winning" side for a change because Ruto looks like he is Ouru's heir apparent. Do not underestimate the people who are against Ruto's presidency. They are a diverse group of Kenyans and outsiders who strongly believe he should not be anywhere near the presidency. I know you are basing all your prediction on Raila and Ruto running against each other but you could be surprised that Raila may not run and a kikuyu may run again. There are so many ways to stop Ruto's presidency but its too early in the game for you to be jumping up and down as if Ruto is already president and we should be discussing 2027 instead of 2022.
Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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unfortunately for you Referendum was never a condition precedent for the handshake of vice versa. The handshake will survive the referendum debate either way.
(https://mobile.nation.co.ke/image/view/-/4573632/medRes/1981190/-/15qj136/-/CART-22-5-2018.jpg)
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Kenyans understand dynasty vs common man language very well. Another thing is that the dynasties are fantastically corrupt which makes Ruto mweusi kama pamba. That's the reason for hankering to introduce ideology and other local non-starters popular only in the west.
That dynasty crap is not going anywhere. If you say Kenyans cannot understand ideology politics, how do you expect them to understand dynasty politics? Raila is no longer the face of opposition politics and Ruto will not succeed in making him one.
Indeed we don't put it beyond Raila to do abracadabra. With the dynasties backing his scheme I expect a Gidi-Madvd combo with Uhuru as PM-designate and himself as campaign manager - or a thing like it. Faced with formidable Ruto, running for the upteenth time at 80 is not smart. He needs all the trickery he can master.
BS. Look up the word objective in the dictionary and then stop misusing the word. You just want to be on the "winning" side for a change because Ruto looks like he is Ouru's heir apparent. Do not underestimate the people who are against Ruto's presidency. They are a diverse group of Kenyans and outsiders who strongly believe he should not be anywhere near the presidency. I know you are basing all your prediction on Raila and Ruto running against each other but you could be surprised that Raila may not run and a kikuyu may run again. There are so many ways to stop Ruto's presidency but its too early in the game for you to be jumping up and down as if Ruto is already president and we should be discussing 2027 instead of 2022.
Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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Kenyans understand rich and poor and do not give a damn where the money came from. Those who love Ruto do so because he has a lot of money and would care less where his got the money. Trying to separate Rich people into dynasties and chicken sellers is a luxury only those living in lala-land can afford.
Kenyans understand dynasty vs common man language very well. Another thing is that the dynasties are fantastically corrupt which makes Ruto mweusi kama pamba. That's the reason for hankering to introduce ideology and other local non-starters popular only in the west.
That dynasty crap is not going anywhere. If you say Kenyans cannot understand ideology politics, how do you expect them to understand dynasty politics? Raila is no longer the face of opposition politics and Ruto will not succeed in making him one.
Indeed we don't put it beyond Raila to do abracadabra. With the dynasties backing his scheme I expect a Gidi-Madvd combo with Uhuru as PM-designate and himself as campaign manager - or a thing like it. Faced with formidable Ruto, running for the upteenth time at 80 is not smart. He needs all the trickery he can master.
BS. Look up the word objective in the dictionary and then stop misusing the word. You just want to be on the "winning" side for a change because Ruto looks like he is Ouru's heir apparent. Do not underestimate the people who are against Ruto's presidency. They are a diverse group of Kenyans and outsiders who strongly believe he should not be anywhere near the presidency. I know you are basing all your prediction on Raila and Ruto running against each other but you could be surprised that Raila may not run and a kikuyu may run again. There are so many ways to stop Ruto's presidency but its too early in the game for you to be jumping up and down as if Ruto is already president and we should be discussing 2027 instead of 2022.
Unlike you who would follow Raila to hell I'm objective. It's not necessary for Ruto to win for me to support him. Having the best record among the present possible candidates is enough.
I see you are very gung-ho about Ruto candidacy, but just a word of caution, its too early to get overly excited about Ruto 2022. I understand that you really want to be on the "winning side" like yesterday. Never forget that 1 day in politics is like a year in real life, o give us a break with the spirited election fever predictions-there will be enough time for that.
Yup. Wanjiku and Khadija are too smart to be taken for fools. Besides performance where Ruto leads big time, this time the debate is merit&democracy vs dynasty. Attempts to introduce a new animal called ideology is a waste of time.
Agreed. In developed world - it's given gov will do it's basic job (if it's not done already) - fixing infrastructure, paying salaries and providing services --yeah providing jobs & growing the economy is number priority everywhere but what people are concerned about "how" the gov can do that - not "if". Therefore people in developed will debate the "hows" knowing it given the job will be done. But here we are debating IF anything will be done. It's more I will create "clean jobs" but here we would be happy with any jobs. Therefore in Kenya people who actually do something..are popular than people who talk up a storm of how it surely be done right. Ruto, Matiangis, Michukis, Nyachaes,Balalas,Mutuas and such kind of people are the kind of folks we need. Raila has failed to impress because he is mostly a talker not a doer.From lowly MCA to PORK - people are looking for people who can get shiet. done...given a chance they won't care for education or corruption or tribe...they just need someone who can do something.
While I don't agree that we need elaborate ideology in our leaders, I'm asking how you propose this should be realized. Presidential debates are held during elections and everyone vows zero tolerance to corruption. Needless to say that is empty rhetoric. Would adding a few questions about ideology make our choice of leaders better? I think this will develop with time once bread and butter has been dealt with. I take the western ideological maturity as an economic payoff. A luxury. Rights, social justice and such things are a function of economic development. That's why I see performance as a singular wheat-from-chaff element of a good leader. Because at $2k per capita we are eons behind rights-obsessed, gay-loving mzungu.
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Hehehe Pundit, I think Ouru did get a political brain transplant after all ....
Ultimately, the shock for Tangatanga, and their biggest reality moment, is the realisation that this is not the Uhuru they thought they signed with. The word early in the life of this regime was that Uhuru would remain a mere figurehead, sipping certain beverages within the comfort of State House, while Ruto would be the real power man running the show and the government. (TRUMPETED HERE SEVERAL TIMES BY PUNDIT)
They never factored in the shrewd and calculating Uhuru, who, with this BBI routing, has completed the isolation of his deputy and painted him as one with support only in his ethnic community.
Anyway you were so wrong ... this is you almost two years ago ....
It very rich to imagine Uhuru can act alone without Ruto. That would mean Uhuru got a political brain transplant. I don't think Ruto would object to Putin-Medved - as long as Uhuru delivers GEMA - then it doesn't matter.
I think all these is part of choreographed move by UhuRuto to destroy Raila.This is just like Mau - where GEMA were edging Raila to evict Kalenjin and when d-day come- they abandoned Raila. The ultimate aim is to neuter Raila and destroy NASA.Now that Raila has been so neutured and NASA is dead - I think Ruto just want to pull the plug in few months - hence all these "pressure" on Uhuru to go slow.
Raila can keep this going by allowing Uhuru to enter all his orifices without any resistance :) and with little pay. Ruto is basically not going to give an INCH Raila....so Raila had better prepare to fight for every inch.
Uhuru immediate gain is that economy is back on the sail and he is governing bila wasi wasi of opposition. Ruto gain is destruction of Raila prospect in 2022.
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He has no brain. That is why he has been abandoned by Mt Kenya people. BBI that you guys are trumpeting I doubt will pass through the judiciary. It time barred if you factor court battles.
Hehehe Pundit, I think Ouru did get a political brain transplant after all ....
Ultimately, the shock for Tangatanga, and their biggest reality moment, is the realisation that this is not the Uhuru they thought they signed with. The word early in the life of this regime was that Uhuru would remain a mere figurehead, sipping certain beverages within the comfort of State House, while Ruto would be the real power man running the show and the government. (TRUMPETED HERE SEVERAL TIMES BY PUNDIT)
They never factored in the shrewd and calculating Uhuru, who, with this BBI routing, has completed the isolation of his deputy and painted him as one with support only in his ethnic community.
Anyway you were so wrong ... this is you almost two years ago ....
It very rich to imagine Uhuru can act alone without Ruto. That would mean Uhuru got a political brain transplant. I don't think Ruto would object to Putin-Medved - as long as Uhuru delivers GEMA - then it doesn't matter.
I think all these is part of choreographed move by UhuRuto to destroy Raila.This is just like Mau - where GEMA were edging Raila to evict Kalenjin and when d-day come- they abandoned Raila. The ultimate aim is to neuter Raila and destroy NASA.Now that Raila has been so neutured and NASA is dead - I think Ruto just want to pull the plug in few months - hence all these "pressure" on Uhuru to go slow.
Raila can keep this going by allowing Uhuru to enter all his orifices without any resistance :) and with little pay. Ruto is basically not going to give an INCH Raila....so Raila had better prepare to fight for every inch.
Uhuru immediate gain is that economy is back on the sail and he is governing bila wasi wasi of opposition. Ruto gain is destruction of Raila prospect in 2022.
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Is it asking too much for people to take responsibility for their utterances on this forum? Granted there are serial posters here and the laws of probability has it that the more you post, the more likely a few of your predictions will go awry. It does not take much ... just 3 words "I was wrong" or if you have lived or been educated in the West you can reduce those three words to TWO words "My bad" ama is it a case of that hit song of the 80s that went "sorry :sorry: is the hardest thing to say"
He has no brain. That is why he has been abandoned by Mt Kenya people. BBI that you guys are trumpeting I doubt will pass through the judiciary. It time barred if you factor court battles.
Hehehe Pundit, I think Ouru did get a political brain transplant after all ....
Ultimately, the shock for Tangatanga, and their biggest reality moment, is the realisation that this is not the Uhuru they thought they signed with. The word early in the life of this regime was that Uhuru would remain a mere figurehead, sipping certain beverages within the comfort of State House, while Ruto would be the real power man running the show and the government. (TRUMPETED HERE SEVERAL TIMES BY PUNDIT)
They never factored in the shrewd and calculating Uhuru, who, with this BBI routing, has completed the isolation of his deputy and painted him as one with support only in his ethnic community.
Anyway you were so wrong ... this is you almost two years ago ....
It very rich to imagine Uhuru can act alone without Ruto. That would mean Uhuru got a political brain transplant. I don't think Ruto would object to Putin-Medved - as long as Uhuru delivers GEMA - then it doesn't matter.
I think all these is part of choreographed move by UhuRuto to destroy Raila.This is just like Mau - where GEMA were edging Raila to evict Kalenjin and when d-day come- they abandoned Raila. The ultimate aim is to neuter Raila and destroy NASA.Now that Raila has been so neutured and NASA is dead - I think Ruto just want to pull the plug in few months - hence all these "pressure" on Uhuru to go slow.
Raila can keep this going by allowing Uhuru to enter all his orifices without any resistance :) and with little pay. Ruto is basically not going to give an INCH Raila....so Raila had better prepare to fight for every inch.
Uhuru immediate gain is that economy is back on the sail and he is governing bila wasi wasi of opposition. Ruto gain is destruction of Raila prospect in 2022.
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Waste of words; I have been wrong severally. Wait until August 23rd 2022 then you can come and gloat; Otherwise like many before; you'll disappear again in depression; because you're backing the wrong horse.
Is it asking too much for people to take responsibility for their utterances on this forum? Granted there are serial posters here and the laws of probability has it that the more you most, the more likely a few of your predictions will go awry. It does not take much ... just 3 words "I was wrong" or if you have lived or been educated in the West you can reduce those three words to TWO words "My bad" ama as that hit song of the 80s went "sorry :sorry: is the hardest thing to say"
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:) :) have you realized they are trying to pit me against you , a few months ago they were saying we are one and the same person.
Waste of words; I have been wrong severally. Wait until August 23rd 2022 then you can come and gloat; Otherwise like many before; you'll disappear again in depression; because you're backing the wrong horse.
Is it asking too much for people to take responsibility for their utterances on this forum? Granted there are serial posters here and the laws of probability has it that the more you most, the more likely a few of your predictions will go awry. It does not take much ... just 3 words "I was wrong" or if you have lived or been educated in the West you can reduce those three words to TWO words "My bad" ama as that hit song of the 80s went "sorry :sorry: is the hardest thing to say"
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RV Pundit is a moderator on this forum and even before you came seeking asylum on Veritas blog, he was doing fine. Very fine! Why would he need you to be on his side when very openly he has stated that you are of Low IQ? Don't flatter yourself thinking that Pundit needs you. Go back to choo.com instead of posting incoherent inshas here that nobody (not even Pundit) finds of any value. Bure kabisa.
:) :) have you realized they are trying to pit me against you , a few months ago they were saying we are one and the same person.
Waste of words; I have been wrong severally. Wait until August 23rd 2022 then you can come and gloat; Otherwise like many before; you'll disappear again in depression; because you're backing the wrong horse.
Is it asking too much for people to take responsibility for their utterances on this forum? Granted there are serial posters here and the laws of probability has it that the more you most, the more likely a few of your predictions will go awry. It does not take much ... just 3 words "I was wrong" or if you have lived or been educated in the West you can reduce those three words to TWO words "My bad" ama as that hit song of the 80s went "sorry :sorry: is the hardest thing to say"