Nipate
Forum => Controversial => Topic started by: GeeMail on September 17, 2014, 09:52:57 AM
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What Jesus Said About Hell
Jesus used two Greek terms, hades and gehenna , to
speak about death and the punishment of the unrighteous.
Given the popular belief in the meaning "hell," we need to
consider it carefully.
Hades is equivalent to the Hebrew she’ôl , the most
common Old Testament term for the realm of the dead.
These names simply represent the grave or the place to
which all descend at death, with no connotation of
punishment or reward. There is one text, however, where
hades appears to be connected with punishment. It is in
the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Read Luke 16:19-31 . What is the basic lesson that this
parable sets forth (see especially Luke 16:27-31 ) ?
What’s wrong with using this parable to teach that human beings
go to paradise or hell immediately after death?
This parable is not focused on the state of man in death.
A popular but unbiblical belief that many of Jesus’
contemporaries held provided the background for this
parable, which teaches an important lesson: our future
destiny is determined by the decisions we make daily in
this life. If we reject the light God grants us here, there is no
opportunity after death. Any attempt to interpret this
parable literally leads to many insoluble problems. Actually, the
details of the picture seem purposely awkward in order to
show us that Jesus did not intend His words to be taken
literally, but figuratively.
What warnings did Jesus pronounce regarding hell? See
Matt. 5:22 , 29-30 ; 23:33 .
In many Bible translations, the word hell appears eleven
times on Jesus’ lips. He actually used the Greek term
gehenna , from the Hebrew name Gê Hinnom , "Valley of
Hinnom." According to the Old Testament, in this gorge
south of Jerusalem, kings Ahaz and Manasseh conducted
the horrendous pagan rite of burning children to Molech (2
Chron. 28:3 , 33:6 ) . Later, godly king Josiah brought the
practice to a halt (2 Kings 23:10 ). Because of the sins
perpetrated in it, Jeremiah prophesied that God would
make the place a "valley of slaughter" (Jer. 7:32-33 ; 19:6 ).
Hence, for the Jews, the valley became a symbol of the
last judgment and the punishment of the impenitent. Jesus
used the name figuratively, without explaining any details
regarding the time and place of the punishment, which we
find in other biblical passages. Hell, though, is not a place
of eternal punishment.
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So what do you believe happens after death? What state/place is the soul in between death and resurrection (of the dead)?
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The Resurrection and the Judgment
What we have studied so far could lead us to think that
the resurrection will be for only a few. But Jesus affirmed
that a time will come when "all who are in the graves will
hear His voice and come forth" (John 5:28-29, NKJV,
emphasis added) . Believers and unbelievers, righteous and
sinners, saved and lost, all will be raised. As Paul declared,
"there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and
the unjust" (Acts 24:15, NKJV).
Though all are, eventually, raised from the dead, all will
face only one of two eternal fates. What are they? John
5:28-29.
The universality of the resurrection doesn’t mean that at
the final day everybody will be ushered into a blissful and
joyful eternal life. "Those who sleep in the dust of the earth
shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and
everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2, NKJV) .
The Bible teaches that God will judge the lives of every
human being, deciding the eternal destiny of each person
who ever lived (Eccles. 12:14 , Rom. 2:1-11 ) . The execution
of the divine sentence, however, does not occur immediately
after the death of each individual but only after his or her
resurrection. Until then, both the saved and the lost sleep
unconsciously in the dust. The resurrection, by itself, is
neither a reward nor a punishment. It is the precondition to
receiving eternal life or condemnation.
Speaking of the two resurrections, Jesus indicated that
our destiny will be decided on the basis of the moral quality
of our deeds (good or bad). This fact, however, doesn’t
mean that works save us. On the contrary, Jesus clearly
taught that our salvation depends exclusively on our faith in
Him as our Savior (John 3:16). Why, then, are works taken
into consideration? Because they show whether our faith in
Christ and our surrender to Him are genuine or not (James
2:18). Our works demonstrate whether we are still "dead in
trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, NKJV) or "dead indeed to
sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom. 6:11,
NKJV).
Dwell on the ultimate destiny that awaits each of us.
If anything is standing between you and eternal life,
why not, right now, choose to get rid of it? After all,
what possibly could be worth losing eternity for?
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What’s wrong with using this parable to teach that human beings
go to paradise or hell immediately after death?
This parable is not focused on the state of man in death.
dAILYbREAD,
Could you be kind enough to point out ANY parable of Christ that is remotely unrealistic in the imagery it uses be it coins,Labourers,stewards,sower and so forth?
To claim that Jesus uses a 'heretical' image of souls fully conscious past death to communicate a truth is theological circus.
Besides, let's test your theory of souls sleeping in the grave. Methuselah is dead perhaps destroyed by the Flood. His memory can't exist outside him so it perishes as well. Only God knows what deeds Methuselah did. At resurrection, say in 2044AD, some 5000 years after his death,God resurrects him. Actually, he RECREATES him seeing NOTHING exists of this man except bones and even those are most likely gone. Fossilization is very rare; most bones suffer decay. This recreated thing is NOT Methuselah. It has a fresh brain,body. God proceeds to sentence this 'fresh' Methuselah to eternal damnation. What did it do? God called it the Methuselah that perished 5000 years ago! That aside, the freshly recreated Methuselah must be loaded with the original Methuselah memory,otherwise the judgement is a farce.
This is what soul-sleep theology boils down to; a God who punishes creatures for sins that they never did, and rewards others for righteousness or good deeds they never did. What's the point of judgement anyway? Why can't God recreate me before I die and judge the cloned me in advance?
Now, contrast that with angels who once they sinned say 6000 years ago are the same creatures who will be punished in 2044AD
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And something else dAILY bREAD,
Please quote the source of your messages. We was almost shut out of .com over copyright spats
Here's your source
Http://ssnet.org/lessons/14c/less12.html
Http://stalbans.adventistchurch.org.uk/sabbath-school
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If you are convinced or have the evidence of copy right infringement then delete the thing. You are a Mod, are you not?
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And something else dAILY bREAD,
Please quote the source of your messages. We was almost shut out of .com over copyright spats
Here's your source
Http://ssnet.org/lessons/14c/less12.html
Http://stalbans.adventistchurch.org.uk/sabbath-school
Thanks for the advice. I can tell you for free that Sabbath School.net allows free sharing of its messages. However, acknowledgment of source is essential. Are you Adventist?
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Am a Christian, no idea who/ what Adventists are, but I can guess; they worship Ellen G. White
And something else dAILY bREAD,
Please quote the source of your messages. We was almost shut out of .com over copyright spats
Here's your source
Http://ssnet.org/lessons/14c/less12.html
Http://stalbans.adventistchurch.org.uk/sabbath-school
Thanks for the advice. I can tell you for free that Sabbath School.net allows free sharing of its messages. However, acknowledgment of source is essential. Are you Adventist?
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Am a Christian, no idea who/ what Adventists are, but I can guess; they worship Ellen G. White
And something else dAILY bREAD,
Please quote the source of your messages. We was almost shut out of .com over copyright spats
Here's your source
Http://ssnet.org/lessons/14c/less12.html
Http://stalbans.adventistchurch.org.uk/sabbath-school
Thanks for the advice. I can tell you for free that Sabbath School.net allows free sharing of its messages. However, acknowledgment of source is essential. Are you Adventist?
No they don't. Stop slander. They believe she had visions from God aka a prophetess. They worship the Triune God and the incarnate Word.
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I was guessing and I said as much.
SO we have the apostles, the last one dying around 100 AD. Then there is a spiritual blackout lasting 1700 years UNTIL a woman called Ellen Gould White is born to 'restore' the church to 'true worship' aka sabbath keeping. :o
No they don't. Stop slander. They believe she had visions from God aka a prophetess. They worship the Triune God and the incarnate Word.
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Vooke thanks for response. I am Adventist, meaning I wait for the Lord Jesus Christ's soon return. Anybody who is looking forward to this, also called the Second Advent, is an Adventist even if they are not Sabbath-keepers. Bible lessons are not based on guesswork. If you want to learn more about the Sabbath, I invite you to a series of seven lessons that I will be posting soon.
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Do you have Christians who are not waiting for Christ's soon return?
I noticve you conveniently ignored my questions from the Lazarus parable above. How would we nourish each other if your copied sermons by MEN can't be questioned by MEN?
Vooke thanks for response. I am Adventist, meaning I wait for the Lord Jesus Christ's soon return. Anybody who is looking forward to this, also called the Second Advent, is an Adventist even if they are not Sabbath-keepers. Bible lessons are not based on guesswork. If you want to learn more about the Sabbath, I invite you to a series of seven lessons that I will be posting soon.
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thanks once again for your response. Do not marvel that there are Christians who are not waiting for Christ to return. In Kenya pastors are arming themselves with guns as if they are permanent and pensionable residents on earth. Some think Christ will return "like a thief in the night" and find them not ready. Some Christians think Christ has returned already, and some Christians are calling themselves Christ.
I did not ignore your questions on Lazarus. I don't want to court religious controversy. I have posted on Lazarus on a different page. The copied sermons explain themselves very well.
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dAILY bREAD,
If the copied sermons answered my questions, I would not be aksing.
You know they don't,but you are not even the author of the sermons so technically you are not answerable for whatever the sermons are saying or not saying
Shouldn't you follow Peter's admonition
1 Peter 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
And like Paul, explain your faith?
Acts 17:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
or would you rather he had avoided 'religious controversies'?
thanks once again for your response. Do not marvel that there are Christians who are not waiting for Christ to return. In Kenya pastors are arming themselves with guns as if they are permanent and pensionable residents on earth. Some think Christ will return "like a thief in the night" and find them not ready. Some Christians think Christ has returned already, and some Christians are calling themselves Christ.
I did not ignore your questions on Lazarus. I don't want to court religious controversy. I have posted on Lazarus on a different page. The copied sermons explain themselves very well.
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I do not want to be drawn into controversy. The message I posted is well explained from the Bible and I have no problems with it. It explains what Jesus said about hell and I am convinced that it is the true position. I believe if Peter had read it he would have no problems with it.
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Did Jesus in the parable imply consciousness past death in any way from that parable?
I do not want to be drawn into controversy. The message I posted is well explained from the Bible and I have no problems with it. It explains what Jesus said about hell and I am convinced that it is the true position. I believe if Peter had read it he would have no problems with it.
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I do not see the implication about consciousness after death. Even if such an implication existed, the lesson Jesus is teaching is on hell and judgment.
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So what part of the rich man was in hell and what part of Lazarus was at Abraham's bosom? They both clearly were dead abd the richman felt a resurrection miracle could convince his living brothers
I do not see the implication about consciousness after death. Even if such an implication existed, the lesson Jesus is teaching is on hell and judgment.
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That makes me revisit the big Question "Is SDA a Cult?"
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Nobody will admit nothing
That makes me revisit the big Question "Is SDA a Cult?"
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That makes me revisit the big Question "Is SDA a Cult?"
No, they are not.
They are a very regular protestant church except they go to church on Saturday and not Sunday. They also have an extra, extra, extra dose of anti-Catholicism beyond the usual dose among some protestants. This is because Ellen G. White told them that the end times will consist in the Catholic Church establishing a "sunday law" which it will use to persecute and kill Adventists for not worshiping on Sunday. Anti-Catholicism is therefore a central part of their belief system in a way that it is not in other churches. I believe the Pope has 666 somewhere beneath his mitre on his head, per the best SDA wisdom, and his non-existent title (vicarius filii Dei) is supposed to add up to 666 :D They also follow some dietary laws from the old testament and some extra additions, like not eating meat and sticking to vegetarian meals. They have Pascha (Easter) not on the regular Easter but on three/four designated times a year, i think every three/four months. They do the whole shebang, washing each others' feet and wiping them and the last supper. I think its a lovely practice. :) They don't celebrate Christmas (At least not in church, anyway....at home, its a completely different story :D). They have a week long camp every year--it has a special name but I forget. SDAs take hymns very seriously and they do their singing very well. When they visit each other at home, or in the Hospital, they will always do a prayer and a song and the songs are always lovely. As you are now aware, they also believe in soul sleep and they believe that St. Michael the Archangel is not a regular angel (creature) but rather Christ.
Those are the only peculiarities about SDAs that set them apart from others. Besides those, they are really much like any other protestants. Not weird at all. :)
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the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Read Luke 16:19-31 . What is the basic lesson that this
parable sets forth (see especially Luke 16:27-31 ) ?
What’s wrong with using this parable to teach that human beings
go to paradise or hell immediately after death?
This parable is not focused on the state of man in death.
A popular but unbiblical belief that many of Jesus’
contemporaries held provided the background for this
parable, which teaches an important lesson: our future
destiny is determined by the decisions we make daily in
this life. If we reject the light God grants us here, there is no
opportunity after death. Any attempt to interpret this
parable literally leads to many insoluble problems. Actually, the
details of the picture seem purposely awkward in order to
show us that Jesus did not intend His words to be taken
literally, but figuratively.
What warnings did Jesus pronounce regarding hell? See
Matt. 5:22 , 29-30 ; 23:33 .
In many Bible translations, the word hell appears eleven
times on Jesus’ lips. He actually used the Greek term
gehenna , from the Hebrew name Gê Hinnom , "Valley of
Hinnom." According to the Old Testament, in this gorge
south of Jerusalem, kings Ahaz and Manasseh conducted
the horrendous pagan rite of burning children to Molech (2
Chron. 28:3 , 33:6 ) . Later, godly king Josiah brought the
practice to a halt (2 Kings 23:10 ). Because of the sins
perpetrated in it, Jeremiah prophesied that God would
make the place a "valley of slaughter" (Jer. 7:32-33 ; 19:6 ).
Hence, for the Jews, the valley became a symbol of the
last judgment and the punishment of the impenitent. Jesus
used the name figuratively, without explaining any details
regarding the time and place of the punishment, which we
find in other biblical passages. Hell, though, is not a place
of eternal punishment.
Are you trying to rewrite the Bible? Who told you that the "Parable" of the Rich man and Lazarus was a Parable?
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Wow, Kadame! Are you Adventist? You seem to know the church very well. Slightly off on some points but I salute your understanding of the church and the lifestyle of Adventists (even Christmas, :D). I will be posting some things here that will tell you more about Adventists and what we believe.