Author Topic: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible  (Read 4908 times)

Online RV Pundit

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I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« on: January 01, 2021, 04:09:45 PM »
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/politics/article/2001398840/only-court-can-bar-ex-governors-from-city-poll-says-havi

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2021, 05:03:00 PM »
Nelson Havi reputation is worse than Miguna. For the first time since 80s there is serious talk of LSK chair getting impeached thanks to Havi poor leadership. Bure kabisa.

Anyway Ruto groupies like Havi - are selling a bridge. The judiciary at best is neutral - at worst is compromised. They have lost case after case against BBI. Ohh it not backed by act of parliament- funds are not approved - now it not allowed to amend sacrosanct clauses - BoR and whatnot.

You are afraid if impeachment is terminal from all offices - Ruto can be impeached and his fate sealed. I think that would be poor strategy so don't worry not happening. The best scenario for Raila is Yes vs No in 2022 - while Ruto want hustler or anything but BBI.

Let thieves be hanged - what's up with you - Stockholm Syndrome?
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2021, 05:07:05 PM »
Pundit if integrity manenos wreck Waititu and Wanjiru - there is no shortage of choices. Ruto can even field Ndii - or Karua  :) - with Prof Mutua. His camp is awash with intellectual creme de la creme.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Online RV Pundit

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2021, 05:41:16 PM »
It more than that. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Like Albino judge Mumbi - whom I know is good person - but her decision to suspend governors - allowed evil people to intimidate governors - with court cases.

Now instead of governor being a president of a county - they are DCI/EACC PUSSIES. All DCI/EACC/DPP need it concoct lies, take it nearest magistrate and guy is out of office.

Today you can elect the best governor - and all I need is get DCI to charge him in court - and they are suspended the next day. Don't be surprised next governors will elect their wifes and girlfriends as deputy governor :)

Forget about Ruto or Sonko. Think about powers you give executive by allowing someone innocent (presumed) to be permanently banned from contesting on mere allegation or seasonal political expedience.

If we want Raila out - we could impeach him from his office in AU - and he will not be eligible?

You're an idiot.

Most of your are idiots.

Some need to exhaust all possible reviews and appeals before they can be condemned - Sonko impeachment is before court - there is allegation of fraud - we know Embu governor was impeached by MCAs and Senate - and yet eventually won in court.

Please your brain - if you have any.

If Waitutu has challenged his impeachment in court and court has entertained it - and technically he is not impeached.

Pundit if integrity manenos wreck Waititu and Wanjiru - there is no shortage of choices. Ruto can even field Ndii - or Karua  :) - with Prof Mutua. His camp is awash with intellectual creme de la creme.

Offline Dear Mami

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2021, 06:30:42 PM »
Now instead of governor being a president of a county - they are DCI/EACC PUSSIES. All DCI/EACC/DPP need it concoct lies, take it nearest magistrate and guy is out of office

But Waititu was tried and convicted by Senate.

Sonko hasn't yet, as far as I understand (by the Senate), so maybe he has a bit of room, but it's kind of ridiculous to have someone impeached by senate for corruption turn around and vie for the same office in the neighboring county barely two minutes after!

Offline Nefertiti

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2021, 07:01:30 PM »
In science we say if all factors are constant xyz applies. That why most stuff work in lab controlled environment but not out in nature.

If Kenya was a magic country - governor should be left alone and allowed all benefit of doubt. But graft is a huge monster much more than governor freedom or even devolution itself. If you ask me what I must choose between clean central government or corrupt devolution- I choose clean center over devolved rot. Of course we know your issue is not survival of devolution but UDA.

This is all for the sake of argument about "my brain" and such nonsense. Mumbi is qualified judge and listened to all sides and arguments before issuing verdict to suspend - DPP/cops, defense, public interest, etc. Someone is under investigation or trial for graft but you want him to run the office where witnesses also work :o Before CoK2010 the trend was for suspects to engage all delaying tactics until witnesses go mteja or they retire from the office which they abused. Now it is in their best interest to fast track the case. Very fresh.

That is as far as criminal cases is concerned.

For impeachment- Waititu or Sonko if they have ACTIVE cases against their impeachments in courts should be allowed to vie. Sonko case I think is in high court so he is qualified - Waititu case was long thrown out. Basically judge will only entertain procedural issues - like MCA accounts were hacked - not the political merits. And that is because CoK2010 gives MCA and senate ultimate power to determine that.

To reiterate your half-arsed fear is executive abuse of power. I am much more worried about governor or politician's abuse of office by looting. I choose to scare potential thieves shitless in lieu of their political independence - to freely be in whatever camp - and my brain, heart, soul, etc are just fine.

It more than that. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Like Albino judge Mumbi - whom I know is good person - but her decision to suspend governors - allowed evil people to intimidate governors - with court cases.

Now instead of governor being a president of a county - they are DCI/EACC PUSSIES. All DCI/EACC/DPP need it concoct lies, take it nearest magistrate and guy is out of office.

Today you can elect the best governor - and all I need is get DCI to charge him in court - and they are suspended the next day. Don't be surprised next governors will elect their wifes and girlfriends as deputy governor :)

Forget about Ruto or Sonko. Think about powers you give executive by allowing someone innocent (presumed) to be permanently banned from contesting on mere allegation or seasonal political expedience.

If we want Raila out - we could impeach him from his office in AU - and he will not be eligible?

You're an idiot.

Most of your are idiots.

Some need to exhaust all possible reviews and appeals before they can be condemned - Sonko impeachment is before court - there is allegation of fraud - we know Embu governor was impeached by MCAs and Senate - and yet eventually won in court.

Please your brain - if you have any.

If Waitutu has challenged his impeachment in court and court has entertained it - and technically he is not impeached.
♫♫ They say all good boys go to heaven... but bad boys bring heaven to you ~ song by Julia Michaels

Offline mankind

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2021, 07:42:22 PM »
  Pundit on this one I think I disagree based on what I have read on impeached fellas especially in the US.  Those folks lose a lot and in the case of Nixon he was advised to resign in order not to lose even his pension.  Now I don't have the whole details but the reasoning goes like this.  Because you have lost the office by being impeached and removed, thus you can not go back to a similar office.  It's akin to say being found guilty of violating a moral issue.  Though not  criminal in itself that action taints your image and denys you moral authority.  Another good example is if I may say so is under tort laws  you can't sue someone for libel or slander for claiming you stole a cow when it was a chicken.  My belief however is that the same can not be said of individuals like what happened to Ruto and Uhuru.  That would be stretching the law too wide.  Being accused of a criminal act is very different from being impeached though a political exercise But removed from office.  That is why the former governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich was impeached, removed from office and barred from holding any public office in the state  before he was convicted and send to jail.  I will try to get several other precedents in other jurisdictions when I have time.

Online RV Pundit

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2021, 08:01:12 PM »
Now instead of governor being a president of a county - they are DCI/EACC PUSSIES. All DCI/EACC/DPP need it concoct lies, take it nearest magistrate and guy is out of office

But Waititu was tried and convicted by Senate.

Sonko hasn't yet, as far as I understand (by the Senate), so maybe he has a bit of room, but it's kind of ridiculous to have someone impeached by senate for corruption turn around and vie for the same office in the neighboring county barely two minutes after!
if he appealed his impeachment then it's not over because court should have final say..embu governor is good example of someone who came back from MCA and senate lynch mob

Offline patel

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2021, 08:03:46 PM »
These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2021, 08:04:22 PM »
  Pundit on this one I think I disagree based on what I have read on impeached fellas especially in the US.  Those folks lose a lot and in the case of Nixon he was advised to resign in order not to lose even his pension.  Now I don't have the whole details but the reasoning goes like this.  Because you have lost the office by being impeached and removed, thus you can not go back to a similar office.  It's akin to say being found guilty of violating a moral issue.  Though not  criminal in itself that action taints your image and denys you moral authority.  Another good example is if I may say so is under tort laws  you can't sue someone for libel or slander for claiming you stole a cow when it was a chicken.  My belief however is that the same can not be said of individuals like what happened to Ruto and Uhuru.  That would be stretching the law too wide.  Being accused of a criminal act is very different from being impeached though a political exercise But removed from office.  That is why the former governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich was impeached, removed from office and barred from holding any public office in the state  before he was convicted and send to jail.  I will try to get several other precedents in other jurisdictions when I have time.
let people not stand because they will lose..but trust me behind limelight us allows criminals to run for office..even if it's for laugh.Waitutu has slim or zero chance of winning..but let him stand..morality cannot be legislated

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2021, 08:04:57 PM »
These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi
Nairobi 1m people are not stupid ..it their city..they know why a chokora is better than COVID 19 millionaire in syit

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2021, 08:06:31 PM »
We should focus on ensuring free and fair elections including weeding out voter bribery ..and never interfere with basic human rights..the right of criminals to stand office doesn't concern me..but here we want to condemn people who are in NOT any jail ..why some countries allow convicted criminals to present themselves. IF PEOPLE WANT BARBARAS AND NOT MESSIAH LET THEM HAVE HIM.Let them run as it's their human right.If people are stupid enough to elect them then surely you cannot protect them.We elected ICC indicted individual thrice..both..first worldwide..twice..shida iko wapi.We thought Raila was worse criminal than them..democracy .Jews have low opinion of jesus christ..hakuna shida..but the Jews have been persecuted until people realise jews will not be intimidated to accept a fake messiah..and now they practice their Judaism still waiting for the real messiah .If jesus christ stood in Israel against waitutu...waitutu wins.We fear democracy. WE NEED TO EMBRACE DEMOCRACY

Offline Wa Njambi

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2021, 08:59:28 PM »
Agreed Patel!  In addition, Ruto is making a big mistake to allow these thugs to "shuherera" on him whenever they get in trouble. They are are starting to define Ruto...Big mistake.

These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2021, 09:08:28 PM »
Agreed Patel!  In addition, Ruto is making a big mistake to allow these thugs to "shuherera" on him whenever they get in trouble. They are are starting to define Ruto...Big mistake.

These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi
maybe Kenyans love thugs like girls love bad boys .Ruto will only touch you if you're popular. THESE THUGS are closer to people than disconnected elite

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2021, 09:14:40 PM »
My own personal experience the touts and  the likes are an asset more than honest introverted  honest man in politics because politics is marketing ...most good people are humble  almost cowards..the idiots and criminals are audacious and have a gift of convincing people..hence the dichotomy

Offline Wa Njambi

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2021, 10:21:21 PM »
It's one thing to work with a "thug" and a different thing to work with "Stupid thugs". Sonko and Waititu are in the same lot of stupid thugs that Miguna belongs to, by nature. These guys have no decorum nor wisdom.

Despite their perceived popularity, they are not an asset but a liability the way Miguna became an ODM liability.

The Sonkos/Waititus will cost Ruto the political capital he has built. They do not bring any capital to the table that Ruto cannot pick for a song.

Uhuru is happy that Ruto is hosting these 'whores' because when the state-machine goes to smoke them out, Ruto may be the collateral to be surrendered. It could be something as stupid as tainted donation or 'organized' crime/violence/etc that has nothing to do with Ruto Per se, but by association.

Ruto should be looking up 'smart thugs' like his namesake William.

Agreed Patel!  In addition, Ruto is making a big mistake to allow these thugs to "shuherera" on him whenever they get in trouble. They are are starting to define Ruto...Big mistake.

These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi
maybe Kenyans love thugs like girls love bad boys .Ruto will only touch you if you're popular. THESE THUGS are closer to people than disconnected elite

Offline Nowayhaha

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2021, 12:21:52 AM »
It's one thing to work with a "thug" and a different thing to work with "Stupid thugs". Sonko and Waititu are in the same lot of stupid thugs that Miguna belongs to, by nature. These guys have no decorum nor wisdom.

Despite their perceived popularity, they are not an asset but a liability the way Miguna became an ODM liability.

The Sonkos/Waititus will cost Ruto the political capital he has built. They do not bring any capital to the table that Ruto cannot pick for a song.

Uhuru is happy that Ruto is hosting these 'whores' because when the state-machine goes to smoke them out, Ruto may be the collateral to be surrendered. It could be something as stupid as tainted donation or 'organized' crime/violence/etc that has nothing to do with Ruto Per se, but by association.

Ruto should be looking up 'smart thugs' like his namesake William.

Agreed Patel!  In addition, Ruto is making a big mistake to allow these thugs to "shuherera" on him whenever they get in trouble. They are are starting to define Ruto...Big mistake.

These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi
maybe Kenyans love thugs like girls love bad boys .Ruto will only touch you if you're popular. THESE THUGS are closer to people than disconnected elite
Fact is if Raila had listened to Miguna he would have become the President, luckily he didnt and also Luckily Ruto is a self advisor he doesnt listen to the kind  BS you are trying to peddle

Offline Wa Njambi

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2021, 02:42:47 AM »
 :D :) Nowayhaha, I didn't know you had a sense of humor. Happy new yr.

It's one thing to work with a "thug" and a different thing to work with "Stupid thugs". Sonko and Waititu are in the same lot of stupid thugs that Miguna belongs to, by nature. These guys have no decorum nor wisdom.

Despite their perceived popularity, they are not an asset but a liability the way Miguna became an ODM liability.

The Sonkos/Waititus will cost Ruto the political capital he has built. They do not bring any capital to the table that Ruto cannot pick for a song.

Uhuru is happy that Ruto is hosting these 'whores' because when the state-machine goes to smoke them out, Ruto may be the collateral to be surrendered. It could be something as stupid as tainted donation or 'organized' crime/violence/etc that has nothing to do with Ruto Per se, but by association.

Ruto should be looking up 'smart thugs' like his namesake William.

Agreed Patel!  In addition, Ruto is making a big mistake to allow these thugs to "shuherera" on him whenever they get in trouble. They are are starting to define Ruto...Big mistake.

These long inshas serve no purpose. Chokoraa governors like sonko and waititu should never be anywhere near leadership. Kibicho should sort these fools out or just take them out once and for all. Let us advocate for good governorship. Sio Haha wezi
maybe Kenyans love thugs like girls love bad boys .Ruto will only touch you if you're popular. THESE THUGS are closer to people than disconnected elite
Fact is if Raila had listened to Miguna he would have become the President, luckily he didnt and also Luckily Ruto is a self advisor he doesnt listen to the kind  BS you are trying to peddle


Offline mankind

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Re: I agree with Havi - Waitutu/Sonko are eligible
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2021, 04:31:58 AM »
  Pundit on this one I think I disagree based on what I have read on impeached fellas especially in the US.  Those folks lose a lot and in the case of Nixon he was advised to resign in order not to lose even his pension.  Now I don't have the whole details but the reasoning goes like this.  Because you have lost the office by being impeached and removed, thus you can not go back to a similar office.  It's akin to say being found guilty of violating a moral issue.  Though not  criminal in itself that action taints your image and denys you moral authority.  Another good example is if I may say so is under tort laws  you can't sue someone for libel or slander for claiming you stole a cow when it was a chicken.  My belief however is that the same can not be said of individuals like what happened to Ruto and Uhuru.  That would be stretching the law too wide.  Being accused of a criminal act is very different from being impeached though a political exercise But removed from office.  That is why the former governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich was impeached, removed from office and barred from holding any public office in the state  before he was convicted and send to jail.  I will try to get several other precedents in other jurisdictions when I have time.
let people not stand because they will lose..but trust me behind limelight us allows criminals to run for office..even if it's for laugh.Waitutu has slim or zero chance of winning..but let him stand..morality cannot be legislated

   Its definately a tricky matter and I havent found a clear precedent yet on other Jurisdictions that make it a slam dunk. However let me explain the reasoning behind Mumbi Ngugi ruling. Law is an evolving creature and has to change with the circumstances. In law 101 you learn the four basic rules of interpretation of statutes i.e Literal, Mischief, Golden and Ejusdem Generis. Without boring you with the details the first just means that literal meaning and in case law a guy who bit the nose of another in a fight could not have been convicted under the statute for assault  because he didnt use an external object. Now parliament in England had to come up with the second rule, Mischief rule because prostitutes were soliciting passers by from their balconies. Though illegal they could not be convicted under the literal rule because they were not on the streets so the mischief had to be cured by the second rule( Read Heydons Case on criteria). Now that is what Mumbi Ngugi meant by the ruling that you couldn't with a clear conscience send back a fella to an office where he could cause mischief.
    I found several articles on this impeachment and removal from office but none is clear cut on baring one from office in the future. It seems to be an evolving jurisprudence. I know you are an a good reader so let me attach the links for you then see what conclusion you come to.

 https://theconversation.com/could-president-trump-be-impeached-and-convicted-but-also-reelected-124384

  https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI_S3_C7_1_2/ALDE_00000701/

  https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-2/section-4/impeachment

     One thing that our senators need to do is be serious readers on the above topic and do a better job because in an impeachment they become jurors. Sitting there and seeming not to understand what is going on makes them seem to just rubberstamp the wishes of  an executive branch of government  something that makes the whole process a joke. Kenyans should expect better from individuals who earn so much money in a third word country pretending to be equals to their counterparts in developed countries.