Plea bargain starts in Eldoret - KE crime capital

[Nefertiti]

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[RV Pundit]

Long overdue. Eldoret being KE crime capital sound like hate speech from a desperado. Nairobi is the capital of everything in kenya.

[Nefertiti]

Glad i caught your attention  Nairobi merely lead in pretty crime - Eldoret lead in genocide. Anyway this is really good news- provided only ODPP can do it not cops. Need to be scaled nationally.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit for instance once they catch up with you for land grabbing in Mau - instead of being locked up and raped - you surrender the property and proceeds and get exiled to Uganda. You seem to like it there.

[RV Pundit]

I know what plea bargain is - and I welcome it. It could unclog our court system. We have far too many court cases. I think nearly a million criminal court case per year. I have gone to the court. Majority are really stupid cases - like being drunk and disorderly - loitering - and selling alcohol. These kind of cases should be given to counties - and sentencing should be strictly communal work - non custodial. But now many poor people who cannot pay bail of 10K or 50k - are clogging the justice systems.

Like Ruto said - new constitution if implemented well - with judiciary fund - will see a court in every sub-county.

And in those sub-county - we also need small prisons service - for community sentencing - your stay at home - and you report for public community services - for your crime.  Cleaning streets. All the Kazi mtaani crap.

Pundit for instance once they catch up with you for land grabbing in Mau - instead of being locked up and raped - you surrender the property and proceeds and get exiled to Uganda. You seem to like it there.

[Nefertiti]

Yes 000's of petty inmates serving 3 months should show up to clean Nairobi River 2 days a week. Instead of clogging GK prison. But that sounds like prison service stuff not plea bargain. Instead of locking up a drug trafficker for 10 years - prosecutor has leeway to halve the sentence provided they surrender the proceeds, volunteer info on fellow criminals, etc. Big fish are nailed easy as mules turn on them for reduced sentence.

[RV Pundit]

I think it's magistrate who decided - prisons cannot decide. It's parliament who should make it clear that these little misdemeanors should not be custodial - but strictly community sentencing. The prison should build capacity - so they can supervise the sentencing and correction services - and we also need to devolve part of the judiciary - like we had done to parliament (MCA) and executive (county gov).

These small crimes should be tried by county courts - appointed and supervised by counties. Now we have situation where counties pass by-laws but cannot enforce it. It's ridicolous.

Take alcohol for example - licensing and control is under counties - but the police arrest and take you to judiciary.

It should be county askari takes you to county courts - and you get sentenced strictly for communal services or maybe max of 3 months.

And this is what counties should be asking -NOT money. Ask for functions - and money will follow.

But BBI is not serious.

Yes 000's of petty inmates serving 3 months should show up to clean Nairobi River 2 days a week. Instead of clogging GK prison. But that sounds like prison service stuff not plea bargain. Instead of locking up a drug trafficker for 10 years - prosecutor has leeway to halve the sentence provided they surrender the proceeds, volunteer info on fellow criminals, etc. Big fish are nailed easy as mules turn on them for reduced sentence.

[Nefertiti]

I think problem lies in need for standard or equal justice. Should illicit brewer get same treatment in Nairobi and Kiambu? The line between LEGAL powers - cause then do the county courts enforce county laws or national laws? BBI is Raila manifesto stop obsessing with it - noone argue it a big national cause but Raila blank checkbook.

Once you draw the clear line of national vs county jurisdiction- it Senate turf to do that - set or manage the standard among the counties. Senate has underperformed in my all-the-way-here eyes.

I think it's magistrate who decided - prisons cannot decide. It's parliament who should make it clear that these little misdemeanors should not be custodial - but strictly community sentencing. The prison should build capacity - so they can supervise the sentencing and correction services - and we also need to devolve part of the judiciary - like we had done to parliament (MCA) and executive (county gov).

These small crimes should be tried by county courts - appointed and supervised by counties. Now we have situation where counties pass by-laws but cannot enforce it. It's ridicolous.

Take alcohol for example - licensing and control is under counties - but the police arrest and take you to judiciary.

It should be county askari takes you to county courts - and you get sentenced strictly for communal services or maybe max of 3 months.

And this is what counties should be asking -NOT money. Ask for functions - and money will follow.

But BBI is not serious.

Yes 000's of petty inmates serving 3 months should show up to clean Nairobi River 2 days a week. Instead of clogging GK prison. But that sounds like prison service stuff not plea bargain. Instead of locking up a drug trafficker for 10 years - prosecutor has leeway to halve the sentence provided they surrender the proceeds, volunteer info on fellow criminals, etc. Big fish are nailed easy as mules turn on them for reduced sentence.

[RV Pundit]

What do you mean same standards. The functions are devolved. Counties decide what punishment is for alcohol drinking. These are BY-LAWS. These by-laws courts should be below magistrate - and you have usual appeal mechanism.

Otherwise what exactly are MCA doing passing laws? Counties need their own police and court systems; to deal with county issues. They have county police force kind of - but they cannot take you to court. Most resort to just beating people or buying police to accompany them. Only Nairobi has court in City Hall.

And county issues by nature should be small issues - small crimes like being drunk and disorderly - should not be in Maraga court.

I think problem lies in need for standard or equal justice. Should illicit brewer get same treatment in Nairobi and Kiambu? The line between LEGAL powers - cause then do the county courts enforce county laws or national laws? BBI is Raila manifesto stop obsessing with it - noone argue it a big national cause but Raila blank checkbook.

Once you draw the clear line of national vs county jurisdiction- it Senate turf to do that - set or manage the standard among the counties. Senate has underperformed in my all-the-way-here eyes.

I think it's magistrate who decided - prisons cannot decide. It's parliament who should make it clear that these little misdemeanors should not be custodial - but strictly community sentencing. The prison should build capacity - so they can supervise the sentencing and correction services - and we also need to devolve part of the judiciary - like we had done to parliament (MCA) and executive (county gov).

These small crimes should be tried by county courts - appointed and supervised by counties. Now we have situation where counties pass by-laws but cannot enforce it. It's ridicolous.

Take alcohol for example - licensing and control is under counties - but the police arrest and take you to judiciary.

It should be county askari takes you to county courts - and you get sentenced strictly for communal services or maybe max of 3 months.

And this is what counties should be asking -NOT money. Ask for functions - and money will follow.

But BBI is not serious.

Yes 000's of petty inmates serving 3 months should show up to clean Nairobi River 2 days a week. Instead of clogging GK prison. But that sounds like prison service stuff not plea bargain. Instead of locking up a drug trafficker for 10 years - prosecutor has leeway to halve the sentence provided they surrender the proceeds, volunteer info on fellow criminals, etc. Big fish are nailed easy as mules turn on them for reduced sentence.

[Nefertiti]

None of the governors or LSK or NGOs proposed that. It sounds easy to fix. You don't need BBI for that just pass laws to devolve justice system. Kenya judiciary is not devolved with fake county high court - was it a mistake or any sound reasoning?

Devolution of justice, plea bargain, community service to decongest courts - can be done by law. It a matter of vision and push. I think it not in Maraga or LSK interest to devolve courts - CoG should be pushing it? - which is unlikely as they don't suffer for it. Who really feel the judicial pinch to push? That the problem I think. Everyone care for themselves.

What do you mean same standards. The functions are devolved. Counties decide what punishment is for alcohol drinking. These are BY-LAWS. These by-laws courts should be below magistrate - and you have usual appeal mechanism.

Otherwise what exactly are MCA doing passing laws? Counties need their own police and court systems; to deal with county issues. They have county police force kind of - but they cannot take you to court. Most resort to just beating people or buying police to accompany them. Only Nairobi has court in City Hall.

And county issues by nature should be small issues - small crimes like being drunk and disorderly - should not be in Maraga court.

I think problem lies in need for standard or equal justice. Should illicit brewer get same treatment in Nairobi and Kiambu? The line between LEGAL powers - cause then do the county courts enforce county laws or national laws? BBI is Raila manifesto stop obsessing with it - noone argue it a big national cause but Raila blank checkbook.

Once you draw the clear line of national vs county jurisdiction- it Senate turf to do that - set or manage the standard among the counties. Senate has underperformed in my all-the-way-here eyes.

I think it's magistrate who decided - prisons cannot decide. It's parliament who should make it clear that these little misdemeanors should not be custodial - but strictly community sentencing. The prison should build capacity - so they can supervise the sentencing and correction services - and we also need to devolve part of the judiciary - like we had done to parliament (MCA) and executive (county gov).

These small crimes should be tried by county courts - appointed and supervised by counties. Now we have situation where counties pass by-laws but cannot enforce it. It's ridicolous.

Take alcohol for example - licensing and control is under counties - but the police arrest and take you to judiciary.

It should be county askari takes you to county courts - and you get sentenced strictly for communal services or maybe max of 3 months.

And this is what counties should be asking -NOT money. Ask for functions - and money will follow.

But BBI is not serious.

Yes 000's of petty inmates serving 3 months should show up to clean Nairobi River 2 days a week. Instead of clogging GK prison. But that sounds like prison service stuff not plea bargain. Instead of locking up a drug trafficker for 10 years - prosecutor has leeway to halve the sentence provided they surrender the proceeds, volunteer info on fellow criminals, etc. Big fish are nailed easy as mules turn on them for reduced sentence.

[RV Pundit]

Obviously it will take a visionary like Ruto to do this. Counties and MCA know the laws they pass are useless. Those by-laws right now need to be brought to Nairobi and gazetted to become law. I doubt even one has been gazetted. So MCAs are now contractors for counties. All they do is pass budget and vet or threaten governors with impeachment.

Meanwhile the court system is clogged with 1m useless criminal cases - meanwhile many poor families are driven to poverty more by court cases - than say disease - because once they arrest a poor man for drunk or disordery or touting or stealing - they go to prison - or have to sell their cow - to bring them out.

The prison is clogged - and they are producing worse criminals than they took. This make bad situation worse. A small time thief or tout come out a  gay murderer. These are people who should never end in prison - for just getting a little drunk or stealing bananas. They just be sweeping streets.

None of the governors or LSK or NGOs proposed that. It sounds easy to fix. You don't need BBI for that just pass laws to devolve justice system. Kenya judiciary is not devolved with fake county high court - was it a mistake or any sound reasoning?

Devolution of justice, plea bargain, community service to decongest courts - can be done by law. It a matter of vision and push. I think it not in Maraga or LSK interest to devolve courts - CoG should be pushing it? - which is unlikely as they don't suffer for it. Who really feel the judicial pinch to push? That the problem I think. Everyone care for themselves.