Njamba - there was actually no kikuyu in upper kiambu

[Arcadian_Dreamer]

In addition to ogieks/bushmen & pygmies/gumbas, there is a Cushitic element in most Nilotic and Bantu tribes in Kenya. We are very diverse genetically, much more so than other Africans. Kenya is a crossroads space. Maasais, surprisingly have some Neanderthal DNA, attesting to a non African element in them. 

[Nowayhaha]

You're either Dorobo or recent Muranga immigrant.

https://books.google.ch/books?id=KFXnG8fTUYcC&pg=PA618&lpg=PA618&dq=Dorobo+of+Kiambu+tigoni+limuru&source=bl&ots=ZK_Bkthg5g&sig=ACfU3U3Y_IDtu8YoAi71f8b_Vqfl_U9dFw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij2rH824TtAhVPzaQKHUJPCZcQ6AEwGXoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=Dorobo%20of%20Kiambu%20tigoni%20limuru&f=false

RV , If the same concept is used Uasin Ngishu is actually Sirikwas  rest are immigrants.

[Nowayhaha]

So your grandparents emigrated to Kiambu. What is % of dorobo remain in Kiambu blood. I have seen typical dorobo - short and brown with small bodies - in many kiambu people - and very mean - and also love booze. That to me is Ndorobo blood...I bet they also own dogs, love honey and hunting.

Naturally dorobos are like those native americans - very retrogressive  people - and even in kalenjin - they are derided - they are not very progressive people. They have no idea why you should do all that hard work when you can just go out there and hunt for breakfast

ALL Kikuyus outside of Muranga are immigrants in new lands. All my great grandparents were immigrants from Muranga. Even today I have relations from my dad side that live in Muranga.

 That side actually is where my activism comes from. Most uncles from muranga are very progressive people. One of them controlled the lower eastern Matatu business, the other was DCIO of Central

The one that I actually inherited his gene, owns about 5 plots hapo eastleigh. He was a county clerk in muranga during colonial times. He is alleged to have stolen 90K in 1960 since he was an accountant he cooked the books and then left the job. The colonial govt took him to court but couldn't prove their case. He used the loot to by a bus and the property in Eastleigh. He has since died but on my way here I went to his location and he gave me 2K. He loved life though. Always operated a big night club and I bet he had a lot of women.

Truth of the matter Kenyans are of mixed genes .It wont be surprising to find RV your dominant gene is of either Dorobo or Luo and you are here calling them retrogressive people .

[RV Pundit]

Will that make them progressive. Ogiek like Maasai are retrogressive..refusing to adapt to changes of modern life. Maasai are now like famous Sirikwas..going extinct. A small community like Kikuyu whose land was just around muranga has expanded into many maasai land - right from nairobi, many parts of kiambu, entire nyandarua, parts of laikipia and nakuru...and also now narok and kajiado. Kamba have taken over many parts of Maasai land including kilimambogo. Kalenjin the same. Ogiek definitely won't exist for long.

How did Kikuyu multiply to become kenya largest tribe - while Maasai regressed from being kenya largest - to now one smallest tribes - simple - kikuyu quickly adopted British modern life - multiplied - while Maasai stuck to old era - and withered.

Truth of the matter Kenyans are of mixed genes .It wont be surprising to find RV your dominant gene is of either Dorobo or Luo and you are here calling them retrogressive people .

[KenyanPlato]

Will that make them progressive. Ogiek like Maasai are retrogressive..refusing to adapt to changes of modern life. Maasai are now like famous Sirikwas..going extinct. A small community like Kikuyu whose land was just around muranga has expanded into many maasai land - right from nairobi, many parts of kiambu, entire nyandarua, parts of laikipia and nakuru...and also now narok and kajiado. Kamba have taken over many parts of Maasai land including kilimambogo. Kalenjin the same. Ogiek definitely won't exist for long.

How did Kikuyu multiply to become kenya largest tribe - while Maasai regressed from being kenya largest - to now one smallest tribes - simple - kikuyu quickly adopted British modern life - multiplied - while Maasai stuck to old era - and withered.

Truth of the matter Kenyans are of mixed genes .It wont be surprising to find RV your dominant gene is of either Dorobo or Luo and you are here calling them retrogressive people .

Kikuyu are expansionist tribe by Nature. Our founding place was Mbeere "mukuru wa Nyagathanga" this is according to Dr Muriuki's research. We moved to Murang'a, Kiambu and another group moved to Nyeri. Now young professionals in my village are buying land in Malindi. Kikuyus never stop and they never look back once they find a place they can settle with least resistance. I bet you bythe end of this century most of the coast areas will have lots of kikuyus. The only good thing is that the rich kikuyus are having less kids or no kids at all.

The problem is the mungiki type poor kikuyu that is still breeding like a rat. This is the one that has to move all the country in search of land

[RV Pundit]

What expansion - kikuyu entire territory was walkable by foot on a single day. Maasai and Somali have an almost Mzungu like wandering spirit. Maasa you'll find walking barefoot past Kampala; selling drugs and hitchhiking. The same with Somalis. They are free spirited nomads..who can roam the world..without care. Kikuyus are attached to the ground..they will try to ground themselves as soon as they can and stick there.

Maasai at their apex owned land from Lake Tanganyika to Lake Turkana. From Mombasa to Mt Elgon. That IS HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Kikuyu are expansionist tribe by Nature. Our founding place was Mbeere "mukuru wa Nyagathanga" this is according to Dr Muriuki's research. We moved to Murang'a, Kiambu and another group moved to Nyeri. Now young professionals in my village are buying land in Malindi. Kikuyus never stop and they never look back once they find a place they can settle with least resistance. I bet you bythe end of this century most of the coast areas will have lots of kikuyus. The only good thing is that the rich kikuyus are having less kids or no kids at all.

The problem is the mungiki type poor kikuyu that is still breeding like a rat. This is the one that has to move all the country in search of land

[KenyanPlato]

What expansion - kikuyu entire territory was walkable by foot on a single day. Maasai and Somali have an almost Mzungu like wandering spirit. Maasa you'll find walking barefoot past Kampala; selling drugs and hitchhiking. The same with Somalis. They are free spirited nomads..who can roam the world..without care. Kikuyus are attached to the ground..they will try to ground themselves as soon as they can and stick there.

Maasai at their apex owned land from Lake Tanganyika to Lake Turkana. From Mombasa to Mt Elgon. That IS HUGEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Kikuyu are expansionist tribe by Nature. Our founding place was Mbeere "mukuru wa Nyagathanga" this is according to Dr Muriuki's research. We moved to Murang'a, Kiambu and another group moved to Nyeri. Now young professionals in my village are buying land in Malindi. Kikuyus never stop and they never look back once they find a place they can settle with least resistance. I bet you bythe end of this century most of the coast areas will have lots of kikuyus. The only good thing is that the rich kikuyus are having less kids or no kids at all.

The problem is the mungiki type poor kikuyu that is still breeding like a rat. This is the one that has to move all the country in search of land

In the last 100 years Kikuyus have expanded territory without firing a shot

[RV Pundit]

More like Kenyatta Jomo using political power to take over British white highlands.

In the last 100 years Kikuyus have expanded territory without firing a shot

[KenyanPlato]

More like Kenyatta Jomo using political power to take over British white highlands.

In the last 100 years Kikuyus have expanded territory without firing a shot

How do you explain the recent take over of Maa land all the way to Isinya by Kikuyus?

[RV Pundit]

But are you really taking over - or flipping land. You sell 1/2 in kiambu, buy 10 acres in Maa land, sub-divide into plots, and sell it, and move deeper; But if you go to those areas, its gusiis, luhyas, name them who actually buy the 1/8 and build.

How do you explain the recent take over of Maa land all the way to Isinya by Kikuyus?

[KenyanPlato]

But are you really taking over - or flipping land. You sell 1/2 in kiambu, buy 10 acres in Maa land, sub-divide into plots, and sell it, and move deeper; But if you go to those areas, its gusiis, luhyas, name them who actually buy the 1/8 and build.

How do you explain the recent take over of Maa land all the way to Isinya by Kikuyus?

Nope some are buying land for farming.

[RV Pundit]

Very few; majority are into buying large land and selling it as plots; and kikuyus are becoming minority in Nairobi metro - at least Kajiado and machakos; Gusii are the main ones buying 1/8s. In a decade - there might be more Gusii Mps - in 'diaspora' than in Gusii - I think now they have 2 out of 10. I see them winning some in Machakos and Kajiado soon.

Nope some are buying land for farming.

[Nowayhaha]

RV, Weve been here before , I have several questions for you

Q1. Dont you think partitioning of Africa by Europeans affected the social unity of Maasai ?
Q2. Between Bantus and Nomadic pastoralists who do you think are at a higher risk of contacting diseases ?
Q3 .Bantus form of expansion was assimilation where as Nilotic was more of displacement between the two who would have have a big population ?
Q4. Which requires more labour , tilling the land or herding cattle ?
Q5. what for you is the final solution to end tribalism in Kenya , Intermarrying between tribes or marrying within tribes ?

[RV Pundit]

Africa formal partion - happened in late 19th century - and unofficially - began around 1850 - I think British took over Mombasa that early - but could not venture inside.

Infact after checking - British took over Mombasa - and whole of Zanzibar - from 1820s.

They couldn't venture inwards because Maasai were too strong. Maasai basically occupied Kenya. Remember until early 20th century - British gun was of minimal use - it was not automaticaly re-loading - so the warriors would catch you dead why trying to re-load. Arabs had brought guns but they knew their effectiveness was limited. At coast - you could shell it with canons and all - but hinterland - that would take huge army.

Secondly understand by Big - we are talking maybe 200,000. Africa population including that of Bantus were small. African life was short, brutish and horrible.

The biggest problem was child and all sort of mortality. It was impossible according to my grandmother to find a family of 4 kids - most kids would die - from all the diseases we now take from granted. The life expectancy maybe was 35-40yrs.

So Maasai were the most popolous occupying a large territory -  in a mostly "empty" country - with more wildlife than humans.

Kenya population by 1900 is estimated at around 1M.  Rose sharply to 6M by 1950s. 8M by 1962 and now is 50M!!!!!

The families or communities that embraced British - started going to hospitals - and getting modern medicine - started seeing 5 -10 kids  - unheard of in Africa. Then some started even getting 15 kids - and that is how current population rose.

So population of say Kikuyus shot from maybe 200K to 1M by time of indepedences. Nandis were estimated at 40k and so were kipsigis at 19th century. Nearly 'everyone" knew each other

RV, Weve been here before , I have several questions for you

Q1. Dont you think partitioning of Africa by Europeans affected the social unity of Maasai ?
Q2. Between Bantus and Nomadic pastoralists who do you think are at a higher risk of contacting diseases ?
Q3 .Bantus form of expansion was assimilation where as Nilotic was more of displacement between the two who would have have a big population ?
Q4. Which requires more labour , tilling the land or herding cattle ?
Q5. what for you is the final solution to end tribalism in Kenya , Intermarrying between tribes or marrying within tribes ?

[Nowayhaha]

RV , why I asked the questions in point form is because I know how you mix things with half truths until focus on the subject is lost . Could you please answer the questions , a one liner will do .Otherwise we will digress and find ourselves talking about Pharaoh in Egypt.

Africa formal partion - happened in late 19th century - and unofficially - began around 1850 - I think British took over Mombasa that early - but could not venture inside.

Infact after checking - British took over Mombasa - and whole of Zanzibar - from 1820s.

They couldn't venture inwards because Maasai were too strong. Maasai basically occupied Kenya. Remember until early 20th century - British gun was of minimal use - it was not automaticaly re-loading - so the warriors would catch you dead why trying to re-load. Arabs had brought guns but they knew their effectiveness was limited. At coast - you could shell it with canons and all - but hinterland - that would take huge army.

Secondly understand by Big - we are talking maybe 200,000. Africa population including that of Bantus were small. African life was short, brutish and horrible.

The biggest problem was child and all sort of mortality. It was impossible according to my grandmother to find a family of 4 kids - most kids would die - from all the diseases we now take from granted. The life expectancy maybe was 35-40yrs.

So Maasai were the most popolous occupying a large territory -  in a mostly "empty" country - with more wildlife than humans.

Kenya population by 1900 is estimated at around 1M.  Rose sharply to 6M by 1950s. 8M by 1962 and now is 50M!!!!!

The families or communities that embraced British - started going to hospitals - and getting modern medicine - started seeing 5 -10 kids  - unheard of in Africa. Then some started even getting 15 kids - and that is how current population rose.

So population of say Kikuyus shot from maybe 200K to 1M by time of indepedences. Nandis were estimated at 40k and so were kipsigis at 19th century. Nearly 'everyone" knew each other

RV, Weve been here before , I have several questions for you

Q1. Dont you think partitioning of Africa by Europeans affected the social unity of Maasai ?
Q2. Between Bantus and Nomadic pastoralists who do you think are at a higher risk of contacting diseases ?
Q3 .Bantus form of expansion was assimilation where as Nilotic was more of displacement between the two who would have have a big population ?
Q4. Which requires more labour , tilling the land or herding cattle ?
Q5. what for you is the final solution to end tribalism in Kenya , Intermarrying between tribes or marrying within tribes ?

[RV Pundit]

I choose how I answer and reply to questions. AND I NEVER DO THOSE ONE LINER reply spawning many threads. It just isn't my style. It's pretty horrible actually - the kind that Omollo love to engage in. Summarize and move on. This is Nipate.

I think I have done my job. Obviously you come here with half-ar.sed stories and we send you back to school. Pick some history book for starters.

RV , why I asked the questions in point form is because I know how you mix things with half truths until focus on the subject is lost . Could you please answer the questions , a one liner will do .Otherwise we will digress and find ourselves talking about Pharaoh in Egypt.

[Nowayhaha]

I choose how I answer and reply to questions. AND I NEVER DO THOSE ONE LINER reply spawning many threads. It just isn't my style. It's pretty horrible actually - the kind that Omollo love to engage in. Summarize and move on. This is Nipate.

I think I have done my job. Obviously you come here with half-ar.sed stories and we send you back to school. Pick some history book for starters.

RV , why I asked the questions in point form is because I know how you mix things with half truths until focus on the subject is lost . Could you please answer the questions , a one liner will do .Otherwise we will digress and find ourselves talking about Pharaoh in Egypt.

When it comes to history tou always tend to twist it in such a manner that it drives a certain point this being that Kikuyu didnt dominate Kenya wince time memorial.
Its very obvious you did your history back in 90s and in an environment of anti Kikuyusm . The theory you try to advance that only Maasai inhabited Kenya is flawed. This is the same history  colonialsts were trying to use to discredit the Mau Mau.

Yes in the same arguments you give some half truths but thats just it..
It very funny tou say how Maasai were dorminant in one statement due to their foem of living but fail to acknowledge that its that same form of living which braugh diseases and affected them together with their livestock.
You tend to put a blind eye that Bantus are also dorminant in the other East Arican countries Uganda and Tanzania because of their form of living.. Its a fact its not coincident..

Now tell me at indipendence what was population of Maasai in Kenya and Tanzania ?

[RV Pundit]

You're funny. Nobody knew about Kikuyus until 1950s.
Maasai were know far and wide before arrival of British.
What dominance? Uganda? - check the map again - see who own the largest land mass.
Even in Rwanda and Western Uganda - Nilotic or Cushitic Tutsi dominated Bantus like nothing.
Check Kenya - Bantus occupy very little land.
The reality is Bantu stood no chance against Nilotes and Cushites.
They only dominated Khoisans.
Thankfully there is tsetse belt run right across kenya/TZ border - that starts all the way from Senagal to Mombasa.
That tsetse belt shielded Bantus from invasion of war like tribes of the north.
Cows never could do well in that belt - lake victoria  - Luo Nyanza - labwe valley - all the way.

Bantus and their cousins in west Africa - thrive below the tse tse fly belt - where agricluture was practised.
Up north - it become a little hot - with war like tribes.

There is small corridor in Tanzania - arusha - that had cows go down to South Africa.

When it comes to history tou always tend to twist it in such a manner that it drives a certain point this being that Kikuyu didnt dominate Kenya wince time memorial.
Its very obvious you did your history back in 90s and in an environment of anti Kikuyusm . The theory you try to advance that only Maasai inhabited Kenya is flawed. This is the same history  colonialsts were trying to use to discredit the Mau Mau.

Yes in the same arguments you give some half truths but thats just it..
It very funny tou say how Maasai were dorminant in one statement due to their foem of living but fail to acknowledge that its that same form of living which braugh diseases and affected them together with their livestock.
You tend to put a blind eye that Bantus are also dorminant in the other East Arican countries Uganda and Tanzania because of their form of living.. Its a fact its not coincident..

Now tell me at indipendence what was population of Maasai in Kenya and Tanzania ?

[Nowayhaha]

You're funny. Nobody knew about Kikuyus until 1950s.
Maasai were know far and wide before arrival of British.
What dominance? Uganda? - check the map again - see who own the largest land mass.
Even in Rwanda and Western Uganda - Nilotic or Cushitic Tutsi dominated Bantus like nothing.
Check Kenya - Bantus occupy very little land.
The reality is Bantu stood no chance against Nilotes and Cushites.
They only dominated Khoisans.
Thankfully there is tsetse belt run right across kenya/TZ border - that starts all the way from Senagal to Mombasa.
That tsetse belt shielded Bantus from invasion of war like tribes of the north.
Cows never could do well in that belt - lake victoria  - Luo Nyanza - labwe valley - all the way.

Bantus and their cousins in west Africa - thrive below the tse tse fly belt - where agricluture was practised.
Up north - it become a little hot - with war like tribes.

There is small corridor in Tanzania - arusha - that had cows go down to South Africa.

When it comes to history tou always tend to twist it in such a manner that it drives a certain point this being that Kikuyu didnt dominate Kenya wince time memorial.
Its very obvious you did your history back in 90s and in an environment of anti Kikuyusm . The theory you try to advance that only Maasai inhabited Kenya is flawed. This is the same history  colonialsts were trying to use to discredit the Mau Mau.

Yes in the same arguments you give some half truths but thats just it..
It very funny tou say how Maasai were dorminant in one statement due to their foem of living but fail to acknowledge that its that same form of living which braugh diseases and affected them together with their livestock.
You tend to put a blind eye that Bantus are also dorminant in the other East Arican countries Uganda and Tanzania because of their form of living.. Its a fact its not coincident..

Now tell me at indipendence what was population of Maasai in Kenya and Tanzania ?

But the Mzungu knew about Kenyatta and KCA Kikuyu Central association as early as 1927. You betray yourself so good in knowledge but skew it for self interest.. you will start to make us question your current analysis.
But then again I have to remember you fought with your school teacher for thinking he is dumb., then your the first to criticise Magoha for low EQ. You are in the same category.

Now go back to what you have written,  Bantus occuppy agricultural land, and as you say the form of living nomadic pastoralists practice lead to their demise. Isnt it the same issues we raised earlier and as usual with history you meander left and tight with half truths then conclude with matusi

[RV Pundit]

If you study history pre-1927 - kikuyus were a small footnote in kenya - leave alone regional history.
Maasai reputation as warriors travelled far and wide.
The Arabs slave and ivory traders had told the world about Maasai long before 17th century.
Nearly every tribe within the region knew about Maasai - for their reputation for warfare was truly unmatched.
And with that they acquired a lot of land and cattle (wealth);
So much they basically declared all cattle theirs for taking.

But the Mzungu knew about Kenyatta and KCA Kikuyu Central association as early as 1927. You betray yourself so good in knowledge but skew it for self interest.. you will start to make us question your current analysis.
But then again I have to remember you fought with your school teacher for thinking he is dumb., then your the first to criticise Magoha for low EQ. You are in the same category.

Now go back to what you have written,  Bantus occuppy agricultural land, and as you say the form of living nomadic pastoralists practice lead to their demise. Isnt it the same issues we raised earlier and as usual with history you meander left and tight with half truths then conclude with matusi