How Pastors Get Rich before Dyin Tryin

[vooke]

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http://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html

[bittertruth]

We may have some who are out to get rich, but these have received their reward from God.
But we also have faithful servants of God out there.
I don't  see any problem with getting donations from the wilful congregation to buy a pastor a car or something.  Even pagans do the same.
This is a hoax written by Satanists in an effort to delude Gods congregations not offer tithes, offerings etc.

http://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html

[vooke]

They are not telling you not to give, just not to waste your hard earned bucks on charlatans.
Combating pious fraud is not Satanism sir!
You are a coder and I suggest you apply the same level of intellect in examining these things instead of superstition

We may have some who are out to get rich, but these have received their reward from God.
But we also have faithful servants of God out there.
I don't  see any problem with getting donations from the wilful congregation to buy a pastor a car or something.  Even pagans do the same.
This is a hoax written by Satanists in an effort to delude Gods congregations not offer tithes, offerings etc.

http://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html

[bittertruth]

vooke, Your view unilateral and doesn't see if there are faithful servants who are justly successful.  So according to you the Meyers and Osteens are charlatans?

They are not telling you not to give, just not to waste your hard earned bucks on charlatans.
Combating pious fraud is not Satanism sir!
You are a coder and I suggest you apply the same level of intellect in examining these things instead of superstition

We may have some who are out to get rich, but these have received their reward from God.
But we also have faithful servants of God out there.
I don't  see any problem with getting donations from the wilful congregation to buy a pastor a car or something.  Even pagans do the same.
This is a hoax written by Satanists in an effort to delude Gods congregations not offer tithes, offerings etc.

http://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html

[vooke]

bittertruth,
I don't know about their wealth so I can't comment. If a minister engages in biashara Myles Munroe style, talks, seminars, books and rakes mullah, I can't argue with that. But if your primary wealth source is offerings & tithes, you are not successful whatsoever

vooke, Your view unilateral and doesn't see if there are faithful servants who are justly successful.  So according to you the Meyers and Osteens are charlatans?

[kadame]

And I've never heard Miles Munroe spending endless sermons concentrating on wealth, either. Just saying. Once in a while is excusable, but if the central message of a minister is wealth, iko chida.

[vooke]

kadame,
Myles Munroe in 1990 preached at Asuza Conference on Purpose and that has been the basis of his ministry. That's one great negro

you know Paul worked hard outside evangelism to maintain himself and to avoid dependence? One thing I observed early on among Catholics, the priests doubled as teachers. I have tons of misgivings on Catholicism but trust me to give credit where due. Of course serving God may necessarily entail abandoning other profitable vocations and in that state, we are expected to support these  people. I don't have no problem with that.

Where it gets hazy is when these ministers who left all to follow Christ parade their wealth (from tithes and offerings) as some kind of achievement. What am I supposed to do to sail in such wealth? Start a church as well? . That model can't be replicated in every member of the congregation, so they are better off not gloating. may be that's why Pentecostal churches keep on splitting

 The problem with preaching wealth is it is a lie and God does not back up lies. It breeds frustrated negroes who imagine that God has delayed. It distorsts our relationship with God

And I've never heard Miles Munroe spending endless sermons concentrating on wealth, either. Just saying. Once in a while is excusable, but if the central message of a minister is wealth, iko chida.

[Brynn]

A pastor should be able to connect with the social aspects of his congregation. Naturally Beverly Hills 90210 pastors are mega-rich as were all the sons of the tribe of Levi according to the state of the Nation of Israel at that time.

[kadame]

kadame,
Myles Munroe in 1990 preached at Asuza Conference on Purpose and that has been the basis of his ministry. That's one great negro

you know Paul worked hard outside evangelism to maintain himself and to avoid dependence? One thing I observed early on among Catholics, the priests doubled as teachers. I have tons of misgivings on Catholicism but trust me to give credit where due. Of course serving God may necessarily entail abandoning other profitable vocations and in that state, we are expected to support these  people. I don't have no problem with that.

Where it gets hazy is when these ministers who left all to follow Christ parade their wealth (from tithes and offerings) as some kind of achievement. What am I supposed to do to sail in such wealth? Start a church as well? . That model can't be replicated in every member of the congregation, so they are better off not gloating. may be that's why Pentecostal churches keep on splitting

 The problem with preaching wealth is it is a lie and God does not back up lies. It breeds frustrated negroes who imagine that God has delayed. It distorsts our relationship with God

And I've never heard Miles Munroe spending endless sermons concentrating on wealth, either. Just saying. Once in a while is excusable, but if the central message of a minister is wealth, iko chida.

 I like Dr. Munroe because he is a simple down to earth preacher, plus he doesn't get into a lot of theatrics like many AA. He's well educated, call me a snub, but I think education makes a difference and it shows, though of course character and commitment are more important. There's a reason Paul wrote half the New Testament by himself, while the others, played almost background role. Which is another thing. I asked this question on a religion forum, if all protestants believe the prosperity gospel, and I got a ton of replies saying absolutely No. Its only that lots of people with airtime are in the prosperity camp so it looks like the majority but it is not, and I was told many prominent Evangelical leaders like the leadership of the Assemblies of God have clearly spoken against it. I was made to understand that a good deal of the prosperity teachers have not received any theological training. I don't know if it is true, but in Kenya, it seems true. Those folks on TV are nearly all drop outs. They all got saved today and started their own church tomorrow, without even giving themselves an opportunity to mature first under other people. I always have serious misgivings about people who claim they want to start their own church from another one and then the church they start teaches the SAME stuff they got from their old church. Which makes you wonder if they left for any good reason or just selfishness. And even if you feel you are genuinely called to start your own church, shouldn't you first be a Christian for a while in fellowship with others before you start a church where you are the shepherd? 

[kadame]

I also don't like the prosperity message for the reason you cite in bold. Forgot to comment on that. It gives people false expectation that being a Christian is a ticket out of all the problems of this world. When they come, those problems, someone's faith can be completely destroyed if they do not adjust such beliefs. Because the problems instead of being an opportunity to grow in faith or trust in God, will turn into some sort of "proof" that Christianity is false or that I am unworthy to be Christian because I just lack faith no matter how wiling I am. I like Joyce Meyer though I hear she's in the prosperity camp, but for me, personally, I have not heard her misleading anyone. I have heard her tell Christians to persevere through hard times, trust in God, do their best with what they have etc etc. Since I left home I have not heard many of these preachers but when I was home, I used to hear them everyday, especially Joyce Meyer, couldn't miss her for nothing, coz she came everyday; and one whose name I forget (But he is completely bald, no hair, and teaches in practical ways.) I know he's popular like nothing, but I am not into Joseph Prince, so I cant say much though I hear he's in the Joyce Meyer/Joel Osteen camp.

[vooke]

Ruud babe you are damn right. We would not be having snow themes around CHristmas trees if Europe had tropical climate

You should watch Preachers of LA

A pastor should be able to connect with the social aspects of his congregation. Naturally Beverly Hills 90210 pastors are mega-rich as were all the sons of the tribe of Levi according to the state of the Nation of Israel at that time.

[vooke]

kadame,
this message cuts across protestanism. What varies are degrees. I don't want to turn this into a name-and-shame exercise so I avoided names. Then of course I know most teach this in ignorance.

There was a time I was a die-hard fan of Pastor Muiru. That season passed. Along came John Hagee especially after TBN Family Media landed. I haven't listened to him in like 7 years. Joel Osteen, I just get bored after the joke at the begining of his sermon. Joseph Prince is a Christian rapper. Noel Jones at some point really blessed me. TD Jakes I can't stomach. Used to then I just grew allergic. Joyce Meyer is a joy to listen to but I rarely get or make time for her.

I also don't like the prosperity message for the reason you cite in bold. Forgot to comment on that. It gives people false expectation that being a Christian is a ticket out of all the problems of this world. When they come, those problems, someone's faith can be completely destroyed if they do not adjust such beliefs. Because the problems instead of being an opportunity to grow in faith or trust in God, will turn into some sort of "proof" that Christianity is false or that I am unworthy to be Christian because I just lack faith no matter how wiling I am. I like Joyce Meyer though I hear she's in the prosperity camp, but for me, personally, I have not heard her misleading anyone. I have heard her tell Christians to persevere through hard times, trust in God, do their best with what they have etc etc. Since I left home I have not heard many of these preachers but when I was home, I used to hear them everyday, especially Joyce Meyer, couldn't miss her for nothing, coz she came everyday; and one whose name I forget (But he is completely bald, no hair, and teaches in practical ways.) I know he's popular like nothing, but I am not into Joseph Prince, so I cant say much though I hear he's in the Joyce Meyer/Joel Osteen camp.

[bittertruth]

vooke, what do you make of this verse? 1cori 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

[bittertruth]

so according to Kababe Faith = False expectation.
You remember Jesus teaching on faith. That nothing is impossible for Him if we believe?
This doctrine you propagate is poison. It shows that God is incapable.
When was your life better, with or without Christ and why?

I also don't like the prosperity message for the reason you cite in bold. Forgot to comment on that. It gives people false expectation that being a Christian is a ticket out of all the problems of this world. When they come, those problems, someone's faith can be completely destroyed if they do not adjust such beliefs. Because the problems instead of being an opportunity to grow in faith or trust in God, will turn into some sort of "proof" that Christianity is false or that I am unworthy to be Christian because I just lack faith no matter how wiling I am. I like Joyce Meyer though I hear she's in the prosperity camp, but for me, personally, I have not heard her misleading anyone. I have heard her tell Christians to persevere through hard times, trust in God, do their best with what they have etc etc. Since I left home I have not heard many of these preachers but when I was home, I used to hear them everyday, especially Joyce Meyer, couldn't miss her for nothing, coz she came everyday; and one whose name I forget (But he is completely bald, no hair, and teaches in practical ways.) I know he's popular like nothing, but I am not into Joseph Prince, so I cant say much though I hear he's in the Joyce Meyer/Joel Osteen camp.

[vooke]

It means ministers of the gospel ought to be supported. THis is why Jesus aksd the disciples to carry nothing while on their evengelism; He expected them to be received and hosted

vooke, what do you make of this verse? 1cori 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

[kadame]

Jesus never promised material wealth to anyone. Those expectations are created by people, not God. Jesus promised us eternal life and that he would always be with us and never leave us, and that God would always take care of us. He never promised us mansions, cars, jets and so forth. The only mansions he promised are in heaven. So I do have faith God will take care of me and takes care of me. I have this faith based on what God says but also based on my experience. Yes, before I was miserable. I had all sorts of problems that God has taken from me. I think if I went a different direction in my teens I may probably not be alive today. But I have faith God is my provider. I don't have "faith" that God will give me any particular earthly things just because I want. Some things I want are not good for me. Some things are good for me. Thank God he doesn't trust my puny wisdom when he gives me anything but instead does according to his own infinite wisdom.

so according to Kababe Faith = False expectation.
You remember Jesus teaching on faith. That nothing is impossible for Him if we believe?
This doctrine you propagate is poison. It shows that God is incapable.
When was your life better, with or without Christ and why?

I also don't like the prosperity message for the reason you cite in bold. Forgot to comment on that. It gives people false expectation that being a Christian is a ticket out of all the problems of this world. When they come, those problems, someone's faith can be completely destroyed if they do not adjust such beliefs. Because the problems instead of being an opportunity to grow in faith or trust in God, will turn into some sort of "proof" that Christianity is false or that I am unworthy to be Christian because I just lack faith no matter how wiling I am. I like Joyce Meyer though I hear she's in the prosperity camp, but for me, personally, I have not heard her misleading anyone. I have heard her tell Christians to persevere through hard times, trust in God, do their best with what they have etc etc. Since I left home I have not heard many of these preachers but when I was home, I used to hear them everyday, especially Joyce Meyer, couldn't miss her for nothing, coz she came everyday; and one whose name I forget (But he is completely bald, no hair, and teaches in practical ways.) I know he's popular like nothing, but I am not into Joseph Prince, so I cant say much though I hear he's in the Joyce Meyer/Joel Osteen camp.

[vooke]

bittertruth,
God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we can aks or think. No doubt sir!
This thread is not about God's abilities. If God wills, He can wipe away pain,suffering and poverty off the face of the earth in a flash. What is factual is He does not or He hasn't yet.

Poverty like pain,suffering and death is a consequence of the fall of man and it will always be here as long as we remain in this fallen creation. I may not with Paul's spiritual eloquence explain why poverty is still here with us, what I can openly and readily refute is imputing foreign ideas to the scriptures.

There are many Christians who have faith in God's healing power though they are yet to witness it. vooke is one such. A few months ago, a negro lost his baby to cancer. We prayed and waited but guess what, God heals whenever,wherever and whomever He wills. God equally prospers whomever He wills. Prosperity is not your right as a child of God in the same manner as the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Some get wealthy some dont

so according to Kababe Faith = False expectation.
You remember Jesus teaching on faith. That nothing is impossible for Him if we believe?
This doctrine you propagate is poison. It shows that God is incapable.
When was your life better, with or without Christ and why?

[bittertruth]

vooke,Am sincerely sorry for the demise. Now, Whereas I agree that God has favour on whomever He wills, how we live in this life  determines to a greater extend how God responds to our needs. God can avert or enforce a drastic measures as suffering  in our lives for a reason. I always remember Hezekiahs prayer on how he reacted when he received news of his death, and how his prayer touched the Heart of God and how God reconsindered His decision and added him 15 yrs of life.
No body likes to perish in poverty either. But in the face of sufferings, our behaviours determines Gods next course of action. To the complacent, God is also complacent, but to those whose strive for positive change , God is faithful and rewards in commensurate to their faith. God fair and  just.
The word " prosperity gospel" was not coined by evangelicals. Please research and trace its roots.

What evangelicals believe is that Gods word has solutions to all aspects of life. The word teaches, admonishes, corrects. 
 
 

bittertruth,
God is able to do exceeding abundantly above all we can aks or think. No doubt sir!
This thread is not about God's abilities. If God wills, He can wipe away pain,suffering and poverty off the face of the earth in a flash. What is factual is He does not or He hasn't yet.

Poverty like pain,suffering and death is a consequence of the fall of man and it will always be here as long as we remain in this fallen creation. I may not with Paul's spiritual eloquence explain why poverty is still here with us, what I can openly and readily refute is imputing foreign ideas to the scriptures.

There are many Christians who have faith in God's healing power though they are yet to witness it. vooke is one such. A few months ago, a negro lost his baby to cancer. We prayed and waited but guess what, God heals whenever,wherever and whomever He wills. God equally prospers whomever He wills. Prosperity is not your right as a child of God in the same manner as the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Some get wealthy some dont

so according to Kababe Faith = False expectation.
You remember Jesus teaching on faith. That nothing is impossible for Him if we believe?
This doctrine you propagate is poison. It shows that God is incapable.
When was your life better, with or without Christ and why?

[vooke]

bittertruth,
There is no guaranteed and permanent solution to poverty,disease,suffering and death in the scriptures. These will be done away with at the very END. Poverty among Christians is a FACT of life. Some will ALWAYS be poor regardless of what they do.

Evangelicals would do well to wake up to this reality instead of hawking pie in the sky to the gullible

vooke,Am sincerely sorry for the demise. Now, Whereas I agree that God has favour on whomever He wills, how we live in this life  determines to a greater extend how God responds to our needs. God can avert or enforce a drastic measures as suffering  in our lives for a reason. I always remember Hezekiahs prayer on how he reacted when he received news of his death, and how his prayer touched the Heart of God and how God reconsindered His decision and added him 15 yrs of life.
No body likes to perish in poverty either. But in the face of sufferings, our behaviours determines Gods next course of action. To the complacent, God is also complacent, but to those whose strive for positive change , God is faithful and rewards in commensurate to their faith. God fair and  just.
The word " prosperity gospel" was not coined by evangelicals. Please research and trace its roots.

What evangelicals believe is that Gods word has solutions to all aspects of life. The word teaches, admonishes, corrects. 

[bittertruth]

vooke, so if I was born poor I will simply die poor? That is according to what you imply above.
I believe that being poor yesterday doesn't equate to being poor tommorow. That's a lie and in contravention to christian faith sir!