Author Topic: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live  (Read 12785 times)

Offline Njuri Ncheke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2685
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2020, 08:15:41 AM »
[quote ] a civil war is worst case scenario[/quote]
Pundit you are sick.

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2020, 08:24:29 AM »
Okay, a president and his deputy fighting, is already a civil war.

You're living in a fools paradise.

In Nakuru District,
according to then PPO Wasike, the sheer numbers of the marauding gangs
heavily outnumbered the police and the Army was called in to assist in policing.
The Commission heard that there were very few police officers in the troubled
areas of Kambarari, Kaptembwa, Milima and Kiti, and that those who sought
help from police stations were told to resort to self help. The Commission was
further told that there were more than 100 idle police officers in their residential
houses within the town at Kasarani and thereafter they would be hired privately
at a going rate of between Ksh. 1,000 to Ksh. 2,000 per officer to assist with the
rescue of besieged people to safer areas.

[quote ] a civil war is worst case scenario.
Pundit you are sick.
[/quote]

Offline Nowayhaha

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7463
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2020, 08:25:51 AM »
Ruto from what I am hearing was deflated and seemed to be in pain to a point he had watery eyes. He can't take the humiliation anymore. The battle for kalenjins is going to be an uphill one. I do notxthink kalenjins will best served by a war. They ought to figure out how to work with others better. Ruto needs to learn how to build coalitions. He will get there by 2032. He is still young

I don't like the guy for reasons other than his tribe. It is his ambition to be PORK at any cost that worries me. Usually folks like that turn into maniacal dictators once in power. We already know he has a voracious for looting public money. Let Uhuru be the last GEMA president, tumechoka na watsapere, and let Moi be the last Kalenjin leader. We need new tribe to be at the helm. I don't care how he gets there, I want Raila Odinga to be our president in 2022.

You Raila fanatics are really funny , Whenever you pretend to describe Ruto you actually end up describing Raila .

Quote
It is his ambition to be PORK at any cost that worries me
No who between Ruto and Raila wants to become PORK at any cost - Lets go back to History
 Raila has vied for Presidency in 1997 ,2007,2013,2017 and now in 2022  a record 4 times and with terrible results - Ruto has never ever vied for PORK his first attempt will be in 2022
After Raila losing in 1997 elections he ran to Moi and folded his party NDP with the hopes MOI will endorse him as KANUs presidential candidate , when this did not happen he switched sides and supported Kibaki with plans of sabotaging and blackmailing him once elections were won .
Come 2007 elections after losing to Kibaki , he instigated a post election violence which almost brought Kenya to its Knees  - Now pray tell me is this not wanting power by all means
Post 2013 after losing elections , Raila lead the so called OKOA kenya Maandamano , which sent all electoral commissioners home in the hope he would be able to install his sympathizers and influence 2017 elections
After losing 2017 elections he went to courts and after courts declared a repeat elections he refused to participate , his plans was to discredit the 2017 repeat elections and form another Nusu mkate government luckliy he never got the backing he expected from foreign powers /circles .
Having failed in that he went and swore himself as a president  - Isnt this the epitome of  becoming "PORK at any cost ",  , at a cost of bring anarchy to Kenya , do you know this is called treason .
Now is he is back at it again for 2022 elections - He now want constitution to be amended for it to make it easier  for him to ascend to power , now if this is bo what you described as your worry then I dont know . Remember the same constitution he campaigned for and said let it be passed as it is  , its good enough - Then he though the constitution had given a direct pass to Presidency 
 
Sometimes it good to be direct , you have indicated you are tired of a Gema Presidency and you hate hate Kalenjin . stick to these points rather than pretending to be philosophical with the choice of your Raila presidency

Offline Njuri Ncheke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2685
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2020, 08:27:56 AM »
Okay, a president and his deputy fighting, is already a civil war.
[quote ] a civil war is worst case scenario.
Pundit you are sick.
[/quote]
NO one disagrees even a child in baby class knows that. The problem is you seem to be obsessed with civil war and conflicts. There is no winner in Such most affected by the way will be Kalenjin then Kikuyu. Stop negative energy.

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2020, 08:31:36 AM »
 :*I am not obsessed. I made my comment - and your scared titties made a meal out of it. Kenya is not special. Ethiopia,Somalia, Sudan, Uganda, Congo, Rwanda and Burundi have been here..only Tanzania and Kenya have spared.

If Uhuru is not wise (like Raila) - he will make kenya join the rest.

NO one disagrees even a child in baby class knows that. The problem is you seem to be obsessed with civil war and conflicts. There is no winner in Such most affected by the way will be Kalenjin then Kikuyu. Stop negative energy.

Offline Nowayhaha

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7463
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2020, 10:01:22 AM »
Kibaki biggest mistake was firing odm allied ministers from cabinet after losing 2005 referendum. He should have been magnanimous in defeat and negotiated with to adopt Bomas draft with a few changes. He make a mistake that cost him 2007 elections and caused pev.

If ruto can win a referendum then he would stop raila and Uhuru-Raila. I see Uhuru-Raila not going for referendum but very soft amendments that will appeal to the centrist and liberal side of jubilee. This amendments will be thru parliament and if they do not pass they will be a campaign platform..if this happens 2022 will be the referendum for or against these amendments. This will deflate the chance for a possible violent confrontation btw Uhuru-Raila supporters and militant kales..

Unlike Uhuru who has been known to make bad decisions only to rethink later - Kibaki did the right thing by firing LDP members after 2005 referendum actually he should not have allowed them to NAKs negotiating table prior to 2002 G.E. . Kibaki , Wamalwa and Ngilu had the right formulae under the previous constiruion which only required a simple majority and 25% in provinces to win the presidency -Raila and his group would have come in a distant third   , . Railas plan was to overthrow Kibaki , they didnt believe in Kibaki , Raila and his sympathizers saw themselves as the reformists and their time had come to govern Kenya .Essentially time for them to eat  . For them Kibaki had already eaten for 30 plus years .

According to Uhuru moves its evident he is gearing the country for a referendum , it beats all common sense to open up the country when Covid Cases were rising and deaths were rising ,when a month earlier he has shown all indications that as long as there was no improvement in the trajectory of covid cases the country would continue the same path of curfew and cessation of movement . I gather from their plans they want the Referendum as early as Dec2020  and latest March2021 .
Raila does not want to go to 2022 elections without a referendum and his worst fear is if 2022 elections are tied with the referendumn. One thing they are not factoring is there is a likely possibilty they are going to lose the referendum . Further Uhuru also thinks he might play Kibaki 2010 where he was able to whip The VP kalonzo . Deputy Premier Uhuru and Minister like Michuki to back him  by threatening them with sacking from their posts(Remember Kalonzo and Uhuru had to put a paid up advertisement in National newspapers voicing their support for constitution  . Even that time it didnt work out with Ruto he was eventually reshuffled to Ministry of Higher Education  . Then it worked out for Kalonzo because he though he would inherit  Kibakis electorate , for Uhuru he was in the plum Finance Ministry and was cutting deals left and right ,as for Michuki after being abandoned by Kalonzo and Uhuru he had to return to the yes side .  Now what is Ruto to lose if he has been kept out of bay from public coffers by the handshakers who are eating like no tomorrow as they know 2022  is approaching . In 2010 Ruto used the referendumn to consolidate Rift Valley vote , the upcomming referendum he will use it to consolidate the Mt Kenya voting block ,then come 2022  Raila fanatics will be saying Kura iliibiwa

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2020, 10:21:54 AM »
Nowayaha,

1) Kibaki was abandoned en-masse by Mt Kenya immediately Moi endorsed Uhuru. Kiambu and a whole 1/3 of GEMA still voted for Uhuru and KANU in the main election.

2) Raila saved Kibaki - otherwise KANU would have won - with possibly Nyachae-Raila and Kibaki-Wamalwa distant third. Ngilu and Wamalwa were welterweight. Raila did heavy lifting after Kibaki got indisposed with road accident.

3) Kibaki signed an MOU with LDP. He reneged on it almost immeidately. This is Uhuru 2.0 betrayal of Jubilee and nothing good can come out of it.

4) Kibaki after losing in Bomas - run to Kilifi - and made his own document (BBI style) -and subjected to the referendum - instead of the Bomas draft that had representation of all kenyans.

5) BBI is another kilifi draft - cynical document - it cannot go anywhere without public support - it will be defeated either in parliament or courts or in a referendum - if at all Raila and Uhuru can manage to agree. The current constitution is negotiated document - everyone lost something - and everyone need to get over it - and live with it.

Offline Pajero

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Reputation: 363
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2020, 10:37:20 AM »
What I saw yesterday is a man deflated and hopeless,I actually for the first time sympathized with Mobutu,there was a point he almost cried But again,he was warned but he didn't listen,he is not a good student of history,I think his hatred for Raila made him not reason at that time,he was out to revenge.Well,he got the revenge but at what cost?How does he feel that a person and people you supported 4 times are now working with your sworn enemy,indeed it's heartbreaking and sickening to say the least.
Wait a minute,I thought Mobutu was too smart,why did he dissolve his nandi urp,was the deal too good or was it for his own selfish interests,a smart politician does not dissolve his party five years to a general election,never,that was the beginning of the fall.Getting a new outfit with a national appeal now will be a tall order,but we wish him well,we want him on the ballot at all costs,he has to be on ballot by whichever means.

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2020, 10:55:26 AM »
If Ruto had remained in ODM - he would be like maDVD - abused and name it. Or like Kalonzo derided despite twice standing down for Raila. Uhuru is better man by far.

Now why would Ruto at his young age be deflated and hopeless. The man is just 54yrs - and has achieved a lot.

Ruto took a gamble to form jubilee because he needed to tightly couple with GEMA. The fact that he has survived this long despite Uhuru fighting him for now 3yrs - is testament that his gamble wasn't a bad idea.

Imagine if it was URP-TNA - it would be have been easy to divorce URP - now it's hard for Uhuru - he has party official - but he doesn't party members - otherwise he would have called for elections.

Does Ruto regret Jubilee - of course not - when he had opportunity in Jubilee - he made his mark (and tonnes of money). He still has lots of his guy inside gov.....and remain DPORK as we speak.

What I saw yesterday is a man deflated and hopeless,I actually for the first time sympathized with Mobutu,there was a point he almost cried But again,he was warned but he didn't listen,he is not a good student of history,I think his hatred for Raila made him not reason at that time,he was out to revenge.Well,he got the revenge but at what cost?How does he feel that a person and people you supported 4 times are now working with your sworn enemy,indeed it's heartbreaking and sickening to say the least.
Wait a minute,I thought Mobutu was too smart,why did he dissolve his nandi urp,was the deal too good or was it for his own selfish interests,a smart politician does not dissolve his party five years to a general election,never,that was the beginning of the fall.Getting a new outfit with a national appeal now will be a tall order,but we wish him well,we want him on the ballot at all costs,he has to be on ballot by whichever means.

Offline Pajero

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Reputation: 363
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2020, 12:24:29 PM »
So now he is not being abused and chided in jubilee to the extend of being pushed out by a junior party member,????being showed the middle finger by people he helped put in power.Bure kabisa,we are waiting him on ballot.

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2020, 12:27:25 PM »
Raila was subjected to the same as Kibaki PM- and yet insist to this day - that he is pm.
So now he is not being abused and chided in jubilee to the extend of being pushed out by a junior party member,????being showed the middle finger by people he helped put in power.Bure kabisa,we are waiting him on ballot.

Offline MOON Ki

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2667
  • Reputation: 5780
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2020, 12:55:54 PM »
This stuff  is really funny.   What happened to "pipty-pipty fifty-fifty all the way"?
MOON Ki  is  Muli Otieno Otiende Njoroge arap Kiprotich
Your True Friend, Brother,  and  Compatriot.

Offline RV Pundit

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 38335
  • Reputation: 1074446
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2020, 01:57:52 PM »
At least most of you are now recovering from deep depression.
This stuff  is really funny.   What happened to "pipty-pipty fifty-fifty all the way"?

Offline GeeMail

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2722
  • Reputation: 18465
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2020, 03:02:41 PM »
Okay, a president and his deputy fighting, is already a civil war.

You're living in a fools paradise.

In Nakuru District,
according to then PPO Wasike, the sheer numbers of the marauding gangs
heavily outnumbered the police and the Army was called in to assist in policing.
The Commission heard that there were very few police officers in the troubled
areas of Kambarari, Kaptembwa, Milima and Kiti, and that those who sought
help from police stations were told to resort to self help. The Commission was
further told that there were more than 100 idle police officers in their residential
houses within the town at Kasarani and thereafter they would be hired privately
at a going rate of between Ksh. 1,000 to Ksh. 2,000 per officer to assist with the
rescue of besieged people to safer areas.

[quote ] a civil war is worst case scenario.
Pundit you are sick.
[/quote]

Pundit I'm sure by now you have seen what's circulating on social media about the post-interview match behind the curtains. Brawns not brain. It's an obsession and it is not good for your man.
Celebratory violence: 2017 crime invented to justify killings to prevent Raila from becoming PORK. http://www.nipate.com/download/file.php?id=4244

Offline Njuri Ncheke

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 2685
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2020, 03:10:46 PM »
:*I am not obsessed. I made my comment - and your scared titties made a meal out of it. Kenya is not special. Ethiopia,Somalia, Sudan, Uganda, Congo, Rwanda and Burundi have been here..only Tanzania and Kenya have spared.

If Uhuru is not wise (like Raila) - he will make kenya join the rest.

NO one disagrees even a child in baby class knows that. The problem is you seem to be obsessed with civil war and conflicts. There is no winner in Such most affected by the way will be Kalenjin then Kikuyu. Stop negative energy.
Pundit I dont have time for your shenanigans and teenage antics, I like to be brief and easily get disoriented in long rumbling speeches you do save that for Robina, as for me I will simply cut you short with my panga.

Offline patel

  • Moderator
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 3549
  • Reputation: 2110
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2020, 07:10:08 PM »
There is nothing like Ruto vs Uhuru. Ruto lost that war loooong time  ago it's more like Ruto Vs Murathe (junior member of jubilee), a war that he is loosing badly. Soon they will pass him to Wambugu Ngujiri and akina shebesh to finish him off.  Civil war in kenya! It ain't happening. In 2007 you had a lot of Kalenjins and Kambas in police force and the military some that has changed alot. It would be suicidal for kalenjins to start tribal clashes when they are isolated. They will be finished before noon na kazi iendelee. Ruto was supposed to be SI unit of worriorhood....what happened?

Offline Nowayhaha

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7463
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2020, 08:36:15 PM »
Nowayaha,

1) Kibaki was abandoned en-masse by Mt Kenya immediately Moi endorsed Uhuru. Kiambu and a whole 1/3 of GEMA still voted for Uhuru and KANU in the main election.
Bot factual, Only Kiambu & Thika faction of Mt Kenya crossed over to K.AN.U. The rest Nairobi, Nyandarua, Nyeri , Kirinyaga , Laikipia , Nakuru, Muranga , Embu , Tharaka Nithi , Meru and Diaspora stuck with Kibaki and it was a combination of two factors number one being they mistrusted MOI akin to Raila now and the other had been with Kibaki since 1992.

If you know  Kiambu politics they almost voted for Charity Ngilu in 1997 because they regarded Kibaki as a weakling most of the people in Kiambu actually voted for MPS and councillors and didnt vote for presidency , hence the reason you would see SDP Mps in Thika and Kiambu and when it came for Presidential votes they were less than the ones polled for MPS one of the reason Kibaki used to claim 97 elections were rigged

Nowayaha,
2) Raila saved Kibaki - otherwise KANU would have won - with possibly Nyachae-Raila and Kibaki-Wamalwa distant third. Ngilu and Wamalwa were welterweight. Raila did heavy lifting after Kibaki got indisposed with road accident.

Between Kibaki and Uhuru , I dont know who would have won , but I was very sure just like in 1997 , Raila would have come No 3.  According to the calculations then going by 1997 election results  , Kibaki had polled 31% , Wamalwa 8.2% and Ngilu 7.9%  totaling 48% against Mois 40% .NAK movement had gained traction even in Coast for the first time Mombasa and Kilifi was tilting towards NAK because of Karisa Maithas influence .
Uhuru would never have won in Coast they just hate simply because of the Kenyatta name.

Nowayaha,

3) Kibaki signed an MOU with LDP. He reneged on it almost immeidately. This is Uhuru 2.0 betrayal of Jubilee and nothing good can come out of it.

What did he renege on ,all NARC members were made Ministers , Raila wanted more than he was entitled to .He was given a very big portfolio as minister of roads and public works , but he used his position to campaign against Kibaki . Raila simply wanted to overthrow Kibaki . from 2003 to 2005 that was a dark era in Kenyan political history where a minister undermined abused and insoboardinated the president . In all honesty Kibaki was focused in ushering a new constitution and highly likely Raila would have been made the new Prime Minister in the new dispesation but he was overzealous

Nowayaha,
4) Kibaki after losing in Bomas - run to Kilifi - and made his own document (BBI style) -and subjected to the referendum - instead of the Bomas draft that had representation of all kenyans.
Now tell me what was the difference between Naivasha talks and Kilifi talks?

Nowayaha,
5) BBI is another kilifi draft - cynical document - it cannot go anywhere without public support - it will be defeated either in parliament or courts or in a referendum - if at all Raila and Uhuru can manage to agree. The current constitution is negotiated document - everyone lost something - and everyone need to get over it - and live with it.
Raila and Uhuru might agree , but people on the ground wont, especially now with Raila calling for reduction of Governors by removal of some County governors  and introducing regional governors.

Remember Raila is referencing the regions from Bomas draft which had envisioned 14 regions as below

constitutionnet.org/sites/default/files/TWC%20G-Final%20Report.pdf

Quote
Subsequently, the Committee reversed its earlier decisions on the number of
regions and unanimously agreed on fourteen regions namely, Coast, Western,
Nairobi, Central and North Eastern would constitute one region each. Nyanza
and Eastern provinces would have two and four regions respectively. Rift
Valley province would be divided into three regions, namely the North,
Central and South Rift regions.

Offline Nowayhaha

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7463
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2020, 08:40:40 PM »
What I saw yesterday is a man deflated and hopeless,I actually for the first time sympathized with Mobutu,there was a point he almost cried But again,he was warned but he didn't listen,he is not a good student of history,I think his hatred for Raila made him not reason at that time,he was out to revenge.Well,he got the revenge but at what cost?How does he feel that a person and people you supported 4 times are now working with your sworn enemy,indeed it's heartbreaking and sickening to say the least.
Wait a minute,I thought Mobutu was too smart,why did he dissolve his nandi urp,was the deal too good or was it for his own selfish interests,a smart politician does not dissolve his party five years to a general election,never,that was the beginning of the fall.Getting a new outfit with a national appeal now will be a tall order,but we wish him well,we want him on the ballot at all costs,he has to be on ballot by whichever means.

Ruto was on a mission ,  apart from revenge he became the Kingpin of Rift valley at ODMs and Railas cost, he further went and became a Deputy President and is oncourse of becoming President by 2022.

Offline Nowayhaha

  • VIP
  • Enigma
  • *
  • Posts: 7463
  • Reputation: 5000
Re: The war btw Ruto and Uhuru is now live
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2020, 08:44:00 PM »
So now he is not being abused and chided in jubilee to the extend of being pushed out by a junior party member,????being showed the middle finger by people he helped put in power.Bure kabisa,we are waiting him on ballot.

This is norm in Poltics , Raila is being abused and chided by junior party members Aisha Jumwa and company from Kilifi and Kwale.
Same can be said of Uhuru by the Sudis , Moses Kuria and Ichungwa 

Nothing new go back to Kenyan politics post 2002 era