Conspiracy Theories

[vooke]

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I love every word,every letter of this book.

Everyone should read it

“The premise of this book is very simple. These false conspiracy theories are a problem. They hurt individuals by affecting their life choices, in terms of money, health, and social interactions. They hurt society by distracting from the very real problems of corruption and decreasing citizens’ genuine participation in democracy. False conspiracy theories are real problems and we can and should do something about them. This book discusses the nature of the problem, why people get sucked in, how they get out, and what pragmatic things can be done to help individuals escape the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
The key themes of this book are:”

• Understanding the conspiracy theory rabbit hole

• Realizing that conspiracy theorists are just normal people

• Developing a clear understanding of what they are thinking and why

• Fostering trust and mutual respect

• Finding areas of agreement and recognizing their genuine concerns

• Identifying mistakes in their beliefs, or areas where they lack information

• Exposing them to new information to help them gain a more fact-based perspective

• Doing it all with honesty and openness

• Giving it time”

[KenyanPlato]

Give it to gmail andgarlic

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

[vooke]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

You need to read the book.

To some extent everyone is a conspiracy theorist, only the intensity matters

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

You need to read the book.

To some extent everyone is a conspiracy theorist, only the intensity matters

I'll see where I can find it.  The library is closed. 

I think conspiracy theories and persecution complex are an item.  Where you find one, the other one is there - lurking sometimes, but usually openly.

[Nefertiti]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

You need to read the book.

To some extent everyone is a conspiracy theorist, only the intensity matters

I'll see where I can find it.  The library is closed. 

I think conspiracy theories and persecution complex are an item.  Where you find one, the other one is there - lurking sometimes, but usually openly.

The Left-Right divide is a study in applied conspiracy theory. My take is while the alt-Right's persecution complex is unparalleled, most of the hard Left is equally unhinged. You are right it's a chasm no handshake or BBI can salvage. Time will take care of it along with everything else.

[vooke]

Here's the book.

Please give it a try and I'm sure you attitude towards conspiracy theories will change.

[Dear Mami]

Mine is complicated. I agree with Robina except for how we might define the hard left.

I mean, yes, the cancel culture/SJW college/high-school kids are unhinged, I agree. But alt-right is in a league of its own, IMO. Those guys want a Whites-only state. No one on the cultural left goes that crazy, IMO, and I say this as a severe critic of the cultural left, whom I consider often dangerous but not in the sense I consider the Alt-right dangerous. That's why they have things like mass-shootings among adherents. They are only comparable to actual terrorist groups, like Al-shabaab et al, IMO. Not other political fringes, not even the Tea-Party/Far-Right. Even the worst left identitarians on the Democratic side, whom I genuinely loathe and who weaponized woke politics (the weaponizers are typically mainstream too, btw, not 'hard left' at least in the economic sense), cannot be accused of anything on the level of 'White women ain't having babies coz evil Jews,' and 'Blacks/Browns shouldn't exist in this country.' If they are not genuinely insane, these guys are evil. Mungiki level.

I think the problem is many on the Left go so far as to class all Republicans secret alt-righters. But that's a mistake: Just like on the left, there are many different interests on the Right who vote for Trump or the Right in general for distinct reasons, and many who belong to just one or two of these camps. Trump was just wily enough to give each of them something to get them to back him enthusiastically before or after the 2016 general (he has since consolidated some Tea-Party and Corporate Never-Trumpers since 2016, I know this for sure), i.e. He has delivered something for these four interest camps: (1) The Corporatists/Mainstream/Warmongers, (2) Christian Conservatives, (3) Tea-Partiers (the true 'Far-Right' or 'constitutional conservatives' as they call themselves), and (4) Alt-Righters. The wall was for the Alt-Righters, the SCOTUS and Federal judges were for both Christian Pro-lifers and Tea-Partiers, and the war-posturing and tax-cuts have been for the Corporate-backed, warmongering political mainstream.

IMO, there's no Left equivalent for the Alt-Right. The Tea-Party 'enemies' on the left would be the Economic populists. Interestingly, they both oppose both the Dem and Rep corporatist warmongers (who in reality are each others' friendly rivals, not enemies, like they pretend to be to get votes), while the cultural left, you might say, are opposed to/by Christian or just Traditionalist cultural conservatives (I've actually found there are many non-Christian Traditionalists, even from other religions, supporting the Right on the same basis). When you find non-Whites on the Right, they are typically in one or two or all these three camps. Which is why I say the Alt-Right has no left counterpart: their 'enemies' are literally non-White people. It's not just an ideological/policy fight where they take the opposite stances as some left policy, they literally just want the U.S. to be an ethnostate. And like Al-Qaeeda, et al, their ambitions are pretty global: Just anywhere there are white people, these guys want everyone else to vanish. It's no wonder they have so many shooters and lone-terrorists. The best thing is they are fringe even on the right, in the sense that many will not want to publicly get labeled one. The worst thing is they've moved pretty steadily towards the mainstream since 2015, which is super scary.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

You need to read the book.

To some extent everyone is a conspiracy theorist, only the intensity matters

I'll see where I can find it.  The library is closed. 

I think conspiracy theories and persecution complex are an item.  Where you find one, the other one is there - lurking sometimes, but usually openly.

The Left-Right divide is a study in applied conspiracy theory. My take is while the alt-Right's persecution complex is unparalleled, most of the hard Left is equally unhinged. You are right it's a chasm no handshake or BBI can salvage. Time will take care of it along with everything else.

I can’t think of any Left conspiracy theories though.  I am sure there are some.  But agreed, the right has devolved into a cult and has been one in the making for some time.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Here's the book.

Please give it a try and I'm sure you attitude towards conspiracy theories will change.

Muchisimas thanks.

[vooke]

There is no getting around conspiracy theories if we no longer have a shared facts.  It’s an unbridgeable chasm IMO.  It’s quite terrifying this power to shape thought.

You need to read the book.

To some extent everyone is a conspiracy theorist, only the intensity matters

I'll see where I can find it.  The library is closed. 

I think conspiracy theories and persecution complex are an item.  Where you find one, the other one is there - lurking sometimes, but usually openly.

The Left-Right divide is a study in applied conspiracy theory. My take is while the alt-Right's persecution complex is unparalleled, most of the hard Left is equally unhinged. You are right it's a chasm no handshake or BBI can salvage. Time will take care of it along with everything else.

I can’t think of any Left conspiracy theories though.  I am sure there are some.  But agreed, the right has devolved into a cult and has been one in the making for some time.

I think a good chunk of 911 theories came from the left

[Garliv]

Simply put: IF YOU DISAGREE WITH anything the mainstream public/media/governments  CLAIM AS FACT/TRUTH then you are a conspiracy theorist. It is generally used to label any arguments/claim which is disagreeable.

According to Paul Craig Roberts, https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/24/the-term-conspiracy-theory-was-invented-by-the-cia-in-order-to-prevent-disbelief-of-official-government-stories/ the term was promoted by the CIA to silence whoever did not believe official report on JFK death. He states;

In 2013 Professor Lance Dehaven-Smith in a peer-reviewed book published by the University of Texas Press showed that the term “conspiracy theory” was developed by the CIA as a means of undercutting critics of the Warren Commission’s report that President Kennedy was killed by Oswald. The use of this term was heavily promoted in the media by the CIA. https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Theory-America-Discovering/dp/0292757697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471971025&sr=1-1&keywords=Conspiracy+Theory+in+America


And of course those who disagree with him would label such claims as conspiracy theory!

Remember there is genuine enquiry/investigation/research into some issue(s) based on "official/accepted" narrative and then presenting alternative version as accurate. In short QUESTIONING "official/generally accepted version". AND then there is OBSESSION with questioning everything and presenting alternative narrative even when it is not necessary to. The latter is unhealthy. The former acceptable and reasonable.

The book seems to dwell on "unhealthy/obsession.." and in the process it becomes another 'conspiracy theory' to silence any inquiry of anything "generally accepted" as self evident truth.

 

Here's the book.

Please give it a try and I'm sure you attitude towards conspiracy theories will change.

[Garliv]

You must be joking. Have you seriously gone through 911 truth seekers arguments? Including models? Including professionals in such field as architect, engineers, demolition experts and so many others?

I think a good chunk of 911 theories came from the left

[KenyanPlato]

You must be joking. Have you seriously gone through 911 truth seekers arguments? Including models? Including professionals in such field as architect, engineers, demolition experts and so many others?

Who hurt? You are a nut job.

I think a good chunk of 911 theories came from the left

[vooke]

Simply put: IF YOU DISAGREE WITH anything the mainstream public/media/governments  CLAIM AS FACT/TRUTH then you are a conspiracy theorist. It is generally used to label any arguments/claim which is disagreeable.

According to Paul Craig Roberts, https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/24/the-term-conspiracy-theory-was-invented-by-the-cia-in-order-to-prevent-disbelief-of-official-government-stories/ the term was promoted by the CIA to silence whoever did not believe official report on JFK death. He states;

In 2013 Professor Lance Dehaven-Smith in a peer-reviewed book published by the University of Texas Press showed that the term “conspiracy theory” was developed by the CIA as a means of undercutting critics of the Warren Commission’s report that President Kennedy was killed by Oswald. The use of this term was heavily promoted in the media by the CIA. https://www.amazon.com/Conspiracy-Theory-America-Discovering/dp/0292757697/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1471971025&sr=1-1&keywords=Conspiracy+Theory+in+America


And of course those who disagree with him would label such claims as conspiracy theory!

Remember there is genuine enquiry/investigation/research into some issue(s) based on "official/accepted" narrative and then presenting alternative version as accurate. In short QUESTIONING "official/generally accepted version". AND then there is OBSESSION with questioning everything and presenting alternative narrative even when it is not necessary to. The latter is unhealthy. The former acceptable and reasonable.

The book seems to dwell on "unhealthy/obsession.." and in the process it becomes another 'conspiracy theory' to silence any inquiry of anything "generally accepted" as self evident truth.

 

Here's the book.

Please give it a try and I'm sure you attitude towards conspiracy theories will change.

The term conspiracy theory was invented decades before the alleged CIA document

This is the problem of feeding on garbage. There’s a paragraph or two about conspiracy theory conspiracy theories

[vooke]

You must be joking. Have you seriously gone through 911 truth seekers arguments? Including models? Including professionals in such field as architect, engineers, demolition experts and so many others?

I think a good chunk of 911 theories came from the left

The book takes you less than a day to chew. Why bark over something you’ve never read?

Read the book first

[Dear Mami]

I think a good chunk of 911 theories came from the left

Which ones? I don't consider, "911 was used as a pretext for regime-change wars in the ME," a conspiracy theory by any measure. It is emperical fact. If you're referring to "911 was a CIA hoax" variety, I believe I've seen that from Alex Jones and some groups of Musilms, the latter sometimes pushing the "Jews did 911".

Rather, the conspiracy theory Democrats have been pushing mchana kutwa is Russiagate. The idea that Russia somehow cost Hillary the presidency and that Trump is a Putin plant/minion is ridiculous. Respectable people only give it a thought because they hear it from pundits on MSNBC and CNN and can't fathom these guys are not an inch more integral than Fox, so they assume it's been supported, somehow.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Mine is complicated. I agree with Robina except for how we might define the hard left.

I mean, yes, the cancel culture/SJW college/high-school kids are unhinged, I agree. But alt-right is in a league of its own, IMO. Those guys want a Whites-only state. No one on the cultural left goes that crazy, IMO, and I say this as a severe critic of the cultural left, whom I consider often dangerous but not in the sense I consider the Alt-right dangerous. That's why they have things like mass-shootings among adherents. They are only comparable to actual terrorist groups, like Al-shabaab et al, IMO. Not other political fringes, not even the Tea-Party/Far-Right. Even the worst left identitarians on the Democratic side, whom I genuinely loathe and who weaponized woke politics (the weaponizers are typically mainstream too, btw, not 'hard left' at least in the economic sense), cannot be accused of anything on the level of 'White women ain't having babies coz evil Jews,' and 'Blacks/Browns shouldn't exist in this country.' If they are not genuinely insane, these guys are evil. Mungiki level.

I am just learning of some stuff like cancel culture.  Why do you consider that unhinged?  It looks to me like people protesting behavior they consider objectionable.  That culture seems fine.  You might object to how they go about it, but the concept seems okay.

I think the problem is many on the Left go so far as to class all Republicans secret alt-righters. But that's a mistake: Just like on the left, there are many different interests on the Right who vote for Trump or the Right in general for distinct reasons, and many who belong to just one or two of these camps. Trump was just wily enough to give each of them something to get them to back him enthusiastically before or after the 2016 general (he has since consolidated some Tea-Party and Corporate Never-Trumpers since 2016, I know this for sure), i.e. He has delivered something for these four interest camps: (1) The Corporatists/Mainstream/Warmongers, (2) Christian Conservatives, (3) Tea-Partiers (the true 'Far-Right' or 'constitutional conservatives' as they call themselves), and (4) Alt-Righters. The wall was for the Alt-Righters, the SCOTUS and Federal judges were for both Christian Pro-lifers and Tea-Partiers, and the war-posturing and tax-cuts have been for the Corporate-backed, warmongering political mainstream.

I think you downplay the racist aspect of Republicanism too much.   It's out in the open.  The only thing not happening are public lynchings.  alt-right is the underbelly of the Republican party.  There are probably differing degrees of it.  But the tolerance for it is almost universal.  "I am not a racist, even though I pretend not to see it because I look away when it happens" seems to be in play for a lot of the "moderate" Republicans.

It wasn't this bad during GW Bush, but even then you knew what Republicans are about.  No,  they won't say their party hates minorities obviously.  But they do and say things where you know what they are about, just as surely as any Kenyan knows what Kimunya is about when he says "NSE is not a fish market".  The audience understands the polite fiction.

IMO, there's no Left equivalent for the Alt-Right. The Tea-Party 'enemies' on the left would be the Economic populists. Interestingly, they both oppose both the Dem and Rep corporatist warmongers (who in reality are each others' friendly rivals, not enemies, like they pretend to be to get votes), while the cultural left, you might say, are opposed to/by Christian or just Traditionalist cultural conservatives (I've actually found there are many non-Christian Traditionalists, even from other religions, supporting the Right on the same basis). When you find non-Whites on the Right, they are typically in one or two or all these three camps. Which is why I say the Alt-Right has no left counterpart: their 'enemies' are literally non-White people. It's not just an ideological/policy fight where they take the opposite stances as some left policy, they literally just want the U.S. to be an ethnostate. And like Al-Qaeeda, et al, their ambitions are pretty global: Just anywhere there are white people, these guys want everyone else to vanish. It's no wonder they have so many shooters and lone-terrorists. The best thing is they are fringe even on the right, in the sense that many will not want to publicly get labeled one. The worst thing is they've moved pretty steadily towards the mainstream since 2015, which is super scary.

IMO the non-whites on the right are just outliers.  In many cases, they serve as useful foils to legitimate accusations of racism.

[Garliv]

Maybe I will find time and devour your newly discovered Bible on Conspiracy Theory. But just remember it ain't the only one written on the issue. And therefore it has no monopoly on the subject.

The term conspiracy theory was invented decades before the alleged CIA document

This is the problem of feeding on garbage. There’s a paragraph or two about conspiracy theory conspiracy theories

[vooke]

Maybe I will find time and devour your newly discovered Bible on Conspiracy Theory. But just remember it ain't the only one written on the issue. And therefore it has no monopoly on the subject.

The term conspiracy theory was invented decades before the alleged CIA document

This is the problem of feeding on garbage. There’s a paragraph or two about conspiracy theory conspiracy theories

Nobody said it was