Ruto has won kikuyu hearts and minds ..robina

[Garliv]

I support conservation of Mau. What i really hate and abhor is the manner in which government goes about evicting people. Then it doesn't even do reforestation or anything else. It's as if evicting people for sadistic pleasure or thinking Mau is now fine because there are no people in it. It started even during Moi's time evicting people (peasant farmers) and leaving them to fed for themselves.
Then its compounded by the fact that most of these forest dwellers have known no other home for generations and govt always knew about them.
It's supposed to be a government of the people. Not of trees or animals. Its chiefly government of the people. Therefore as we support conservation of Mau and other areas it's also possible to be humane and resettle these poor peasant farmers then do reforestation and all that appertains to that. Then it can be evident to everyone that truly government has a plan.

Mau eviction are sadly used for political points and ethnic issues. Some Maasai politicians want people evicted because they view them as "foreigners.."
It's a good noble goal to pursue but implemented in a most idiotic and opportunistic manner.

Vitisho I mean of PEV 2 - not Waititu impeachment. There is a line between innocent folks and politicians battling for power. Kuria for instance may jibe Uhuru and police may revive his old assault case. You can even run propaganda about chiefs vetting people in Kirinyaga. That's fair. But PEV or even evicting peasants out of the forest is wrong. I view Mau as principally an environmental issue that didn't start with Jubilee. Kenya needs the Mau restored. That's why I support it. I rejected NRM secession unlike most ODMers.

Parliamentary... myself, ODM and Raila have supported it since Bomas. Sadly Kiraitu doctored Bomas into a NARA hybrid. So it is not new or merely opportune. I would rather have Exec PM Uhuru or Ruto than Exec PORK Raila. We have been backing Uhuru for PM- Raila for ceremonial president combo

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Ruto role or alleged roles in PEV was even documented by ICC for whoever wants details. Or alleged details. Therefore am not absolving him any blame. But in his capacity as titular head of Kalenjin Nation he did apologise and vowed people will not fight again. He did this in context of those Nakuru meetings. There is nothing to show or proof or doubt his words. He seemed genuine and he has proved genuine.
On the other hand, Raila played a huge role in 2007/08 PEV than Ruto ever did. Raila provided political legitimacy (if you can call it that) for it. He defended PEV as legitimate protest for his alleged stolen election victory. He congratulated those young men causing mayhem as legitimate protestors. Most of all he made it a national sport to hate or hunt Kikuyus when he deliberately accepted 41 vs 1 as a campaign strategy. It's even unimaginable what such a person can do when in power. All those are in public domain. And finally he has never apologized or regretted anything about 2007/08 PEVand he was ultimate leader who was seeking Presidency.
When you compare Ruto and Raila, the Hustler has much more redeeming qualities than Raila could ever be.

As for Moi, yes he played his part. And he was also brutal to others. His record of good, bad and ugly is all there for people to judge. But remember he operated in some kind of transitional period. From some kind of dictatorship to multipartyism. And in retrospect am not sure anybody else in his shoes would have done it any better. But some things like instigated tribal clashes were avoidable. Finally it has been like 20yrs since Moi left power. It behoves upon leaders and us to see and judge who can do away with the worst of Moi. Raila cannot. And we cannot blame all Kalenjins for Moi's sin. Just that when Raila is finally retired or buried Luo Nation will get a more reasonable leader to deal with.

What was Ruto's role in PEV? You seem to blame Raila for it all. Luo did not behead nor evict anyone. Uhuru defended Kikuyus and your propaganda cannot take away his accolades.

Parliamentary is about equity. Two tribe rule needs to end. Also, last time Njonjo let in a Kalenjin Gema were the most marginalized for 24 years. Gema suffered under Kalenjin presidential leadership so you got your facts upside down. Gema only did well when they were in power - which is what Uhuru is doing - staying in power.

I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo.  In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.

[Nefertiti]

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila.  They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba.  I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever).  It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.

[Kichwa]

I do not think its a phobia.  Its just pride.  Just like Pundit here, those people swore and done things to make sure  that Raila was Kwisha, done, kaput, retired, etc but RAO keeps on showing up big and better. Its eating them alive.

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila.  They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba.  I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever).  It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.

[Garliv]

You are partly right. Yea. Fear of Raila is real. His capacity to incite, his unpredictability and his always "keleles..." That is a factor so no one disputes that. Even those who seem to support Uhuru/Raila arrangements have that nagging fear that Raila can as easily renege. Yes every politician has played double cross game but for Raila is on his own league.
Kindly note, there is nothing wrong or feared about Luos in general. Unfortunately in an multi ethnic society dispute between leaders or hate of a particular leader can always be misconstrued as hate/fear of the whole group.
Hustler can't easily be wished away whether Raila is there or not since there is also independent relations between Kalenjins and Kikuyus. So that remains. But fear or dislike of Raila makes Hustler even more appealing.

I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo.  In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.

[Garliv]

Your answer doesn't follow. If "they" are not happy to share with anyone and yet "they" willing to share with Hustler. So how does that explain why they don't want Raila?
Maybe you should also interrogate the reasons they give for not wanting Raila. Try and look from "their" end too.. Therein lies the answer.

There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila.  They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba.  I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever).  It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.

[RV Pundit]

Precisely -esp if those people have stayed there for generations. Mau Mau was sparked by the eviction of Kikuyus from olenguorene so the Italians release prisoners could get land. They went back to Kiambu and started chaos..

I support conservation of Mau. What i really hate and abhor is the manner in which government goes about evicting people. Then it doesn't even do reforestation or anything else. It's as if evicting people for sadistic pleasure or thinking Mau is now fine because there are no people in it. It started even during Moi's time evicting people (peasant farmers) and leaving them to fed for themselves.
Then its compounded by the fact that most of these forest dwellers have known no other home for generations and govt always knew about them.
It's supposed to be a government of the people. Not of trees or animals. Its chiefly government of the people. Therefore as we support conservation of Mau and other areas it's also possible to be humane and resettle these poor peasant farmers then do reforestation and all that appertains to that. Then it can be evident to everyone that truly government has a plan.

Mau eviction are sadly used for political points and ethnic issues. Some Maasai politicians want people evicted because they view them as "foreigners.."
It's a good noble goal to pursue but implemented in a most idiotic and opportunistic manner.

Vitisho I mean of PEV 2 - not Waititu impeachment. There is a line between innocent folks and politicians battling for power. Kuria for instance may jibe Uhuru and police may revive his old assault case. You can even run propaganda about chiefs vetting people in Kirinyaga. That's fair. But PEV or even evicting peasants out of the forest is wrong. I view Mau as principally an environmental issue that didn't start with Jubilee. Kenya needs the Mau restored. That's why I support it. I rejected NRM secession unlike most ODMers.

Parliamentary... myself, ODM and Raila have supported it since Bomas. Sadly Kiraitu doctored Bomas into a NARA hybrid. So it is not new or merely opportune. I would rather have Exec PM Uhuru or Ruto than Exec PORK Raila. We have been backing Uhuru for PM- Raila for ceremonial president combo

[RV Pundit]

You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.

Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.

If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.

Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

[Kichwa]

You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO.  Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.

You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.

Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.

If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.

Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

[RV Pundit]

Well, Uhuru has certainly attempted but he is intelligent enough not dip both feet in a crocodile invested river Nile heading to Caanan. I would say Uhuru will have to deal with reality of his retirement and stop entertaining stupid ideas.

You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO.  Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.

[Nefertiti]

You will be hard-pressed to show who are Ruto's new friends as so many Gema and non-Gema peel away. We can trade the lists if you want.

You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.

Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.

If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.

Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit is a spin doctor. He knows the truth.

You have made a lot of progress yourself Pundit. I remember not too long ago your narrative was that Ruto and Uhuru were playing RAO.  Now it appears that you have accepted the fact that Ouru has dumped Ruto. That's a big improvement. The next hill you must climb is that Ruto will not president. It will take sometime but you will get there.

You're making some tremendous progress in understanding why Ruto is sleepwalking to Statehouse. The fear & loathing of Raila & Jaramogi in Mt Kenya didn't start today - I think it started in the 1960s. The fear is both rational and irrational. Kalenjin also fear and loathe Raila...because look they killed for the man and the first thing he did was to betray them. Kalenjin never voted for Kibaki and didn't expect anything from him. But Raila.

Now you have two groups -Mt Kenya & Kalenjin (aka Jubilee)- jointly united in the hatred of the man - and you know why Uhuru has made zero traction despite using TOTAL GOV MACHINERY for 2 now going 3yrs.

If Uhuru insist on going ahead - with his project Raila - then surely he will go alone. He will have to quit Jubilee and join ODM alone. It will be very lonely.

Uhuru is wasting time if he thinks he can somehow intimidate Jubilee to back Raila. It ain't happening now or ever. He can join ODM like the 10 or so mps he has managed to intimidate...but he will be facing open rebellion starting next year. He may end up retiring in great shame like Moi.

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

[Garliv]

Unless you prove me wrong, what I have stated as reasons for not liking Raila still stands.
And i have also stated the reasons Uhuru Deal is totally unacceptable to Mt. Kenya. He's asking Mt. Kenya to commit political harakiri. It won't happen. It doesn't matter whether he's given Executive PM. Akae nayo.
Those are legit reasons based on sound analysis.

BTW Robina, Raila's Street intelligence gathering machine has started bragging how Raila has managed to bell the cat..

It goes like this:
"Unajua Baba alituambia ameshika dume yao kabisa. Kwa makende. Sasa Parliamentary ikipita hakuna Kikuyu ataongeza Kenya mpaka Yesu arudi. Boss, kuna njia mingi za kutega panya. Unaweka mtego pale na pale na pale na moja itashika. Sasa imeshika hii panya ya Central.. Unajua tuliambia Wakale wajichunge lakini hawakuskia. Ona sasa. Sisi ukituona na Baba kama tuko hapo sasa ni final touches... "

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

You are partly right. Yea. Fear of Raila is real. His capacity to incite, his unpredictability and his always "keleles..." That is a factor so no one disputes that. Even those who seem to support Uhuru/Raila arrangements have that nagging fear that Raila can as easily renege. Yes every politician has played double cross game but for Raila is on his own league.
Kindly note, there is nothing wrong or feared about Luos in general. Unfortunately in an multi ethnic society dispute between leaders or hate of a particular leader can always be misconstrued as hate/fear of the whole group.
Hustler can't easily be wished away whether Raila is there or not since there is also independent relations between Kalenjins and Kikuyus. So that remains. But fear or dislike of Raila makes Hustler even more appealing.

I think we can now confirm the fear of Raila(Luo) couched in don't betray Ruto lingo.  In reality, even the hustler will be told that he can go to hell once the "threat of Baba" is eliminated in this mindset.

Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite?  I don't understand.  This must be the irrational part of the fear.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Your answer doesn't follow. If "they" are not happy to share with anyone and yet "they" willing to share with Hustler. So how does that explain why they don't want Raila?
Maybe you should also interrogate the reasons they give for not wanting Raila. Try and look from "their" end too.. Therein lies the answer.

There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila.  They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba.  I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever).  It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.

As long as Hustler is number 2, sure.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

I do not think its a phobia.  Its just pride.  Just like Pundit here, those people swore and done things to make sure  that Raila was Kwisha, done, kaput, retired, etc but RAO keeps on showing up big and better. Its eating them alive.

bitmask so folks are so scared of Raila? Even with Uhuru as PM It is simply phobia - i.e. irrational and not based on objectives. Apparently Raila is "hard to work with" bla bla.

There is a group with Mutahi Ngunyiesque fear of Raila.  They will embrace the grim reaper before they embrace Baba.  I think they are just not happy about the fact that GEMA is now forced to share power with anyone(Ruto, Raila or whoever).  It's just that Raila seems to be getting too close for comfort.

I think it's deeper than that.  There is a sense that BBI is unraveling a "good thing".  I have seen it among the "educated" GEMA but I am not sure if it goes beyond that group.  The elite probably just want someone who can protect their wealth, the hoi-polloi are just trying to survive.

[Garliv]

1. Before people vote you into power there are things they like and dislike. Its like a cost benefit analysis.

2. When one gets to power, he may live to expectations or not. He may be better than expected or worse.

3. As a result they are good chunk of Kenyans who don't want to make guesswork with Raila in power. He may become the best. Or just be ordinary. Or just prove critics right.

4. Specifically on incitement when in power, surely we have good example of Moi. Who deliberately incited tribal clashes which later others took it to another level. There are a lot "incitement" and mischiefs one can do while in power.

So it isn't rational at all. It's a world wide phenomenon. There those who thought Trump would be like the worst or the best or he will keep his promises or not. And still there those who still hate him with a passion and would gladly have him killed. And those who view him as some kind of Messiah incarnate. It's the way it is.

Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite?  I don't understand.  This must be the irrational part of the fear.

[Garliv]

But honestly isn't the fight at the moment in Mt. Kenya to get Hustler to Number 1?

As long as Hustler is number 2, sure.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

1. Before people vote you into power there are things they like and dislike. Its like a cost benefit analysis.

2. When one gets to power, he may live to expectations or not. He may be better than expected or worse.

3. As a result they are good chunk of Kenyans who don't want to make guesswork with Raila in power. He may become the best. Or just be ordinary. Or just prove critics right.

4. Specifically on incitement when in power, surely we have good example of Moi. Who deliberately incited tribal clashes which later others took it to another level. There are a lot "incitement" and mischiefs one can do while in power.

So it isn't rational at all. It's a world wide phenomenon. There those who thought Trump would be like the worst or the best or he will keep his promises or not. And still there those who still hate him with a passion and would gladly have him killed. And those who view him as some kind of Messiah incarnate. It's the way it is.

Suppose Raila attains power, who and why would he incite?  I don't understand.  This must be the irrational part of the fear.

Moi incited clashes to prove that multipartism is evil.  Raila's "incitement" is to end electoral theft.  To what end would a Raila in power incite any violence?