Prof Moraa and Turkana boy want Uhuru stopped from receiving BBi

[RV Pundit]

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Not sure who sent that Moraa...he has was busy in ICC filling motions for Uhuru etc case.A perfect excuse for Uhuru to deal with BBi.I don't think Uhuru wants referendum and makelele around it interfering with his last 2yrs in power.

[RV Pundit]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-star.co.ke/amp/news/2019-10-05-bbi-enjoined-in-case-seeking-to-stop-report/

[Nefertiti]

Lot of conjecture as usual. We don't know what Uhuru is thinking but have empirical evidence - live news - of his actions. Why is he behind Moraa and every Omtata that raise your hopes? Aukot came and went. They sat in the bedroom with the wife and nanny - and Punguza was still legit. There is no law stopping anyone from gathering views. As you can see there is no mention of which clause in katiba BBI violates.

[RV Pundit]

BBi violate many laws including public finance expenditure.BBI should have passed parliament otherwise whatever they are doing is null n void but at 10b.They should use their personal finance to sponsor popular ammendments like Aukot .This is not even a commission of inquiry that has legal backing.It plain useless without public participation in its formation, selection of the BBI team and rules governing it's operations including the purported public hearing.Justice Korir should spare us lots of money and time by declaring it's illegal and possibly asking them to refund all monies paid to them.

[Nefertiti]

Has Aukot published Punguza accounts? Suppose he was funded by a convicted drug dealer? That doesn't invalidate Punguza and all you can do is jail Aukot. You can sue Treasury, AG or Sen Haji - for illegal spend of public funds - but BBI remains legit.

[RV Pundit]

Has Aukot published Punguza accounts? Suppose he was funded by a convicted drug dealer? That doesn't invalidate Punguza and all you can do is jail Aukot. You can sue Treasury, AG or Sen Haji - for illegal spend of public funds - but BBI remains legit.

There is nothing illegal in drug dealers financing popular ammendments to the constitution.This is about public finance.There is no law to guide BBi in selection, operations and all whatever they are doing.If it was a commission of inquiry there is an act of parliament for that.Its not.it not even a popular ammendments to constitution initiative.Its just Uhuru playing Raila for a fool knowing it's illegal ab initio .I won't be surprised if this gesicho Moraa is not uhuru

[RV Pundit]

BBi just an expensive talk shop to appease Raila otherwise there is not even cabinet resolution to form it.There is no executive order.Just a gazette notice.

[Nefertiti]

Exactly. If there is no law on initiative funding how is BBI at fault? The public finance law is about the approval of funds by parliament before release by the exchequer. Individuals can be in violation of the act - same as Aukot for knowingly accepting proceeds of crime - but both BBI and Punguza would be unaffected.

Public Finance Act, Proceeds of Crime Act  - those are similar items.

[Nefertiti]

Yours and Ruto's concern - and constant attacks - shows its importance.

BBi just an expensive talk shop to appease Raila otherwise there is not even cabinet resolution to form it.There is no executive order.Just a gazette notice.

[RV Pundit]

Your are mixing conjecture with facts.Fact is public money is being wasted in something that everyone knows is waste of time and resources.I hear it financed under peace keeping activities vote of the Interior Ministry.Its upon Justice Weldon Korir to end this charade and save public money.Time to appease Raila is surely over

[Nefertiti]

You're obfuscating. Whether BBI is a waste of time, Babu is being played, etc - is immaterial to the Moraa court case in this thread. If both Punguza and BBI have illegal funding - as an example - why is only one illegal? The Proceeds of Crime Act criminalizes such dodgy sources.

[RV Pundit]

What evidence do you have that proceed of crimes are being used in Punguza.Have DCI or NIS or CBK or KRA or EACC flagged Turkana boy finances.Youre just a moron arguing for it sake.They should have kept Mashada for idiots like you.Turkana Aukot has done well to come this far ...at least he seems keen to follow the law.I mean Okoa Kenya, Pesa Mashinani and Ugatuzi despite all backing from governors and top dogs have yet to come this far....But BBI has no parliament or cabinet or executive order backing it nor is it a commission of inquiry.Its being funded clandestinely by the interior ministry and they want their output taken seriously.That won't happen

[Nefertiti]

  In short the answer to the hypothetical question is no, breaking the Proceeds of Crime Act would not invalidate Punguza any more than violation of the Public Finance Act does BBI. The other stories about waste of time, Ugatuzi and whatnot - hiyo ni obfuscation - cause you're selling smoke as usual. In any case you say BBI is clandestinely financed by Interior budget which is out of the auditors' or parliamentary radar. How then do you know they have violated so many laws let alone public finance? Pray, do you even know what is the constitutional offence? The judges will set you straight hivi karibuni.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit kweli. Noone accuses you of honesty. If you don't want censure of your half- baked narratives go to Mashada. Who remembers such dumpsites anyway.

[RV Pundit]

BBI will be forced to become transparent eventually unless Uhuru gets the report and shelves it. We have an AG who should help here and should be one defending BBI.But everyone who ain't as stupid as Robina and Raila this was designed to fail from get go.We will be here hopefully..I said it in early 2018 that if this was serious...it would have had legal backing.This will be worse than say the many commission of inquiries we have had...those had legal backing.Now you're happy if BBI was comparable to Punguza..Punguza are like so many step ahead and it's doomed.... because overhauling Katiba needs a war.Without 2007/2008 war in Kenya it was not happening Very few if any country has ever overhaul their constitution in peace time

[Nefertiti]

You're telling us about the POLITICS - about how BBI will be shelved as the Ndung'u or Arturs report. Because you know it's not illegal - this is just Omtataish nonsense - which the court will toss into the dustbin. Keep your fingers crossed about Uhuru playing Babu. And happily handing over to Ruto. Babu is offering PM... Ruto is offering supreme leader.

Jomo trashed the senate, majimbo and parliamentary. Without war. What it takes is an alignment of interests among two of three centers of power. Gema and Kalenjin changed it in 1969. Gema and Luo changed it in 2010. Gema and Luo have ganged up again. Arguably 1969 was a major overhaul in contrast to 2010. Cause the latter merely purified the 1969 semi-presidential system and re-introduced a watered down majimbo.

[RV Pundit]

The only constitution overhaul in Kenya was in 2010.Changing Naivasha Katiba to Bomas Katiba like Raila is trying is attempting to overhaul the Katiba.

[Nefertiti]

1969 was a TOTAL OVERHAUL. The Lancaster template was a copy of the UK system. Complete with a governor-general appointed by Her Majesty. On Dec 12 1964 - Jamuri Day - Kenya scrapped vestiges of the queendom but PORK was still as accountable as PM, plus bicameral assembly and majimbo. 1969 scrapped all that - into imperial presidential, unicameral, unitary.

1969 - parliamentary federal to presidential unitary. Overhaul.
2010 - presidential unitary to presidential devolution. Small change.

You can google it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Kenya

Contrary to Tanga Tanga propaganda - the Bomas Draft was a thoroughly debated and consensual document. It was parliamentary with a ceremonial president, with 16 majimbo, some MMPR/party list. Yash Ghai, et al had brought folks together culminating into the national conference at Bomas. Ghai did a better job than Nzamba Kitonga and his Aukots. But then Kiraitu and Wako went to Kilifi and soiled it. Kilifi mongrel version was defeated in 2005 referendum.

2010 Naivasha was alot of ukora. PNU and ODM would outvote Babu team - then Abdikadir would lie to media that there was compromise or concensus.

[Nefertiti]

If BBI effect MMPR, parliamentary, federalism it's a slam dunk. At least i will know they were genuine. If they come up with 3tier and/or hybrid they are DOA.

In the meantime here's that Ruto funded then abandoned Punguza on smelling defeat.

https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Punguza-Mizigo-bill-weighs-heavily-on-Aukot-shoulders/3126390-5301494-b045hi/index.html

[RV Pundit]

Parliamentary will not be supported by Mt Kenya which is why BBI is big trap for Raila.Neither will they support big Jimbo or regions which would disadvantage their diaspora in rift valley.The prospect of losing power to Ruto may force them to adopt prime minister...selected by president.