I don't think corruption can stop a leader from delivering.

[Nefertiti]

For every one thriving corrupt country - I can show you 20 failures. The one success is the exception not the sterling example.

We elect leaders to fix real issues. Nobody is elected to go fight corruption. They are elected to provide jobs, economic opportunities, to fix infrastructures and to provide gov services. How that is done is details. Many countries including kenya have figured out how to strive with rampant corruption. China figured out how to thrive with dictatorship.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

When corruption becames negative influence - it shows in the output. I am not saying we should encourage or abet corruption - but we should be wary of leaders like Raila who shout corruption and other ABSTRACT issues - and avoid tangible measurable (so-called SMART) outputs - for example tell us how many kilometers of tarmac you've put. Jubilee claim to be constructing more roads than all gov previous combined - they cannot do that with run-away corruption. They are connecting more people than - all 3 previous gov did. That cannot happen with run-away corruption.

In short the conversation need to change from abstract - hard to pin down issues (impunity, corruption, change,) into tangible outputs -

NASA and Raila avoid such structured conservations - because it their weakness. They should be arguing with Jubilee figures - whether the number of kms under construction are really that many - power connection - dams (Ruto claimed they've build 6,000 pans!!)

If we restrict corruption to things like nepotism, conflict of interest, emoluments etc, then that might not have much of an effect, even though it still would by distorting the market.

What happens in Kenya is crude looting of public funds.  You have funds for a dam and someone moves it into his account.  In what universe does that not have a negative effect?  And this is actually the shit the hustler is defending.   In the middle of "the fight against corruption".

But you are just assuming that the output is the same before and after corruption.  Maybe it's 7% growth instead of 10% growth.  Robbing the country of 3% growth.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

The impact and cost of corruption is ABSOLUTE & EXPONENTIAL. Not abstract. In fact graft can be measured by SMARTER metrics. Ask Uhuru the PORK - his nephew & in-law died at Westgate - slaughtered like dogs - after corrupt bordermen let in al Shaabab - for 30 pieces of silver.

When corruption becames negative influence - it shows in the output. I am not saying we should encourage or abet corruption - but we should be wary of leaders like Raila who shout corruption and other ABSTRACT issues - and avoid tangible measurable (so-called SMART) outputs - for example tell us how many kilometers of tarmac you've put. Jubilee claim to be constructing more roads than all gov previous combined - they cannot do that with run-away corruption. They are connecting more people than - all 3 previous gov did. That cannot happen with run-away corruption.

In short the conversation need to change from abstract - hard to pin down issues (impunity, corruption, change,) into tangible outputs -

NASA and Raila avoid such structured conservations - because it their weakness. They should be arguing with Jubilee figures - whether the number of kms under construction are really that many - power connection - dams (Ruto claimed they've build 6,000 pans!!)

That.  And also stuff like no dam, where there would have been one.  How is that delivering?

[Nefertiti]

The impact and cost of corruption is ABSOLUTE & EXPONENTIAL. Not abstract. In fact graft can be measured by SMARTER metrics. Ask Uhuru the PORK - his nephew & in-law died at Westgate - slaughtered like dogs - after corrupt bordermen let in al Shaabab - for 30 pieces of silver.

When corruption becames negative influence - it shows in the output. I am not saying we should encourage or abet corruption - but we should be wary of leaders like Raila who shout corruption and other ABSTRACT issues - and avoid tangible measurable (so-called SMART) outputs - for example tell us how many kilometers of tarmac you've put. Jubilee claim to be constructing more roads than all gov previous combined - they cannot do that with run-away corruption. They are connecting more people than - all 3 previous gov did. That cannot happen with run-away corruption.

In short the conversation need to change from abstract - hard to pin down issues (impunity, corruption, change,) into tangible outputs -

NASA and Raila avoid such structured conservations - because it their weakness. They should be arguing with Jubilee figures - whether the number of kms under construction are really that many - power connection - dams (Ruto claimed they've build 6,000 pans!!)

That.  And also stuff like no dam, where there would have been one.  How is that delivering?

The drought & starvation in Kenya - is largely caused by corruption. Before the botched dams - the forest went first - either illegal logging or letting in peasants for political expedience. And the guy will "efficiently" fix the problems he created.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit is still shooting pool? I wonder how it's going.. he's drunk with Ruto.

[Pragmatic]

Robina, a new member of this board would think Pundito to be our sage/guru here. That rookie would take Pundito too seriously. What with what he shoots here, at times very knee jerk in which he believes himself to be very smart, genius even..... He enjoys getting under our skin.... it is part of his daily doze alongside his pool and the ruaraka waters; deep down he prays to his gods that his prediction come true. At times it seems he is trying to believe his own endless tales and propaganda like Goebbels in which he seems close to outdo his tin-god from Sugoi, Kamagut in Turbo/Soy.

Now, Ruto has no capacity or parallel intelligence that I heard Pundit talk about here recently. Completely zero and he has been gob-smacked and running on zero intelligence.
The only person in Kenya who had a legendary parallel intelligence and whistleblower capacity (which is now on the wane) was/is Raila Odinga...

Ruto has really been pulling aimless shots all over and will soon will be worn out and a harmless hair-glazing punch will knock him out.

Pundit is still shooting pool? I wonder how it's going.. he's drunk with Ruto.

[Nefertiti]

Pragmatic - you're right chema chajiuza. Self imposed genius and abitor of knowledge is a new invention from Mavoko.

As for Ruto chuma chake ki motoni. He over reached, played his hand too early and can't sustain a protracted war against the system. He is the new Raila - Enemy of the State.

[Kadudu]

 
The truth hurts.

Pundit is still shooting pool? I wonder how it's going.. he's drunk with Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

You sound like Kamami? In any case Rv Pundit has used this handle for more than 15 yrs now - in 3 forums (rcb, nipate.com &.org) -  and has dispensed dispassionate punditry since early 2000s for free. You lesser mortals mutate - because you blurt half-thought falsehood.

Robina, a new member of this board would think Pundito to be our sage/guru here. That rookie would take Pundito too seriously. What with what he shoots here, at times very knee jerk in which he believes himself to be very smart, genius even..... He enjoys getting under our skin.... it is part of his daily doze alongside his pool and the ruaraka waters; deep down he prays to his gods that his prediction come true. At times it seems he is trying to believe his own endless tales and propaganda like Goebbels in which he seems close to outdo his tin-god from Sugoi, Kamagut in Turbo/Soy.

Now, Ruto has no capacity or parallel intelligence that I heard Pundit talk about here recently. Completely zero and he has been gob-smacked and running on zero intelligence.
The only person in Kenya who had a legendary parallel intelligence and whistleblower capacity (which is now on the wane) was/is Raila Odinga...

Ruto has really been pulling aimless shots all over and will soon will be worn out and a harmless hair-glazing punch will knock him out.

Pundit is still shooting pool? I wonder how it's going.. he's drunk with Ruto.

[RV Pundit]

I am not a new invention. I have been online since early 2000s - now well going into 20yrs - using the same SINGLE handle - with my trademark well argued points. If I don't know anything about a subject - I keep quiet. You need to do the same. It's obvious you are new to kenya politics. I told you I spent my teenage years reading newspapers and magazines dating all the way to 60s. My father had a whole room of books and newspapers - at one point Moi's men - after arresting my father for possessing seditious material - came to search our library - and by the time my father was released 3 days later for lack of evidence - my mother had us destroy a whole room of books, magazines and newspapers - so I missed a lot of that.

I have watched Ruto keenly since he overthrew Biwott Moi's Kitchen cabinet in 2001. Ruto is NOT A JOKE. Kicking Biwott out Moi's kitchen cabinet, engineering Uhuru & GM (young turks) - both hopelessly clueless rich spoilt kids - take over of KANU - and basically running the show - while he was merely 30yrs - ass minister - should have told you long ago - that WSR is NOT JOKE.With Biwott gone - Saitoti and whole lots of generations of KANU leaders that depended on Biwott became sitting ducks - and Ruto wasted no time to kick their butts out.

There is no way DR Ruto will screw this up. He has been planning it for many years. He has meticulously crossed all the ts and dots.

Pragmatic - you're right chema chajiuza. Self imposed genius and abitor of knowledge is a new invention from Mavoko.

As for Ruto chuma chake ki motoni. He over reached, played his hand too early and can't sustain a protracted war against the system. He is the new Raila - Enemy of the State.

[Pragmatic]

You sound like Kamami? In any case Rv Pundit has used this handle for more than 15 yrs now - in 3 forums (rcb, nipate.com &.org) -  and has dispensed dispassionate punditry since early 2000s for free. You lesser mortals mutate - because you blurt half-thought falsehood.

Robina, a new member of this board would think Pundito to be our sage/guru here. That rookie would take Pundito too seriously. What with what he shoots here, at times very knee jerk in which he believes himself to be very smart, genius even..... He enjoys getting under our skin.... it is part of his daily doze alongside his pool and the ruaraka waters; deep down he prays to his gods that his prediction come true. At times it seems he is trying to believe his own endless tales and propaganda like Goebbels in which he seems close to outdo his tin-god from Sugoi, Kamagut in Turbo/Soy.

Now, Ruto has no capacity or parallel intelligence that I heard Pundit talk about here recently. Completely zero and he has been gob-smacked and running on zero intelligence.
The only person in Kenya who had a legendary parallel intelligence and whistleblower capacity (which is now on the wane) was/is Raila Odinga...

Ruto has really been pulling aimless shots all over and will soon will be worn out and a harmless hair-glazing punch will knock him out.

Pundit is still shooting pool? I wonder how it's going.. he's drunk with Ruto.

[Nefertiti]

Baadaye. Normally i type away with my chevy on auto-cruise. Iko kitu Palo Alto.

[RV Pundit]

I see you're old - kamami is still a small girl. I made the point to get UON in 91/92 - the day I listened to UON student shouting Moi must go! Moi must go! We hated Moi as a family - thanks to my dad rabid hatred for Moi - I think they were protesting the scrapping of something - weekly allowance or something like that - but they were surely very courageous.I was so inspired I wanted to go to UON and shout "Moi must go".I was fortunate in our first week in UON - about 8yrs later - we had a strike - I was so raring to go! But the fun didn't last a minute - I was in Uhuru highway with some folks - we were throwing stones at cars and having a laugh - as they furiously turned  - and then this car comes - it doesn't stop or turn - we lurched forward menacingly - and just when we were so near it - they throw something that sounded like a bomb to us (teargas cannister) -ripped through the small crowd - I found myself on the ditch - I quickly got up and run into the UON grounds - injured - and I never got near any strikes. Our happiest moment was NARC revolution tearing through Nairobi and seeing KANU got humiliated.As regards what I read - they were mostly nation, standard, kanu times (rarely) - yes weekly review - & tonnes of yellow rags he would buy every time he went to Nairobi - my dad also bought the Times & Economist (he wasn't rich but I cringe every time I have to buy them). My father bought a newspaper every day - something I also did religiously until - 5yrs ago - when everything went online. Occasionally on his trips to Nairobi - he'd bring like 10 rags - both local, international and yellow - that were sold cheaply. While I was interested in reading old newspaper - my brother were busy stealing and selling them. We had some guy coming with donkey to ferry old newspaper - every school break - they'd pay us per kilo - my bros would climb through the ceiling into my dad library - and cart away kilos of old newspaper - to the butchery - where it would be used to wrap meat They'd leave me with magazines - that were glossy and not suitable for meat wrapping. Unlike now - we had serious shortage of news - KBC radio and tv - were just about Moi and music - BBC would air for 30mins - and it was mostly about DRC Congo fights or Rwanda or Iraq.

[vooke]

Any corrupt nation would experience short term highs. That's what Chavez did to Venezuela before it backfired shortly after he exited.

Here in Kenya the biggest output of corruption is external borrowing whose impact may be felt proper years after the thieves are out of office.

[Kadudu]

Not may be, will be.
We have taken loans for projects which are over priced. The loans have to be paid back even if the projects are successfully completed or not.

Any corrupt nation would experience short term highs. That's what Chavez did to Venezuela before it backfired shortly after he exited.

Here in Kenya the biggest output of corruption is external borrowing whose impact may be felt proper years after the thieves are out of office.

[Nefertiti]

Don't interrupt people's wet dreams - please let folks be happy - & learn to lie sometimes. Anything you can say about Jubilee & UhuRuto - China model, Chile, Indonesia - are hare-brained ideas - pie in the sky fantasy. That's before you factor the inefficiency, incompetence & the looting extravaganza. Kenya mtalia kichaka.

Not may be, will be.
We have taken loans for projects which are over priced. The loans have to be paid back even if the projects are successfully completed or not.

Any corrupt nation would experience short term highs. That's what Chavez did to Venezuela before it backfired shortly after he exited.

Here in Kenya the biggest output of corruption is external borrowing whose impact may be felt proper years after the thieves are out of office.

[Nefertiti]

Bw RV Pundit, FRS - when we say you are not a genius we mean what we say. Suppose we had an economic boom? - as is likely to happen with the imminent demographic dividend; - We would still face and battle cancer, AIDS and other scourges. Ergo, pointing out prosperity as vindication of your permissiveness for sleaze is disingenuous and a fallacy. Again do I think you're lying? no. You're simply wrong to conflate these items - like you are about the economy subject and many others we have debated here. You cannot be dispassionate and wear blinkers at the same time.

[RV Pundit]

When did I ever claim to be a genius? This your normal strawman arguments. My understanding of corruption - is that it eventually goes away - if the economy grows. So  I am not worried about it. I'd be worried if the economy was tanking. Corruption is down to risk-reward matrix - and when people don't have economic opportunities to live a honest dignified life - they will rob, steal,plifer, corrupt and game the system - they have nothing to lose.

Bw RV Pundit, FRS - when we say you are not a genius we mean what we say. Suppose we had an economic boom? - as is likely to happen with the imminent demographic dividend; - We would still face and battle cancer, AIDS and other scourges. Ergo, pointing out prosperity as vindication of your permissiveness for sleaze is disingenuous and a fallacy. Again do I think you're lying? no. You're simply wrong to conflate these items - like you are about the economy subject and many others we have debated here. You cannot be dispassionate and wear blinkers at the same time.

[RV Pundit]

Borrowing as increased - so have gov revenues to repay them. Venezuela problem is down to depending on one commodity - OIl -

Any corrupt nation would experience short term highs. That's what Chavez did to Venezuela before it backfired shortly after he exited.

Here in Kenya the biggest output of corruption is external borrowing whose impact may be felt proper years after the thieves are out of office.

[Nefertiti]

No corruption never "goes away". Check Russia - high upper middle economy but still corrupt. You can see the effects- Russia would be a big power yet is held back by insituionalised graft. Even after shedding the communism, Russia is an outstanding sampler of the effects of corruption.

China - again corruption did not "go away". It was brutally slayed first and then posterity followed.